OBT Forum
General BattleTech => General Discussion => AeroTech => Topic started by: Takiro on May 03, 2015, 10:57:50 PM
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All the talk (including mine) about modernizing Clan assets following Tukayyid seemed to bypass Dropships until masterarminas got me thinking about the ultimate Troop Escort. Unfortunately Pocket Warships or Missile Boats will come later for the Clans after the Federated Commonwealth deploys them in this timeline intially. I believe they are practical here and if you reduce the Assault Transports high speed 5/8 (coming soon - see below) to a normal 3/5 thrust rating you could free up space for such capital weaponry. However several other holes appeared to me in regards to Clan interplanetary craft. For example, Blood Spirit has always had a trinary of vehicles in its front line units yet there are no Dropships that carry them. Hell's Horses to face the same obstacle despite centuries of vehicle deployment. There is a throw away line in the Outpost that has them using ad hoc space for all these years. Sorry does not wash to me. Different Clans organize themselves in different ways and that isn't really addressed. Similar to the ways Capellan vessels use standard fighter organization but have been different than standard all along. With the following fifteen (15) designs I seek to remedy this situation as seamlessly as possible. Love to hear your thoughts and hope you enjoy!
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QUICKSILVER DROPSHIPS
While the Quicksilver Program did not extend to so-called Large Craft several factors conspired to move new designs along rapidly. The untapped and impressive capabilities of the Free Guilds were undoubtedly the single largest reason for the sudden appearance of so many new Dropship designs. With a history that dates back to the Second Exodus these unaffiliated Clansmen have long been overlooked. These spacefarers’ innate skills and carefully preserved bone yards have provided a welcomed boost to our strength following the debacle on Tukayyid.
Of course the invasion of the InnerSphere also provided the necessary impetus to improve interplanetary shipping. The death of ilKhan Leo Showers and the bombardment of Turtle Bay proved an over reliance on Warships. These tragedies along with other incidents during Operation Revival led some Clans to adjust their design plans. The Smoke Jaguar Miraborg class Carrier and the Steel Viper Noruff class Assault Ship are clear examples of such midstream alterations. However if the Crusade was to eventually succeed more Dropships would be needed to allow the Clans to project their force to maximum effect.
Thankfully the Clans had access to certain dropship designs long before the Great Houses because of the Cameron Blacklist. These restricted technologies were available to the SLDF well before the Amaris Coup and the Exodus. Dropships like the Avenger, the Behemoth, the Colossus, the Condor, the Mammoth, the Pentagon, the Seeker, the Titan, and the Vengeance were produced exclusively by the Terran Hegemony with outside sales strictly regulated. Despite all the destruction wrought throughout the centuries the schematics as well as more than a few examples remained in Clan hands.
Retired designs like the Confederate, the Leopard, the Fury, and the Achilles were mothballed by the Free Guilds and many Clans in the centuries since the Exodus. Outmoded and replaced these ships sat idle until the invasion which saw the activation of the Confederate. In the wake of Tukayyid they received a second look as did several liners, tugs and cargo carriers. While Clan society regularly overlooks these civilian ships they are becoming increasingly vital to logistics. In a move to codify the upgraded classes the ilKhan recently decreed that the IIC designation be applied here.
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Aculeus class Dropship
Type: Military Aerodyne
Use: Assault Transport
Technology: Clan
Introduced: 3054
Mass: 1,900 tons
Dimensions
Length: 65.5 meters
Width: 51.6 meters
Height: 22.4 meters
Fuel: 250 tons (10,000 fuel points)
Tons/Burn-day: 1.84
Safe Thrust: 5
Maximum Thrust: 8
Heat Sinks: 103 (206)
Structural Integrity: 14
Armor
Fore: 512
Sides: 402
Aft: 252
Cargo
Bay 1: ‘Mech (1) 1 door
Bay 2: Fighters (2) 1 doors
Bay 3: Battle Armor Point/Squad (1) / Cargo (104.5 tons) 1 door
Escape Pods: 1
Life Boats: 0
Crew: 8 minimum (1 officer, 7 enlisted/non-rated)
Ammunition: 48 rounds Gauss Rifle ammunition (6 tons), 144 rounds LRM 20 ammunition (24 tons)
Notes: Equipped with 63 tons of Ferro-Aluminum armor.
Weapons Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat) Type Short Medium Long Extreme Class
Nose (50 Heat)
2 Gauss Rifles 3 (30) 3 (30) 3 (30) - Autocannon
2 LRM 20+Artemis 3 (32) 3 (32) 3 (32) - LRM
3 ER Large Lasers 3 (30) 3 (30) 3 (30) 3 (30) Laser
LW/RW (132 Heat)
2 ER PPCs 3 (30) 3 (30) 3 (30) - PPC
2 LRM 20+Artemis 3 (32) 3 (32) 3 (32) - LRM
2 ER Large Lasers 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) Laser
Aft (24 Heat)
2 ER Large Lasers 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) Laser
Overview:
The relationship between the Steel Viper and Goliath Scorpion Clans has always been based upon mutual respect. Warriors on both sides regularly acknowledged the combat skills and tactical acumen of their rivals. When saKhan Ren Posavatz challenged the Vipers for a position in their invasion force and won this well founded esteem seemed to grow. Despite the disappearance of this senior Mechwarrior and his elite ‘Mech star on Tukayyid this friendship has apparently continued to expand. During the Twelfth Challenge of the Quicksilver Trails the two Clans successfully worked together on the Golden Lion OmniMech.
So when Khan Ariel Suvorov was asked to consult on the Kheshig Project by Clan Steel Viper she likely thought her Clan would be able to repay some of the debt it had accumulated during the earlier phases of the Quicksilver Trails. Never would she have dreamt of a scenario which would lead to the creation of this Dropship. However, keen on developing the Scorpion’s Aerospace Force the Khan accepted confident that she would share in the fruits of a new design effort. Stunned after reviewing the Free Guilds available resources she soon realized the Scorpions could field their own ship designed to give them a distinct tactical advantage in any situation.
Based on the retired Leopard class Dropship this design was part Assault Ship and part Combined Arms Transport. Drawing heavily on the Avenger’s weaponry and the Broadsword’s speed this battle wagon could quickly deliver a small force effectively into almost any combat zone. While saKhan Nelson Elam and Master of Instruction Nikolai Djerassi voiced serious concerns over such an investment the results seem to have proven Khan Suvorov correct at least in the short term. Aptly named the Aculeus for the sting of the Scorpion this new Dropship could be the decisive edge which the Khan was seeking for her Clan.
Capabilities:
Built to deploy the smallest piece of a Goliath Scorpion combined arms unit (3 mixed points) and insert it into a variety of battlefields the Aculeus is something akin to a Special Forces transport. While the element of stealth is of course absent in true Clan fashion this design has some pretty impressive capabilities. Intending to match the speed and firepower of the Avenger the final product would fall short of 5.5Gs of thrust. However, mating the Peterson 211 Drive System with the Leopard’s hull did produce 4Gs of thrust at maximum burn which designers considered outstanding for a transport.
With two Gauss Rifles, four Extended Range Particle Projection Cannons, six Long Range Missile 20 systems with Artemis IV FCS, and nine Extended Range Large Lasers it does exceed the impressive arsenal of the Avenger. The structural integrity of the Leopard was doubled also surpassing the Assault Ship’s sturdy hull. The armor too was replaced with sixty three tons of Clan Ferro Aluminum tripling the available protection of the Leopard. Thanks to Clan technology the crew complement has been reduced by one officer to a total of eight personnel.
With only a single ‘Mech bay, two fighter bays and room for five Elementals it takes five of these ships to carry a Battle (Mixed Services) Trinary into action. Since many Clans do not utilize such formations it is currently remains unknown if this design will draw much interest outside the Goliath Scorpion Clan. With fuel tanks nearly doubled from the Leopard to facilitate long range operations speculation about this being a Seeker vessel is also plausible. Some have suggested that the Watch could also use such ships for independent recon missions.
Deployment:
The Goliath Scorpions plan to refit as many Leopards as they can into Aculeus with the help of the Steel Vipers and the Free Guilds. How rapidly these ships will proliferate their touman depends upon their available resources. The first vessels were immediately assigned to the renowned Heartvenom Cluster for extensive field testing. These upgraded Assault Transports have yet to see actual combat with potential opponents wary to challenge its capabilities.
While Clan Steel Viper and the Free Guilds were instrumental in the construction of these formidable Dropships neither apparently wants to field it. The Vipers instead are leveraging their rights to lure the Wolf Clan into a deal which could include a joint attack against the Jade Falcons. The Wolves have expressed interest in acquiring the design for use with its 4th Striker Cluster of Epsilon Galaxy which was patterned after Goliath Scorpion formations but it is unknown if they would commit to such an arrangement.
Speculation that the Vipers also plan to reactivate Leopard CVs based upon the success of this project is also circulating. With its unique aerospace stars composed of five fighters it is thought that the Clan would utilize these proposed Assault Carriers to augment its strength. However rumors also say that this is but one Dropship design being looked at by the Steel Vipers for future manufacturing.
While forbidden from fielding any weaponized equipment the Free Guilds have made use of the Aculeus. Evidently the Guilders reached an agreement with Clan Diamond Shark to acquire the design. It was the Sharks who first produced the Broadsword and have now begun to sell captured InnerSphere Leopards refitted as Assault Transports to other Clans. Star Adder has eagerly acquired most of the ships but has yet to deploy them with any units thus far. Reportedly one was also bought by Cloud Cobra missionaries who are in the process of departing the Homeworlds for their first mission to spread the Way.
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Fury IIC class Dropship
Type: Military Aerodyne
Use: Troop Carrier
Technology: Clan
Introduced: 3053
Mass: 1,900 tons
Dimensions
Length: 79 meters
Width: 73.2 meters
Height: 28.1 meters
Fuel: 140 tons (5,600 fuel points)
Tons/Burn-day: 1.84
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Heat Sinks: 78 (155)
Structural Integrity: 7
Armor
Fore: 220
Sides: 164
Aft: 110
Cargo
Bay 1: Light Vehicles (10) 1 door
Bay 2: Battle Armor Point/Squads (5) 1 doors
Bay 3: Cargo (308 tons) 1 door
Escape Pods: 8
Life Boats: 7
Crew: 7 minimum (1 officer, 6 enlisted/non-rated)
Ammunition: 32 rounds Gauss Rifle ammunition (4 tons), 72 rounds LRM 20 ammunition (12 tons)
Notes: Equipped with 31.5 tons of standard armor.
Weapons Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat) Type Short Medium Long Extreme Class
Nose (56 Heat)
2 Gauss Rifles 3 (30) 3 (30) 3 (30) - Autocannon
2 ER PPCs 3 (30) 3 (30) 3 (30) - PPC
2 ER Large Lasers 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) Laser
LW/RW (72 Heat)
2 ER Large Lasers 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) Laser
2 LRM 20+Artemis 3 (32) 3 (32) 3 (32) - LRM
Aft (27 Heat)
1 ER Large Laser 1 (10) 1 (10) 2 (10) 1 (10) Laser
1 ER PPC 2 (15) 2 (15) 2 (15) - PPC
Overview:
As the SLDF arrived in the Pentagon Worlds military equipment including Fury class Dropships were decommissioned. The founding of the Clans did nothing to help their situation as Vehicles soon fell out of favor with many. Over time the Free Guilds salvaged these unwanted vessels, stripped them of their weaponry, and mothballed them just outside the Strana Mechty star system. There they sat along with many other derelicts for centuries undisturbed and nearly forgotten.
Realizing the Quicksilver Program could make use of these vessels Guildmaster Kamrus first contacted Clan Hell’s Horses. One of the few Clans to deploy Vehicles in their front line formations the Horses had for years relied on ad hoc combined arms variants of the Union IIC and the Overlord IIC. This led to a confusing amount of make do conversions based on ever changing unit organizations. Realizing the potential benefits and low investment necessary to streamline logistics Khan Malavai Fletcher in one of his final acts authorized the Fury IIC deal with the Free Guilds.
Capabilities:
There were not many changes to the original Fury design resulting in a relatively quick turn around. In fact the Fury IIC was the first Quicksilver Dropship launched by the Clans mere months after the project began. Clan tech upgrades to the engine, armor, and crew complement led to slight weight ratio improvements in general. Maximizing the armored hull of the craft increased the overall protection but much of this was redistributed forward.
With its weapons removed centuries before a new arsenal composed of two Gauss Rifles, seven Extended Range Large Lasers, three Extended Range Particle Projection Cannons, and four Long Range Missile-20s with Artemis IV FCS was relatively easy to insert. The vessel’s Heat Sinks were doubled and slightly augmented allowing it to fire all its weaponry at once if necessary without overheating.
Adding two Light Vehicle crucibles and replacing the standard infantry contingent with a star of Elementals allowed the Fury IIC to become the standard Light Nova Transport for the Horses in short order. Additionally the cargo bay retained its relatively high capacity allowing for greater supply range for ground forces this Dropship is attached to.
Deployment:
With thirty Vehicles in every frontline cluster the Hell’s Horses are still adjusting to the changes bought by Quicksilver. With three OmniVehicle designs now in hand (Nike Strike Tank, Epona Pursuit Vehicle, Bucephalus Weapons Carrier) the Clan should be able to upgrade all of its forces in short order. This would include the replacement of conventional infantry as well with Elementals or some other type of Battlearmor complementing their performance all while being transported into battle by the Fury IIC.
While the Wolf Clan offered their technical assistance once the program was bought to light the Horses generously allowed their ally to obtain the Fury IIC in order to transport their new Fenris VTOL. The Blood Spirits were also eager to make use of the craft to deploy their new Tanit Hovercraft and also made a deal to obtain the specifications from the Horses. As a result a supply of both OmniVehicles has begun to appear in the Horse touman.
Rumors of new Ultralight Vehicles have garnered the attention of the Ice Hellions as well but they have yet to issue any formal challenge. Apparently both the Steel Vipers and the Ghost Bears have captured some Fury class Dropships in the InnerSphere. It is likely that these Clans will also challenge for the rights to the IIC upgrade in the near future.
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Can't wait too see what else you have going!
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Thanks gametime! Working on the fluff for the remaining 13 Quicksilver Dropships which are all based on existing craft. Next up is perhaps the nastiest assault ship designed as a response to the Vipers space borne provocations, the Pentagon IIC. While the Free Guilds will have a hand in it the Snow Ravens are going to be jealously guarding this Naval Escort. ;)
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Pentagon IIC class Dropship
Type: Military Spheroid
Use: Assault Ship
Technology: Clan
Introduced: 3054
Mass: 4,000 tons
Dimensions
Length: 89 meters
Width: 75 meters
Height: 82 meters
Fuel: 500 tons (15,000 fuel points)
Tons/Burn-day: 1.84
Safe Thrust: 7
Maximum Thrust: 11
Heat Sinks: 270 (540)
Structural Integrity: 21
Armor
Fore: 541
Sides: 472
Aft: 411
Cargo
Bay 1: Cargo (476.5 tons)
Escape Pods: 4
Life Boats: 0
Crew: 17 minimum (3 officer, 14 enlisted/non-rated) and 5 Elementals
Ammunition: 576 rounds Gauss Rifle ammunition (72 tons), 324 rounds LRM 20 ammunition (54 tons)
Notes: Equipped with 75.5 tons of ferro-aluminum armor.
Weapons Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat) Type Short Medium Long Extreme Class
Nose (90 Heat)
2 ER PPCs 3 (30) 3 (30) 3 (30) - PPC
4 Gauss Rifles 6 (60) 6 (60) 6 (60) - Autocannon
2 ER Large Lasers 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) Laser
2 LRM 20+Artemis 3 (32) 3 (32) 3 (32) - LRM
2 Large Pulse Lasers 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) - Pulse Laser
FL/FR (180 Heat)
2 ER PPCs 3 (30) 3 (30) 3 (30) - PPC
4 Gauss Rifles 6 (60) 6 (60) 6 (60) - Autocannon
2 ER Large Lasers 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) Laser
2 LRM 20+Artemis 3 (32) 3 (32) 3 (32) - LRM
2 Large Pulse Lasers 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) - Pulse Laser
FL/FR (180 Heat)
2 ER PPCs 3 (30) 3 (30) 3 (30) - PPC
4 Gauss Rifles 6 (60) 6 (60) 6 (60) - Autocannon
2 ER Large Lasers 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) Laser
2 LRM 20+Artemis 3 (32) 3 (32) 3 (32) - LRM
2 Large Pulse Lasers 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) - Pulse Laser
Aft (90 Heat)
2 ER PPCs 3 (30) 3 (30) 3 (30) - PPC
4 Gauss Rifles 6 (60) 6 (60) 6 (60) - Autocannon
2 ER Large Lasers 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) Laser
2 LRM 20+Artemis 3 (32) 3 (32) 3 (32) - LRM
2 Large Pulse Lasers 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) - Pulse Laser
Overview:
Threatened by the sudden launch of so many new Dropships including several Steel Viper designs in development the Snow Ravens searched for a way to restore the balance. Luckily the Free Guilds were ready to assist the so-called Naval Clan who they had long viewed as kindred spirits. The Guilders revealed to the Ravens that a single partially built Pentagon had survived in their Naval Caches. While none survived the Amaris Coup to depart on the Exodus the Star League in Exile apparently decided to resurrect the class for service in the Pentagon Worlds.
No doubt the name had something to do with the decision but the changing state of logistics probably played the largest role. Demobilizing the SLDF sent many ships into mothballs and new craft which could be crewed with fewer personnel became desirable. With a fearsome reputation and small crew needs the Pentagon was considered an ideal patrol craft. This apex predator could effectively guard the star systems of the Exiles and insure security among their new space lanes. Five ships each named for the Pentagon Worlds were approved for construction by “the Great Father†Aleksandr Kerensky.
Unfortunately none of these vessels were ready for launch when the Civil War began and the conflict made further construction impossible. It was thought until recently that all were scrapped or destroyed by the various warring Pentagon factions. Apparently the enterprising Guilders salvaged what would have become the SLS Circe following Operation Klondike. Gathering parts from other craft they finished what they could and hid the unfinished dropship. Forgotten this incomplete craft was stashed away in the outer reaches of the Strana Mechty star system for more then two centuries.
Capabilities:
At its very core the Clan version of the Pentagon remains almost completely unchanged. Its internal structure was untouched by engineers and the GM 5600 Sublite Maneuver Drives remain largely unaffected by the refit. The engines did however receive a Clan tech overhaul which reduced their overall mass but retained their remarkable 5.573 Gs of thrust at maximum burn. Cargo space was slightly increased while fuel space was decreased by one hundred tons. The crew complement was reduced to seventeen from twenty two and five Elementals replaced the twenty five Star League era conventional marines. While Clan Ferro Aluminum armor was used to maximize and improve protection the amount was still the same.
Snow Raven weapon designers focused their efforts on the Nose Arc of the original Pentagon which they considered formidable. Doubling the number of Gauss Rifles in the nose while adding two Large Pulse Lasers gave that arc a total of twelve weapons. After reviewing the potential firepower offered by this long ranged configuration the decision was made to clone all six firing arcs. This effectively optimized the ship’s arsenal without resorting to extra fire control systems which would have been cumbersome. In total this uniform weapons array is truly impressive.
Two dozen Gauss Rifles backed up by twelve Extended Range Particle Projection Cannons compose the vessel’s main guns. These heavy hitters are supplemented by a dozen Long Range Missile-20 systems which are all linked to Artemis IV FCS improving their performance. Twelve Extended Range Large Lasers provide striking power at extreme distances while twelve Large Pulse Lasers are also available for sustained accurate fire against fighter craft. This impressive arsenal can shoot without fear of over heating thanks to the Pentagon IIC’s expanded Double Heat Sinks.
Deployment:
Essentially designed to wade into oncoming enemy Fighters and Dropships while delivering withering destructive fusillades the Pentagon IIC has the potential to change Clan naval warfare. The CSR Jackdaw is the only one of its kind in service thus far with the Lum Garrison Fleet. As no Pentagons remain to be salvaged new craft will have to be built – a process that could take another year to begin. With the Steel Viper Noruff class beginning service at nearly the same time and the Ice Hellion Hector class coming online it should be interesting to see how these designs fare in Clan service. While it remains to be seen how exactly they will be used the Snow Ravens will likely jealously guard their new Naval Escort from possession by all other Clans for as long as possible.
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Condor IIC class Dropship
Type: Military Aerodyne
Use: Troop Carrier
Technology: Clan
Introduced: 3054
Mass: 4,500 tons
Dimensions
Length: 104 meters
Width: 97.4 meters
Height: 36.1 meters
Fuel: 208 tons (6,240 fuel points)
Tons/Burn-day: 1.84
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Heat Sinks: 113 (226)
Structural Integrity: 9
Armor
Fore: 283
Sides: 211
Aft: 141
Cargo
Bay 1: ‘Mech (15) 1 door or Heavy Vehicles (15)/Light Vehicles (15) 1 door
Bay 2: Battle Armor Point/Squads (15) 1 doors
Bay 3: Cargo (387.5 tons) 1 door
Escape Pods: 10
Life Boats: 10
Crew: 9 minimum (1 officer, 8 enlisted/non-rated)
Ammunition: 90 rounds LRM 20 ammunition (15 tons)
Notes: Equipped with 40.5 tons of standard armor.
Weapons Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat) Type Short Medium Long Extreme Class
Nose (66 Heat)
2 ER PPCs 3 (30) 3 (30) 3 (30) - PPC
2 ER Large Lasers 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) Laser
2 LRM 20+Artemis 3 (32) 3 (32) 3 (32) - LRM
LW/RW (132 Heat)
2 ER PPCs 3 (30) 3 (30) 3 (30) - PPC
2 ER Large Lasers 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) Laser
2 LRM 20+Artemis 3 (32) 3 (32) 3 (32) - LRM
Aft (27 Heat)
1 ER Large Laser 1 (10) 1 (10) 2 (10) 1 (10) Laser
1 ER PPC 2 (15) 2 (15) 2 (15) - PPC
Overview:
Looking to exploit the Quicksilver Program to the greatest extent possible the Diamond Shark Clan contacted the Free Guilds. Impressed by the spacefarers innovative ideas and plentiful salvage the Sharks consulted with them on how to best profit. The Guilders immediately pointed out the availability of the Condor which had originally been designed to transport battalions of infantry for the Star League. Thanks to the Cameron Blacklist this Dropship remained exclusive property of the SLDF for nearly a century when many took part in the Exodus. By this time the craft had become prized for its ability to carry so many men and material on long journeys.
