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Author Topic: Star Trek-Federation Starship Conversion-Proof of Concept  (Read 2750 times)

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Cryhavok101

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Star Trek-Federation Starship Conversion-Proof of Concept
« on: July 22, 2017, 02:06:57 PM »

As I have converted ships and vehicles from other universes, Star Trek had been standing out as one that I probably would never do, because their ships are so different from BattleTech's. Recently I discovered how I would manage it, then put it together. I used the Refit Constitution Class as inspiration. The Key was in building it as an amalgamation of multiple units working together. In several episodes (TOS: "The Apple" and TOS: "The Savage Curtain") separation events were discussed in which the Nacelles of the ship would disengage from the rest of the ship. In addition technical drawings of the Constitution class include a "separation line, between the saucer section and the neck attaching it to the secondary hull. I used this as a guide to build the ship in four distinct pieces: Primary Hull/Saucer Section, Secondary Hull/Engineering Section, and Two Nacelles.

Each of these sections has a distinct purpose. The Saucer Section is the primary living area and contains most of the housing and recreation on the amalgamation. It also serves as the primary command and control area, and contains the majority of the ship's firepower. It can even house the crew of both other ships, and can serve as an escape vehicle, evacuating people from the rest of the amalgamation.

Federation-Constitution Class-Primary Hull "Saucer Section"

Code: [Select]
Class/Model/Name: Constitution-Primary Hull "Saucer Section"
Tech: Clan
Vessel Type: Military Spheroid Dropship

Mass: 100,000 tons
Safe Thrust: 7
Maximum Thrust: 11
Armor Type: Ferro-Aluminum
Armament:         
48 SCL-3s
100 LAMS

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name: Constitution-Primary Hull "Saucer Section"
Mass: 100,000 tons

Equipment: Mass
Drive 42,700.00
Control: 750.00
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 3
      Maximum Thrust: 5
Structural Integrity: 25 5,000.00
Total Heat Sinks:    1,718 (3,436) Double 1,180.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 3,425.16
Cargo and Consumables: 5,591.84
Armor Type: Ferro-Aluminum (756 total armor pts) 90.00
                           Standard Scale Armor Pts
   Fore:                                 192
   Right:                                192
   Left:                                 192
   Aft:                                  192

Crew and Passengers:
13 Officers-1st Class Quarters 130.00
11 Crew-1st Class Quarters 110.00
54 Gunners/Other-1st Class Quarters 540.00
300 1st Class Passenger Quarters 3,000.00


Weapons and Equipment Loc SRV MRV LRV ERV Heat Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8 Subcapital Laser 3 Nose 24-C 24-C -- -- 256 2,000.00
8 Subcapital Laser 3 Nose 24-C 24-C -- -- 256 2,000.00
20 LAMS Nose 60-PDS -- -- -- 100 20.00
8 Subcapital Laser 3 FR 24-C 24-C -- -- 256 2,000.00
20 LAMS FR 60-PDS -- -- -- 100 20.00
8 Subcapital Laser 3 FL 24-C 24-C -- -- 256 2,000.00
20 LAMS FL 60-PDS -- -- -- 100 20.00
8 Subcapital Laser 3 AR 24-C 24-C -- -- 256 2,000.00
20 LAMS AR 60-PDS -- -- -- 100 20.00
8 Subcapital Laser 3 AL 24-C 24-C -- -- 256 2,000.00
20 LAMS AL 60-PDS -- -- -- 100 20.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Other Equipment
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval Comm Scanner Suite 100.00
Communications Equipment (15 tons) 12.00
Naval C3 1,000.00
Naval Tug Adapter 10,100.00
Booby Trap 10,000.00
4 Capital Deflector Shields (From "Welcome to the Nebula California") 4,000.00


I designed the Saucer Section as a Spheroid DropShip. It doesn't contain independent warp capability, so a DropShip was appropriate. It has weapons that fire to the sides, making the Spheroid hull design the better choice over Aerodyne. It uses it's Naval Tug Adapter to attach to the Engineering Hull's Docking Collar in the appropriate location. This allows the DropShip to engage it's own engines and move the amalgamation itself. This is fairly slow, and I consider it an analogue for the Thrusters on a Federation ship. It's Naval C3 system is connected to it's mates in the other parts of the amalgamation, allowing free communication between them, and full ability to function together electronically. Federation ships also include self destruct devices, represented here by the Booby Trap included in the Design. The Deflector Shields are not canon equipment, and if they are not available in your game, you can simply roll that tonnage into cargo instead. LAMS was included because Federation Ships can take a massive pounding from torpedoes on their shield and be fine, so it also has enough excess heat sinks for several LAMS activations. Phasers are able to be used in the universe on multiple settings, including a wide beam setting able to bracket an enemy and strike them even with heavily damaged sensors. For this reason each Phaser Emitter is represented by a quartet of SCL-3s, which can be mounted to the dropship, and I feel best represents the versatility of the Federation's phasers.

