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Author Topic: Quicksilver Dropships  (Read 37486 times)

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Takiro

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Re: Quicksilver Dropships
« Reply #105 on: September 11, 2018, 04:46:09 PM »

An expedited Arcadia would be good but what transport role would serve without ProtoMechs? Essentially it is a raider which can get there and contest enemy challenges in different places. It has a place certainly.

My upgraded Clan Achilles is the Hector made by Ice Hellion.

https://www.ourbattletech.com/forum/index.php?topic=2938.msg39368#msg39368
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Takiro

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Re: Quicksilver Dropships
« Reply #106 on: September 12, 2018, 10:38:16 PM »

Okay folks took a little while to assemble but here it is an organizational look at the first Clan, Blood Spirit. I included thoughts on Quicksilver, industry, dropship needs, fiscal capabilities, and a lot of other relevant thoughts. Love to here what you think before we move on to the next Clan.

Blood Spirit
Perhaps the easiest unit structure to understand as it follows Nicholas Kerensky’s original outline without variation. This orthodox arrangement of 9 stars of ‘Mechs, 3 stars of Vehicles, and 3 stars of Infantry has not changed at all over the centuries. While the introduction of Elementals may have altered the amount of infantrymen in the standard Spirit cluster the identical number of subunits. (Field Manual Crusader Clans page 25-26)
While Quicksilver has bought change in the quality of equipment (Zombie OmniMechs replacing standard BattleMechs and OmniVehicles replacing Conventional Vehicles) the Spirits traditional unit structure remains wholly unchanged. Their standard Front Line Cluster now has 45 Zombie OmniMechs (slower than average but inexpensive, tough and reliable), 30 OmniVehicles (likely their fastest battlefield assets on average), and 75 Elementals (armored infantry utilizing standard Clan suits).
Second Line Clusters have 45 BattleMechs (castoffs from Front Line units which could not be modularized), 30 Vehicles (TRO3060 minus the Epona, probably heavier and slower than their frontline cousins), and 375 Infantry (75 Squads = 15 Points = 3 Stars = 1 Trinary). Well suited to garrison duty these units have actually increased (more Clusters under arms) the most thanks to surplus equipment.
Aerospace support was never directly attached and little detail is given on the Blood Spirit Aerospace Forces. So we can speculate somewhat saying these units are split into frontline (OmniFighter) and second line (Aerospace Fighters) like their ground force brethren. I think most are assembled in Trinary size groups – really doubt they have entire aerospace clusters. Some are likely tasked with ground support, others naval, while a small number of specialized trinaries could exist dedicated to Recon, Interception, etc. 
Their high level of participation in the Zombie BattleMech category makes it unlikely that this poorer Clan which leveraged itself pretty intensely to Diamond Shark in order to make dramatic improvements makes it unlikely that they will be able to start dropship manufacturing even if they wanted to. Neither their holdings on York or Arcadia have any noted construction shipyards further diminishing their likely hood of fielding new dropship designs.
Trading away warships long ago to the Snow Ravens and thus minimizing their navy may have had a negative effect on their space-based facilities anyhow. Never known as an industrial power and a Clan which prides itself on not relying on a technological crutch new cutting-edge new designs may again be out of the question.
Their current fleet of dropships likely is composed of older refits with older familiar Clan favorites such as Broadsword, Confederate, Sassanid, Union-C, Carrier, Lion, Overlord-C, and Titan-C. These nine however might already be joined by an old Vehicle Carrier which they would require to transport their forces into battle. So a refitted classic like my proposed Condor IIC, the Fury IIC, or the Seeker IIC (which I had planned as a Blood Spirit design) could be in unheralded service for years at this time.
Likely overlooked by the other Clans as an inferior transport because of what it carriers the Seeker IIC could indeed be the Blood Spirit stand bye. The Seeker was on the Hegemony Blacklist according to my assertions as it has different intro dates and weighs in at 6,700 tons. With a speed of 5/8 it is pretty fast and can insert 30 Heavy Vehicles and 75 Elementals in combat rapidly.
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marauder648

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Re: Quicksilver Dropships
« Reply #107 on: September 13, 2018, 08:05:38 AM »

The problem with the Spirits is that whilst they are doctrinarily pure, they are resource poor to say the least.  If they have any old DropShips I doubt honestly that they would even bother updating them purely because of the lack of resources and yard space available to them.

Whilst we could look towards the Spirits as a kind of template to use for the layout of a standarized formation to help with the construction of DropShip forces.  Using the Spirits themselves might be difficult in lore.
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marauder648

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Re: Quicksilver Dropships
« Reply #108 on: September 13, 2018, 09:37:34 AM »

Titan IIC

As one of the most common carriers in SLDF service, many Titans survived the Amaris Civil War to join General Kerensky on Operation EXODUS and were present when the colonies in the Kerensky Cluster were founded.
Although the Civil War was hard on the ships, many still survived and with the formation of the Clans the class recived a modest refit, if only to alter its fighter compliment to match Clan deployment standards, turning a Medium Carrier DropShip into a heavy carrier.  But with its nature being seen as secondary by almost all of the Clans, who used the Titan to carry fighters from orbit to the surface or to act as a mobile airbase, the ships weapons were not overhauled and on the outbreak of REVIVAL, the Titan’s of the Clans were still armed with their old fashioned SLDF era weapons.  Perfectly capable against an Inner Sphere pilot but lacking against the Clans.

This wasn’t seen as a drawback, as DropShips were very rarely targeted during fighting and this lack of a defensive armament wasn’t seen as a drawback.  But during REVIVAL the hitherto sacrosanct nature of DropShips in Clan service came under attack again and again when Inner Sphere forces realised  quite early on that the best way to slow and hurt the unknown attackers was to destroy their transports in space before they could land their Mechs.  The painful losses of five Overlords and the crippling of seven others in engagements prior to Tukkayid sounded the alarms but it took the Election of the new ilKhan and the Quicksilver program to get someone to take notice.