Phased out of service many Clans simply discarded the Condor except the Free Guilds who deweaponized the remainder and placed them into mothballs among the stars. Undertaking some simple Clan tech upgrades would be a minimal investment for the Diamond Sharks who could quickly see a return. Envisioned as a large combined arms transport engineers soon realized the large cargo holds could be used for a variety of functions. To that end a semi-modular bay system was fitted within allowing a diverse number of configurations. While not a truly modular Dropship the Condor IIC is a new logistical asset to all Clans that deploy it.
Capabilities:
Like the Fury IIC this Clan redesign features few wholesale changes requiring little turn around time. For example, the fuel system and structure of the original were completely unaltered. In fact the Condor IIC became the second Quicksilver Dropship to launch because of these slight upgrades. The venerable Pitban 1350-XRB Drive System remains largely unchanged except for a few Clan tech upgrades reducing its overall mass. The IIC retains the standard 2.5Gs at maximum thrust which is considered acceptable for Clan battlespace doctrine.
The ship’s weaponry consists of seven Extended Range Projection Particle Cannons, seven Extended Range Large Lasers, and six Long Range Missile 20 racks with Artemis IV FCS. While more formidable and longer reaching then its predecessor the craft is not intended to engage in direct combat. Rather these systems are considered defensive in nature and a deterrent to any would be threats. The Condor IIC also increased its integral heat sinks and doubled them to effectively dissipate added weapon fire from continuous battle.
Thanks to Clan automation the crew complement was reduced from two dozen to just nine members. Two escape pods were also added to help evacuate personnel in case of emergency. This is entirely insufficient and is seen as one of the designs shortcomings along with the access doors. With only three doors to load and unload up to 75 Elementals and 30 Vehicles such operations tend to take longer than other troop carriers. However thanks to its semi-modular bay system the Condor IIC is valued far more than it is critiqued at least right now.
Engineered to carry a Supernova Trinary of varying composition the Condor IIC comes in three different variants. The first has 15 Mech crucibles occupy bay one for a standard line unit. The second changes that to 30 Vehicle crucibles for a more conventional force. The third turns bay one into a second cargo bay enabling the vessel to transport up to two thousand six hundred and thirty seven tons of cargo. To insure the Dropship delivers its payload unharmed approximately nine tons of armor plating was added for the maximum design protection.
Deployment:
The first Condor IICs were launched early in 3054 and were soon joined by many others from different Clans. The Diamond Shark-Free Guild partnership was quick to offer refit kits for existing Dropships which have expedited its proliferation. Star Adder was perhaps the most keenly interested in the design committing resources to restore five such craft. This rate will soon match Diamond Shark numbers which are being sold to Homeworld Clans like Blood Spirit and Hell’s Horses rapidly. Invading Clans especially Steel Viper and Ghost Bear captured several Condors during the war. These craft will soon be refitted in the field thanks to Diamond Shark schematics and placed into service. As of yet no Clan has committed resources to building new Condor IICs but given the vessel’s utility every Clan will likely make use of this design. Rumors have also begun to circulate the Free Guilds are considering constructing a civilian version which would of course be an unarmed cargo carrier.
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NOTE: This design was inspired by someone long ago who posted it on the internet. One of my favorite ideas. This is not an exact copy but the credit should go to the original poster. Sadly I can not remember who. Feel free to point that out if you know. ;)
Hector class Dropship
Type: Military Aerodyne
Use: Assault Ship
Technology: Clan
Introduced: 3054
Mass: 4,500 tons
Dimensions
Length: 125 meters
Width: 37.4 meters
Height: 23 meters
Fuel: 300 tons (9,000 fuel points)
Tons/Burn-day: 1.84
Safe Thrust: 10
Maximum Thrust: 15
Heat Sinks: 257 (514)
Structural Integrity: 16
Armor
Fore: 600
Sides: 446
Aft: 300
Cargo
Bay 1: Small Craft (1) 1 door
Battle Armor Point/Squad (2)
Bay 2: Cargo (148 tons) 1 door
Escape Pods: 2
Life Boats: 0
Crew: 14 minimum (2 officers, 12 enlisted/non-rated)
Ammunition: 100 rounds Ultra Autocannon/20 ammunition (20 tons), 144 rounds Gauss Rifle ammunition (18 tons), 90 rounds LRM 20 ammunition (15 tons)
Notes: Equipped with 63 tons of Ferro-Aluminum armor.
Weapons Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat) Type Short Medium Long Extreme Class
Nose (116 Heat)
2 ER PPCs 3 (30) 3 (30) 3 (30) - PPC
2 Large Pulse Lasers 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) - Pulse Laser
2 ER Large Lasers 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) Laser
2 Gauss Rifles 3 (30) 3 (30) 3 (30) - Autocannon
2 LRM 20+Artemis 3 (32) 3 (32) 3 (32) - LRM
2 Ultra AC/20s 6 (60) 6 (60) - - Autocannon
LW/RW (176 Heat)
2 ER PPCs 3 (30) 3 (30) 3 (30) - PPC
2 Large Pulse Lasers 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) - Pulse Laser
2 ER Large Lasers 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) Laser
2 Gauss Rifles 3 (30) 3 (30) 3 (30) - Autocannon
2 LRM 20+Artemis 3 (32) 3 (32) 3 (32) - LRM
LW/RW Aft (148 Heat)
2 ER PPCs 3 (30) 3 (30) 3 (30) - PPC
2 Large Pulse Lasers 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) - Pulse Laser
2 ER Large Lasers 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) Laser
Aft (74 Heat)
2 ER PPCs 3 (30) 3 (30) 3 (30) - PPC
2 Large Pulse Lasers 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) - Pulse Laser
2 ER Large Lasers 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) Laser
Overview:
Spurred on by the Quicksilver Program the Ice Hellion Clan investigated the possibility of putting their mark on Dropship design. News that a few swift Achilles had been mothballed by the Free Guilds immediately caught their interest. Many of these formidable vessels had been destroyed during the Pentagon Civil War or early in the Golden Century. As naval combat evolved among the Clans these Assault Ships saw their roles were diminish in Kerensky’s new society. Aerospace fighters took a leading role while Warships were honored for their destructive potential. With Safcon resulting in Dropships becoming mere transports the few remaining Achilles were mothballed or simply dismantled for parts.
Intrigued by the vessel’s speed the Clan purchased the Guild’s inventory and sought ways to improve the original further. Hellion scientists wanted to push the upper limits of Dropship over thrust and soon convinced their Khans to bring in Clan Snow Raven for technical assistance. Looking for ways to blunt the new Dropship building program of the Steel Vipers the acknowledged masters of all things naval were only too happy to help. Team Frozen, as Ice Hellion and Snow Raven engineers took to calling themselves, got to work. While they built a massive new engine the first ship was refitted with Clan weaponry and technology. Their recently completed creation named the Hector is named for the Clan homeworld as well as the hero of ancient Troy.
Capabilities:
Essentially an upgraded Clan Achilles this Dropship redesign went beyond a simple IIC designation. Swifter than its predecessor thanks to the Talarian Star Drive which is an engineering marvel of Clan technology. Named after the winged sandals of mythology these powerful interplanetary engines are capable of 7.5 G's at maximum acceleration. With the speed of some Light Aerospace Fighters these vessels can easily outmaneuver any other dropship and bring its devastating front facing weaponry to bear on unlucky targets.
The main guns of the Hector are twin Ultra Autocannon/20s mounted in the vessel’s nose. These devastating weapons are both supplied with fifty rounds of ammunition enabling their continuous use during battle. Augmenting the forward arc are six Gauss Rifles and six Long Range Missile-20 racks with Artemis IV FCS. This long range arsenal is just as formidable and complements the Ultra Autocannons nicely. Last but certainly not least are a battery of energy weapons mounted in every arc that further supplement the ship’s arsenal.
A dozen Extended Range Particle Projection Cannons bring their limitless firepower along with twelve Extended Range Large Lasers whose extreme reach is nearly unmatched. To deal with opposing aerospace fighters twelve Large Pulse Lasers round out the Hector’s offensive array. The heat dissipation was radically upgraded to improve its performance by almost four times the original Achilles specifications. The armor was replaced by sixty three tons of Clan Ferro-Aluminum giving the Assault Ship impressive survivability.
Not everything was changed however as the fuel system and internal structure remained almost completely unaltered. Some sacrifices did have to be made to make way for new improvements. Luckily Clan tech enabled the crew complement to be reduced from thirty to just fourteen personnel. With two Elemental Points (one used for ship security the other for boarding actions) replacing the original conventional infantry carried on board the number of escape pods were also reduced. The integral small craft was reduced to a single bay and only one hundred forty eight tons remained for cargo.
Deployment:
The recent launch of the IHS Hector by the Ice Hellions has already begun a race to build more of these Assault Ships it seems. Since the Hellions control most of the available Clan supply it is likely they will field a majority of these vessels. Snow Raven whose assistance guaranteed them the second ship in the class, the SRS Lum, will likely try to procure more. The Smoke Jaguars appear to be third in line with the SJS Huntress which was one of two brand new Achilles sent for refit to the Clan Homeworlds. The second will become Ice Hellion property as part of this still to be revealed supply agreement. Incredibly Kindraa Mick-Kreese of the Fire Mandrills announced they salvaged an Achilles recently and intend to refit it.
Other Clans will likely follow depending upon their success. As of now there are no production facilities gearing up for production in the Homeworlds but that could change. It is possible that the Schuyler production facility could be retooled for the Hector but it remains unknown if the Jaguars are willing or able to accomplish that right now. It should be noted that techs serving as crew members are perhaps the most enthusiastic about the new design. Many are trueborn washouts who can now comes close to fulfilling their dreams as an Aerospace Pilot.
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Sorry folks been busy with lots of real life stuff. Hopefully three more will shortly follow catching me up soon. ;)
Exodus class Dropship
Type: Civilian Aerodyne
Use: Liner
Technology: Clan
Introduced: 2795
Mass: 5,000 tons
Dimensions
Length: 169 meters
Width: 104 meters
Height: 30 meters
Fuel: 112 tons (3,360 fuel points)
Tons/Burn-day: 3.37
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Heat Sinks: 15
Structural Integrity: 6
Armor
Fore: 50
Sides: 40
Aft: 30
Cargo
Bay 1: Cargo (1,004 tons) 2 doors
Escape Pods: 35
Life Boats: 35
Crew: 4 minimum (1 officers, 3 enlisted/non-rated)
Ammunition: None
Notes: Equipped with 7 tons of Standard armor.
Weapons Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat) Type Short Medium Long Extreme Class
None
Overview:
While few Clansman give Civilian Dropships much thought such designs do of course exist. In fact ships like the Exodus played an important role in the founding of the Clans. The history of this design dates back to the SLDF Exodus when several Monarchs were chosen to accompany the Great Fleet into the unknown. These passenger liners were modified to carry as many people as possible a trait which would come to define the class. None of these alterations to the Monarch were uniform and their ad hoc nature made them temporary at best.
Even with some of their creature comforts removed to make way for denizens of the Star League in Exile they were still considered luxurious. The lucky few that made their way with quarters of their own were envied by the great majority who lived for months at a time in converted cargo bays with tarps serving as walls. As Kerensky arrived in the Pentagon Worlds these vessels were overhauled to provide interplanetary travel. Finally in 2795 the design schematics were officially codified and the first Exodus was launched amid much fanfare replacing the Monarch.
Sadly the good times were not to last for the Star League in Exile as open rebellion and the death of Aleksandr Kerensky signaled a tragic end of one age. As Nicholas assembled his evacuation of the Pentagon it was the Free Guilds using these craft which provided vital transport. Relocating thousands of supporters to Strana Mechty these ships carried what would one day become the Clans to safety. For this role and the eight hundred passengers it carries the Exodus holds a special place in Clan society. They would go onto resettle the Pentagon Worlds following the Exodus Civil War, carry out the colonization of the Kerensky Cluster as well as serve in several civilian roles thereafter.
Capabilities:
Based on the Monarch which it still bares a striking resemblance to the Exodus has retained several design features. These include internal structure, armor, the Marly 750 Drive System, the fuel system, and a complete lack of armament. Save for a few high tech Clan upgrades many of these systems are identical to InnerSphere Monarchs. The differences come on the interior of the vessel which lacks the creature comforts of its Successor State counterpart. Despite this it is still considered a luxury liner among the Clans whose denizens often face journeys without quarters aboard military transports.
With four hundred and five passenger quarters the Exodus doubles the capacity of the original Monarch. However, only five of those passenger quarters can truly be considered first class with another one hundred rated as standard. The majority, three hundred some rooms, are considered steerage or about half the size of luxury rooms. The removal of extravagance along with a few improvements allows the Liner to carry just over one thousand tons of cargo. So in spite of its spartan nature this ship is a highly reliable people mover whose eight hundred person capacity is extremely significant to all Clansman.
Deployment:
All Clans have the Exodus class Liner in service with their Merchant Caste Fleets on some level. Given their civilian nature these vessels are operated by non warriors and serve as auxiliaries at best in most Clan toumans. While more than 100 of these vessels exist most are in the service of the Free Guilds who continues to produce the design. Its service in other Clans has ebbed and flowed with the movement of the civilian castes. Many were mothballed for long periods of time after the settlement of the Kerensky Cluster was complete. The invasion it would seem is witnessing another jump in service for these ships as many have been reactivated. The Ghost Bears have shown the most interest in restoring their Exodus vessels to service recently. Other Invading Clans are following this example with the Homeworld Clans generally fielding less at this point. Clan Blood Spirit currently fields two such liners for journeys between York and Arcadia which are on the decline.
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Seeker IIC class Dropship
Type: Military Spheroid
Use: Troop Carrier
Technology: Clan
Introduced: 2815
Mass: 6,700 tons
Dimensions
Length: 90.2 meters
Width: 90.2 meters
Height: 88.7 meters
Fuel: 400 tons (12,000 fuel points)
Tons/Burn-day: 1.84
Safe Thrust: 5
Maximum Thrust: 8
Heat Sinks: 117 (234)
Structural Integrity: 10
Armor
Fore: 260
Sides: 222
Aft: 200
Cargo
Bay 1: Heavy Vehicles (30) 1 door
Bay 2: Battle Armor Point/Squads (15) 1 door
Bay 3: Cargo (384.5 tons)
Escape Pods: 25
Life Boats: 25
Crew: 8 minimum (1 officer, 7 enlisted/non-rated)
Notes: Equipped with 36 tons of ferro-aluminum armor.
Weapons Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat) Type Short Medium Long Extreme Class
Nose (54 Heat)
2 ER PPCs 3 (30) 3 (30) 3 (30) - PPC
2 ER Large Lasers 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) Laser
FL/FR (108 Heat)
2 ER PPCs 3 (30) 3 (30) 3 (30) - PPC
2 ER Large Lasers 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) Laser
AL/AR (48 Heat)
2 ER Large Lasers 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) Laser
Aft (24 Heat)
2 ER Large Lasers 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) 2 (20) Laser
Overview:
Originally launched by the Terran Hegemony as a scout battalion transport the Seeker was immediately place on the Cameron Blacklist. Its Quad RanTech 720 Fusion Engines were highly reliable and capable of impressive thrust. As a result the Star League Defense Force jealously guarded the design right up till the Exodus. Naturally General Kerensky chose to include every available Seeker in his departing armada. While some were mothballed after reaching the Pentagon Worlds many remained in service with the Star League in Exile.
When Nicholas first envisioned Clan Clusters built around three Mech trinaries along with armor trinary and infantry trinary the Seeker became the perfect choice to transport these supporting elements. Ironically the Clan refit was introduced in the same year as the InnerSphere model and would continue to evolve over the years. The Seeker IIC was often used in conjunction with an Overlord IIC to effectively deploy early Clan troops into battle. While some Clans abandoned armor in favor of integral aerospace support the Blood Spirits remained faithful and continued to refine the Seeker IIC into its current shape.
Capabilities:
While the Seeker IIC has continued to develop during its lifespan many aspects of the original design remain unchanged. The outward appearance and internal structure are chief among the unaltered characteristics of the Dropship. Save for a few Clan tech upgrades the Quad RanTech Fusion Drive that gives the craft 4Gs of thrust at maximum output is almost completely untouched. Likewise the fuel tank has been slightly enlarged adding to its range but working almost the same as the first design. Some warriors find the vessel’s interior to soft preferring more Clan-like accommodations of modern ships.
Truly luxurious for the lower castes that are lucky enough to serve aboard especially in light of crew reductions. Thanks to extensive automation and streamlined systems the Seeker IIC needs only eight members in order to function. Normally transporting thirty Heavy Vehicles and seventy five Elementals its semi-modular bay system allows it to vary troops carried. This flexibility which has been improved upon from the original design inspired the Condor IIC. As a result this Dropship can easily accommodate Light Vehicles and even BattleMech crucibles with little difficulty.
Building on the long range staying power of its precursor the Seeker IIC removed any integral missile and ballistic weaponry that relied on ammunition. Six Extended Range Particle Projection Cannons and twelve Extended Range Large Lasers provide an all energy arsenal that gives the vessel unmatched staying power. The cooling system was easily adapted to handle the increased heat from weapons fire allowing for continuous use. Finally the standard armor of the earlier Seeker was exchanged for advanced Ferro-Aluminum which was maximized for superior protection.
Deployment:
The Seeker IIC has been in service with the Clans since the early twenty ninth century but only the Blood Spirits have used it faithful since this time. The other Clans methodically decommissioned them as Vehicles fell out of favor and replaced by other forces in their Touman. It was not until the late thirtieth century that the Spirits quietly began to commission new vessels to facilitate transport of their new ground forces. More recently the introduction of OmniVehicles courtesy of the Quicksilver Program has seen their use expand rapidly.
Hell’s Horses, who are widely referred to as the Vehicle Clan often derisively, were the first to reactivate their Seeker IICs. Wolf and Diamond Shark have followed their lead at a more gradually pace. Other Invading Clans like Ghost Bear and Steel Viper moved to mobilize their mothballed Seeker IICs in order to transport their Provisional Garrison Clusters in the InnerSphere. Both Ice Hellion and Star Adder are also utilizing their Dropship reserves. While the Hellions are believed to be building up their Flurry Clusters the Adders intentions are unknown at this time. Finally Kindraa Kline of the Fire Mandrill Clan has activated their sole Seeker IIC in hopes of improving their position.
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Just wanted to bump this thread for Quicksilver Dropships which I never did finish but since a few of designers have begun throwing out suggestions I thought I'd refresh this topic after I got home. Enjoy!
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Definitely need something like the Outpost, but more generic and not Hell's Horses specific
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Might have that one accounted for but I am not sure Abele. I know the Noruff is on the drawing board but soon in production here.
Let me get the file for us to talk turkey about this, hang on a few minutes.
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Okay folks I went back and looked this one up, here is the story. Much of the second post on this thread outlines the overall intent of these 15 planned designs well but the back ground draws from BattleTech Shattered Dawn and this blurb from TRO2800 on Restricted Technologies which explains why certain canon dropships have two entirely different intro dates.
Restricted Technologies
The Star League, and the Terran Hegemony before it have long had a history of banning the sale of advanced technologies to the Great Houses. This ban ranged from small components to weapons to BattleMechs, Dropships and even Warships. The Great Houses chaffed under this policy and repeatedly attempted to have it repealed, but to no avail. One of the most frustrating bans was on the sale of specific Dropship designs. The SLDF developed several innovative new designs but refused to sell them to the Great Houses, in an effort to maintain an advantage over the Inner Sphere Navies. In some cases the reasons for withholding these designs from the Great Houses is obvious. Some of the designs were assault ships, such as the Avenger, Pentagon and Titan, which far outclassed the designs used by the Great Houses. These vessels featured better maneuverability and firepower then existing designs and the SLDF was afraid that providing the InnerSphere Navies with access to the designs would enable the Houses to develop new ships that could out class those of the SLDF. Other designs, such as the Seeker, Condor, Vengeance and Colossus found themselves on the restricted list because of their transportation capacity. By keeping transports smaller, it would require more vessels to move troops. This would help ensure the Houses could never launch an effective campaign against the SLDF, as they would require so many transports that operations would become unwieldy. Only the SLDF had the ability to rapidly move large forces, ensuring they could bring their superior forces to bear during any conflict. In other cases the SLDF and Terran Hegemony sought to maintain an economic advantage over the Great Houses. The large and efficient Mammoth and Behemoth would provide Hegemony companies with an advantage over other companies forced to rely on smaller and less efficient vessels. It was this sort of action that would result in a large number of protests from the House Lords, who rightly accused the First Lord of abusing his position to benefit the Terran Hegemony at the expense of the Great Houses. With the fall of the Star League, the Great Houses started to get access to the advanced Star League dropship designs. While some companies remained loyal to the Star League and the new Terran Republic and refused to sell their ships to the Great Houses, other companies have been selling their ships as quickly as they can produce them. Perhaps most disturbing of all is the outright theft of patented technologies including some dropship designs by foreign corporations. Certain Successor Lords have encouraged this illegal behavior which has sharply increased since the fall of the League.
The reasoning that these designs are Terran (or Royal SLDF) and that the Clans would still have them but just not speak a lot about them because of their lack of combat value at least in their Trial driven system we have the appearance or reappearance of these designs.
Military Designs
These 10 military designs were created by individual Clans to fill an obvious niche
Aculeus Assault Transport
Mass: 1,900 tons
Thrust: 5/8
Carries: Three Mixed Points
Manufacturer: Goliath Scorpion
Notes: This one is already posted on the thread and is sort of a special forces lander almost. Not sure how it came out in regards to deployment of a unit. There is a fuzzy memory of something in error about the amount of troops deployed.
Fury IIC Troop Carrier
1,900 tons
4/6
Light Nova Transport (10 Light Vehicles & 25 Elementals)
Hell’s Horses
Pentagon IIC Assault Ship
4,000 tons
7/11
Naval Escort
Snow Raven
Condor IIC Troop Carrier
4,500 tons
3/5
Heavy Nova Transport (10 Heavy Vehicles & 25 Elementals)
Diamond Shark
Hector Assault Ship
4,500 tons
10/15
Faster Clan version of the Achilles
Ice Hellion
Seeker IIC Troop Carrier
6,700 tons
5/8
30 Heavy Vehicles & 75 Elementals
Blood Spirit
Notes: Obvious with frontline units sporting vehicles you need something to deploy them
Torguud Assault Transport
9,000 tons
3/5
Clan Fortress (15 Mechs, 10 Fighter, 25 Elementals)
Nova Cat
Notes: Combined arms transport meant to transport a third of the standard Clan Cluster. Part one of the Kheshig Project conducted by three Clans and the Free Guilds in order to better facilitate transport
Vengenace IIC Aerospace Carrier
11,400 tons
4/6
4 Binaries of Fighters (40 fighters)
Cloud Cobra
Khevtuul Transport
20,000 tons
5/8
Full Cluster transport based on the Lee
Steel Viper
Notes: Based on the Colossus with inspiration from the Lee (combat speed)
Carry a full Steel Viper cluster with good armor and excellent speed
50 Mechs, 15 Fighters, 75 Elementals (or 45 Mechs, 20 Fighters, 75 Elementals)
Part two of the Kheshig Project conducted by three Clans and the Free Guilds in order to better facilitate transport
Civilian Designs
This is where the Free Guilds come in (link below detailing my thoughts on them mentioned in the Jade Falcon Sourcebook) and their jump start of transport craft with Quicksilver. These six non-combatants help fill out the Clan fleet.
https://www.ourbattletech.com/forum/index.php?topic=2556.0
Exodus Liner (5,000 tons) based on the Monarch
Mule IIC Cargo Carrier (11,200 tons) deweaponized
Clydesdale Tug (15,000 tons)
Colossus IIC Cargo Carrier (20,000 tons) deweaponized
Mammoth IIC Cargo Carrier (52,000 tons)
Behemoth IIC Cargo Carrier (100,000 tons)
Need to Do!
