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Author Topic: Jumpship Numbers  (Read 5067 times)

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Takiro

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Jumpship Numbers
« on: January 14, 2012, 10:32:19 PM »
Hey guys just throwing around more numbers today and one group of them is from the old Succession War game (FASA1612). I know its a flawed system but it got me thinking about the number of jumpships during the Succession War. Gonna give you the pure numbers from the game below and I'd love to hear your comments.

Each House (2785)
1 5-unit Jumpship
2 3-unit Jumpship
3 2-unit Jumpship
4 1-unit Jumpship
10 Jumpships (21 units)

Liao 3025         
1 3-unit Jumpship   
1 2-unit Jumpship
1 1-unit Jumpship
3 ships (6 units)

Marik 3025
1 3-unit Jumpship   
3 2-unit Jumpship   
2 1-unit Jumpship
6 ships (11 units)

Steiner 3025         
1 5-unit Jumpship   
1 3-unit Jumpship   
2 2-unit Jumpship   
4 ships (12 units)

Kurita 3025
1 3-unit Jumpship   
3 2-unit Jumpship
2 1-unit Jumpship
6 ships (11 units)

Davion 3025
1 5-unit Jumpship
2 3-unit Jumpship
2 2-unit Jumpship
1 1-unit Jumpship
6 ships (16 units)

I don't even know if I agree with all that but it is a little food for thought. The 2785 numbers which are higher than the 3025 ones seem to be "right". I can see the Capellans being reduced so badly they have the smallest jumpship fleet by 3025 but do the other Houses "feel right" to you? I'm pretty sure I've seen other takes on this game having Marik with the largest jumpship fleet which might make sense given their merchantile practices. Davion does have big territories which could help "hide" jumpships during the Succession Wars but Kurita specifically targeted them during the 1st War. Would they really have the largest?

I was also thinking post 3025 (after the 4th Succession War) that recovered technologies and higher learning help halt jumpship "atrophy". Greater technical knowledge might help maintenance of functioning craft, restore some derelicts, and increase manufacturing numbers. This would likely result in the first bump in Jumpship numbers since 2785.
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Jumpship Numbers
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2012, 03:34:30 AM »
It seems quite low.

I checked Sarna.net and here is what I found

Quote
As of 3055, approximately 3,000 JumpShips operate in the Inner Sphere according to older canonical sources[18] (up from some 2,000 in 3025[19]). However, this has been dismissed in recent publications[20] as being inadequate to meet the observed shipping of bulk goods in the Inner Sphere, where there are prolific references to planets with populations of billions feeding neighboring worlds, exporting petroleum products[21] and shipping bulk materials like iron ores. These are materials consumed in gigaton quantities on any developed planet with a population in the billions, and obviously cannot be met (for many planets) by the small cargo holds of common freighter DropShips like the Mule and the limited capacity of the Invader and Merchant JumpShips. The actual number of JumpShips is presumably closer to 30,000.


18 ↑ Mercenary's Handbook 3055, p. 23
19 ↑ DropShips and JumpShips
20 ↑ Strategic Operations, p. 251
21 ↑ House Davion Handbook, p. 96
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The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Takiro

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Re: Jumpship Numbers
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2012, 08:11:04 AM »
Very interesting stuff Ice thank you.
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CJvR

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Re: Jumpship Numbers
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2012, 09:53:57 AM »
Well much of the problem is the lack of bulk cargo haulers, instead of carrying around tiny DS as standard they could make the Mammoth and Behemoth as well as a few other large haulers much more common instead that would reduce the need to inflate the JS numbers by a magnitude or two!

A merchant with a pair of Buccaneers is a rounding error, with a pair of Behemoths it would at least be noticable.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2012, 10:03:09 AM by CJvR »
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Takiro

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Re: Jumpship Numbers
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2012, 10:21:36 AM »
Well what about the Drost and Jumbo class Dropships introduced in Historical: Reunification War? They are larger bulk haulers than the Buccaneer but even with that the old Jumpship numbers given in Dropships and Jumpships seem wildly out of whack.
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CJvR

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Re: Jumpship Numbers
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2012, 11:57:01 AM »
Havn't seen them.

But any addition of large DSs reduces the need for JS numbers. Also JS shortages have never been a serious consideration until the houses blew their collective fuses and destroyed almost all of them.
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lrose

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Re: Jumpship Numbers
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2012, 02:28:24 PM »
Keep in mind in the pre-SL period there were individuals who had thousands of jumpships- Emile Liao had a merchant marine in excess of 1000 ships (HLSB p. 17)
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Blacknova

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Re: Jumpship Numbers
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2012, 04:29:30 PM »
A simple way I looked at it was to multiply the number of worlds in a state by the number of JS lines in the state.  Each realm then had its own total divided by the total of all the states and then multiplied by 30 000.

State   Lines   Worlds      Factor      % of Total   Number
LC   5   424      2120      27%      8113
DC   5   408      2040      26%      7807
FS   4   511      2044      26%      7822
CC   3   210      630      8%      2411
FW   3   335      1005      13%      3846

Total   20   1888      7839      100%      30000

However, this does leave the FWL out in the cold...
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SSJGohan3972

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Re: Jumpship Numbers
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2012, 07:04:20 PM »
Adjust it to use number of systems instead of worlds (really 2000+ worlds for the big three, are there that many multi-world systems?) and it would be a lot better for the FWL and more balanced IMO.

Edit, I misinterpreted your table....
« Last Edit: January 15, 2012, 10:03:29 PM by SSJGohan3972 »
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Blacknova

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Re: Jumpship Numbers
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2012, 07:33:04 PM »
Alternativly, a modifier (used to multiply the lines v worlds result) based on a realms proclivity to trade could also work.  LC and FW with higher mods.
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Jumpship Numbers
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2012, 04:18:24 PM »
Quote from: Blacknova on January 15, 2012, 04:29:30 PM
A simple way I looked at it was to multiply the number of worlds in a state by the number of JS lines in the state.  Each realm then had its own total divided by the total of all the states and then multiplied by 30 000.

You lost me.
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Blacknova

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Re: Jumpship Numbers
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2012, 04:45:42 PM »
Worlds x Lines = No.

Add all five No. together for a total.

Divide each states No. by the Total for a %.

Multiply 30000 by the %
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Jumpship Numbers
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2012, 01:52:37 PM »
But where did you get these figures?
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

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Re: Jumpship Numbers
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2012, 03:29:23 PM »
Assuming for a second the Sarna.net numbers are closer to an actual figure, then based on the fiction we could infer that the vast majority of serviceable ships aren't owned by a Successor State.

Gosh, I wonder what the figures were prior to the First Succession War...

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Blacknova

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Re: Jumpship Numbers
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2012, 04:32:46 PM »
Quote from: Ice Hellion on January 17, 2012, 01:52:37 PM
But where did you get these figures?

Worlds from a count of 3025 systems, probably off by 1/2 doz either way

Shiplines from Objective Raids

30 000 JumpShips, I am not sure if this is a cannon refernce, but I do recall it from somewhere other than this thread.
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