The Nacelles in Star Trek are a vital part of the FTL system they use. But beyond that, they only really collect matter for the replicators. They don't really move under their own power. They also need to be shut down before crew works aboard them.

Federation-Constitution Class-Nacell

Code: [Select]
Class/Model/Name: Constitution-Nacell
Tech: Clan

Mass: 200,000
K-F Drive System: None
Power Plant: Station-Keeping Drive
Safe Thrust: 0.1
Maximum Thrust: 0.2
Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-Carbide
Armament:
None
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name: Constitution-Nacell
Mass: 200,000

Equipment: Mass
Drive: 2,400.00
Thrust
Safe: 0.1
Maximum: 0.2
Controls: 200.00
Structural Integrity: 1 2,000.00
Total Heat Sinks: 114(228) Double 0.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 15000 points 3,060.00
Fire Control Computers: 0.00
Armor: 946 pts Lamellor Ferro-Carbide 727.00
Fore: 158
Fore-Left/Right: 159/159
Aft-Left/Right: 159/159
Aft: 158

Cargo:
Bay 1: Cargo (43,328 tons) 43,328.00
Doors (2) 0.00

Docking Collars: 2 2,000.00

Crew And Passengers:
9 Officers in Caspar II Drone Systems Quarters 45.00
38 Crew in Caspar II Drone Systems Quarters 190.00
8 Gunners and Others in Caspar II Drone Systems Quarters 40.00
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Weapons
None
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Equipment Mass
Energy Storage Battery 100,000.00
Communication Equipment 10.00
SDS Self Destruct System 10,000.00
Robotic Caspar II DCS Advanced 32,000.00
4 Capital Deflector Shields (From "Welcome to the Nebula California") 4,000.00
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Built as a space station. This is so that it not only doesn't move much under it's own power, but also doesn't disrupt K-F Jumps with it's own drives. It is fully automated, so it can operate without any living thing aboard. It aids in FTL procedures by carrying an energy batter, which can charge the amalgamation's K-F drive without needing to deploy a Jump Sail, It includes a Self Destruct system and shields, just like the Saucer Section does. Rather than magically collecting material from deep space which is then used to magically create things out of thin air, the other section of the Nacelles is cargo, covering the same functions. The amalgamation's two Nacelles carry over One Hundred Thousand tons of cargo between them, more than enough for the ship's needs. The Two Docking Hardpoints are what it uses to connect to the appropriate sections of the Engineering Section.

The Nacelles are 200,000 tons. That is twice what can normally be jumped, attached to a docking hardpoint. So while the design is legal, I am using it in a less than legal way. My explanation for it is that I am having it connect to multiple hardpoints, enough to cover it's full tonnage. Normally, a random space station, connecting to a random Jump/Warship would probably not match up two docking hardpoints between them. The shapes are likely to be too different. So canon space stations that get to big would have trouble being transported in one piece. These, on the other hand, are purpose built for these specific Nacelles to connect to. It is the sort of thing I would allow as a GM, so I am willing to bend the rules for this. But to be completely clear, this use I am putting it to, is against the rules.

The Engineering Section houses tons of sensitive equipment, the core of the ship's FTL systems, a hangar bay, more firepower and otehr such important things. It is also the connection point between all of the sections of the amalgamation.

Federation-Constitution-Secondary Hull "Engineering Section"

Code: [Select]
Class/Model/Name: Constitution-Secondary Hull "Engineering Section"
Tech: Clan

Mass: 420,000
K-F Drive System: Compact with L-F Battery
Power Plant: Maneuvering Drive
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-Carbide
Armament:
5 Capital Launcher AR-10
28 Subcapital Laser 3
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name: Constitution-Secondary Hull "Engineering Section"
Mass: 420,000

Equipment: Mass
Drive: 75,600.00
Thrust
Safe: 3
Maximum: 5
Controls: 1,050.00
K-F Hyperdrive: Compact with L-F Battery (10 Integrity) 194,250.00
Jump Sail: (4 Integrity) 51.00
Structural Integrity: 25 10,500.00
Total Heat Sinks: 698(1396) Double 265.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 7500 points 3,060.00
Fire Control Computers: 0.00
Armor: 231 pts Lamellor Ferro-Carbide 210.00
Fore: 42
Fore-Left/Right: 42/42
Aft-Left/Right: 41/41
Aft: 41

Cargo:
Bay 1: Reinforced Unpreassurized Repair Bay (100,000) 10,000.00
Docking Collar (1) 1,000.00
Doors (1) 0.00
Bay 2: Reinforced Unpreassurized Repair Bay (200,000) 20,000.00
Docking Collar (2) 2,000.00
Doors (2) 0.00
Bay 3: Reinforced Unpreassurized Repair Bay (200,000) 20,000.00
Docking Collar (2) 2,000.00
Doors (2) 0.00
Bay 4: Small Craft Bays (10) 2,000.00
Cargo (708 tons) 208.00
Doors (1) 0.00