I still have to research existing Clan dropship production which is not exclusively a Snow Raven deal.
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Re these
Exodus Liner (5,000 tons) based on the Monarch
Mule IIC Cargo Carrier (11,200 tons) deweaponized
Clydesdale Tug (15,000 tons)
Colossus IIC Cargo Carrier (20,000 tons) deweaponized
Mammoth IIC Cargo Carrier (52,000 tons)
Behemoth IIC Cargo Carrier (100,000 tons)
I'm not sure of the Clans would build such super-tanker esque ships like the Behemoth or Mammoth, the Behemoth is probably too inflexible due to her inability to land on a world, and any Behemoths in Clan service would probably instead be linked to other facilities to make orbital factories etc. The Mammoth might be around still but purely in the hands of the Free Guilds and instead of going for a Colossus IIC Freighter, how about something smaller like a Clan version of the Cargomaster/Cargoking
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Cargoking
Which they'd probably have somewhere on records. It can carry more than the Mule, has less crew and is a more modern and better laid out design and the Clans (apparently) love their efficiency so this might make sense. The Mule would also be around and I could see some changes, again de-weaponized and given over to the Free Guilds but even de-weaponized you're only adding a few score of tons to the cargo space (40 tons worth of weapons and you could strip out more heatsinks to add a bit more and upgrade the hull plating to Ferro-Aluminium) at most.
The need for a Tug is a definate thing, base it on the Elephant as this would be the one the Clans have in their database but don't make her also the combined arms transport that the 'phant was. These would be somewhat armed, and I would assume that they would be attached to any surviving YardShips the Clans have (IIRC the Lum Yard was built around a pair of Newgrange class YardShips).
The idea of an Exodus Liner makes sense, basically its a ship built to carry large numbers of Lower caste from system to system. This would be ideal in a situation where the Clans were willing to expand their territories (like the worlds they found on the exodus road etc) but here they would just be used as personnel transports, probably rather rare though and basic in the extreme, little more than a cattle cart.
I did a quick and Dirty Mammoth IIC without any armament and using Ferro-Aluminium, SI and everything else is identical to the Mammoth and she's got a cargo capacity of 38,652 tons vs the standard Mammoths 37,248.5 tons of cargo, so an increase of 1,403.5 tons. I was tempted to put another small craft in there but left it as 4.
really this ship would probably be the upper end of the Clans cargo ships, and the exclusive property of the Free Guilds with those in Clan service probably being rare or sitting on the ground and converted into something like housing or a production plant or something (the Horses did this OTL when they moved into the Inner Sphere making 'tent cities' of landed DropShips clustered together with various craft converted into different roles, housing production etc).
Mammoth IIC Dropship
Base Tech Level: Standard (Clan)
Level Era
-------------------
Experimental -
Advanced -
Standard 3145+
Tech Rating: D/X-X-X-D
Weight: 52000 tons
BV: 885
Cost: 415,063,040 C-bills
Movement: 3/5
Heat Sinks: 15 [30]
Fuel Points: 0/4200 (420.0 tons)
Tons Per Burn Day: 1.84
Structural Integrity: 20
Armor: 338 (Ferro-Aluminum)
Armor
-------------------
Nose 101
Left Side 85
Right Side 85
Aft 67
Carrying Capacity
-----------------
Small Craft (1 door) - 4 units (2 recovery open)
Cargo Space (3 doors) - 19,326 tons
Cargo Space (3 doors) - 19,326 tons
Crew
----------------------
Officers 0
Enlisted/Non-rated 15
Gunners 0
Bay Personnel 20
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Who or what are free guilds smells like bandit caste or society to me
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Who or what are free guilds smells like bandit caste or society to me
TLDR - A mix of lower castes, Scientists, Merchants, Labourers etc that serve ALL the Clans not just one Clan but rather serve their society as a whole.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Free_Guilds
Also one of the big prizes of the ilClanship
During the Grand Kurultai's discussions for the invasion of the Inner Sphere, Elias Crichell of the Jade Falcon Clan suggested that whichever Clan conquered Terra would also take control of the Free Guilds. This would provide the victorious "ilClan" with unprecedented resources and manpower. His proposal was accepted enthusiastically by every Clan involved.[1]
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Thanks i first looked at main forums to see what I could find
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=16102.msg369030#msg369030 (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=16102.msg369030#msg369030)
Guess they were forgotten and retconned out
Saw taks old post about them there as well
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Thanks for the thoughts marauder648. Hope to hear more input from everyone regarding these designs. I will get back to posting more specifics after judging the Hell Cat contest later today hopefully but for now some specific responses on your comments.
I'm not sure of the Clans would build such super-tanker esque ships like the Behemoth or Mammoth, the Behemoth is probably too inflexible due to her inability to land on a world, and any Behemoths in Clan service would probably instead be linked to other facilities to make orbital factories etc. The Mammoth might be around still but purely in the hands of the Free Guilds and instead of going for a Colossus IIC Freighter, how about something smaller like a Clan version of the Cargomaster/Cargoking
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Cargoking
Which they'd probably have somewhere on records.
I figured the Behemoth IIC would still be useful to the Free Guilds, Ghost Bear (for their asteroid mining operations), Snow Raven (naval operations), and perhaps Diamond Shark (commerce). There are other small mentions of Clan space industry like the Burrock/Star Adder settlement of Krakau in the Paxon system but these seem the exception and not the rule. However I was thinking that these giant space bound craft would be almost uniquely Free Guild in nature given their space bound nature in my vision. They would be useful to the Invading Clans and an enhanced logistical system after the Quicksilver Program.
The Mammoth IIC would be more Clan style given its interplanetary capability and probably the largest craft most Merchant Caste possess other than jumpships of course.
I went with the Colossus IIC Freighter over the Cargomaster/CargoKing for two reasons. One and perhaps the biggest is the likely existing presence of the Colossus on the original Exodus. Two, the Colossus design could be militarized by the Clans for use as a major Transport as it was originally. However I am open to your opinions.
It can carry more than the Mule, has less crew and is a more modern and better laid out design and the Clans (apparently) love their efficiency so this might make sense. The Mule would also be around and I could see some changes, again de-weaponized and given over to the Free Guilds but even de-weaponized you're only adding a few score of tons to the cargo space (40 tons worth of weapons and you could strip out more heatsinks to add a bit more and upgrade the hull plating to Ferro-Aluminium) at most.
I do agree and have the Mule IIC down in Heavy Metal Aero. Just have to post it. Basically it is the normal Merchant Caste transport not only for the Guild but the rest of the Clans as well.
The need for a Tug is a definate thing, base it on the Elephant as this would be the one the Clans have in their database but don't make her also the combined arms transport that the 'phant was. These would be somewhat armed, and I would assume that they would be attached to any surviving YardShips the Clans have (IIRC the Lum Yard was built around a pair of Newgrange class YardShips).
I would think that the Exodus would have included some Tug Dropships as well as a few Newgranges. The Clydesdale Tug (15,000 tons) is just a deweaponized build based on these Tugs that the Free Guild uses extensively and perhaps other merchant castes. IIC Tugs may also be around and part of Clan fleets like Snow with weapons perhaps as part of a Coast Guard Solahma force.
I didn't know the Lum Yard was built around a pair of Newgranges, could you please cite that info marauder648. I was think that the Guild might have at least one of these vessels still mobile and deweaponized of course for use but again and am opened to opinions.
The idea of an Exodus Liner makes sense, basically its a ship built to carry large numbers of Lower caste from system to system. This would be ideal in a situation where the Clans were willing to expand their territories (like the worlds they found on the exodus road etc) but here they would just be used as personnel transports, probably rather rare though and basic in the extreme, little more than a cattle cart.
Thanks, yes this one I completed and you can see on this thread. It is hardly a luxury liner, very spartan people mover.
I did a quick and Dirty Mammoth IIC without any armament and using Ferro-Aluminium, SI and everything else is identical to the Mammoth and she's got a cargo capacity of 38,652 tons vs the standard Mammoths 37,248.5 tons of cargo, so an increase of 1,403.5 tons. I was tempted to put another small craft in there but left it as 4.
really this ship would probably be the upper end of the Clans cargo ships, and the exclusive property of the Free Guilds with those in Clan service probably being rare or sitting on the ground and converted into something like housing or a production plant or something (the Horses did this OTL when they moved into the Inner Sphere making 'tent cities' of landed DropShips clustered together with various craft converted into different roles, housing production etc).
Yeah I have the Mammoth IIC on HMA just have to detail it.
Who or what are free guilds smells like bandit caste or society to me
Thanks marauder648 for the known canon info on the Free Guilds. The long and short for the Free Guilds, since some do not use links, is they are basically Spacers according to my vision. With the blurbs indicating known facts from the Jade Falcon Sourcebook and Clans Warriors of Kerensky I extrapolated that the Guild were like Belters mentioned in Interstellar Player 2 (link below).
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Jihad_Conspiracies:_Interstellar_Players_2
Leaving on the original Exodus (a long trip and so some may have become accustomed to life in space while others could indeed be Belters who left with Kerensky) these citizens of the stars settled among the Pentagon Worlds and Strana Mechty much like the terrestrial bound denizens we have heard so much about. During the Second Exodus they helped Nicholas Kerensky escape the growing chaos among the Pentagon thanks to their natural space lift capabilities. They provided his followers and their equipment who would become the Clans with ample means of rapid escape from the disintegration. For this Nicholas allowed them to remain 'free' of the terrestrial bound Clans but they would be required to adopt his ways. Essentially becoming a Clan without warriors whose space bound populace is divided into four castes policed by Guild Keshik which is essentially a Solahma force drawn from all the Clans. The Guild Council is made up of their four Caste Leaders and is essentially their Clan Council while the Guildmaster is essentially their Khan. Aloof and confined to the Strana Mechty system where they are closely monitored by all the Clans they have thrived much like the Terran Belters in Interstellar Players 2.
I still have to figure their exact population but I imagine it is smaller than any Clan. However in my universe with Quicksilver they become more of a precence than in canon where they were forgotten about and usually explained away as an error. I could simply write them off in the Society Rebellion as perhaps these rogue scientists were present and the Clans overreacted in the way they actually did effectively annihilating the Guilds and absorbing them once and for all into Clan society. Refusing to mention them ever again for their percieved participation in the would be revolution where they were used by the Society to further their own goals. The Clan crackdown was brutal in canon resulting in the death of most of the scientist caste in the homeworlds even though they didn't directly have anything to do with the Society. So very plausibly again the Guild was a victim of this backlash never to be mentioned again.
Anyway here for me they are part of my vision for the Clans and their ships/equipment are not weaponized (forbidden from carrying weapons whatsoever) as they are strictly civilians.
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I could see the Behemoth IIC being converted into orbital facilities and the like, ore processing plants, refuelling points for ships mining asteroids as well as acting as living quarters for asteroid miners. Smack to of them together, give them a spin and you've got a reasonable space station if you wanted to make a quick orbital habitat (have them nose on, put some linkage between them, give them a spin and convert the interior and done. Because the Behemoth is so big its really limited in what it can do and with their population and way of 'trade' for the most part "They have that..I want it" *SOUNDS OF GUNFIRE * "Mine now!" Such a specialized craft wouldn't really be needed as she's just too specalized for the Clans to use. Sure use them in other roles, build an Endo-steel factory into one. But in the Clans there's no need for the Seawise Giant
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seawise_Giant
So instead they use her as she was used, as an oil pontoon, basically not her original role, you could use them as orbital transfer points, the basis for a factory etc. If they are used as freighters then they would be the property of the Free Guilds and ONLY them, with an agreement on all Clans not to do any Trials of Possession for such massive ships as they are a strategic CLAN resource.
If the Clans are kind of like a mixture of Belters and a kind of OmniCaste then they'd probably have the few Behemoths in service that the Clans have, the rest having been scrapped or turned into something 'more useful' by the Clans.
RE Lum's yards being built around a Newgrange or two, IIRC I saw that in DragonCat's time line so i've no idea if its canon or not but to built a yard on the scale of Lum with multiple slips etc you'd probably use a Newgrange as a good starting point and then build up around her with her acting as a drydock and command centre.
i'd say the Ravens would definately have tugs, they'd need them for the Lum yards, other naval clans would probably have a few Stars of them but the ravens would have the most, probably some in an armed configuration too.
I'd say that the Mammoth IIC or what ever it gets renamed as would be the largest 'common' heavy freighter in service with the Clans and have the Cargoking IIC (give it a more suitable name) as their more standard freighter.
And I like the idea of turning the Free Guild into the Clan equivalent of Belters.
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If they are used as freighters then they would be the property of the Free Guilds and ONLY them, with an agreement on all Clans not to do any Trials of Possession for such massive ships as they are a strategic CLAN resource.
If the Clans are kind of like a mixture of Belters and a kind of OmniCaste then they'd probably have the few Behemoths in service that the Clans have, the rest having been scrapped or turned into something 'more useful' by the Clans.
I always figured that the Clans are so different from the Free Guilds in so many ways (aloof attitude, no warriors, long lived, space based rather than planet bound) that much of what the Guild possesses is simply overlooked by the Clans but I could see Nicholas decreeing that their property is a strategic resource belonging to the Clans as a whole. This makes a large degree of sense but I still see the Guild as being confined to the Strana Mechty system which is the property of all the Clans. Venturing outside this area could very well bring them into conflict with a Clan or two. I am still writing their history if you'd like to help I could use a hand.
RE Lum's yards being built around a Newgrange or two, IIRC I saw that in DragonCat's time line so i've no idea if its canon or not but to built a yard on the scale of Lum with multiple slips etc you'd probably use a Newgrange as a good starting point and then build up around her with her acting as a drydock and command centre.
i'd say the Ravens would definately have tugs, they'd need them for the Lum yards, other naval clans would probably have a few Stars of them but the ravens would have the most, probably some in an armed configuration too.
How many Newgranges do you think accompanied the Exodus?
As I said I was planning on having a couple of Newgranges with the Free Guilds, disarmed of course but do you think that makes sense or is a good idea?
I still have to go over large space facilities of the Clans but your right they'd probably have a few Tugs - so I geuss whatever that design would be would just be disarmed if the Guilds possessed them.
I'd say that the Mammoth IIC or what ever it gets renamed as would be the largest 'common' heavy freighter in service with the Clans and have the Cargoking IIC (give it a more suitable name) as their more standard freighter.
So you don't like the Colossus idea? The CargoKhan obviously for the Clans but seriously would they even have the design on hand? None left on the Exodus, right?
I'd say the Mule IIC is the most common frieghter with the Mammoth IIC being the largest used by the Clan merchant caste. This way we could keep the Behemoth IIC as a Free Guild asset almost exclusively.
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I doubt Lum is Newgranges its stated thats its the only shipyard capable of producing warships consistently. That sounds more permanent. Plus it made the Nightlord way to huge a vessel for them. Clans definitely have some but i wouldn't think a clan would allow such a valuable resource to not be controlled by a clan. Some are starving for resources to maintain existing ships as it is
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I doubt Lum is Newgranges its stated thats its the only shipyard capable of producing warships consistently. That sounds more permanent. Plus it made the Nightlord way to huge a vessel for them. Clans definitely have some but i wouldn't think a clan would allow such a valuable resource to not be controlled by a clan. Some are starving for resources to maintain existing ships as it is
Well if you read Operation Klondike there are many spacer cultures which spring up around the Pentagon Worlds after Nicholas departs and they frequently put ships together creating permanent stations as centers of life among the stars. Fasa would be the single biggest settlement example I can think of, read up on the Pentagon Run in Operation Klondike it details these accommodations.
I think you are confusing Faslane Yardships with the Newgrange Yardship as well. Newgranges were a retcon addition which make even less sense given the small number of warship stance taken by TPTB. They are larger than a McKenna and capable of docking one for repair.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Newgrange
200 were built during the Star League era but only 45 remained after the Amaris Coup and Kerensky's Exodus. Since the SLDF took the largest warship fleet with them I could certainly imagine up to fifty departing with the General. Still leave 100 plus to get destroyed during the Coup or lost to other phenomenon.
But you are right perhaps they are too valuable for the Free Guilds, then again if we say they are the strategic reserve fleet of the Clans maybe. But if you were Snow Raven would you trust them not to lose control of these assets to others??
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What I mean is they used a Newgrage as the core, the starting point. and they built the station and yard up around it, using a decommissioned Newgrange as the starting point to built the Lum yards.
Imagine if they had started with the Newgrange and then built up and around her to add dry and 'wet' docks, as well as other facilities etc, but it all started with the central core of the newgrange that's probably buried under the changes made and the yard that's built around her save her drydock and her command and control facilities/reactors.
If Lum was something like this
(https://pre00.deviantart.net/6a32/th/pre/i/2017/157/f/e/battletech___peterson_class_naval_base_by_sharlin-dbbu6n8.jpg)
Then the Newgrage would be like the central core or one of the side arms or something. That's how I kinda picture it anyhow, she's not the main yard, but the Ravens built the yards up around her.
We don't know what the Lum yards looked like (or something like the Titan yards which were bigger) but it could be something like Scorpion yards from BSG
(https://obtforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffantastic-plastic.com%2Fuploads%2F3%2F5%2F5%2F3%2F35539432%2F7865822_orig.jpg&hash=4491e85e6e80d26824ce0e23b5c79835d2b09b24)
With them being a huge sprawling thing built up and out, and buried somewhere in there could be a Newgrange or two they built the yards up and around.
And I like your idea for the Free Guilds, confined by law to have no 'military' equipment, and confined within the SM System although you can bet that their facilities have some weapons, they don't want any Bandits to try anything. But then again to try anything in Strana Mechty would probably be suicidal. If they do venture out of the SM system its ONLY at the behest and 'request' (really an order) of the IlKhan which they can turn down at the risk of irking the IlKhan and so no ilKhan since Nickyboy has done so.
So instead they can 'loan' their ships out to a Clan, and its up to that Clan to escort and protect them from any Trial, because if they are lost, even in a Trial, then the Guilders will expect to be repaid in kind "You lost two Mules, you will give us two Mules." kind of thing.
We don't know how many Newgranges escaped with Kerensky, but with 200 built and 45 left in the Inner Sphere, I'd say there was probably at least 60 - 80 of them who went with the General. Now how many of them survived the Pentagon civil war is questionable, but probably not that many until Special K came along with the Clans and brought 'order'. But the Civil war was unkind to these hugs ships, that probably would have found new use as converted orbital habitats and the like rather than repairing warships. So say at best 20 survived, with say...6 - 8 under the Guilds either over Strana Mechty itself or in system, the rest divvied out to the clans where they were either put to use or mothballed.
Also I find it impossible that there's no other type of Yardship so if there was any other class, there might be some of those still around that did survive would probably be smaller and less capable than a Newgrange class and thus might find use with less naval minded Clans.
RE Colossus and CargoKhan, the Colossus is a military dropship and not many survived the fighting in the Pentagon Civil war, but why would you need so huge a transport dropship when you've got mules etc. The Cargoking was brand new at the end of the Star League and the Clans probably have its plans somewhere, it was built for the SLDF so someone's probably got the plans.
With regards to who actually 'owns' the surviving Newgranges, I'd say that some are spread amongst the Clans.
Ravens - 1 used to kickstart the Lum yard, another in service or mothballs as a standard vessel
Star Adder - 1 ship
Wolves - 1 ship in Mothballs as Kerensky's chosen and faves they get a shiny toy that is now in orbit round a distant star slowly gathering dust.
Sharks have one, Bears one etc etc
but the majority of them would be in the Strana Mechty system for use by ALL the Clans as neutral ground, probably overseen by the Ebon Keshik who will crack down HARD on any Warriors doing shenanigans aboard them because they are neutral ground and no fighting is allowed. One such ship in a disarmed and coreless state could even operate as the Free Guilds 'Capital' so to speak.
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Really anxious to keep this conversation going but still working on the Hell Cat review. ;) Sorry about my lack of responses today on this great topic.
What I mean is they used a Newgrage as the core, the starting point. and they built the station and yard up around it, using a decommissioned Newgrange as the starting point to built the Lum yards.
Imagine if they had started with the Newgrange and then built up and around her to add dry and 'wet' docks, as well as other facilities etc, but it all started with the central core of the newgrange that's probably buried under the changes made and the yard that's built around her save her drydock and her command and control facilities/reactors.
If Lum was something like this
Then the Newgrage would be like the central core or one of the side arms or something. That's how I kinda picture it anyhow, she's not the main yard, but the Ravens built the yards up around her.
We don't know what the Lum yards looked like (or something like the Titan yards which were bigger) but it could be something like Scorpion yards from BSG
With them being a huge sprawling thing built up and out, and buried somewhere in there could be a Newgrange or two they built the yards up and around.
You could very well be right. Nice visuals BTW, let me ask you a question concerning the Newgranges. Do you think General Kerensky like Cortez burned these ships to prevent his army from returning piecemeal or otherwise? I mean these ships could have well been used to kick start space industry around the Pentagon Worlds and one or two could resupply a small fleet. So controlling or destroying them is a powerful message saying we are here and going no where else.
The Clans would also likely be strict about these vessels as they give a powerful leg up to any Clan who wishes to use them. Also an interesting blurb I've been thinking about from the Mongoose Absorption during which the Smoke Jaguar fleet was badly hurt. The Grand Council allowed them to dip back into Naval Caches in order to restore their ships after losing a McKenna. Interesting as it means the Council tightly controls mothballed ships which are still out there and could it be the Newgranges were mandatorily on that list.
Also do you think Snow Raven seized most of them to build the Lum Yards and monopolize naval operations?
