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Author Topic: Nike-II CLASS GUNBOAT (SD)  (Read 5434 times)

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CJvR

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Nike-II CLASS GUNBOAT (SD)
« on: March 02, 2017, 06:13:32 PM »

Nike-II Class gunboat

Overview:
The Nike-II class is often called the Terran Okha. The development of the Nike started in the latter half of the First Succession War when the TRN started to encounter the Okha and Ryerson gunboats in large numbers. While the Ryerson was far more numerous it was the Okha which concerned the TRN Admiralty the most. Should the Combine manage to produce it in large numbers it would be a serious threat to the Terran dominance in gunboat warfare. The answer to the Okha was to be the Nike, but things don’t always turn out as expected.
During the development phase of the Nike an opportunity presented itself to enter into a joint venture with the Federated Suns who were likewise looking for a suitable response to the Okha. The end product of this international cooperation was the Standard program which was ultimately selected over the Nike as the new multipurpose gunboat of the Republic. That might have been the end for the Nike except for the Terran Civil War, a fierce internal conflagration which erupted just as the flames of the First Succession War faded. One of the victims of the civil strife was the docks making the Terran spaceframes for the Standards. This facility was destroyed in the crossfire between Loyalist and Republicans and the plant manufacturing the reactors was “mysteriously” raided and looted during the chaos of the civil war. Once the civil war was over Federated Boeing’s Galax yards had finally, conveniently, managed to put a domestic production line for the Standards drive units in operation and were considerably less enthusiastic about selling large numbers of Standard class spaceframes to the Terran Republic. Since the Terrans were less than enthusiastic about depending on the goodwill of New Avalon and Federated Boeing for critical components for their primary heavy strike gunboat it was decided to restart the Nike program.
The devastation of the civil war was not limited to yards and production facilities but also civilian shipping and not just from combat losses, the flight of the defeated Loyalist from the Terran Republic to the Rim Protectorate was the largest single migration since Kerenski’s exodus and all that spacelift capacity came from the already thinly stretched Terran transport pool. That over half of all surviving BLOBs left with the Rebels only made the problem worse.
It was decided that the production of military dropships had to be streamlined, the construction of about a dozen different gunboat classes simply was no longer sustainable. Many components needed for the earlier designs were no longer easily available and down teching the existing designs didn’t always produce good results. The production of several military dropship classes would be halted or the designs repurposed in an effort to replace the transport capacity that had been lost. The Gepard was one victim and production was ended in favor of a down teched Cheetah, despite the complaints of the TRN. The Standard was another victim since the facilities needed to build it had either been stolen or outright destroyed although production continued as long as Federated Boeing delivered components.
With many production lines in need of repairs and retooling the TRN decided to finally make a serious effort to restructure the Terran gunboat production, and in the extension the gunboat forces themselves, towards a more standardized force centered around a single design; much like the Free Worlds League had done around the Ryerson. Several production lines in numerous yards all over the Republic were converted to produce the Nike-II as a part of a general retooling and technological downgrading. Despite the Terran Republic’s herculean efforts to speed up the volume of Nikes built they still have not managed to catch up to the sheer numbers of Ryersons the FWL yards are able to churn out each year.
However the Nike was not to be a unique Republican design. In the Terran Rim the escaped Loyalist faction managed to put up at least one production line to manufacture the Nike-II.

Capabilities:
The experiences with the Standard class gunboats were something of a disappointment to the TRN. While the Standard was superb in the heavy strike mission it was rather mediocre in other tasks the TRN wished it to carry out. Unlike the FSNS, which lacked a heavy strike gunboat and push hard for this mission profile, the TRN had several designs to fulfill the heavy strike mission already in service and didn’t need any more. While this fact was pointed out during the design phase it was generally ignored in favor of the drive to surpass the much feared Okha in thrust, protection and firepower. The resulting design in the end became overspecialized for the TRN’s needs at that time.
The Nike-II was designed to become a less specialized general purpose first line gunboat rather than a pure heavy strike craft. Unlike the original Nike which used many advanced materials and weapons the Nike-II only makes use of generally available components like many of the TRN downgrades in the latter half of the war and post-war eras.
At nine thousand tons the Nike-II masses a quarter less than the Standard but still maintains the quartet of heavy missiles as the core of its offensive capabilities. To keep the heavy firepower of the Standard the Nike-II sacrifices both thrust and protection.
In order to compensate for the lighter armor protection a missile defense system have been added to the ship and despite lowering the mass to thrust ratio the Nike is still able to reach four and a half g at peak power output.
 The main weapons of the Nike is flanked on either side by banks of 120 long range missiles and a hexagonal mount of large lasers giving the ship a solid punch to deal with lesser targets. Twin mounted large lasers provide protection from fighters and a third hexagonal large laser turret defends the rear of the ship.
The Nike is a rather cramped design, partly a result of the ship being originally designed for more advanced technology than what was available when the design finally entered production. Even so enough space was found to fit a small craft hangar, making independent operations easier.