Crew And Passengers:
30 Officers in 1st Class Quarters 300.00
95 Crew in 2nd Class Quarters 665.00
62 Gunners and Others in 2nd Class Quarters 434.00
50 Bay Personnel 0.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
# Weapons Loc Heat Damage Range Mass
4 AR-10 Launchers Nose Extreme-C 1,000.00
4 Subcapital Laser 3s R/LBS 128 120 (12-C) Medium-C 2,000.00
4 Subcapital Laser 3s R/LBS 128 120 (12-C) Medium-C 2,000.00
4 Subcapital Laser 3s R/LBS 128 120 (12-C) Medium-C 2,000.00
4 Subcapital Laser 3s Aft 128 120 (12-C) Medium-C 1,000.00
1 AR-10 Launcher Aft Extreme-C 250.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ammo Rounds Mass
Capital Launcher Barracuda Ammo 50 1,500.00
Capital Launcher White Shark Ammo 40 1,600.00
Capital Launcher Killer Whale Ammo 30 1,500.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Equipment Mass
Large NCSS 500.00
Robotic Caspar II DTAC System 12,300.00
Communication Equipment (15 tons) 10.00
Booby Trap 40,000.00
Naval C3 4,000.00
4 Capital Deflector Shields (From "Welcome to the Nebula California") 4,000.00


Starting at the top, the Engineering section can push the amalgamation faster than the Saucer Section, so that is what this analogue's "Impulse Drives" are. The Reinforced Unpressurized Repair Bays are the only way to attach things to this ship so that it can move while keeping them attached. So those are the docking points for the Saucer Section and both Nacelles.A Hangar bay for 10 small craft is in the rear of the ship. It continues to have the same self destruct and shield systems as the rest of the amalgamation. It also includes a DTAC computer and Naval C3 connecting tot he saucer, and controlling the Nacelles from this section. Even greater sensor systems are there thanks to the Large NCSS. Interesting enough the ship actually has a lot of redundancies in it's sensors, since it is actually four ships it gets four chances to detect anything within range.

It further increases the amalgamation's firepower with a quartet of AR-10 launchers standing in for the Photon Torpedo Launchers the Federation uses in the front of the ship. The broadsides of Phaser Banks are included as well, as is the phasers and torpedo covering the rear of the ship. It has a complement of 140 torpedoes of various types to fire as needed.

While I wasn't able to match the full firepower of star trek weapons, in terms of fitting in with the BattleTech universe I am satisfied with how it turned out. Feel free to comment, suggest, criticize or whatever else. I don't plan on doing any other federation ships, I just did this one as a proof of concept to  show how I would go about it.
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Dragon Cat

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Re: Star Trek-Federation Starship Conversion-Proof of Concept
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2017, 10:39:31 PM »

I like it though I think I'd probably do it as a single WarShip maybe 500,000 to 750,000 size for constitution
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GiovanniBlasini

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Re: Star Trek-Federation Starship Conversion-Proof of Concept
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2017, 03:47:03 PM »

To quote Baymax, "I have some concerns."  :o ;D

Personally, I'd probably have treated the nacelles as part of the jump drive, and maybe thrown in a "jump pigeon" and "detachable jump sail" quirks, while not actually adding a sail for charging the drive.

My big concern, though, is the primary hull/saucer section.  The naval tug adapter is an excellent idea to allow the whole contraption to move together, given the rules you otherwise see for moving with ships docked to your docking hardpoints.  That said, I'm not sure it's a good mechanism for the saucer separation on the old Constitution class ships, which I always got the impression needed a spacedock to put back together again.

Along with that, building the primary hull as a DropShip opens up another concern: your structural integrity is in standard scale, along with your armor.  This ends up creating a serious imbalance as constructed, when you look at how each section takes damage:

Secondary/Engineering Hull:  41-42 capital points/side, 25 points of capital SI.  Punching through a single location and killing it outright would take, then, at least 91 capital damage in one spot (41 armor + 25*2 SI).

Warp Nacelle: 158-159 capital armor/side, 1 capital SI.  As above, then, you're looking at around 160 points to a single location to kill one of the nacelles outright.

Primary Hull:  192 standard armor/side, 25 standard SI.  Because it's standard scale, it suffers greatly to capital/subcapital weapons, and you're looking at needing only 24-25 capital points, depending on how you round off, to outright destroy your primary hull.  A single NAC/25 hit will pretty much kill your primary hull, where all your people are, dead.