And I like your idea for the Free Guilds, confined by law to have no 'military' equipment, and confined within the SM System although you can bet that their facilities have some weapons, they don't want any Bandits to try anything. But then again to try anything in Strana Mechty would probably be suicidal. If they do venture out of the SM system its ONLY at the behest and 'request' (really an order) of the IlKhan which they can turn down at the risk of irking the IlKhan and so no ilKhan since Nickyboy has done so.
So instead they can 'loan' their ships out to a Clan, and its up to that Clan to escort and protect them from any Trial, because if they are lost, even in a Trial, then the Guilders will expect to be repaid in kind "You lost two Mules, you will give us two Mules." kind of thing.
Great thoughts and it sounds like the kind of business dealings the Guild would be involved in after the canon Falcon blurb. If they do have weaponry it would be under the control of the Guild Keshik.
I wonder if most of the Free Guilds is composed of Merchants rather than Laborers like the Clans? Would fit their name as well. Maybe, maybe not.
We don't know how many Newgranges escaped with Kerensky, but with 200 built and 45 left in the Inner Sphere, I'd say there was probably at least 60 - 80 of them who went with the General. Now how many of them survived the Pentagon civil war is questionable, but probably not that many until Special K came along with the Clans and brought 'order'. But the Civil war was unkind to these hugs ships, that probably would have found new use as converted orbital habitats and the like rather than repairing warships. So say at best 20 survived, with say...6 - 8 under the Guilds either over Strana Mechty itself or in system, the rest divvied out to the clans where they were either put to use or mothballed.
Also I find it impossible that there's no other type of Yardship so if there was any other class, there might be some of those still around that did survive would probably be smaller and less capable than a Newgrange class and thus might find use with less naval minded Clans.
Actually Irose and I have a warship count of the Exodus fleet some where. We know that the total Exodus Fleet number around 400 warships, I will check the exact numbers but that would reduce the amount of Newgranges with the SLDF unless you say they aren't warships. An argument can be made. I am going to look it up when I get a chance. Should add to the discussion.
RE Colossus and CargoKhan, the Colossus is a military dropship and not many survived the fighting in the Pentagon Civil war, but why would you need so huge a transport dropship when you've got mules etc. The Cargoking was brand new at the end of the Star League and the Clans probably have its plans somewhere, it was built for the SLDF so someone's probably got the plans.
Yeah I think I will drop the Colossus Freighter from my plans but I am still not sure we need the 'CargoKhan'. If it does get built it would likely be brand new.
With regards to who actually 'owns' the surviving Newgranges, I'd say that some are spread amongst the Clans.
Ravens - 1 used to kickstart the Lum yard, another in service or mothballs as a standard vessel
Star Adder - 1 ship
Wolves - 1 ship in Mothballs as Kerensky's chosen and faves they get a shiny toy that is now in orbit round a distant star slowly gathering dust.
Sharks have one, Bears one etc etc
Wouldn't we have already have seen these ships if the Clans actually had access to them already? One for each Clan is kind of fair but I just don't see any here. Do the Clans have any by Operation Revival??
but the majority of them would be in the Strana Mechty system for use by ALL the Clans as neutral ground, probably overseen by the Ebon Keshik who will crack down HARD on any Warriors doing shenanigans aboard them because they are neutral ground and no fighting is allowed. One such ship in a disarmed and coreless state could even operate as the Free Guilds 'Capital' so to speak.
Here is where I agree with you. An attack upon the Guilds is an attack upon the Clans as a whole. Perhaps we can add an incident to their history which would reinforce/illustrate this point. Doesn't have to involve any Newgranges just an attack upon the Guild which is responded to with brutality by the Clans.
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RE the fate of Newgranges - I think these would not be 'burned' but instead would have been a pretty darn vital part of the initial colonization of the Kerensky cluster. Along with the Potemkin class, they would have acted like cities in space and i'd not be surprised if a few lost the ability to take ships into a drydock and had that massive internal volume converted into quarters for civilians that were working on the worlds of the Cluster to make the first settlements. You can 'burn' them by removing their jump core, if only to free up more hull space and weight, then have them able to pootle around a system as a mobile arcologies for people to live on. But these massive leviathans would have suffered in the Civil War and most would probably be destroyed.
So lets go with a nice round number for surviving examples of the Newgrange class with the Clans.
12
Special K takes one or two with him on Exodus II Electric Boogaloo and the rest are either taken as prizes during KLONDIKE or found in storage that kept them out of the fighting as they simply were not found.
Lets say that several were in poor condition and basically were scuttled or broken up to maintain the others, so lets do that to 3 of them, leaving us with 9.
2 are permanently stationed in the Strana Mechty system, not under the auspices of the Free Guild but are there for use for all Clans, but are largely immobile, their jump drives removed and the space freed up converted into production facilities for endo steel or something. These are how the Free Guilds carry out their trade with the Clans, they are basically a free-port, where the Ebon Keshik's word is law, and all Clans are welcome to trade and bargain and any conflict is very quickly put down.
1 is given to the Free Guilds (perhaps one they always had) and whilst she has her engines and jump drive she's now the 'Capital' of the Free Guilds, the centre from which their leadership can run and coordinate everything (which makes sense as they are a space faring lot and a home of no fixed abode kinda makes sense).
1 is claimed/captured by the Ravens and its from this ship they build the Lum yards around her with her having been one of the few types that had their drives stripped out and survived the Exodus civil war as an arcology in the Lum system. She's brought into orbit and turned into a yard and gets built up and around with the ship buried in there like the Lukyasanka from Star Wars. The Ravens also have another Newgrage either won or given to them and its a darn important thing for the Naval Clan.
The remaining 4 are divvied out amongst the clans, the Wolves get 1 as Special K's favorite and the others are spread out (Bears get one because Camper Clan?). There might be another one or two lurking in naval caches but these are seen as a strategic reserve for the Clans as a whole and thus no one Clan has claim to them.
One thing I've always point blank refused to accept is that the SLDF's logistics train was done PURELY by Jumpships and Dropships, I know I think too much in terms of a 'wet' navy but the SLDF would probably have something like the space going equivalent of an AOR - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replenishment_oiler
Which is why I commissioned something like this
(https://i.imgur.com/M5fQDBI.jpg)
and she's basically a military freighter with liquid cargo, fuel, food, water, ammuniton, spare parts as well as big grav-deck for crews to get some decent G positive time instead of being on 'dishwasher' grav decks or on the DD's that had no grav-decks.
I also had this commissioned
(https://i.imgur.com/jl0grzG.jpg)
,
And she's basically an early kind of YardShip based on the Farragut class and isn't anywhere near as capable as the Newgrange but its a stepping stone towards that class and design. And mayhaps if there's equivalents like this in the SLDFs service that they'd either be divvied out amongst the Clans or again under the auspices of the Free Guild.
And an idea.
If the Free Guild does send ships out system they are basically under a 'no attack order', so you can't get an enterprizing Star Admiral declare a Trial of Possession for them because said Star Admiral will probably have to be killed by their Khan to stop the other Clans from going REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!! over the incident.
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I wouldn't think free guild is mostly merchants id say technicians. Currency is strictly controlled in clans if it was a free society it would make sense but not for clans.
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Yeah, Technicians with a smaller labourer caste and some Scientists but mostly Technicians.
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And no way did kerensky pull a cortez or hed have scrapped his entire fleet not a few repair ships.
I thnk most of them survived initially but were mostly converted later into permanent or semipermanent shipyards.
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Well just lost a big section of typing here, damn it!
To sum up Newgrange's and their fate is a topic we should continue elsewhere. I feel that there are very few if any left probably in the hands of the Guild as a strategic resource to the Clans as a whole. Most likely went to establish a thriving space industry over the Pentagon which was likely slagged during the two decade Civil War there.
The Wolverine raid of the Norfolk boneyard also got me thinking that the Grand Council might entrust the mothball fleet to the Guild as a strategic resource for safekeeping. Not wanting to repeat the theft of some many warships by a Clan in the future and perhaps these vessels are deweaponized as well.
I get the sense too the Grand Council when they remember to are the ones who set policy for the Guild when they care to when the ilKhan isn't around which is most time. Of course the Loremaster of the Clans would have day to day authority if need be to reslove a situation.
Off topic again on tenders, again I agree with you on this. If you look at TRO2800 for Shattered Dawn we had Tenders (the Vulcan) as well as Hospital Ships (the Mercy) and a Tanker (the Catalyst) in addition to the Newgrange as service vessels for the SLDF.
Still have to look up our design numbers.
Back to the topic of Quicksilver Dropships I am working on the Keshig Project still whose objective was to build combined arms carriers for an entire Cluster and a third of a Cluster (Fortress like). However design creep and the Clans involved are giving me a bit of a problem. Here is some fluff from the Torguud
'While largely successful Operation Revival revealed certain weakness in Clan operations which ultimately led to defeat on Tukayyid. Nova Cat in particular realized that failure to upgrade their Dropship fleet could endanger their very existence. Often inserting their forces via “hot drops†created a distinct tactical advantage but left them vulnerable to enemy fighters. With the aerospace assets of the InnerSphere proving to be a highly competitive element the goal of creating an improved combined arms transport seemed to be a sensible investment of resources. With this objective in mind the Nova Cats together with Clan Steel Viper began the Keshig Project in June 3052. This was a variation of the ancient Mongolian Imperial Guard which many Clans had modeled their own bodyguard units on.'
Running out of time but what dropship areas do you think the Clans need to address after Tukayyid and how can the Free Guilds help??
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Assault for sure the attacks on their dropships has some worried upgrade what star league ones that remain and possibly building new.
Are you going to do config changes to aerospace fighters? I think some might need changes like allowed for summoner as they reevaluate fighter tactics. (Meaning altering armor heat sinks)
Passenger ship Ghost Bear possibly for transportation to Is, working on something that may help address this
Mining/construction i mean how does Ghost bear have an edge in asteroid mining perhaps a cousin of Elephant
Colony ship??
Space variant of an AWACS or a command and control ship.
Dropships version of a bugeye perhaps
Was your hospital ship a dropship or warship, i dont think you ever showed me TRO 2800
I can see warships getting greater thought which is reason did the Sabrewing possibly even a frigate as well for galaxy deployment with heavy emphasis on antiaircraft. Clans need to get over turtle bay issues. Use them just dont target civies they have got to hear the rumors the houses are starting to get them now as well
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Also went with Dropships as a Steel Viper thing to account for their ownership of numerous dropship yards on Marshall and other places. Thought it could balance their naval disadvantage to Snow Raven with additional craft including the Noruff. Still have to compile a list of dropship facilities.
Let me see if the link for TRO 2800 is still available on this website.
It looks like it bud, bottom of the page under Shattered Dawn.
https://www.ourbattletech.com/downloads/
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For the DropShip changes we need to layout what the drivers are for these changes and what the Clans would see as being needed to fix the problems they had.
For the Clans, the almost uniform problem (to a greater or lesser degree depending on the Clan) when taking part in REVIVAL was logistics. As they didn't bring any factories forwards or even establish some supply points nearer the Inner Sphere, the Clans were operating on a supply chain roughly a year long and the Clans as a generalized whole seem to have about as good a grasp of Logistics as the Germans did during Operation Barbarossa (IE not much at best).
The problem is that OTL the Clans have a VERY messed up DropShip fleet and is built as follows.
2 x Small raiding craft (Broadsword and Confederate) both of which have small cargo bays, no Elementals, and can only carry a Star of Mechs.
1 x Assault DropShip that is starting to enter production - Noruff.
1 x Dedicated infantry transport - Sassanid
1 x 'Standard' Mech carrier - Union-C but it carries no Elementals and carries a Trinary of Mechs.
1 x ASF carrier - Carrier - But it only carries 1 Star of Fighters (10)
1 x 'Combined arms' transport that can't carry vehicles and carries standard infantry in addition to 2 stars of Mechs - Lion
2 x Heavy carriers - Titan and Miraborg with the Miraborg being far better armed and more useful
1 x Heavy Mech carrier - Overlord-C, but again it lacks Elementals and carries a full Cluster of Mechs
The Clans for the most part do actually operate on a Combined arms aspect, with the close integration of Mechs and Elementals into their battle plans but there's NO combined arms transport for the two. Instead you have to bring another dropper along to carry the Elementals whilst one carries the Mechs. Logistically this causes problems. You're using two dropships, with two crews and twice the fuel consumption to bring your Mechs and Elementals to a battle and whilst the bidding process might well mean you don't 'need' the Elementals or some Mechs and can bring Elementals instead, you've still not got the facilities on 90% of your DropShips for Elementals and going off the rules for what they can carry you HAVE to bring a Sassanid along with you regardless.
Miraborgs are brand new, barely 2 years old at this point and only produced by the Jaguars and they carry as many fighters as a Titan, have the same speed and are far better armed. The only advantage the Titan has is its armour and cargo capacity but the Miraborg is a far superior ship purely in terms of firepower.
We don't know what cargo haulers the Clans use but we can assume they have Mules etc but we can IIC them or make the CargoKhan as was suggested.
But what I feel is needed is a series of true combined arms transports. The Clans have large jumpship fleets but reducing the number of Dropships to have a lesser number of larger and more capable dropships would help because then you don't need to bring 2 - 4 Dropships along to an attack.
because Lets be honest, a world isn't going to be threatened by a Confederate and a Carrier, a better defended world could require multiple Overlord and Union-C's and then you NEED to bring a Titan along otherwise you're going to be taking up precious docking collar space by having to spam Carrier's to match the carrying capacity of a Titan. And who's to say that 30 fighters is enough? It might well not be.
Sarna says ‘an average Cluster is two OmniMech Trinaries, an Elemental Binary, an OmniFighter Binary and either a mixed Trinary or a Supernova Trinary’
So that’s 2 x Union Cs, 1 x Sassanid, 2 x Carriers, and you might in theory need another Union-C for the ‘Supernova Trinary’. This is a lot of ships and fuel, sure you can reduce that to a Overlord-C, 1 x Sassanid and 2 x Carriers but this then places all your Mech’s in a big egg shaped target and even then you’ve got to land them all together, have the Sassanid come down with the Unions or Overlord and this complicates things because there’s no way to ensure this happens. The landing zone could be contested, hostile ASF’s might force one to divert etc and it throws your landing out of whack.
So, what’s needed is to bring the Mech’s and infantry together. And this means going for Nova’s as a standard unit, or at least allowing for their use without having to rely on hauling a 3000 ton dropship around.
So my recommendation is the following
1 – Produce a ‘streched’ Broadsword that carries a Star of Mechs and up to a Star of Elementals
2 – Retire the Confederate and either scrap them or convert them to other roles, you don’t need two dropships the same size with the same small carrying capacity.
3 – Produce a Assault DropShip, the Spheroids have them, the history of the SLDF showed that Assault DropShips are useful (reunification war, Amaris war, Kerensky Cluster civil war, Klondike etc)
4 – Produce a Stretched Union C as your standard Mech carrier, allow it to carry its trinary of Mechs or covert it to a Nova so its got a trinary of Elementals aboard as well.
5 – Get the Jaguars to share the Miragborg design and produce in larger numbers, the Carrier is adequate at best for small unit actions but nothing more.
6 – Produce a true combined arms dropship. This would be a larger vessel but it can bring at least a Trinary of Mechs to the party along with their own Elemental support and at least a Star of Fighters as well.
7- Replace the Lion, she’s really of little use, but could be used as a frame for Augmented Nova carrier (2 stars BA and Mech)
8 – The Overlord C needs to be able to carry Elementals as well as Mechs but it needs to be replaced with…
9 – Design a new large transport, A Colossus IIC that can bring a Clusters worth of Mechs with Elementals and Air support and this is to become your ‘standard’ heavy transport, slowly relegating the Overlord C to secondary roles.
10 – Reduce the Titans engine size to 4/6, modernize her weapons and see if you can cram more fighters onboard, that the Clans lack an equivalent of a Vengeance class is a serious oversight.
By using fewer but larger, more capable transports instead of many reduces fuel consumption, reduces crew requirements and frees up collars for other craft.
As an example of this, lets go back to our ‘typical’ Trinary and assume 3 x Union C, 2 x Carrier 1 x Sassanid. This is 266 crew spread across 6 DropShips, each of which need fuel and supplies and the more small ships you have, the bigger the drain this is going to be as you’d have to supply fuel for more craft, requiring more dropships carrying fuel which requires more dropships and so on.
Whilst the savings in crew and food for them will at best be minimal if you was to use a single large dropship vs multiple smaller ones, the big saving comes in fuel.
But the greatest advantage is that you bring down your forces together in a single space and can deploy them from a single point. There’s no risk of getting separated or forced apart due to hostile action, weather or lack of suitable landing zones. There’s also the advantage of security, a single dropship does not require so large a security perimeter whilst command and control is all there on the single larger vessel rather than spread out and this is the same for repair and resupply facilities.
The TLDR is that the Clans need smaller numbers of larger dropships, that way is more efficient, they need assault dropships as well and with the Spheroids starting to re-introduce WarShips, this means that the Clans can shrug off Edo Bay as an aberration and look forwards to fighting in space against a ‘real’ opponent. And such large ships with their simply gargantuan cargo facilities make useful logistics hubs too.
Sorry for the stream of thought/conciousness!
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Now that is a f-cking post baby!
I love it, largely combined arms was the objective of the Keshig Project but I ran headlong into differing Clan organizational styles when attempting it.
Steel Viper who has large dropship facilities and is well on their way to deploying the Noruff was a likely candidate for me but they have such odd organization (15 fighters to a Cluster and I think more Mechs but have to check)
The you have Goliath Scorpion Mixed Service Trinaries…...
Nova Cat who I think uses traditional cluster organization (45 Mechs, 75 Elementals, 30 Fighters) which their mid range combined arms carrier was to haul a third of (15 Mechs, 25 Elementals and 10 Fighters). Simple enough but I couldn't satisfy those numbers into a Fortress size rather it ballooned to a Dictator size.
Wolf and Smoke Jaguar are Mech heavy organizations often using a Elemental Binary and Fighter Star to add another Mech trinary (60 Mechs!)
Blood Spirit doesn't use fighters in combined arms operations but sticks to the original doctrine by little Nicki with 45 Mechs, 75 Elementals (bit of a change here so they do evolve slightly), and 30 now OmniVehicles thanks to Quicksilver.
So we need to analysis every Clan's organization style.
Two, need to account for dropship manufacturing facilities throughout Clan space. We can handwave at the end of our efforts to address any big differences with changes made by Operation Restoration's Quicksilver Program.
Three, we need to address the scope of Quicksilver which I had envisioned leaving large craft out of its combined war production efforts or at least delaying it cause well the size gets enormous. And remember with Quicksilver we use existing products to produce a better end product. Remember to recycle comment intends for you to look at what is out there and ask yourself how can we use it. Also the Free Guilds are a bit of a help in that area possessing a number of mothballed ships ready for overhaul.
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One type doesnt need to fit all clans have competing one one for the traditional mech/elemental/aerospace and one that is geared towards the changing structure with vehicles coming back into play. The beauty of quicksilver is some clans may be altering there traditional cluster layout
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This is true Bradshaw and please do suggest modifications to their traditional styles as you layout your vision for this project.
Maybe there is a combined arms number out there which can really serve the Clans as a whole. What that common divider is I haven't the foggiest yet but breaking down their numbers may hold the key.
Been PMing marauder648 on this subject too and wanted to share these thoughts with everyone here.
We really need to look at what they have (TRO 3057) and we can use to further this goal. I guess we can look at future craft as well to try and fill niches like we did for Quicksilver (TRO3067). The Outpost springs to mind. ;)
Oh and that is the thought I got but forgot in my last post. If I am a Clan warrior and want to challenge someone (another Clan) in the Kerensky Cluster to a duel but they ain't on my planet how can I get there? Is there a need for a single Mech or Fighter or Elemental carrying small craft/dropship?
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You may or may not have looked in detail what i had my Combined Arms dropship carry but its in that mold i was thinking for Star Adders and other like minded clans to take. A slight variance of Kerenskys ideal cluster formation. I'll look anr research more today and type up more tomorrow when im back at my work computer
I thought of marauders post as well my take was more thinking of fast interplanetary couriers
Also could be used for elemental headhunter missions
Thought of this as an example an oldie but a goodie
(https://obtforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpre08.deviantart.net%2F08b9%2Fth%2Fpre%2Ff%2F2014%2F014%2Fe%2F3%2Fissapc_ortho_by_unusualsuspex-d71vs9q.jpg&hash=e62f444d263de0dc9b8c4d4f11adae24bff96efe)
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Because many of the Clans have a very varied layout for their clusters and formations its obviously very hard to do a kind of one size fits all so what could be needed is something a bit like this
[ilKhan] Okay, sit down, shut up, pin your ears back and listen. We are going to be building X to Y specifications as laid out under *insert Quicksilver Legalise sounding protocol here* and as was voted and agreed upon by this very council. They are going to be built to this standard. But, this does not mean that Clans can alter their internal layout as needed for your own formation sizes. But this is its size, this is its maximum capacity, this is the armament and this is the performance.
[Khans] *ALL CLAMOURING!*
They need a base design, something that's shared equally and will be available for all (At what ever cost the Sharks ask) and everyone is happy as they get a new dropship. At which point when everyone goes away they then try and alter it to fit Flurry's, Cloisters, Bernaise Sauce, what ever the individual Clan wants. What they are given though is a very defined framework.
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Id say trials of refusal following but who knows
To bad dropships cant be omnified but i could see variants with x amount of tonnage donated strictly to differing war material loads
Which reminds me Tak once questioned if the Star League could institute another trial of refusal over invasion and if it was allowed canon shows us it does by both nova cat and diamond shark doing trials to be reserve clans in invasion. Just got done reading Revival Wars so made me remember that discussion
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my thinking is that they can't be omnified, but you can standarize to a degree. So lets say the Incompetent Buffoons Class Dropship gets built for the Clans
She's 14,000 tons
She's got 4/6 performance with X fuel
It has X armour ferro aluminium tonnage
and has X weapons
and this is ALL fixed. No changes. So everyone can produce it etc.
The interior though with regards to the cargo, how many Mechs, Elementals, fighters, Creme Brulle, or Duck la orange the individual Clans want to fit in there is up to them.
So a Wolf Incompetent Buffoon might have 30 Mechs, 50 elementals and 20 fighters, whereas a Horse one might have 20 Mechs, 10 vehicles, 25 Elementals 10 fighters etc
But its all on the same base hull.
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Exactly what I was trying to say in A much more vague and crappy way ;D
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Exactly what I was trying to say in A much more vague and crappy way ;D
*tips hat*
Sorry for all the food references, I'm hungry and looking at menu's.