Variants:
Apart from the base variant there are two main versions of the Nike-II in the Terran Republic, the Terran Rim only uses the Nike-IIA and all its ships are grouped in strike squadrons where the lack of small craft capability is irrelevant.
The Nike-IIA removes the small craft bay for increased cargo capacity in an effort to improve operational endurance. The A variant is most common in the main TRN combat flotillas while the base version are more often found in system defense squadrons.
The Nike-IIB replaces the four Killer Whale missile systems and the double bow mounted lasers with five White Shark tubes. This version was originally designed as an escort for the Mastodon assault ships which is why the ability to score disabling hits in order to immobilize targets for boarding was prioritized over pure destructive power. However the Nike-IIB has spread from this niche to the mercenary market, first as contract replacements and later in outright sales.

Deployment:
The Nike is the primary combat gunboat of the Terran Rim Navy. Lacking yards to produce most of the gunboat designs in service in the squadrons that defected to the Terran Rim Navy the Nike is slowly squeezing out the other dedicated gunboat designs. It is believed that the Terran Rim Navy can deploy at least three squadrons of Nike-IIA gunboats.
The Republic rolled out the Nike-II in large numbers in an effort to replace the losses and defections of the civil war. The continued large scale production of the Nike-II despite the Republic largely staying out of the renewed hostilities has seen a sharp rise in the numbers of units outfitted with this ship. The Nike-II class is filling entire combat flotillas along the Combine border and numerous system defense squadrons throughout the Republic. In addition several mercenary commands are operating Nike-IIB, some in fairly large numbers like the Dieron Defiant, a mercenary group formed by veterans from to long bitter siege of Dieron during the First Succession War.




Nike-II CLASS GUNBOAT

Type:              Military Spheroid
Tech:              Standard
Introduced:       
Mass:               9,000 tons
Dimensions
   Length:             84.00 meters
   Width:              84.00 meters
   Height:            146.00 meters

Fuel:                 400.00 tons (12,000)
Tons/Burn-day:          1.84 tons
Safe Thrust:            6
Max Thrust:             9
Heatsinks:(154 free)  300 single
Structural Integrity:  60

Armor:                216 tons standard
   Nose:             1616 (162) 
   R/L Sides:         600 (60) 
   Aft:              1000 (100)

Weapons:
Arc (Heat) Type         Short   Medium  Long   Xtreme
Nose(70 Heat)
   4 KW (40 rounds)     16      16      16     16
   2 Large Laser         2(16)   2(16)   -      -
   6 small Laser         2*(18*) -       -      -
LF/RF(168 Heat)
   6 LRM20 (180 rounds)  7(72)   7(72)   7(72)  -
   6 Large Laser         5(48)   5(48)   -      -
AL/AR(68 Heat)
   2 Large Laser         4(36)   2(16)   -      -
     4 medium Laser   
   6 small Laser         2*(18*) -       -      -
Aft(54 Heat)
   6 Large Laser         5(48)   5(48)   -      -
   6 small Laser         2*(18*) -       -      -

Cargo:
   Bay 1: Small Craft ( 1 )                   1 Door
   Bay 2: Cargo ( 101.0 tons )

Escape Pods:            5
Life Boats:             5
Crew: 55, 10 Officers, 16 Gunners, 5 Bay, 12 Marines

Ammunition:
    40 Killer Whale Missiles (2000 tons)
   360 rounds of LRM 20 ammunition (60 tons)
   
Note:
   Equipped with 216 tons of standard armor.
Cost:
   644 million C-bills.
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Takiro

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Re: Nike-II CLASS GUNBOAT (SD)
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2017, 07:21:53 PM »

Very nice CJvR, when do you think we are going to get to the real gunboats?