Think I'm going to have to agree with Takiro, that building it as a single ship is probably your safest bet.  The other alternative would be to break out the ancient MFNA Monitor rules, though that way leads to madness, or treat it as a KF-transportable station, counting on overpenetration rules to keep the ship alive after separation, but that's got its own flaws, too.
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Cryhavok101

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Re: Star Trek-Federation Starship Conversion-Proof of Concept
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2017, 01:30:20 AM »

Sorry it took so long to get back to you guys. Thanks for the comments and feedback.

Personally, I'd probably have treated the nacelles as part of the jump drive, and maybe thrown in a "jump pigeon" and "detachable jump sail" quirks, while not actually adding a sail for charging the drive.

I thought about that, but the TOS Enterprise's nacelles were actually detachable, and that gave me an excuse to build it in a way that fit both battletech's "one long tube per ship" design philosophy and star trek's weird federation design philosophy. I certainly could have done it all as one ship, but the differences in the ship's design just didn't sit right with me doing that way. Still, if you want to actually go through the trouble of designing it as one ship, you are welcome to post it here. I don't regard it as competition, but as giving everyone more options.

My big concern, though, is the primary hull/saucer section.  The naval tug adapter is an excellent idea to allow the whole contraption to move together, given the rules you otherwise see for moving with ships docked to your docking hardpoints.  That said, I'm not sure it's a good mechanism for the saucer separation on the old Constitution class ships, which I always got the impression needed a spacedock to put back together again.


Yes, as far as I know that is the way they worked in the lore. This is as close as I was willing to get to it. I had considered an extra section between engineering hull and the saucer section, which would autodestruct to enact the separation, but I though that would be stretching K-F tech too much through a chain lol.


This isn't precisely any one federation ship, even though it most strongly resembles the TOS Constitution class. Seeing as how the federation eventually had the ability to dock and undock the saucer section, I feel comfortable with it as is... However, you could add a quirk to the ship that causes the destruction of the docking hardpoint during the separation event, unless it is done in very controlled circumstances taking hours to enact... IE not in battle. Or you could have a "primitive version of the ship with docking hardpoints that break when they separate, and a non-primitive that doesn't, representing the different era's of federation tech. There are a lot of ways you can do with it.

Along with that, building the primary hull as a DropShip opens up another concern: your structural integrity is in standard scale, along with your armor.  This ends up creating a serious imbalance as constructed, when you look at how each section takes damage:

Secondary/Engineering Hull:  41-42 capital points/side, 25 points of capital SI.  Punching through a single location and killing it outright would take, then, at least 91 capital damage in one spot (41 armor + 25*2 SI).

Warp Nacelle: 158-159 capital armor/side, 1 capital SI.  As above, then, you're looking at around 160 points to a single location to kill one of the nacelles outright.

Primary Hull:  192 standard armor/side, 25 standard SI.  Because it's standard scale, it suffers greatly to capital/subcapital weapons, and you're looking at needing only 24-25 capital points, depending on how you round off, to outright destroy your primary hull.  A single NAC/25 hit will pretty much kill your primary hull, where all your people are, dead.

Think I'm going to have to agree with Takiro, that building it as a single ship is probably your safest bet.  The other alternative would be to break out the ancient MFNA Monitor rules, though that way leads to madness, or treat it as a KF-transportable station, counting on overpenetration rules to keep the ship alive after separation, but that's got its own flaws, too.

They call it a primary hull, but if you look into how it is used, the saucer separation is done to get the ship's civilian population out of the way, while the engineering hull actually fights  off the enemy. Even though silly federation engineers put it at they front of the ship, in a fight threatening enough to need a separation event, the primary hull in lore, and in this design, would be running, not holding the line. That is standard doctrine anyway. The time the enterprise used the saucer and engineering hull in a concerted attack on a borg cube was not how they are used standard, nor is the regular saucer separating done in STO the standard operating procedure in the lore.

Also, if you account for the deflector shields on it, taken from the nebula California book, it has 800 points of capital scale damage soaking they have to get through before they can even start damaging the armor DropShip's standard scale armor or SI... and that stuff regenerates at a rate of 20 points per turn. To put that in perspective, if a McKenna's full broadside all hit the saucer section, the hull armor still wouldn't even be scratched. Each of the Nacelles and the Engineering section have that same protection as well. It may not be able to toss out return fire at the same volume as a McKenna, but it's defenses are better than most anything short of a Leviathan 2 or 3 (out of the cannon stuff).

Catch it with the shields offline, and yes, it will be just as fragile as an un-shielded star trek ship normally is, especially in the saucer section that almost always has holes being blown in it on numerous occasions.

I considered, briefly, using monitor rules for it, but wanted it to be as close to "Legal" as I could get. Using a monitor for the saucer would probably better simulate the saucer's performance in an atmosphere (IE it crashes every time we've seen it enter atmo that I know of lol).
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