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Haha i just figured you had a cooking show on in the background
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Haha i just figured you had a cooking show on in the background
Kind of, menu's and a rather amusing show called 'Supersizers Go...' with it then being a decade, I'm listening to the one about the 70's, its rather amusing :D
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An unintended benefit to this idea is battlefield surprise when the Clan does not announce their forces againt the inner sphere which i think theyve finally learned is strategically stupendoulsy stupid
Not a clan idea but would innersphere think about a ramming vessel was researching ship types and roles and got me wondering
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Bonus points if you call the ramship the Holdo and somehow survive the anger :p
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And the Clans seem to have kind of stopped going "hey we're gonna hit you with XYZ pretty early on, save outside the really strict adherents of Zell and most of those got themselves and their commands killed off. Don't forget that the Invading clans have just had their Tourmans put through the wringer at Tukkayid and even the ones who won their Trials are in bad shape so there's chance for folks with a bit of grey matter between their ears to get into a position.
And yeah would make sense, if the IS sees a pair of Incompetent Fool class dropships coming towards them, they might not know what they are going to be facing. Sure they have a ROUGH idea maybe from intel reports, but nothing solid.
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So only capital missiles are allowed on dropships i see was hoping lasers could as well, but looking at the ranges naval lasers can reach they cant even reach a mile how the hell do they do either orbital bombardment or shoot down enemy warships from Castle Brians i mean a naval ac or gauss their shells you would think would burn up on entry into atmosphere.
I really thought naval hexes were much larger than they were.
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What are you coming up with Bradshaw? The Charger class Dropship?? :o ::)
Nice Space Above and Beyond pic too!
Which reminds me Tak once questioned if the Star League could institute another trial of refusal over invasion and if it was allowed canon shows us it does by both nova cat and diamond shark doing trials to be reserve clans in invasion. Just got done reading Revival Wars so made me remember that discussion
I believe that particular refusal (Nova Cat/Diamond Shark) one covered their positioning as Clans 6 and 7 should they be needed. Revival only called for four Invading Clans and one Reserve. If you lost like the Cats and Sharks did originally they would have just been the same as Burrock or Ice Hellion who never won a Trial during the Revival Testing.
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Your right but its multiple trials to refute something so it would make sense in that regard that its possible from different sources just not the aame like if wolf tried to refute it again
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Might makes right my friend.
So I will try to come up with a Organization Doctrine List for the Clans to see if we can arrive at a common denominator.
And two we need to list Dropship facilities possessed by each Clan to see who is capable of building what.
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Whilst 'listening' to an update at work today I came up with this, its a small dropship capable of carrying a Nova (5 Mechs, 1 Star of Elementals) protection and firepower are superior to the Broadswoard, performance is identical (same SI and thrust) but with slightly bigger fuel tanks and slightly more cargo, all this for a mere 200 ton increase.
Kharash Dropship
Base Tech Level: Standard (Clan)
Level Era
-------------------
Experimental -
Advanced -
Standard 3145+
Tech Rating: F/X-X-X-E
Weight: 2100 tons
BV: 7,359
Cost: 315,165,600 C-bills
Movement: 5/8
Heat Sinks: 80 [160]
Fuel Points: 0/6000 (150.0 tons)
Tons Per Burn Day: 1.84
Structural Integrity: 9
Armor: 660 (Ferro-Aluminum)
Armor
-------------------
Nose 200
Left Side 165
Right Side 165
Aft 130
Weapons Loc Heat
-----------------------------------------------
Laser Bay NOS 24
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
PPC Bay NOS 30
ER PPC
ER PPC
Pulse Laser Bay AFT 30
Large Pulse Laser
Large Pulse Laser
Large Pulse Laser
LRM Bay LS 18
LRM 20
LRM 20
LRM 20
LRM 20 (Clan) Artemis-capable Ammo 36
LRM Bay RS 18
LRM 20
LRM 20
LRM 20
LRM 20 (Clan) Artemis-capable Ammo 36
Pulse Laser Bay LS 12
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Pulse Laser Bay RS 12
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Pulse Laser Bay NOS 16
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
SRM Bay AFT 8
Streak SRM 6
Streak SRM 6
Streak SRM 6 Ammo 60
AMS Bay LS 1
Anti-Missile System
Anti-Missile System Ammo [Clan] 72
AMS Bay NOS 1
Anti-Missile System
Anti-Missile System Ammo [Clan] 72
AMS Bay RS 1
Anti-Missile System
Anti-Missile System Ammo [Clan] 72
AMS Bay AFT 1
Anti-Missile System
Anti-Missile System Ammo [Clan] 72
Equipment Loc
---------------------
Artemis IV FCS LS
Artemis IV FCS LS
Artemis IV FCS LS
Artemis IV FCS RS
Artemis IV FCS RS
Artemis IV FCS RS
Carrying Capacity
-----------------
Mech (2 doors) - 2 units
Mech (2 doors) - 3 units
Battle Armor Bay (2 doors) - 5 Points
Cargo Space (1 door) - 80 tons
Crew
----------------------
Officers 0
Enlisted/Non-rated 5
Gunners 5
Bay Personnel 40
Again its quick and dirty but a pair of these are far more efficient than having to bring two Broadswords along and a Sassanid for the same role.
And re Organisational doctrine, with the Clan's i'd give up because that'll make you go bald trying to sort that mess. For any dropships we design what would be required is a kind of 'base standard' where the ilKhan goes "This is a standard deployment Cluster consisting of X Y Z. Of course this changes depending on your own doctrinal choices my Khans but this is the base layout of one."
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A assault Nova carrier is an interesting idea certainly and eliminating or replacing a two ship Broadsword/Sassanid need is not a bad idea. Perhaps it is better to go smaller (say 5, 10, or 15) than larger (30 or 45) with carried numbers for these design concepts.
Also I'd like to stay away from specific design proposals so we can come up with a few Quicksilver challenges for more potential fun.
And re Organisational doctrine, with the Clan's i'd give up because that'll make you go bald trying to sort that mess. For any dropships we design what would be required is a kind of 'base standard' where the ilKhan goes "This is a standard deployment Cluster consisting of X Y Z. Of course this changes depending on your own doctrinal choices my Khans but this is the base layout of one."
Dude I hear ya but it may help generate different dropship concepts based on unique unit organization models.
Plus I need to research Dropship industry for who can realistically make what although working with the Free Guilds can help your cause.
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Hmmm idea.
Instead of "THIS IS THE HULL but you can fiddle with the troop layout"
its
"Okay, so a 'Trinary' dropship is to weigh between X and Y tonnage, the Cluster scale dropship is to weigh between R and M tonnage' give us your designs.
And again was bored at lunch and came up with the Olympic class (Olympic was the codename for the Invasion of Japan)
And she's a stretched Overlord, 2600 tons heavier, same performance, thicker protection, roughly the same cargo, a more uniform weapons mix to allow her to defend herself more properly and room for a considerable number of forces.
as always, thoughts are most welcome.
Olympic Class Dropship
Base Tech Level: Standard (Clan)
Level Era
-------------------
Experimental -
Advanced -
Standard 3145+
Tech Rating: F/X-X-X-E
Weight: 14200 tons
BV: 14,308
Cost: 732,264,960 C-bills
Movement: 3/5
Heat Sinks: 190 [380]
Fuel Points: 0/12900 (430.0 tons)
Tons Per Burn Day: 1.84
Structural Integrity: 20
Armor: 1293 (Ferro-Aluminum)
Armor
-------------------
Nose 387
Left Side 324
Right Side 324
Aft 258
Weapons Loc Heat
-----------------------------------------------
Laser Bay (R) LS 24
ER Large Laser (R)
ER Large Laser (R)
Laser Bay AFT 24
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
Laser Bay (R) RS 24
ER Large Laser (R)
ER Large Laser (R)
PPC Bay LS 30
ER PPC
ER PPC
PPC Bay RS 30
ER PPC
ER PPC
PPC Bay NOS 30
ER PPC
ER PPC
LRM Bay LS 24
LRM 20
LRM 20
LRM 20
LRM 20
LRM 20 (Clan) Artemis-capable Ammo 72
LRM Bay RS 24
LRM 20
LRM 20
LRM 20
LRM 20
LRM 20 (Clan) Artemis-capable Ammo 72
AC Bay NOS 31
Gauss Rifle
Gauss Rifle
Gauss Rifle
Ultra AC/20
Ultra AC/20
Ultra AC/20
Ultra AC/20
Gauss Rifle Ammo [Clan] 96
Ultra AC/20 Ammo 120
AC Bay AFT 3
Gauss Rifle
Gauss Rifle
Gauss Rifle
Gauss Rifle Ammo [Clan] 96
Pulse Laser Bay LS 12
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Pulse Laser Bay NOS 12
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Pulse Laser Bay RS 12
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Pulse Laser Bay (R) LS 12
Medium Pulse Laser (R)
Medium Pulse Laser (R)
Medium Pulse Laser (R)
Pulse Laser Bay AFT 12
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Pulse Laser Bay (R) RS 12
Medium Pulse Laser (R)
Medium Pulse Laser (R)
Medium Pulse Laser (R)
LBX AC Bay (R) LS 18
LB 20-X AC (R)
LB 20-X AC (R)
LB 20-X AC (R)
LB 20-X Cluster Ammo 60
LBX AC Bay (R) RS 18
LB 20-X AC (R)
LB 20-X AC (R)
LB 20-X AC (R)
LB 20-X Cluster Ammo 60
AMS Bay LS 2
Anti-Missile System
Anti-Missile System
Anti-Missile System Ammo [Clan] 192
AMS Bay NOS 2
Anti-Missile System
Anti-Missile System
Anti-Missile System Ammo [Clan] 192
AMS Bay RS 2
Anti-Missile System
Anti-Missile System
Anti-Missile System Ammo [Clan] 192
AMS Bay (R) LS 2
Anti-Missile System (R)
Anti-Missile System (R)
Anti-Missile System Ammo [Clan] 192
AMS Bay AFT 2
Anti-Missile System
Anti-Missile System
Anti-Missile System Ammo [Clan] 192
AMS Bay (R) RS 2
Anti-Missile System (R)
Anti-Missile System (R)
Anti-Missile System Ammo [Clan] 192
Equipment Loc
---------------------
Artemis IV FCS LS
Artemis IV FCS LS
Artemis IV FCS LS
Artemis IV FCS LS
Artemis IV FCS RS
Artemis IV FCS RS
Artemis IV FCS RS
Artemis IV FCS RS
Carrying Capacity
-----------------
Mech (2 doors) - 15 units
Mech (2 doors) - 15 units
Mech (2 doors) - 15 units
Battle Armor Bay (1 door) - 15 Points
Aerospace Fighter (1 door) - 10 units (2 recovery open)
Cargo Space (1 door) - 1,200 tons
Crew
-----------------------
Officers 0
Enlisted/Non-rated 9
Gunners 10
Bay Personnel 200
10 x Life boats
10 x Escape Pods
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Go Big or Go Home
Base one off the Mammoth frame the largest planetary landing dropship and be done.
But seriously we'd have to look at BV calculations does two dropships make sense in the regards to Clan resource allowances? or would they be better with one. I'm not really into the whole BV usage so don't know if this is what we'd want to look at to measure that.
Had an attachment as I made a Mammoth based Troop transport but stopped as I will wait for any future challenges.
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There is such a thing as putting to many eggs in one basket. Ideally your trying to mate dropships with a jumpship in my opinion that can carry everything.
Did you guys see what I did with the Condor IIC? (page 1 this thread) A mech bay is 150 tons and so is a heavy vehicle bay paired with a light vehicle bay. Works out cause vehicles are 2 to 1 (Mechs) in Clan formations. I kind of modularized the space based on the calculation. We can either go with modular bays or same craft two different variants (Condor, Vulture, etc.) I was thinking
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It really depends on more than transport. Jumpships have a use imo and its definitely not on the frontlines of an invasion where a singular fighter with a lucky shot can take out a multibillion dollar investment
When trying to make a beachhead do you spread your forces out or do you concentrate on a singular point. I think it depends on philosophical differences in the Clans. Just like differing opinions in mech layouts some will choose less capacity for quicker deployment ability or singular juggernauts that can weather combined fire. Or in between.
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In my head the Clans would be okay with putting eggs in one basket, because the Clans in their Trial based combat very rarely targetted hostile DropShips because Safcon was very often used. The Clans whole kind of battle is Blitzkrieg based, so concentrating force is its big thing. In my mind this makes larger dropships to carry all the forces as needed.
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So a dropper that can carry 45-50 Mechs and up to two trinaries of Battle Armor would work for most Clans. Fighters would be carried on dedicated carrier-dropships like the Carrier or Titan. The outliers would include the Hell's Horses and Blood Spirits who still use vehicles in their frontline units.
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And there would also be the need for a smaller Dropper capable of carrying say a Binary or a Nova Binary into action and yeah using a dedicated carrier for fighters makes sense, t he SLDF did it so the lets keep with that, Great Father would be happy!
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As seen with Nicholas changing Star League organization to the new clan structure he must have felt differently about traditional things who knows if he may have changed more if not dieing vs widowmaker.
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Well considering that Special K was just a wee bit fruity in the head to put it mildly, god knows :s
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Wouldn't be shocked if he did commit fratricide.
Was looking at Carrier role Dropship. Went to look at Cloud Cobra the quote unquote leaders of Aerospace in the Clans. Their standard Cluster consists of a whopping 90 fighters
"The backbone of the Cobra's Touman, most Coil Clusters consist of three Trinaries of Aerospace Fighters"
There is no singular dropship that could do that without being in the 20k + range. So you're talking at least two Dropships to carry that more than likely three.
I saw conflicting tonnage on Vengeance as is listed on Sarna at 10000 and on MeckLab at a little over 11k
Helix (3056)
Base Tech Level: Standard (Clan)
Level Era
-------------------
Experimental -
Advanced 3056+
Standard -
Tech Rating: F/X-X-E-E
Weight: 10000 tons
BV: 7,413
Cost: 2,315,721,600 C-bills
Source: TRO 3057R - Clan Invasion
Movement: 4/6
Heat Sinks: 148 [296]
Fuel Points: 10500/12000 (400.0 tons)
Tons Per Burn Day: 1.84
Structural Integrity: 15
Armor: 1068 (Ferro-Aluminum)
Armor
-------------------
Nose 321
Left Side 267
Right Side 267
Aft 213
Weapons Loc Heat
--------------------------------------------
AMS Bay NOS 2
Anti-Missile System
Anti-Missile System
Anti-Missile System Ammo [Clan] 144
AMS Bay LS 2
Anti-Missile System
Anti-Missile System
Anti-Missile System Ammo [Clan] 144
AMS Bay RS 2
Anti-Missile System
Anti-Missile System
Anti-Missile System Ammo [Clan] 144
AMS Bay AFT 2
Anti-Missile System
Anti-Missile System
Anti-Missile System Ammo [Clan] 144
Laser Bay NOS 48
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
Laser Bay LS 48
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
Laser Bay RS 48
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
Laser Bay AFT 48
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
LBX AC Bay NOS 2
LB 5-X AC
LB 5-X AC
LB 5-X Cluster Ammo 400
LBX AC Bay LS 2
LB 5-X AC
LB 5-X AC
LB 5-X Cluster Ammo 400
LBX AC Bay RS 2
LB 5-X AC
LB 5-X AC
LB 5-X Cluster Ammo 400
LBX AC Bay AFT 2
LB 5-X AC
LB 5-X AC
LB 5-X Cluster Ammo 400
Equipment Loc
---------------------------------------
Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Small) NOS
Carrying Capacity
-----------------
Aerospace Fighter (6 doors) - 30 units (2 recovery open)
Small Craft (2 doors) - 2 units (2 recovery open)
Cargo Space (0 doors) - 871 tons
Crew
----------------------
Officers 3
Enlisted/Non-rated 5
Gunners 6
Bay Personnel 70
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I like the Helix, very very nice!
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Had to play on the coil name of clusters fit perfectly
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The Vengeance IIC is on the agenda already as you can see. I like the ship name Helix for one of these craft.
Any known canon dropship construction facilities discovered?
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Ill look but got a lot of family coming in this weekend for vinnys memorial on Saturday.
First week of the semester kept me from working on that other project for you
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No problem bud, I'll see what I can find and post it for discussion. ;)
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Ok guys I have looked through sarna.net aka BattleTechwiki but there really isn't much there about Dropship construction facilities. Really there are only two (Lum and Marshall) which caused me to go through TRO3057R to look up each Clan Dropship design (10 in all). Luckily the fluff there really outlines exactly where everything is made. Here is the list below;
Design Mass Intro Shipyards
Broadsword 1,900 tons 2979 Marshall Orbital Yards
Confederate 1,900 tons 2602 [Star League built Clan refit, ?]
Noruff 1,900 tons 3056 Marshall Orbital Yards
Sassanid 3,000 tons 2875 Babylon L-5 Yards
Union-C 4,700 tons 2829 Strana Mechty (new shipyards)
Carrier 5,000 tons 2882 Rumiko on Lum (Crest Foundries, ?)
Lion 7,300 tons 2595 [Star League built Clan refit]
Miraborg 9,800 tons 3053 Huntress Yards
Overlord-C 11,600 tons 2818 Strana Mechty
Titan-C 12,000 tons 2647 [Star League built Clan refit, ?]
So to break it down there appears to be three designs (Confederate, Lion, Titan) which appear to be Star League built and refit by the Clans. While this is not certain about the Confederate or Titan it is absolutely stated in the text that no new Lions have been built just existing craft upgraded by the Clans. This does make a great deal of sense and lays an excellent foundation for the Free Guilds restoration program which helps the Clans refurbish existing designs.
Also on the topic of the Free Guilds there are two dropships (Union and Overlord) which confirm the fact that there is a shipyard (albeit a small one) orbiting Strana Mechty. Again it makes sense to me and given the known territorial divide of the Clan capital world (each Clan owns an equal share) it does lay the foundation for the Free Guilds as I have laid them out. Who else would you trust with these presumably joint facilities? Perhaps the Guild assembled these facilities thanks to their existing space infrastructure.
The Marshall Orbital Yards have an interesting history which know thanks to its first appearance in Bloodright (FASA1666). The Broadsword (1,850 tons) was developed by Clan Sea Fox shortly before it changed its name to Diamond Shark. While all Clans make use of this dropship Steel Viper has the most currently thanks to a Trial of Possession for the factory on Marshall. The Vipers are currently building the Noruff (1,900 tons) which maybe we can tweak a bit. Their ownership of this facility and their rivalry with the Snow Ravens produced an idea in me that had them building a number of assault designs. Please not that the dropships produced here are small in size perhaps denoting limitations in the facilities or a ceiling mass of around 2k tons which can’t be exceeded.
Rumiko on Lum or Crest Foundries as Battletechwiki states produces the Carrier class Dropship for the Snow Ravens who supply it to the rest of the Clans for a price. I use the word or because I am not sure if Crest Foundries equals Rumiko on Lum. Will have to do more research and see if there is a difference between facilities which there indeed maybe. Whatever the finding there we also most presume that the Naval Clan that the Ravens are likely try to hold onto production rights for any large craft. In my view this arena is their monopoly and they will try just about anything to keep it intact. So producing new waves of dropships for Operation Restoration would somehow have to placate them. Also I was thinking that the Ravens might have the closest ties to the Free Guilds but would naval expansion for the Clans threaten this?
The Huntress Yards are specifically sited in the launching of the Miraborg in 3053 which was originally named the Charybdis. This looks like it is a new construction facility or more precisely a dockyard now slated for production. With the Smoke Jaguars difficulty meeting production goals (resource shortages) maybe the extravagance of this new design could serve as an excuse for their resource shortfall. The large size of this craft at just under 10k tons leads me to think it is a major investment and an impressive display. The new Jaguar saKhan is likely to be pleased with this new dropship and will likely continue or expand on the project.
This is a new find today for me and perhaps raises the most questions in terms of construction facilities. The Babylon L-5 Yards (could this facility be our last best hope for peace) has produced the Sassanid since 2875 and its owner is unknown. Likely it is one of the four Clans (Cloud Cobra, Coyote, Diamond Shark, Ice Hellion) with ownership on world but it is possible that another Clan could have seized it. Smoke Jaguar has the largest concentration of these vessels in their fleet while the Wolves and Jade Falcons have the smallest. Perhaps the Jags seized the facility at sometime during their long and bloody history. It is plausible. I do have to say that this yard (perhaps located at a Legrange point hence the designation) has not drawn much other note. It may be limited to a single bay and 3k tons at the most.
Future Clan Dropship detailed in Technical Readout 3067 introduced three additional Clan dropship designs which gives us one additional shipyard. The Arcadia shows that the Snow Ravens can indeed produce more and could likely prevail in any naval arms race with Steel Viper but at what cost? I am sure they would like to avoid that if possible. The Mercer shows that the Viper yard on Marshall can expand though as it is the third design produced there and the largest approaching 5k tons. The Kirin Orbital Works SJ-3 are the newest player in the game presumably a former Smoke Jaguar possession (SJ in the name). The Hell’s Horses use the facility to produce the Outpost though possibly changing a yard which had been tasked with maintenance to a construction slip.
Design Mass Intro Shipyards
Arcadia 3,000 tons 3066 Rumiko on Lum (Crest Foundries, ?)
Mercer 4,500 tons 3065 Marshall Orbital Yards
Outpost 7,000 tons 3063 Kirin Orbital Works SJ-3
Maintenance yards versus construction yards. The following is conjecture on my part. Presumably the large part of Clan space industry is assigned for the maintenance of their pre-existing fleet which is quite large already. We know of other yards in passing like the Cheops Shipyards in the Albion system thanks to the Burrock Absorption in canon but presumably nothing is manufactured there. Presumably most are busy repairing and servicing the fleet of each Clan which in some cases like Star Adder seems to be under stress for a lack of maintenance.
Again, I have the sneaking feeling the Ravens might have their business model directed toward the strangulation of any potential competition carefully withholding vital industry, technical assistance or necessary resource for the expansion of Clan fleets. Keeping their supremacy is likely a full time job.
What are your thoughts based on these findings and my conjecture.
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Very good research my friend, and I agree with the last part, the Ravens will do everything they can to maintain their stranglehold on space based assets. I'd say though that the facilities in Strana Mechty could very much be like the Titan yards in the Sol system, large and established but not used or only used in a maintenance sense because in reality most of the Clan's don't really give two figs for aerospace assets.
According to the fluff most Clans, WarShips are ill wanted solhama and a DropShips only job is to get Warriors from A to B. The most aerospace minded Clans AFAIK are the Cloud Cobras and Ravens whilst the Shark's also are big ship users but only for trade.
And then you look at the Falcons with their seemingly endless march of Aegis class ships and commissioning a Nightlord and so forth. And then logic must sit there and go "The Clans DO care about WarShips, but they just use them very differently."