You see I figured as the Second War came about new capital weaponry would be mounted on dropships big enough to accommodate them. Naval Autocannons mounted on huge (50k) gunboats would probably be the first successful innovation. Energy weapons may have problems drawing from the smaller fusion reactors of these ships however so I was up in the air on their inclusion.
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CJvR

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Re: Nike-II CLASS GUNBOAT (SD)
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2017, 07:43:34 PM »

I doubt naval tech would move from missile boats to gunships until nukes go out of fashion. It is quite simply pointless to build a huge gunship that will be nuked out of existence the same as warships.

Unless SD reduces nuke use before SW3 It would be hard to justify building anything but missile boats before then, particularly as big droppers are impossible to armor anywhere near as well as warships.

Also there is the cost factor, a NAC30 mounted on a dropship will cost almost 300 million CB. I usually houserule the dropship costs because I find the cannon one annoying.

Base cost -> component cost * 6
Atmosphere capacity -> Base cost  * 2
KF boom cost -> Base cost * 3
Spheroid cost -> Base cost * 7/9


Still I was toying with a - ? Gunship? Might be a good name to differentiate them from the gunboats.

You can give a 48k dropship 4:6 thrust rating and 130 SI for 5460 Armor and still have 20k+ tonnage available for heavy weaponry. You can fit a quartet of NAC30 there and still have tonnage over for secondaries and crew quarters.
I was thinking of limiting all cap weapons to the front and rear arcs, except missiles and perhaps lasers, for balancing and sheer size reasons. EDIT: The projectile weapons should be banned from using bracket fire, the energy weapons being forced to use it in order not to overtax the reactor.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2017, 07:50:34 PM by CJvR »
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Takiro

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Re: Nike-II CLASS GUNBOAT (SD)
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2017, 08:25:33 PM »

Perhaps it should be a development for the end of the Second Succession War as Warships are few and their role/use has changed to purely support. As you say nukes go out of style in the Third Succession War as they did in canon so perhaps this is when true Gunboats come into play. I refer to Dropships carrying Capital Missiles as Missile Boats anyway so perhaps this is where the distinction really comes into being.

Overtaxing the ship's reactor as you call it is something to watch for, perhaps future Gunboats use an oversized power amplifier similar to an ICE Vehicle to boost available power.
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CJvR

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Re: Nike-II CLASS GUNBOAT (SD)
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2017, 08:44:27 PM »

Well there is one role left for warships, orbital bombardment once you have secured the orbitals. While hardened positions on enemy worlds might get nuked you would not want to use those too often on your own worlds or on danger close enemy positions. Perhaps gunships could be kickstarted as mobile orbital bombardment platforms in SW2 which then graduated into the primary space combatants.
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Dragon Cat

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Re: Nike-II CLASS GUNBOAT (SD)
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2017, 09:07:19 PM »

I like it
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Really, as long as there is an unbroken line of people calling themselves "Clan Nova Cat," it doesn't really matter to me if they're still using Iron Wombs or not. They may be dead as a faction, but as a people they still exist. It's not uncommon in the real world, after all.

CJvR

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Re: Nike-II CLASS GUNBOAT (SD)
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2017, 09:51:56 PM »

I like it
Thanks.

It, and the Okha, are pretty much optimal designs IMPO for BT-nuclear space warfare, unless you are going to game the system hard (there is nothing in the rules preventing you from nuke proofing your ships by point defense spam). Perhaps there should be a greater emphasis of missile defenses in my designs but with the rather anemic effect of the non-lostech point defenses there isn't much point to them really.
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drakensis

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Re: Nike-II CLASS GUNBOAT (SD)
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2017, 04:39:46 AM »

Having played a campaign where my Canopians were very worried about the nuke-happy Taurians next to us and with technology rising even more sharply than the 3050s the foundation stone of the new Canopian fleet were two classes of heavy dropships that could survive a hit from a capital nuclear missile. Once.

