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Author Topic: Aerospace Pilots  (Read 5735 times)

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Ice Hellion

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Aerospace Pilots
« on: April 08, 2011, 03:51:36 PM »

How long does it take for someone to graduate as an Aerospace Pilot?
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Ice Hellion

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Re: Aerospace Pilots
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2011, 07:30:02 AM »

Do we know the rate of attrition for Aerospace forces in a major conflict like the Amaris' Coup?
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

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Re: Aerospace Pilots
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2011, 09:33:52 AM »

Do we know the rate of attrition for Aerospace forces in a major conflict like the Amaris' Coup?

Given the game mechanics, I'd say unbelievably high.
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Aerospace Pilots
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2011, 04:53:48 PM »

Do we know the rate of attrition for Aerospace forces in a major conflict like the Amaris' Coup?

Given the game mechanics, I'd say unbelievably high.

Which is not an answer that helps me for my project.  ???
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Blacknova

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Re: Aerospace Pilots
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2011, 04:59:30 PM »

That sort of information has never really exisited.  Probably look to attrition rates for something like WWII for something comparable.
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Aerospace Pilots
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2011, 05:04:23 PM »

That's what I thought.
And for the number of years needed to graduate?
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Blacknova

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Re: Aerospace Pilots
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2011, 06:15:35 PM »

Likely similar to today, considering the ASF's complexity and need to master two types of flying.
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Dread Moores

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Re: Aerospace Pilots
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2011, 06:21:56 PM »

Time to graduate - 3 years minimum through a military academy, according to CBT: RPG (couldn't find years needed in AToW)

Mortality rate - Higher than WWII, thought that's just a guess. Search and Rescue in space is likely to be often fruitless, and lawn dart checks mean very bad things for pilots. Outside of PBIs in heavy combat areas, I imagine that aerospace pilots have the highest mortality rate and the biggest equipment budget for replacements. This branch of service has to be truly brutal.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2011, 06:22:45 PM by Dread Moores »
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Re: Aerospace Pilots
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2011, 06:27:19 PM »

Time to graduate - 3 years minimum through a military academy, according to CBT: RPG (couldn't find years needed in AToW)

Mortality rate - Higher than WWII, thought that's just a guess. Search and Rescue in space is likely to be often fruitless, and lawn dart checks mean very bad things for pilots. Outside of PBIs in heavy combat areas, I imagine that aerospace pilots have the highest mortality rate and the biggest equipment budget for replacements. This branch of service has to be truly brutal.

Probably why they were the media darlings of their day until the invention of the BattleMech. (Just like the Fighter Pilots of yester year.)
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Re: Aerospace Pilots
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2011, 08:05:32 PM »

IDK, maybe space rescue isn't great, but atmosphere ejection should be fine.  Current ejection systems are pretty decent.  I can imagine that heavily life supported cockpits should be even better.  However, I would say 50% is a fair number...those that lose, probably die.
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Knightmare

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Re: Aerospace Pilots
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2011, 08:28:34 PM »

Yea, plowing into the ground at supersonic speeds is probably bad for your health and life expectancy.
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Dread Moores

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Re: Aerospace Pilots
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2011, 08:33:27 PM »

Space rescue isn't great, it's downright awful. Ejection is out, unless the seats are fitted with some pretty extensive manually controlled thrusters or vectoring nozzles. That means the fighter needs to be intact enough for you to bail (not great), and then in some way halt your momentum. And in aero combat, that momentum can be pretty hefty in space. Then, SAR craft need to pick out your beacon from amidst everything else going. I don't even want to think about the often used sci-fi idea of SAR being done during combat. The level of tech needed for reliable space based SAR exists in BT, but not in the numbers or even in the type of craft needed. Small craft in canon material are a black hole of gaping omissions in the TO&E needed for strong combined black water combat ops.

Atmospheric ejection should definitely be fine. But there's a whole lot of NOE and low-altitude flying going on in Battletech. Ground combat, that's where the action is, so that's where the fighters are. And low-altitude and ejection equals crimson mist way more often than pilots will like to consider. Also (and I'm only judging from my own experiences with aerospace combat, which is honestly limited), aerofighters tend to die ugly deaths. There's rarely ever salvage, and almost never in atmospheric combat (the case could be made for low velocity crash landings allowing for some degree of salvage). And the aero battles I've dealt with in atmosphere have typically ended with easily critted/heavily damaged craft flying away, getting lawn darted, or trouncing the ground forces. There's very little in between from my experiences.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2011, 08:34:17 PM by Dread Moores »
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Knightmare

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Re: Aerospace Pilots
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2011, 08:44:41 PM »

And the aero battles I've dealt with in atmosphere have typically ended with easily critted/heavily damaged craft flying away, getting lawn darted, or trouncing the ground forces. There's very little in between from my experiences.

I LOL'd this part. My fiance thinks I should stop drinking. Meh. A Liverpool win and Maps/Books posted?! Never.

Either way, from a fictional perspective (based on what I've read in the novels and sourcebooks) most of what you've described is fairly accurate. High altitude bail outs are likely to have the best survival and recovery success rates compared to a Vacuum or Low-Alt dump for the aforementioned reasons.

I mean, ASFs are fast moving objects that suffer the same kinetic and explosive punishment as BattleMechs, (only worse thanks to relative velocities) so easier crit damage and a more spectacular death is almost a give in. Survivability should reflect that.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2011, 08:45:09 PM by Knightmare »
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Re: Aerospace Pilots
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2011, 03:33:14 AM »

2 years for aToW. 1 year basic, 1 year advanced.  Though I suspect you'll have a green pilot.  Still slowly assimilating that book.

Personally I would expect the mortality rate to be well below WWII rates.  The chance of death through direct exposure to lead poisoning is considerably lower, as well as other improved methods of survival.

Space:  SAR is your only hope.  Fortunately if you have a decent beacon (Or anything that radiates energy if we go for true "You can't hide in space" physics) and someone was watching your vector when you went Dutchman there is a decent chance they can find you, if they can start after you quickly. Any relative velocity you had when you started can pretty much be ignored by a small craft's constant acceleration.

Atmosphere: You're fine, unless you somehow manage to to eject while upside down and very close to the ground.  Even then if someone was thoughtful enough to provide two ejection vectors to pick from under computer control, you could still get away with ejecting.  Any other situation and surviving the ejection is fairly easy.  Having the reaction time needed to decide to eject is the real issue.  Not being captured by the enemy is also important.  Admittedly rules in this department are a bit light, but should be easy to kitbash from the Mech rules.

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drakensis

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Re: Aerospace Pilots
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2011, 03:50:57 PM »

My experience of aerotech isn't vast but I have played a few games and I can only recall one instance of a fighter being logged as unsalvagable - due to a fuel explosion, IIRC.

The vast majority of kills seem to involve loss of structrual integrity which would suggest that most of the fighter is still present. It doesn't necessarily mean that pilots have good odds of getting picked up after ejecting but surviving to eject may be even more common than mechwarriors managing to bale out.
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