Basically because of their limited construction facilities, (until the War of Reaving where the Vipers managed to build a yard big enough to produce a Leviathan II in secret) with Lum probably being the only yard capable of making new WarShips of any size, WarShips are an asset that simply can't be risked.
And they, and the Raven's know this, its why they probably ensured that they were the only ones who had the yards, the experience and knowledge to build WarShips outside of the Fredassa which is fairly small and could probably be built at JumpShip yards. So this makes WarShips in Clan service difficult to replace, and because of their age with most ships being several hundred years old, hard to maintain.
This makes running them very expensive in light of the limited population base the Clans would probably struggle to man the crew intensive WarShips of the SLDF era. And then you've got to get the parts for them, most of which are probably not built by many of the Clans and again are probably only built by the Sharks, Cloud Cobras and Ravens. This means that, say, if you needed to get a nice new NL-55 for your cruiser as the one its got has failed due to age, you better hope your clans relations with them are good otherwise you're not getting that laser.
Also, in the face of it, most SLDF designs are quite obsolete, poorly armoured and near defenceless against fighters, built for the mass deployment tactics enjoyed by the SLDF who would rely on numbers, firepower and skill to compensate for any shortcomings in their ships. But the Clans can no longer deploy massed squadrons of Destroyers who would work together with their aerospace groups and interlinked layers of fire from their weapons to deal with threats. Instead, the Clans seemingly often deployed at most in pairs, and when a WarShip did go out, it was often alone.
And a lone WarShip is a powerful but very vulnerable statement that is worryingly vulnerable to Aerospace fighters.
So you've got hard to man, hard to maintain ships that are of limited use in the Clans style of fighting, its no wonder that most Clans simply mothballed their WarShips in caches to be called upon IF needed. But are then too vulnerable to risk and near impossible to replace. So they simply didn't use them, it wasn't worth the hassle and expense.
I would assume that most Clans have some orbital repair and refit facilities but these are for JumpShips and DropShips for the most part but some Clans would have a monopoly on this. Also don't forget you can probably build a DropShip at ground facilities if needed and they can land to be altered and changed, you do not need an orbital facility, but you'd still need one hell of a factory for such an endeavour, which would make other Clans covet such a facility.
In reality, to make any expansion or changes of the Clans naval program work, we'd have to go outside of the canon.
1 - First, the Clans are going to have to accept that their doctrine is wrong in regards to aerospace assets, especially DropShips. They are not just a glorified cargo scow that gets Warriors from A to B. Tukkayid, Luthen and more showed them that DropShips are vulnerable in space and on the ground and that the Spheroids WILL go for them in battle if they can because destroying a DropShip in space can severely impact the fight on the ground. So use to SafCon the Clans would need to be shaken from their complacency and the idiotic idea that the Inner Sphere is going to play by their rules because they expect them to.
2 - To do this you're probably going to have to work with the Ravens, in reality they are the only Clan with the expertise and the yard facilities to take the strain of a surge in DropShip building. If this means that the Invading Clans have to work out a deal with them to ship them resources from the Inner Sphere to the Raven's holdings then so be it. Work something out with the Sharks to ensure its 'fair' for all parties involved.
3 - The Clans have different designs and these could be shared or traded for production by other Clans in return for runs of Mechs or equipment or whatever. The Jaguars for example have the very very new Miraborg/Charybdis which is far superior to the aeging and unmodernized (for some unknown reason) Titan II. But they probably lack the resources to build it as well as the time, with them having to focus on rebuilding their shattered Tourman as a priority. So to get the resources they need, they might be convinced to trade the design with the other Clans. The same goes for the Vipers, their Noruff design is a potent ship and something that is needed to counter Spheroid tactics and hostile Assault DropShips.
4 - Spheroid WarShips. Something tells me that the Great Houses wouldn't keep their WarShip building program a secret. Its a big propaganda boost, flouting their industrial strength, their will, their techological expertise in facing the Clan threat and so on. And if this was made public through news or something, the Clans would hear about it. And the cold hard reality is that the Inner Sphere can EASILY outbuild the Clans once they get going. And this means that the Invaders are going to have to shake off the ghost of Edo and Turtle Bay and view it as an abberation. They'll need to have their own WarShips there just in case. And whilst the Houses probably won't be able to build up enough forces to counter the Clan's WarShip fleets for a decade, how long does that 'Truce' last again?
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Its inferred in FM Crusader that Star Adders have shipyards and dry docks but not enough to maintain their fleet
Burrock has a massive shipyards on Albion Cheops yards its called was damaged in the absoption by blood spirit
CC has one on new kent candra orbital shipyards that says makes their few dropships
Snow Ravens refitted Diamond Sharks yards on Babylon
Found in FM Crusader and Warden
So the L5 yards are probably still sharks
New Kent is perfect fix for Helix design ::)
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it's also probably in the remit of the ilKhan's power to get the Free Guilds to reactivate something like a Newgrange for use as a shipyard. Even if its built to operate as a DropShip manufacturing plant, it could be of use. And other Khans might approve as it would take some of the Raven's power in this field away.
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Maintenance yards versus construction yards. The following is conjecture on my part. Presumably the large part of Clan space industry is assigned for the maintenance of their pre-existing fleet which is quite large already. We know of other yards in passing like the Cheops Shipyards in the Albion system thanks to the Burrock Absorption in canon but presumably nothing is manufactured there. Presumably most are busy repairing and servicing the fleet of each Clan which in some cases like Star Adder seems to be under stress for a lack of maintenance.
Again, I have the sneaking feeling the Ravens might have their business model directed toward the strangulation of any potential competition carefully withholding vital industry, technical assistance or necessary resource for the expansion of Clan fleets. Keeping their supremacy is likely a full time job.
What are your thoughts based on these findings and my conjecture.
Didnt read this before posting my finds
I agree with this with the huge amount of ships that were brought in the exodus and i would think many surviving even til today maintenance is a major concern as lets face it their ships are really old now. Id think just number of dropships they have pushes existing capacity to its limits let alone warships and jumpships.
Personally id like them to realize recycling the old ships is the better option than trying to maintain the large majority of them [especially military transports] starting a new say 10 year plan to revamp a sorely lacking aspect of their war potential.
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Seyla, the Clans basically have way too many things to maintain and yeah, recycling their older vessels and scrapping those in the worst state might very well be needed. Because the Clans have such a poor grasp on logistics they need to either shorten their supply lines or radically overhaul them.
This means that the Clans need to probably move some form of logistics forwards, either establish a shared facility on the Exodus road's worlds or in the Chainlane worlds, factories even a yardship for repairs. So they can manufacture everything they need not 12 months away, but weeks.
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An idea would be for some of their mammoths/behemoths overhauled into minor production sites for armaments armor and ammo and shipped by the Diamond Shark potemkins and used in IS. I know ive read of other dropships converted by them just cant remember where. Think it was for endosteel
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This would make sense, you'd have a form of proto-arkship in that regard. Use the Potemkin as the main core and have the Dropships attached as the facilities. By using the Potemkin you've got security, mobility, and a lot of cargo space to use.
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Thanks for the nod marauder648.
I would like to keep the focus on dropships and when I get a chance I want to go over what the Clans have now examining the niche that they fill and if age requires their replacement. For example the Miraborg may indeed be the necessary replacement of the Titan-C.
We agree that the Ravens are the masters of all things naval and will take steps to ensure their continued supremacy. I think the invasion is expanding how the Clans view naval assets for many reasons including logistics and survivability especially when faced with some new InnerSphere craft. The Ravens ain't dumb though and perhaps may get on board heavy when calls for a naval upgrade come in hopes of getting ahead of things.
I think that all space assets with the possible exception of McKenna's Pride and Prinz Eugen are the property of the Free Guilds or rather strategic assets benefiting all the Clans with output shared equally.
According to the fluff most Clans, WarShips are ill wanted solhama and a DropShips only job is to get Warriors from A to B. The most aerospace minded Clans AFAIK are the Cloud Cobras and Ravens whilst the Shark's also are big ship users but only for trade.
And then you look at the Falcons with their seemingly endless march of Aegis class ships and commissioning a Nightlord and so forth. And then logic must sit there and go "The Clans DO care about WarShips, but they just use them very differently."
Basically because of their limited construction facilities, (until the War of Reaving where the Vipers managed to build a yard big enough to produce a Leviathan II in secret) with Lum probably being the only yard capable of making new WarShips of any size, WarShips are an asset that simply can't be risked.
The Clans do care for their naval assets just not for war.
Snow Ravens maintain their naval supremacy out of a need for survival among the Clans. A successful strategy given that their weak ground touman was so pathetic it couldn't qualify for Operation Revival. I mean if that ain't cause for absorption then what is? But no Clan raised a finger to even motion the notion. Combining this strategy with their political acumen they are the survivors of the Clan way based almost solely on this naval monopoly.
Cloud Cobra is more of an aerospace Clan which is similar to but not the same as the Ravens. They use their fighter fleet to augment their strength which has proven effective as nearly every Clan has integrated fighters directly into their ground based touman directly overtime. Their navy is more of a carrier concept used to project their strength outward and they don't want it to participate in combat directly.
It is my contention that the Goliath Scorpions look at their large naval fleet as a living museum which furthers their Seeking goals. Each ship is lovingly maintain and tells a story about the past which very much impacts the present and future. To this Clan it is part of their psyche IMO and subjecting it to danger such as direct combat is unthinkable or unfavorable at the least.
I never loved the idea of the Vipers building a yard in secret for the Leviathan and this is why I thought with the Marshall Yards they could perhaps challenge the Ravens by fielding a large fleet of droppers. I do have a vision for the Leviathans in this setting but again want to keep to dropships for now.
Yeah Diamond Shark is primarily established their fleet for commerce no doubt and actually might be the most inclined to use it to insure 'freedom of the black seas'. Their possession of the Babylon L-5 Yards would make a certain amount of sense could you please site, where you found this info Bradshaw (book title and page number). Also the Raven refit of the yard is interesting too.
I always think of the Blood Spirit participation in the Burrock Absorption as a fascinating example of how a Clan which rid itself of much of its fleet was able to deliver (albeit) with the element of surprise such a large portion of its ground based touman into battle against the Burrocks and Star Adders. Not only did they land but they also escaped so the Spirits are the one Clan IMO opinion who realizes its limitations and practices for a great offensive (yeah against Burrock) in spite of having a very small warship fleet.
A little of subject but want to mention don't forget we have some unknown Clan Warship classes from Strategic Operations (page 14-17) which has Clan Wolf first warship was the Molniya launched in 2951 and Jade Falcon's was the Peregrine launched in 2969 while Snow Raven launched something called the Corone in 2915. I know this is a bit off topic but none of these ships is currently in service so what happened to them? Were they from an age where ever briefly the Clans had naval trials??
In reality, to make any expansion or changes of the Clans naval program work, we'd have to go outside of the canon.
1 - First, the Clans are going to have to accept that their doctrine is wrong in regards to aerospace assets, especially DropShips. They are not just a glorified cargo scow that gets Warriors from A to B. Tukkayid, Luthen and more showed them that DropShips are vulnerable in space and on the ground and that the Spheroids WILL go for them in battle if they can because destroying a DropShip in space can severely impact the fight on the ground. So use to SafCon the Clans would need to be shaken from their complacency and the idiotic idea that the Inner Sphere is going to play by their rules because they expect them to.
2 - To do this you're probably going to have to work with the Ravens, in reality they are the only Clan with the expertise and the yard facilities to take the strain of a surge in DropShip building. If this means that the Invading Clans have to work out a deal with them to ship them resources from the Inner Sphere to the Raven's holdings then so be it. Work something out with the Sharks to ensure its 'fair' for all parties involved.
3 - The Clans have different designs and these could be shared or traded for production by other Clans in return for runs of Mechs or equipment or whatever. The Jaguars for example have the very very new Miraborg/Charybdis which is far superior to the aeging and unmodernized (for some unknown reason) Titan II. But they probably lack the resources to build it as well as the time, with them having to focus on rebuilding their shattered Tourman as a priority. So to get the resources they need, they might be convinced to trade the design with the other Clans. The same goes for the Vipers, their Noruff design is a potent ship and something that is needed to counter Spheroid tactics and hostile Assault DropShips.
4 - Spheroid WarShips. Something tells me that the Great Houses wouldn't keep their WarShip building program a secret. Its a big propaganda boost, flouting their industrial strength, their will, their techological expertise in facing the Clan threat and so on. And if this was made public through news or something, the Clans would hear about it. And the cold hard reality is that the Inner Sphere can EASILY outbuild the Clans once they get going. And this means that the Invaders are going to have to shake off the ghost of Edo and Turtle Bay and view it as an abberation. They'll need to have their own WarShips there just in case. And whilst the Houses probably won't be able to build up enough forces to counter the Clan's WarShip fleets for a decade, how long does that 'Truce' last again?
The Free Guilds and all those naval caches out there make it very possible for the Clans to field more than what they have. They have naval stockpiles including dropships upon which to draw so I can see Quicksilver Dropships working to fill gaps and augment capabilities like the Vengeance which I called for and Bradshaw recently took a stab at. Might post my version soon so we can discuss the design.
But how can the Ravens jump out ahead of this and keep control? Does Steel Viper engage in its new dropship challenge theory here? How are the newly active Free Guilds viewed by the Clans?
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CC has one on new kent candra orbital shipyards that says makes their few dropships
Page 54 its a 92nd fighter wing cluster writeup that they are responsible for defending it
Snow Ravens refitted Diamond Sharks yards on Babylon
Page 60
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Field Manual Warden Clans? Nice spots, I will look them up.
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I think that all space assets with the possible exception of McKenna's Pride and Prinz Eugen are the property of the Free Guilds or rather strategic assets benefiting all the Clans with output shared equally.
I cant see these guys having access to any military tech. I see them as mechanics and pilots of civilian dropships. If they had access to military tech theyd be fair game for trails of possession imo
Snow Ravens maintain their naval supremacy out of a need for survival among the Clans. A successful strategy given that their weak ground touman was so pathetic it couldn't qualify for Operation Revival. I mean if that ain't cause for absorption then what is? But no Clan raised a finger to even motion the notion. Combining this strategy with their political acumen they are the survivors of the Clan way based almost solely on this naval monopoly.
Thats not the reason its because they had just gotten wrecked by clan coyote so showers didnt let them participate
I always think of the Blood Spirit participation in the Burrock Absorption as a fascinating example of how a Clan which rid itself of much of its fleet was able to deliver (albeit) with the element of surprise such a large portion of its ground based touman into battle against the Burrocks and Star Adders. Not only did they land but they also escaped so the Spirits are the one Clan IMO opinion who realizes its limitations and practices for a great offensive (yeah against Burrock) in spite of having a very small warship fleet.
They got mauled and lost something like 8 galaxies. I dont think so much was surprise but allowing to land safcon and beating their ass for interfering.
But how can the Ravens jump out ahead of this and keep control? Does Steel Viper engage in its new dropship challenge theory here? How are the newly active Free Guilds viewed by the Clans?
Snow Ravens
Reach out to Clans that are resource rich like invading clans and larger home ones for upgrading older ships for new ones. Some of the clans ships predate the star league
Steel Viper seems too strict for assault dropship positions i assumed they built and traded for other resources
I cant see free guilds as being a new thing its got to be something founded at birth of clans as a resource available to all clans freely for roles that either no one wanted to do or as the caretakers of the strahna mecty system.
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So Marshall yards at this point is only making broadsword few years off on noruff and mercer isnt for over a decade so its not a huge facility it seems as of yet
Whats odd is the vipers that garrison marshall suck so it doesn't seem to be a highly thought of position based upon reading FM Wardens. Both Fire Mandrills and goliath scorpion are mentioned beating viper clusters. Guess Goliath Scorpion has reached out to Ravens as well to assist against a mutual foe
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We know the Ravens have a history of deal making, they helped the Bear's make the Leviathans which are still under construction at this point. What's really needed is some aggressive expansion. Have some ships scout the worlds on the Exodus Trail, look for easily accessable resources (ores etc) and then perhaps send in the Free Guild to start mining like a madman (asteroid mining etc). Even have a temporary site to turn the ores into stuff like endo-steel and ferro-fibrous plate before having it shipped home to the Homeworlds.
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Now that is an interesting thought and perhaps the biggest Warden argument in favor of all this ramped up logistical support, dramatic increase in material wealth. If the Homeworlds benefit from the invasion substantial will they even want to return to the InnerSphere? Especially when they find out it ain't such a paradise. I did have in mind the establishment of new colonies in the Periphery by the Clans for logisitical linkage.
The Noruff is under construction and the Mercer at best a twinkle in the Vipers eye. Even when it is complete (those three design all producing at once) it still won't be that big. I have a feeling the if the Snow Ravens (Lum) and the Free Guilds (Strana Mechty) want to they can blow them away with production but both have held back or lacked the incentive for enhanced manufacturing. Speaking of the Mercer and the other designs from TRO3067 should we advance any of those?
We also have plenty of classic designs to chose from to upgrade as you both have seen my proposed list which perhaps we should discuss in more detail before proceeding.
Again the Free Guilds is entirely civilian and will not possess anything with weapons. They might help construct stuff with weaponry but only with the Clan taking possession of such craft having appropraite personnel on hand. Point of discuss though; the Strana Mechty system is a big place and we saw that the Jaguars had an SDS on Huntress. Would the Guild or more accurately Guild Keshik have an automated defense system including drones to help it police the star system?
I still have to detail all the events of the Hellion's Reckoning.
Yes Bradshaw the Snow Ravens did get wrecked by Coyote but for a Clan to be declared unfit for combat and not get further challenges speaks volumes about their chosen field of expertise.
I doubt the Spirits got safcon and they lost two warships (including their flagship) in the Absorption interference. I think you underestimate their achievement here as they should have been wiped completely out.
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I think if anything it will speed up a desire to return en mass. The Clans were running out of resources or they were becoming harder and harder to obtain. They were running out of territory which in turn put a limit on the number of people they could support without stressing their food supplies and capabilities further.
And I doubt the other Clans would like being beholden to the 'good graces' of the Invaders to share with them the resources of the Inner Sphere. In the four OZ's there's probably far more resources than the Clans could ever really use, and they are going to leap that big glut of 'food' like these boys;
https://i.imgur.com/BCukUbA.gifv
or
https://imgur.com/gallery/uSCEhwf (make sure to unmute)
And for the others in the Homeworld to be reliant on the other Clans shipping it to them fairly and in agreement with any Trade details and enjoy the 6-month delay in stuff coming from the OZ's to the Homeworlds, and then run the risk of another Clan trialling for it?
The Clans are dumb, but they are not stupid.
What they are is greedy and they have a mindset of 'if they have it, I want it.'
So now with the Invader Clans rolling around in a ballpit of resources, the other Clans will no doubt be looking at their rations and empty larders and go "Mine?"
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Well what you say involves a lot of Operation Restoration and the Clans attempt to assimilate the Occupation Zone. I figure lower castes who earn the trip to the InnerSphere could be replaced if needs be by those Spheroid denizens looking to prove their worth to Kerensky's descendants. Recreating the Exodus for these wannabes as well as exiling some troublemakers along the way (new colonies on the Exodus Road) to develop hard worlds which need work (mining, etc.) would I think be fitting. But this gets us a little off topic again.
What did you guys think of these questions;
Speaking of the Mercer and the other designs from TRO3067 should we advance any of those?
We also have plenty of classic designs to chose from to upgrade as you both have seen my proposed list which perhaps we should discuss in more detail before proceeding.
Again the Free Guilds is entirely civilian and will not possess anything with weapons. They might help construct stuff with weaponry but only with the Clan taking possession of such craft having appropriate personnel on hand. Point of discuss though; the Strana Mechty system is a big place and we saw that the Jaguars had an SDS on Huntress. Would the Guild or more accurately Guild Keshik have an automated defense system including drones to help it police the star system?
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New designs old names im fine with just refits i think should not be done. Lipstick on a pig comea to mind
Family all left so looking at upcoming designs as well as old ones to see what they have and what they need
Never seen any other mention of SDS systems in any of the Clan worlds they may have some but would think rare. Unless you know of examples in canon
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Back to research i see the alshain shipyards were built within the next few years do we know if moved to IS or built from scratch
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The Bears moved much of the industry including shipyards from the Homeworlds. Likely moved.
Please give me a list of all the yards you find and what they do with citations of course. ;)
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Found it first in objective clans and its huge
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Alshain_Naval_Yards#/search
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An idea we could use and maybe flesh out
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hughes
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So reading wolf sourcebook it gives the impression Clans used warships as one would expect destroying fighters and ships attempting to flee.
Page 27 paragraph 7
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Reading 3057 in the shipyards fluff it gives the impression there way more shipyards in innersphere than we are lead to believe while leaving the numbers vague by saying numerous amounts it does state that pressurized bays whike rare are over 100 in the inner sphere
It also gives in union c fluff the idea that the clans realize its days are numbered as the innersphere variant can out gun it
Besides Lum naval yards at Rumiko for the Carrier makes it sound like separate facility either a moon or other place in system
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Throwaway fluff in aerotech 2
In the days of the Star League, shipyards could construct cores as light as 2,500 tons
Thats amazingly small i wonder what they could have been used for
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Throwaway fluff in aerotech 2
In the days of the Star League, shipyards could construct cores as light as 2,500 tons
Thats amazingly small i wonder what they could have been used for
The Bug Eye dude
BTW in another thread I found this interesting tidbit on the Peregrine class -
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Peregrine_(WarShip_class)
It also gives in union c fluff the idea that the clans realize its days are numbered as the innersphere variant can out gun it
Again bud as I was asking what classes are keepers and what needs upgrading let me know.
Besides Lum naval yards at Rumiko for the Carrier makes it sound like separate facility either a moon or other place in system
I got the same feeling but can't confirm that yet. Looking for all info on Lum including Wars of Reaving.
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If its a dropship facility Ramuko could well be a ground based facility in the Lum system.
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That is a possibility too
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Forgot how small the bugeye is. Surprised me the clans never just used them to scout the inner sphere along with the Dragoons. Or even used with the watch
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Forgot how small the bugeye is. Surprised me the clans never just used them to scout the inner sphere along with the Dragoons. Or even used with the watch
IIRC such a thing was seen as underhanded and dishonourable. The only intel the Clans had on the Inner Sphere was from the Dragoons and from snippets they managed to pick up. And they'd never give them to the Watch, which had lost its original purpose and was basically powerless as an organisation and viewed either as a laughing stock or a dumping ground. And the Watch was so poor at their job that they'd make the Nazi's Abwehr seem competent, and to do that, takes skill.
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Also something like this
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Snowden
might well be the perview of the Free Guilds.