Once warships were available, it was a matter of 'how many Laser AMS and heatsinks do I need for a +10 penalty on the TN to hit the ship with a missile, hundreds of times a turn'. Fighting the Canopian navy was like fighting in a disco.
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CJvR

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Re: Nike-II CLASS GUNBOAT (SD)
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2017, 09:46:13 AM »

Yeah, it is one of those ugly things that are allowed under game mechanics, and even encouraged in the design rules, but it breaks immersion. Yeah you can put a 60 Cap-damage 120 mLaser bay on a dropper for just 600 tons - but should you?

Are those Canopian cans posted here?
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drakensis

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Re: Nike-II CLASS GUNBOAT (SD)
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2017, 03:59:57 AM »

Sure. Here's the design lineage of the Diana-class ships.

Diana Assault Ship
Diana-II Light Carrier
Diana-III Raider
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CJvR

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Re: Nike-II CLASS GUNBOAT (SD)
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2017, 02:21:20 PM »

Almost two billion CB, ouch!!!

In a nuke situation why not use KW tubes? Still Lostech? Not only do they provide nuke capacity they are also the cheapest firepower (in CB) you can mount on a ship.

The LL is generally superior to the PPC as dropship armament. 80% of the firepower at half the cost, it is by far my favored lev-1 medium ranged weapon.
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drakensis

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Re: Nike-II CLASS GUNBOAT (SD)
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2017, 02:42:28 AM »

Almost two billion CB, ouch!!!
Quite. Fortunately the Canopians were getting a lot of foreign money coming in due to a medical development that I don't think the GM thought I could leverage as much as I did.

In a nuke situation why not use KW tubes? Still Lostech? Not only do they provide nuke capacity they are also the cheapest firepower (in CB) you can mount on a ship.
The Magistracy's limited nuke production (and capital missile production) was largely centred upon orbital defense platforms at the time. Putting them on dropships that might be sent outside Canopian space didn't fit with their foreign policy, which included a "not as nuke-happy as the Taurians" clause.

The LL is generally superior to the PPC as dropship armament. 80% of the firepower at half the cost, it is by far my favored lev-1 medium ranged weapon.
The Watsonian answer is that the Canopians were building more PPCs than Large Lasers at the time.
The Doylist answer is that it made for nice round numbers when working out capital damage. The Taurian player had a lot of light warships and had made a rather unfortunate diplomatic mistake that left a lot of tension in the relationship between the two states.
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Dragon Cat

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Re: Nike-II CLASS GUNBOAT (SD)
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2017, 03:33:10 AM »

I forget can you use barracudas on a DropShip to defend a WarShip from enemy capital missiles?

If you can put four Cuda launchers on the Nike and send them out with canon SL-era ships and that's a serious amount of defence
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Really, as long as there is an unbroken line of people calling themselves "Clan Nova Cat," it doesn't really matter to me if they're still using Iron Wombs or not. They may be dead as a faction, but as a people they still exist. It's not uncommon in the real world, after all.

CJvR

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Re: Nike-II CLASS GUNBOAT (SD)
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2017, 06:47:51 AM »

I forget can you use barracudas on a DropShip to defend a WarShip from enemy capital missiles?

If you can put four Cuda launchers on the Nike and send them out with canon SL-era ships and that's a serious amount of defence
There is no problem with mounting Barracudas on DS that I know off, except that they are extremely anemic weapons against anything larger than an ASF.

If it wasn't for the SD tech decline setting I would have put AR10s with a 5KW/5B missile loadout on the Nike (along with other high tech goodies, AMS, FA-armor, ER weapons etc). You could dump the two forward LLs and replace the 4 KW tubes with 6 Barracudas for an escort version of the Nike.
(4 KW = 2600 tons, 6 Barr = 2340)
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Dragon Cat

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Re: Nike-II CLASS GUNBOAT (SD)
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2017, 07:13:47 PM »

What I meant was you can use AMS to defend other ships I can't remember if you can use other weapons to target incoming weapons fire on another ship

I.e. White sharks fired at an Aegis shot down by the Nikes cudas
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My stuff, and my AU timeline follow link and enjoy

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Really, as long as there is an unbroken line of people calling themselves "Clan Nova Cat," it doesn't really matter to me if they're still using Iron Wombs or not. They may be dead as a faction, but as a people they still exist. It's not uncommon in the real world, after all.
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