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Also something like this
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Snowden
might well be the perview of the Free Guilds.
Did you read my mind or something? Are you the Eagles...Tak would get this inside joke. Every draft we used to watch the draft and players I liked from scouting football websites the Eagles would always pick instead of the Giants or Jets. Tak is Giants fan I like both.
I was planning on working on two mining platforms today one for Asteroids for GB and another for Gas Giants for gasses
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Looking through Known Clan Dropships according to Sarna
3053 or earlier
Name Weight Year Usage Shape Origin Capacity Notes
K-1 DropShuttle 200 2536 civilian spheroid Clans refitted Don't see a reason to redesign
Broadsword "1,850" 2979 military aerodyne Clan built 5 BattleMechs Perhaps minor adjustments no need to replace
Confederate "1,860" 2602 military spheroid Clans refitted 5 BattleMechs Scrap or used only for 2nd line troops
Sassanid "3,000" 2875 military spheroid Clan built 3 Elemental Stars. (Intruder) Perhaps minor adjustments no need to replace
Union-C "4,700" 2829 military spheroid Clan built 15 'Mechs Fluff in 3057 gives excuse to upgrade to new design after numerous redesigns
Carrier "5,000" 2882 military aerodyne Clan built 10 Aerospace fighters Perhaps minor adjustments no need to replace
Lion "7,215" 2595 military spheroid Clans refitted 10 BattleMechs Replace with expedited Mercer perhaps
Miraborg "9,750" 3053 military spheroid Clan built 30 Aerospace fighters Perhaps minor adjustments no need to replace
Overlord-C "11,550" 2818 military spheroid Clan built 45 BattleMechs Fluff again in 3057 gives excuse to upgrade to new design after numerous redesigns
Titan "12,000" 2647 military aerodyne Clans refitted 30 Aerospace fighters Miraborg Replaces
Post 3053
Name Weight Year Usage Shape Origin Capacity Notes
Noruff 1900 3056 military aerodyne Clan built Assault craft. Only one prototype known to exist by 3057. Expedite or replace
Arcadia "3,000" 3066 military aerodyne Clan built 15 ProtoMechs Expedite if Protomechs are a think in your universe
Nagasawa 3000 3115 military aerodyne Clan built Assault (Noruff) To far off to consider
Mercer "4,500" 3065 military spheroid Clan built 10 BattleMechs Expedite with perhaps minor changes
Polaris 6000 3100 military spheroid Clan built "20 Heavy Vehicles, 2 Stars BattleArmor" Expedite with perhaps minor changes
Outpost 7000 3063 military spheroid Clan built "Combined arms transport (5 'Mechs, 4 Fighters, 10 tanks, 1 elemental star) (Fortress class)" Expedite with perhaps minor changes
Isegrim 8500 3083 military aerodyne Clan built Assault Expedite with perhaps minor changes
Aesir 18000 3077 military spheroid Clan built 30 Aerospace fighters Nasty perhaps expedite
Vanir 18000 3077 military spheroid Clan built Assault Nasty perhaps expedite
Based off this I'd say we need to have contests for new Union Overlord and Large Combined Arms Cluster Dropship (Aero, 'Mech, Vehicle, Battle Armor) and perhaps another assault or two depending on what is or isn't expedited.
Civilian ones I don't know of any needs other than specialized roles that may not exist in canon but you used in Shattered Dawn or new ideas.
Old designs that have no canon reference for Clans but could be used
Name Weight Year Usage Shape
Saturn "1,200" 2243 military spheroid
Vulture "3,500" 2312 military spheroid
Jumbo "14,800" 2343 civilian spheroid
DroST IIa "5,300" 2445 military aerodyne
Manatee "1,900" 2449 military spheroid
Gazelle "1,903" 2531 military aerodyne
Leopard "1,720" 2537 military aerodyne
Leopard CV "1,720" 2581 military aerodyne
Achilles "4,500" 2582 military aerodyne
Triumph "5,600" 2593 military aerodyne
Dictator "9,000" 2600 military spheroid
Fortress "6,000" 2613 military spheroid
Pentagon "4,000" 2623 military spheroid
Aqueduct "45,000" 2638 civilian spheroid
Fury "1,850" 2638 military aerodyne
Model 96(Elephant) "15,000" 2652 military spheroid
Princess "11,800" 2657 civilian spheroid
Vengeance "10,000" 2682 military aerodyne
Buccaneer "3,500" 2708 civilian aerodyne
Vampire 400 2715 military aerodyne
Colossus "20,000" 2718 military spheroid
Trojan "3,200" 2720 civilian spheroid
Danais "3,200" 2728 civilian spheroid
Mule "11,200" 2737 civilian spheroid
Monarch "5,000" 2759 civilian aerodyne
Behemoth "100,000" 2782 civilian spheroid
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Went through pretty much every book I can think of that would have Shipyard data and I think thats it. Funny thing is I remembered Star's End to see what came of it and what it was doing in the future. I didn't realize Wolf never captured it and just skipped right over it in initial invasion. It would make an interesting forward base as well as Dark Nebula if captured and expedited for production in the Inner Sphere.
-
Oh there are a few shipyards I was thinking the Clans might seize in light of Operation Restoration.
Nice list of droppers and thanks for the comments.
I would really like to get a design contest or two going for this and would love to hear other recommendations on what is needed.
-
Expedited Arcadia
Arcadia
Base Tech Level: Standard (Clan)
Level Era
-------------------
Experimental -
Advanced -
Standard 3053+
Tech Rating: F/X-X-D-D
Weight: 3000 tons
BV: 16,351
Cost: 490,420,800 C-bills
Movement: 6/9
Heat Sinks: 150 [300]
Fuel Points: 5600/6000 (200.0 tons)
Tons Per Burn Day: 1.84
Structural Integrity: 11
Armor: 1034
Armor
-------------------
Nose 310
Left Side 259
Right Side 259
Aft 206
Weapons Loc Heat
-----------------------------------------------
PPC Bay NOS 60
ER PPC
ER PPC
ER PPC
ER PPC
Laser Bay NOS 20
ER Medium Laser
ER Medium Laser
ER Medium Laser
ER Medium Laser
LRM Bay RS 18
LRM 20
LRM 20
LRM 20
LRM 20 (Clan) Artemis-capable Ammo 90
Laser Bay RS 30
ER Medium Laser
ER Medium Laser
ER Medium Laser
ER Medium Laser
ER Medium Laser
ER Medium Laser
LRM Bay LS 18
LRM 20
LRM 20
LRM 20
LRM 20 (Clan) Artemis-capable Ammo 90
Laser Bay LS 30
ER Medium Laser
ER Medium Laser
ER Medium Laser
ER Medium Laser
ER Medium Laser
ER Medium Laser
Laser Bay AFT 20
ER Medium Laser
ER Medium Laser
ER Medium Laser
ER Medium Laser
PPC Bay LS 30
ER PPC
ER PPC
PPC Bay RS 30
ER PPC
ER PPC
PPC Bay AFT 30
ER PPC
ER PPC
SRM Bay AFT 4
Streak SRM 6
Streak SRM 6 Ammo 45
SRM Bay LS 4
Streak SRM 6
Streak SRM 6 Ammo 45
SRM Bay RS 4
Streak SRM 6
Streak SRM 6 Ammo 45
AC Bay NOS 4
Gauss Rifle
Gauss Rifle
Gauss Rifle
Gauss Rifle
Gauss Rifle Ammo [Clan] 240
Equipment Loc
---------------------
Artemis IV FCS RS
Artemis IV FCS RS
Artemis IV FCS RS
Artemis IV FCS LS
Artemis IV FCS LS
Artemis IV FCS LS
Carrying Capacity
-----------------
ProtoMech (3 doors) - 15 units
Battle Armor Bay (3 doors) - 15 Points
Cargo Space (1 door) - 243.5 tons
Crew
----------------------
Officers 3
Enlisted/Non-rated 2
Gunners 8
Bay Personnel 96
Quarters
----------------------
First Class 2
Standard 11
Sec. Class 24
Escape Pods 2
Expedited & Improved Mercer
Mercer Expedited
Base Tech Level: Standard (Clan)
Level Era
-------------------
Experimental -
Advanced -
Standard 3053+
Tech Rating: F/X-X-D-D
Weight: 4500 tons
BV: 18,721
Cost: 583,055,200 C-bills
Movement: 5/8
Heat Sinks: 250 [500]
Fuel Points: 3000 (100.0 tons)
Tons Per Burn Day: 1.84
Structural Integrity: 30
Armor: 1560 (Ferro-Aluminum)
Armor
-------------------
Nose 460
Left Side 380
Right Side 380
Aft 340
Weapons Loc Heat
------------------------------------
Laser Bay NOS 48
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
PPC Bay NOS 60
ER PPC
ER PPC
ER PPC
ER PPC
Pulse Laser Bay NOS 40
Large Pulse Laser
Large Pulse Laser
Large Pulse Laser
Large Pulse Laser
Laser Bay RS 48
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
PPC Bay RS 30
ER PPC
ER PPC
PPC Bay (R) RS 30
ER PPC (R)
ER PPC (R)
Pulse Laser Bay (R) RS 30
Large Pulse Laser (R)
Large Pulse Laser (R)
Large Pulse Laser (R)
Laser Bay LS 48
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
PPC Bay LS 30
ER PPC
ER PPC
PPC Bay (R) LS 30
ER PPC (R)
ER PPC (R)
Pulse Laser Bay (R) LS 30
Large Pulse Laser (R)
Large Pulse Laser (R)
Large Pulse Laser (R)
Laser Bay AFT 72
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
PPC Bay AFT 30
ER PPC
ER PPC
Laser Bay (R) LS 24
ER Large Laser (R)
ER Large Laser (R)
Laser Bay (R) RS 24
ER Large Laser (R)
ER Large Laser (R)
Pulse Laser Bay LS 20
Large Pulse Laser
Large Pulse Laser
Pulse Laser Bay RS 20
Large Pulse Laser
Large Pulse Laser
AC Bay LS 2
Gauss Rifle
Gauss Rifle
Gauss Rifle Ammo [Clan] 160
AC Bay RS 2
Gauss Rifle
Gauss Rifle
Gauss Rifle Ammo [Clan] 160
Carrying Capacity
-----------------
Mech (4 doors) - 10 units
Battle Armor Bay (4 doors) - 5 Points
Cargo Space (0 doors) - 321.500 tons
Crew
----------------------
Officers 4
Enlisted/Non-rated 1
Gunners 12
Bay Personnel 50
Quarters
----------------------
First Class 4
Standard 13
Sec. Class 15
Escape Pods 4
Last one I swear. The Clans are missing a hard hitting Assault Craft. Designed off the Achilles frame my second favorite dropship after the Titan.
Myrmidon
Base Tech Level: Standard (Clan)
Level Era
-------------------
Experimental -
Advanced -
Standard 2921+
Tech Rating: F/X-F-D-D
Weight: 4500 tons
BV: 24,925
Cost: 763,891,200 C-bills
Movement: 8/12
Heat Sinks: 124 [248]
Fuel Points: 9000 (300.0 tons)
Tons Per Burn Day: 1.84
Structural Integrity: 16
Armor: 1792 (Ferro-Aluminum)
Armor
-------------------
Nose 550
Left Side 425
Right Side 425
Aft 392
Weapons Loc Heat
------------------------------------
Laser Bay LS 60
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
Laser Bay RS 60
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
Laser Bay AFT 36
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
AC Bay LS 4
Gauss Rifle
Gauss Rifle
Gauss Rifle
Gauss Rifle
Gauss Rifle Ammo [Clan] 80
AC Bay RS 4
Gauss Rifle
Gauss Rifle
Gauss Rifle
Gauss Rifle
Gauss Rifle Ammo [Clan] 80
AC Bay AFT 2
Gauss Rifle
Gauss Rifle
Gauss Rifle Ammo [Clan] 80
AC Bay NOS 4
Gauss Rifle
Gauss Rifle
Gauss Rifle
Gauss Rifle
Gauss Rifle Ammo [Clan] 160
LBX AC Bay AFT 12
LB 20-X AC
LB 20-X AC
LB 20-X Cluster Ammo 50
LBX AC Bay NOS 24
LB 20-X AC
LB 20-X AC
LB 20-X AC
LB 20-X AC
LB 20-X Cluster Ammo 100
Laser Bay NOS 48
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
LBX AC Bay LS 12
LB 20-X AC
LB 20-X AC
LB 20-X Cluster Ammo 50
LBX AC Bay RS 12
LB 20-X AC
LB 20-X AC
LB 20-X Cluster Ammo 50
Carrying Capacity
-----------------
Aerospace Fighter (2 doors) - 2 units (2 recovery open)
Battle Armor Bay (4 doors) - 4 Points
Cargo Space (1 door) - 252 tons
Crew
----------------------
Officers 7
Enlisted/Non-rated 26
Gunners 11
Bay Personnel 28
Quarters
----------------------
First Class 7
Standard 37
Sec. Class 14
Life Boats 2
Escape Pods 4
-
Very nice designs folks. An expedited Arcadia could make a perfectly fine Elemental/Assault dropper, plus I love the blended lifting body look of the Arcadia.
-
An expedited Arcadia would be good but what transport role would serve without ProtoMechs? Essentially it is a raider which can get there and contest enemy challenges in different places. It has a place certainly.
My upgraded Clan Achilles is the Hector made by Ice Hellion.
https://www.ourbattletech.com/forum/index.php?topic=2938.msg39368#msg39368
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Okay folks took a little while to assemble but here it is an organizational look at the first Clan, Blood Spirit. I included thoughts on Quicksilver, industry, dropship needs, fiscal capabilities, and a lot of other relevant thoughts. Love to here what you think before we move on to the next Clan.
Blood Spirit
Perhaps the easiest unit structure to understand as it follows Nicholas Kerensky’s original outline without variation. This orthodox arrangement of 9 stars of ‘Mechs, 3 stars of Vehicles, and 3 stars of Infantry has not changed at all over the centuries. While the introduction of Elementals may have altered the amount of infantrymen in the standard Spirit cluster the identical number of subunits. (Field Manual Crusader Clans page 25-26)
While Quicksilver has bought change in the quality of equipment (Zombie OmniMechs replacing standard BattleMechs and OmniVehicles replacing Conventional Vehicles) the Spirits traditional unit structure remains wholly unchanged. Their standard Front Line Cluster now has 45 Zombie OmniMechs (slower than average but inexpensive, tough and reliable), 30 OmniVehicles (likely their fastest battlefield assets on average), and 75 Elementals (armored infantry utilizing standard Clan suits).
Second Line Clusters have 45 BattleMechs (castoffs from Front Line units which could not be modularized), 30 Vehicles (TRO3060 minus the Epona, probably heavier and slower than their frontline cousins), and 375 Infantry (75 Squads = 15 Points = 3 Stars = 1 Trinary). Well suited to garrison duty these units have actually increased (more Clusters under arms) the most thanks to surplus equipment.
Aerospace support was never directly attached and little detail is given on the Blood Spirit Aerospace Forces. So we can speculate somewhat saying these units are split into frontline (OmniFighter) and second line (Aerospace Fighters) like their ground force brethren. I think most are assembled in Trinary size groups – really doubt they have entire aerospace clusters. Some are likely tasked with ground support, others naval, while a small number of specialized trinaries could exist dedicated to Recon, Interception, etc.
Their high level of participation in the Zombie BattleMech category makes it unlikely that this poorer Clan which leveraged itself pretty intensely to Diamond Shark in order to make dramatic improvements makes it unlikely that they will be able to start dropship manufacturing even if they wanted to. Neither their holdings on York or Arcadia have any noted construction shipyards further diminishing their likely hood of fielding new dropship designs.
Trading away warships long ago to the Snow Ravens and thus minimizing their navy may have had a negative effect on their space-based facilities anyhow. Never known as an industrial power and a Clan which prides itself on not relying on a technological crutch new cutting-edge new designs may again be out of the question.
Their current fleet of dropships likely is composed of older refits with older familiar Clan favorites such as Broadsword, Confederate, Sassanid, Union-C, Carrier, Lion, Overlord-C, and Titan-C. These nine however might already be joined by an old Vehicle Carrier which they would require to transport their forces into battle. So a refitted classic like my proposed Condor IIC, the Fury IIC, or the Seeker IIC (which I had planned as a Blood Spirit design) could be in unheralded service for years at this time.
Likely overlooked by the other Clans as an inferior transport because of what it carriers the Seeker IIC could indeed be the Blood Spirit stand bye. The Seeker was on the Hegemony Blacklist according to my assertions as it has different intro dates and weighs in at 6,700 tons. With a speed of 5/8 it is pretty fast and can insert 30 Heavy Vehicles and 75 Elementals in combat rapidly.
-
The problem with the Spirits is that whilst they are doctrinarily pure, they are resource poor to say the least. If they have any old DropShips I doubt honestly that they would even bother updating them purely because of the lack of resources and yard space available to them.
Whilst we could look towards the Spirits as a kind of template to use for the layout of a standarized formation to help with the construction of DropShip forces. Using the Spirits themselves might be difficult in lore.
-
Titan IIC
As one of the most common carriers in SLDF service, many Titans survived the Amaris Civil War to join General Kerensky on Operation EXODUS and were present when the colonies in the Kerensky Cluster were founded.
Although the Civil War was hard on the ships, many still survived and with the formation of the Clans the class recived a modest refit, if only to alter its fighter compliment to match Clan deployment standards, turning a Medium Carrier DropShip into a heavy carrier. But with its nature being seen as secondary by almost all of the Clans, who used the Titan to carry fighters from orbit to the surface or to act as a mobile airbase, the ships weapons were not overhauled and on the outbreak of REVIVAL, the Titan’s of the Clans were still armed with their old fashioned SLDF era weapons. Perfectly capable against an Inner Sphere pilot but lacking against the Clans.
This wasn’t seen as a drawback, as DropShips were very rarely targeted during fighting and this lack of a defensive armament wasn’t seen as a drawback. But during REVIVAL the hitherto sacrosanct nature of DropShips in Clan service came under attack again and again when Inner Sphere forces realised quite early on that the best way to slow and hurt the unknown attackers was to destroy their transports in space before they could land their Mechs. The painful losses of five Overlords and the crippling of seven others in engagements prior to Tukkayid sounded the alarms but it took the Election of the new ilKhan and the Quicksilver program to get someone to take notice.
As their primary ‘heavy mover’ of fighters, the Titan was suddenly very obsolete in a modern engagement and easy meat for any fighters that punched through its fighter screen and this needed to be addressed urgently. Whilst the Jaguars were championing their Miraborg class DropShip and using it as a bargaining chip to get additional Mech production off other Clans, something still needed to be done with the rather huge number of Titan’s the Clans had in service as scrapping them simply wasn’t an option. Both Clan Cloud Cobra and Snow Raven, Clans who had the largest number of Titans in service and reserve declared they would work together to produce a refit package for the Titan under the Quicksilver aegis and then went to work.
The Titan was a fast ship for its size, capable of matching the speeds of older Assault DropShips, but it lacked the firepower to follow its fighters into battle and the protection to endure the fire it would invariably take. The huge engines were down-rated, mirroring the Union-C’s performance in space but exceeding it in atmosphere thanks to its aerodyne body. This freed up a considerable amount of space and weight which was used to increase the fuel tanks and cargo to increase range and endurance. The armour package was stripped and replaced with Ferro-Aluminium, which saved weight and increased protection as well as significantly altering the Titan’s lines.
The weapons package was also removed, the old SLDF weapons replaced with lighter and more efficient Clan made ones. A trio of Gauss rifles in the nose formed the main punch whilst autocannons, LRMs, ER and pulse lasers made the ship a prickly target for any attacker. A dozen AMS mountings also shielded the craft from hostile missile attacks. To coordinate her fighter group a hefty communications suite was installed as well as additional sensors and electronics as well as room for the personnel who would man this equipment. Finally a Point of Elementals could also be carried aboard for protection against boarding actions. The biggest structural change came with the re-working of the hangars. The Titan featured three hangars, each with their own cargo bay, but the layout of the bay and hangar meant that to reload the cargo, the hangars had to be cleared first and this was a clunky and somewhat clumsy way of doing things.
The third bay and hangar was elimitated whilst Hangars 1 and 2 were enlarged to carry 15 fighter apiece and their cargo bay was also enlarged. This had the added effect of cleaning up the Titan’s profile, which, along with the addition of larger wing areas increased its performance in an atmosphere and eliminated some of the vicious handling flaws the Titan had when the craft was landing.
Whilst technically still a Titan class ship, the changes were extensive enough to have the design renamed the Hadan, or Storm in Monglian.
Titan IIC Dropship
Base Tech Level: Standard (Clan)
Level Era
-------------------
Experimental -
Advanced -
Standard 3145+
Tech Rating: F/X-X-X-E
Weight: 12000 tons
BV: 12,623
Cost: 710,172,000 C-bills
Movement: 4/6
Heat Sinks: 146 [292]
Fuel Points: 0/15000 (500.0 tons)
Tons Per Burn Day: 1.84
Structural Integrity: 18
Armor: 1130 (Ferro-Aluminum)
Armor
-------------------
Nose 328
Left Side 272
Right Side 272
Aft 258
Weapons Loc Heat
-----------------------------------------------
AC Bay NOS 3
Gauss Rifle
Gauss Rifle
Gauss Rifle
Gauss Rifle Ammo [Clan] 144
LBX AC Bay LS 4
LB 10-X AC
LB 10-X AC
LB 10-X Cluster Ammo 80
LBX AC Bay RS 4
LB 10-X AC
LB 10-X AC
LB 10-X Cluster Ammo 80
LBX AC Bay AFT 4
LB 10-X AC
LB 10-X AC
LB 10-X Cluster Ammo 80
LRM Bay NOS 18
LRM 20
LRM 20
LRM 20
LRM 20 (Clan) Artemis-capable Ammo 108
LRM Bay LS 12
LRM 20
LRM 20
LRM 20 (Clan) Artemis-capable Ammo 72
LRM Bay RS 12
LRM 20
LRM 20
LRM 20 (Clan) Artemis-capable Ammo 72
LRM Bay AFT 12
LRM 20
LRM 20
LRM 20 (Clan) Artemis-capable Ammo 72
Laser Bay LS 36
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
Laser Bay RS 36
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
Pulse Laser Bay NOS 42
Large Pulse Laser
Large Pulse Laser
Large Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Pulse Laser Bay AFT 42
Large Pulse Laser
Large Pulse Laser
Large Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
AMS Bay NOS 2
Anti-Missile System
Anti-Missile System
Anti-Missile System Ammo [Clan] 288
AMS Bay LS 2
Anti-Missile System
Anti-Missile System
Anti-Missile System Ammo [Clan] 288
AMS Bay RS 2
Anti-Missile System
Anti-Missile System
Anti-Missile System Ammo [Clan] 288
AMS Bay AFT 2
Anti-Missile System
Anti-Missile System
Anti-Missile System Ammo [Clan] 288
Pulse Laser Bay LS 12
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Pulse Laser Bay RS 12
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Equipment Loc
----------------------------------------
Artemis IV FCS NOS
Artemis IV FCS NOS
Artemis IV FCS NOS
Artemis IV FCS LS
Artemis IV FCS LS
Artemis IV FCS RS
Artemis IV FCS RS
Artemis IV FCS AFT
Artemis IV FCS AFT
Communications Equipment (10 ton) NOS
Carrying Capacity
-----------------
Aerospace Fighter (3 doors) - 15 units (2 recovery open)
Aerospace Fighter (3 doors) - 15 units (2 recovery open)
Cargo Space (1 door) - 1,053 tons
Cargo Space (1 door) - 1,053 tons
Crew
----------------------
Officers 5
Enlisted/Non-rated 17
Gunners 7
Bay Personnel 60
BA Marines 5
5 x Escape Pods
5 x Lifeboats
The problem in my mind with the Titan is first, why wasn't it ever upgraded, and second, why's it so damn fast? Its not really got the guns to go in supporting its fighters, and I don't think using Megamek's dropship builder you can make a 5/8 titan actually fit on 12,000 tons, something just seems off about it.
She's a CV, she's got more fighters than most cruisers, so having her going galavanting off towards the enemy is dumb as all hell, have her hang back, and be armed enough to defend herself.
*edit*
I was wrong, you can make a 5/8 Titan, barely, she's still under weight a bit and you can't have anywhere near the number of doors she's got but you can make it. and she's still rubbish.
-
Looking at Operation Klondike to get an idea of what types of dropships the Clans have available besides what they've produced since
We find they had;
- Fortress
- Gazelle
- Triumph
- Overlord
- Mule
- Union
- Buccaneer
- Dictator
- Vulture
- Monarch
- Colossus
pg 146 Operation Klondike
probably the majority of what they brought for Military purposes
Notable is there are no Carriers in this group and we know they have some Titan C Dropships
-
Triumph C possible Vehicle Transport for Blood Spirit
Triumph C
Base Tech Level: Standard (Clan)
Weight: 8000 tons
BV: 10,137
Cost: 568,951,200 C-bills
Movement: 4/6
Heat Sinks: 124 [248]
Fuel Points: 7500/9000 (300.0 tons)
Tons Per Burn Day: 1.84
Structural Integrity: 11
Armor: 737
Armor
-------------------
Nose 220
Left Side 180
Right Side 180
Aft 157
Weapons Loc Heat
-----------------------------------------------
PPC Bay NOS 60
ER PPC
ER PPC
ER PPC
ER PPC
AC Bay NOS 4
Gauss Rifle
Gauss Rifle
Gauss Rifle
Gauss Rifle
Gauss Rifle Ammo [Clan] 160
Laser Bay LS 36
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
Laser Bay RS 36
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
LRM Bay LS 12
LRM 20
LRM 20
LRM 20 (Clan) Artemis-capable Ammo 60
LRM Bay RS 12
LRM 20
LRM 20
LRM 20 (Clan) Artemis-capable Ammo 60
Laser Bay AFT 24
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
Pulse Laser Bay NOS 16
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Pulse Laser Bay RS 16
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Pulse Laser Bay LS 16
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Pulse Laser Bay AFT 16
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Equipment Loc
---------------------
Artemis IV FCS RS
Artemis IV FCS RS
Artemis IV FCS LS
Artemis IV FCS LS
Carrying Capacity
-----------------
Heavy Vehicle Bay (2 doors) - 30 units
Infantry Bay (1 door) - 10.0 Foot platoons
Infantry Bay (1 door) - 5.0 Jump platoons
Battle Armor Bay (2 doors) - 15 Points
Cargo Space (1 door) - 1,348.500 tons
Crew
-----------------------
Officers 3
Enlisted/Non-rated 38
Gunners 6
Bay Personnel 680
-
Oops those were the Pentagon Powers Dropships here were the Clans
Vengeance
Fortress
Intruder
Dictator
Mule
Overlord
Union
Triumph
Colossus
Pentagon
Achilles
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No Titan? I am sure that is an oversight.
Yeah I doubt the Arcadia (a new design) as is could be advanced especially by the Blood Spirits. They simply can't afford it.
What I am saying is the omission of a vehicle carrier likely a classic (Condor, Triumph, or Seeker) is just an oversight due to the Clans attitudes to vehicles. One has existed all this time but due to prejudice and Clan norms a report was never generated. No Clan save Blood Spirit (and Hell's Horses) really deploys Vehicles in front line service so up to Quicksilver it is likely said Vehicle Carrier would be exclusive to their Clan. My contention something has existed to move these assets which may expand following the Quicksilver Trials.
-
Any thoughts on the Titan II?
-
Instead of the 10 ton Communication Gear was there anyway to do the small Naval Command module. That was my only thought.
Other than that I loved the fluff and was the Clans I thought that would be involved with its rebirth.
Were there any Titans that were associated with flight / space or something else that would fit well with the design. I'm not a fan of IIC or C names for the most part.
-
Yeah I doubt the Arcadia (a new design) as is could be advanced especially by the Blood Spirits. They simply can't afford it.
What I am saying is the omission of a vehicle carrier likely a classic (Condor, Triumph, or Seeker) is just an oversight due to the Clans attitudes to vehicles. One has existed all this time but due to prejudice and Clan norms a report was never generated. No Clan save Blood Spirit (and Hell's Horses) really deploys Vehicles in front line service so up to Quicksilver it is likely said Vehicle Carrier would be exclusive to their Clan. My contention something has existed to move these assets which may expand following the Quicksilver Trials.
Could switch the Arcadia to another Clan. If keeping Protomechs Smoke Jaguar makes sense as they are the designers of them. I upgraded the original to include a trinary of Battlearmor as well as the trinary of Protomechs.
I think the Colossus was their go to carrier of vehicles. It carrier 72 so even unmodified thats two trinaries + of Vehicles.
Triumph was on the list and it can carry something like 3 companies I believe
Fortress could carry a company
Dictator Command Variants could carry 18
They definitely could carry their vehicles without needing additional ones.
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Its why I went with the Mongol name of Storm for them, the IIC is just a standby. As for titan names..how about using Stars?
Canopus, Andromeda etc, that could work?
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I like Andromeda. Zeus would also work as the is the god of the sky and the son of a Titan. And if you back date the construction of the Titan C to before Invasion. Clans wouldn't even know the name was already used by Lyrans for the mech because I think it was built after exodus or maybe right before. And either way its not like BT hasn't used same name for multiple designs.
Just looked it up and yea Zeus mech came out 3 years after Kerensky left.
Or other Wind Deities
Aeolus, god and Ruler of the Winds
Anemoi, were Greek wind gods.
Boreas, god of the north wind and of winter.
Eurus, god of the unlucky east or southeast wind.
Notus, god of the south wind.
Zephyrus, god of the west wind.
Aparctias, another name for the north wind (not identified with Boreas).
Apheliotes, god of the east wind (when Eurus is considered southeast).
Argestes, another name for the west or northwest wind.
Caicias, god of the northeast wind.
Circios or Thraskias, god of the north-northwest wind.
Euronotus, god of the southeast wind.
Lips, god of the southwest wind.
Skeiron, god of the northwest wind.
Apollo, god of storms and favorable winds. (again already used and bad connotations as was captiol of Rim Worlds)
Aura (Breeze).
Aurai, nymphs of the breezes.
Dioscuri, or Castor and Pollux, they were protectors of sailors and received sacrifices for favorable winds.
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There's also naval names, Victory, Saratoga etc
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(https://pre00.deviantart.net/a469/th/pre/f/2014/033/e/d/scvn_saratoga_ortho_by_unusualsuspex-d74mf95.jpg)
Love it just because was name from a great Sci Fi show
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:D :D The star/god names work well, you could also go with battles/invasions etc for DropShips which kind of keeps in line with Overlord etc.
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:D :D The star/god names work well, you could also go with battles/invasions etc for DropShips which kind of keeps in line with Overlord etc.
Since the Clans have naming patterns for other designs we should settle on one for Dropships and Warships.
Dropships seem to be names Myraborg, Noruff, Mercer
Warships would probably be good for Battles or Stars
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Space Above & Beyond was a great show certainly.
I am sorry marauder648, not trying to comment on specific design proposals cause I did not ask for any. Love the competitive spirit of the Quicksilver Trials and I'd love to try to keep it going right through dropships.
That said a couple of things I can say. The Titan-C may indeed be in line for an upgrade especially in light of the Miraborg trying to replace it and InnerSphere combat tactics threatening so many older craft as you point out.
Also I have decided to discontinue my IIC designation plan for dropships and simply go with the -C addition to the original name plus a new name. Haven't narrowed down the new name convention if it will be an InnerSphere designator or a theme called for by the ilKhan.
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*quietly suggests the name Thunderchild be brought up somewhere* :D
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I just reread the rules for Dropship Construction instead of just utilizing MekLab for it to see if there was anything I was missing. As I started working on Dawn League things in my spare time. I didn't realize Quarters had changed or that I misremembered it. I've been assuming First Class and Standard handled a single person a piece. Second Class was 2 person and Steerage was 4.
So in other words I didn't realize each person (bay and crew) needed to be accounted for when it came to the quarters. I think the large troop carriers will need to be looked at again or at least I need to with my designs.
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I just reread the rules for Dropship Construction instead of just utilizing MekLab for it to see if there was anything I was missing. As I started working on Dawn League things in my spare time. I didn't realize Quarters had changed or that I misremembered it. I've been assuming First Class and Standard handled a single person a piece. Second Class was 2 person and Steerage was 4.
So in other words I didn't realize each person (bay and crew) needed to be accounted for when it came to the quarters. I think the large troop carriers will need to be looked at again or at least I need to with my designs.
No, if I remember correctly, you pay 5.0 tons for a single steerage, 7.0 for a single standard, and 10.0 for a 1st-class. That is the tonnage per individual. It is just that most ships put two standard compartments together house two people and most steerage compartments sleep four.
Remember, the tonnage isn't just for a bed and private stateroom. It also accounts for rec facilities, mess halls, medical facilities, etc, etc.
Bay personnel--by the rules as written--do not require any compartments. They are supposed to be housed in the bay. So each 'Mech or fighter carried (at 150 tons) contains the cradle to hold the unit, gantries to move it, possibly a drop chute, repair scaffolding, and bunks for a the MechWarrior (or Pilot) and a Tech. Vehicle bays house four (plus a Tech) for a light vehicle and seven (plus a Tech) for a heavy vehicle.
But in my own head canon, I always go ahead and assign dedicated staterooms. Because it doesn't seem to me to make a lot of sense (especially for vehicles) that you can fit that many people into the space and still have room for the vehicle (or 'mech or fighter, etc.) and expect them to get any rest. Much less have a place to eat, lavatories, medical support, entertainment, etc., etc.
MA
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Thanks i had to go back after i read it and i missed a key "not" in the sentence. I also didn't realize in another spot where i was reading it was for other vehicles and not dropships. Teaches me not to solely rely on just keyword searches on ebooks
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Developed by Clan Diamond Shark the Airavata was designed to produce a modern DropShip that could carry a large amount of cargo in safety, able to defend itself from Bandit Caste raids or the predations of overly aggressive Clans. Heavily influenced by the SLDF's CargoKing class that was just entering service at the start of the Amaris Crisis the schematics were found in a near forgotten database. With over 9,000 tons of cargo onboard the new design carries more than a Mule and has a far better internal layout to load and unload cargo, with loading times reduced by up to 15%. Although called the Airavata, named after a Hindi God's Elephant mount, the unofficial name that stuck was 'CargoKhan'.
The considerable armament also worried some Warriors in other Clans and they demanded that a less well protected ship be built out of fear of arming Merchants and other Lower Castes. This variant stripped armament down to a battery of ER Small lasers that were more of a deterrent than a real offensive weapon. But the cargo space jumped up to 9105 tons vs 9020 tons on the better armed Mk 1 CargoKhan. The Mk II is also cheaper to produce and is being produced in large numbers for the Free Guilds and is a common sight in Clan Space.
The introduction of the CargoKhan allowed the Clans to start replacing their oldest transports and those that were in the worst material condition, the older DropShips would be scrapped and recycled, allowing the materials used in their hulls to be used in the construction of new ships, Mech's or other important materials.
Airavata 'CargoKhan' Dropship
Base Tech Level: Standard (Clan)
Level Era
-------------------
Experimental -
Advanced -
Standard 3145+
Tech Rating: F/X-X-X-D
Weight: 12500 tons
BV: 4,528
Cost: 301,830,032 C-bills
Movement: 3/5
Heat Sinks: 128 [256]
Fuel Points: 0/10830 (361.0 tons)
Tons Per Burn Day: 1.84
Structural Integrity: 21
Armor: 349 (Ferro-Aluminum)
Armor
-------------------
Nose 94
Left Side 86
Right Side 86
Aft 83
Weapons Loc Heat
-----------------------------------
Laser Bay NOS 24
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
PPC Bay NOS 45
ER PPC
ER PPC
ER PPC
Laser Bay LS 12
ER Large Laser
PPC Bay LS 15
ER PPC
Pulse Laser Bay LS 8
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Laser Bay RS 12
ER Large Laser
PPC Bay RS 15
ER PPC
Pulse Laser Bay RS 8
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Pulse Laser Bay (R) LS 8
Medium Pulse Laser (R)
Medium Pulse Laser (R)
Pulse Laser Bay (R) RS 8
Medium Pulse Laser (R)
Medium Pulse Laser (R)
Laser Bay (R) LS 12
ER Large Laser (R)
PPC Bay (R) LS 15
ER PPC (R)
Laser Bay (R) RS 12
ER Large Laser (R)
PPC Bay (R) RS 15
ER PPC (R)
Laser Bay AFT 12
ER Large Laser
Pulse Laser Bay AFT 8
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Carrying Capacity
-----------------
Cargo Space (2 doors) - 2,280 tons
Cargo Space (2 doors) - 2,280 tons
Cargo Space (2 doors) - 2,230 tons
Cargo Space (2 doors) - 2,230 tons
Crew
---------------------
Officers 0
Enlisted/Non-rated 7
Gunners 5
Bay Personnel 0
Airavata 'CargoKhan' Dropship Mk II
Base Tech Level: Standard (Clan)
Level Era
-------------------
Experimental -
Advanced -
Standard 3145+
Tech Rating: F/X-X-X-D
Weight: 12500 tons
BV: 1,217
Cost: 192,028,032 C-bills
Movement: 3/5
Heat Sinks: 124 [248]
Fuel Points: 0/10830 (361.0 tons)
Tons Per Burn Day: 1.84
Structural Integrity: 21
Armor: 349 (Ferro-Aluminum)
Armor
-------------------
Nose 94
Left Side 86
Right Side 86
Aft 83
Weapons Loc Heat
-------------------------------
Laser Bay LS 6
ER Small Laser
ER Small Laser
ER Small Laser
Laser Bay NOS 6
ER Small Laser
ER Small Laser
ER Small Laser
Laser Bay RS 6
ER Small Laser
ER Small Laser
ER Small Laser
Laser Bay (R) LS 6
ER Small Laser (R)
ER Small Laser (R)
ER Small Laser (R)
Laser Bay AFT 6
ER Small Laser
ER Small Laser
ER Small Laser
Laser Bay (R) RS 6
ER Small Laser (R)
ER Small Laser (R)
ER Small Laser (R)
Carrying Capacity
-----------------
Cargo Space (2 doors) - 2,280 tons
Cargo Space (2 doors) - 2,280 tons
Cargo Space (2 doors) - 2,280 tons
Cargo Space (2 doors) - 2,265 tons
Crew
---------------------
Officers 0
Enlisted/Non-rated 7
Gunners 5
Bay Personnel 0
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I so want to design something now named King Khan lol
Nice design as usual something I could easily seeing Diamond Shark producing as well.
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Thank ya :) Takiro inspired the name so blame him :D
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Thank ya :) Takiro inspired the name so blame him :D
Threw this together real quick lol
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/70/50/3b/70503bc918f52ffa32410bb9f0de68fa.jpg)
Fire Mandrill new Totem Mech perhaps
King Khan
Base Tech Level: Standard (Clan)
Level Era
-------------------
Experimental -
Advanced -
Standard 3010+
Tech Rating: F/X-F-D-D
Weight: 75 tons
BV: 2,702
Cost: 15,541,750 C-bills
Movement: 4/6
Engine: 300 XL
Double Heat Sinks: 16 [32]
Gyro: Standard Gyro
Internal: 122
Armor: 224/247
Internal Armor
----------------------------------------
Head 3 9
Center Torso 23 31
Center Torso (rear) 10
Right Torso 16 24
Right Torso (rear) 7
Left Torso 16 24
Left Torso (rear) 7
Front Right Leg 16 28
Front Left Leg 16 28
Rear Right Leg 16 28
Rear Left Leg 16 28
Weapons Loc Heat
------------------------
ER PPC RT 15
ER PPC RT 15
Gauss Rifle LT 1
Ammo Loc Shots
-------------------------------------
Gauss Rifle Ammo [Clan] LT 24
Equipment Loc
--------------------------------
Targeting Computer [Clan] RT
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Ooooh! And I always loved that Zoid.
Yas this will do very nicely :D Get those dumb monkies to actually work together.
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Threaddrifter! I have to say a few Fire Mandrill Quicksilver Mechs which I loved didn't make it. The Silverback and Fire Ant being my favorite two.
With a name like Airavata I was expecting a new Elephant class Tug although the CargoKhan might just be too good to turn down.
I will try to redo the dropship plan tonight as I think we made significant progress here. Stay tuned and on topic!
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So while BSing on Saturday with Takiro we talked a little about Dropships and the direction he might eventually go in. An idea that we batted back and forth was size and such.
So the Odyssey Jumpship they produce has 4 Docking points so with that as the delivery vehicle we have 4 potential dropships to use for delivery of a Cluster in my mind.
Not truly modular but the same chassis and armament but just changing around the bays for their needs.
Mech Carrier
Base Tech Level: Standard (Clan)
Weight: 15000 tons
BV: 12,809
Cost: 714,600,000 C-bills
Movement: 4/6
Heat Sinks: 220 [440]
Fuel Points: 15000 (500.0 tons)
Tons Per Burn Day: 1.84
Structural Integrity: 20
Armor: 1592 (Ferro-Aluminum)
Armor
-------------------
Nose 450
Left Side 400
Right Side 400
Aft 342
Weapons Loc Heat
-------------------------------
Laser Bay NOS 48
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
PPC Bay NOS 60
ER PPC
ER PPC
ER PPC
ER PPC
Pulse Laser Bay NOS 16
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Laser Bay RS 48
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
PPC Bay RS 60
ER PPC
ER PPC
ER PPC
ER PPC
Pulse Laser Bay RS 8
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Laser Bay LS 48
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
PPC Bay LS 60
ER PPC
ER PPC
ER PPC
ER PPC
Pulse Laser Bay LS 8
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Laser Bay AFT 48
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
Pulse Laser Bay AFT 32
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Carrying Capacity
-----------------
Mech (2 doors) - 15 units
Mech (2 doors) - 15 units
Mech (2 doors) - 15 units
Aerospace Fighter (2 doors) - 4 units (2 recovery open)
Cargo Space (0 doors) - 1,318 tons
Crew
----------------------
Officers 3
Enlisted/Non-rated 4
Gunners 8
Bay Personnel 98
BA & Vehicle Carrier
Base Tech Level: Standard (Clan)
Weight: 15000 tons
BV: 12,809
Cost: 742,680,000 C-bills
Movement: 4/6
Heat Sinks: 220 [440]
Fuel Points: 15000 (500.0 tons)
Tons Per Burn Day: 1.84
Structural Integrity: 20
Armor: 1592 (Ferro-Aluminum)
Armor
-------------------
Nose 450
Left Side 400
Right Side 400
Aft 342
Weapons Loc Heat
-------------------------------
Laser Bay NOS 48
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
PPC Bay NOS 60
ER PPC
ER PPC
ER PPC
ER PPC
Pulse Laser Bay NOS 16
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Laser Bay RS 48
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
PPC Bay RS 60
ER PPC
ER PPC
ER PPC
ER PPC
Pulse Laser Bay RS 8
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Laser Bay LS 48
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
PPC Bay LS 60
ER PPC
ER PPC
ER PPC
ER PPC
Pulse Laser Bay LS 8
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Laser Bay AFT 48
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
Pulse Laser Bay AFT 32
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Carrying Capacity
-----------------
Aerospace Fighter (2 doors) - 4 units (2 recovery open)
Small Craft (2 doors) - 4 units (2 recovery open)
Battle Armor Bay (2 doors) - 15 Points
Heavy Vehicle Bay (2 doors) - 30 units
Cargo Space (0 doors) - 4,118 tons
Crew
-----------------------
Officers 3
Enlisted/Non-rated 4
Gunners 8
Bay Personnel 358
Aerospace Carrier
Base Tech Level: Standard (Clan)
Weight: 15000 tons
BV: 12,809
Cost: 700,488,000 C-bills
Movement: 4/6
Heat Sinks: 220 [440]
Fuel Points: 15000 (500.0 tons)
Tons Per Burn Day: 1.84
Structural Integrity: 20
Armor: 1592 (Ferro-Aluminum)
Armor
-------------------
Nose 450
Left Side 400
Right Side 400
Aft 342
Weapons Loc Heat
-------------------------------
Laser Bay NOS 48
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
PPC Bay NOS 60
ER PPC
ER PPC
ER PPC
ER PPC
Pulse Laser Bay NOS 16
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Laser Bay RS 48
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
PPC Bay RS 60
ER PPC
ER PPC
ER PPC
ER PPC
Pulse Laser Bay RS 8
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Laser Bay LS 48
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
PPC Bay LS 60
ER PPC
ER PPC
ER PPC
ER PPC
Pulse Laser Bay LS 8
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Laser Bay AFT 48
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
ER Large Laser
Pulse Laser Bay AFT 32
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Carrying Capacity
-----------------
Aerospace Fighter (4 doors) - 30 units (2 recovery open)
Small Craft (2 doors) - 4 units (2 recovery open)
Cargo Space (0 doors) - 3,368 tons
Crew
----------------------
Officers 3
Enlisted/Non-rated 4
Gunners 8
Bay Personnel 80
Each has 20 Life Boats and enough quarters first or standard for their crews.
I would think the 4th dropship would either be an assault dropship or cargo carrier depending upon need.