As their primary ‘heavy mover’ of fighters, the Titan was suddenly very obsolete in a modern engagement and easy meat for any fighters that punched through its fighter screen and this needed to be addressed urgently.  Whilst the Jaguars were championing their Miraborg class DropShip and using it as a bargaining chip to get additional Mech production off other Clans, something still needed to be done with the rather huge number of Titan’s the Clans had in service as scrapping them simply wasn’t an option.  Both Clan Cloud Cobra and Snow Raven, Clans who had the largest number of Titans in service and reserve declared they would work together to produce a refit package for the Titan under the Quicksilver aegis and then went to work.

The Titan was a fast ship for its size, capable of matching the speeds of older Assault DropShips, but it lacked the firepower to follow its fighters into battle and the protection to endure the fire it would invariably take.  The huge engines were down-rated, mirroring the Union-C’s performance in space but exceeding it in atmosphere thanks to its aerodyne body.  This freed up a considerable amount of space and weight which was used to increase the fuel tanks and cargo to increase range and endurance.  The armour package was stripped and replaced with Ferro-Aluminium, which saved weight and increased protection as well as significantly altering the Titan’s lines.

The weapons package was also removed, the old SLDF weapons replaced with lighter and more efficient Clan made ones.  A trio of Gauss rifles in the nose formed the main punch whilst autocannons, LRMs, ER and pulse lasers made the ship a prickly target for any attacker.  A dozen AMS mountings also shielded the craft from hostile missile attacks.  To coordinate her fighter group a hefty communications suite was installed as well as additional sensors and electronics as well as room for the personnel who would man this equipment.  Finally a Point of Elementals could also be carried aboard for protection against boarding actions.  The biggest structural change came with the re-working of the hangars.  The Titan featured three hangars, each with their own cargo bay, but the layout of the bay and hangar meant that to reload the cargo, the hangars had to be cleared first and this was a clunky and somewhat clumsy way of doing things. 
The third bay and hangar was elimitated whilst Hangars 1 and 2 were enlarged to carry 15 fighter apiece and their cargo bay was also enlarged.  This had the added effect of cleaning up the Titan’s profile, which, along with the addition of larger wing areas increased its performance in an atmosphere and eliminated some of the vicious handling flaws the Titan had when the craft was landing. 

Whilst technically still a Titan class ship, the changes were extensive enough to have the design renamed the Hadan, or Storm in Monglian.

Code: [Select]
Titan IIC Dropship
Base Tech Level: Standard (Clan)
Level          Era
-------------------
Experimental    - 
Advanced        - 
Standard      3145+
Tech Rating: F/X-X-X-E

Weight: 12000 tons
BV: 12,623
Cost: 710,172,000 C-bills

Movement: 4/6
Heat Sinks: 146 [292]
Fuel Points: 0/15000 (500.0 tons)
Tons Per Burn Day: 1.84

Structural Integrity: 18
Armor: 1130 (Ferro-Aluminum)
            Armor 
-------------------
Nose          328 
Left Side     272 
Right Side    272 
Aft           258 

Weapons                             Loc  Heat 
-----------------------------------------------
AC Bay                              NOS    3   
Gauss Rifle                                   
Gauss Rifle                                   
Gauss Rifle                                   
Gauss Rifle Ammo [Clan]             144 
     
LBX AC Bay                           LS    4   
LB 10-X AC                                     
LB 10-X AC                                     
LB 10-X Cluster Ammo                 80   
     
LBX AC Bay                           RS    4   
LB 10-X AC                                     
LB 10-X AC                                     
LB 10-X Cluster Ammo                 80
       
LBX AC Bay                          AFT    4   
LB 10-X AC                                     
LB 10-X AC                                     
LB 10-X Cluster Ammo                 80
       
LRM Bay                             NOS   18   
LRM 20                                         
LRM 20                                         
LRM 20                                         
LRM 20 (Clan) Artemis-capable Ammo  108
       
LRM Bay                              LS   12   
LRM 20                                         
LRM 20                                         
LRM 20 (Clan) Artemis-capable Ammo   72 
     
LRM Bay                              RS   12   
LRM 20                                         
LRM 20                                         
LRM 20 (Clan) Artemis-capable Ammo   72 
     
LRM Bay                             AFT   12   
LRM 20                                         
LRM 20                                         
LRM 20 (Clan) Artemis-capable Ammo   72
       
Laser Bay                            LS   36   
ER Large Laser                                 
ER Large Laser                                 
ER Large Laser                             
   
Laser Bay                            RS   36   
ER Large Laser                                 
ER Large Laser                                 
ER Large Laser                                 

Pulse Laser Bay                     NOS   42   
Large Pulse Laser                             
Large Pulse Laser                             
Large Pulse Laser                             
Medium Pulse Laser                             
Medium Pulse Laser                             
Medium Pulse Laser                           
 
Pulse Laser Bay                     AFT   42   
Large Pulse Laser                             
Large Pulse Laser                             
Large Pulse Laser                             
Medium Pulse Laser                             
Medium Pulse Laser                             
Medium Pulse Laser                   
         
AMS Bay                             NOS    2   
Anti-Missile System                           
Anti-Missile System                           
Anti-Missile System Ammo [Clan]     288 
     
AMS Bay                              LS    2   
Anti-Missile System                           
Anti-Missile System                           
Anti-Missile System Ammo [Clan]     288 
     
AMS Bay                              RS    2   
Anti-Missile System                           
Anti-Missile System                           
Anti-Missile System Ammo [Clan]     288 
     
AMS Bay                             AFT    2   
Anti-Missile System                           
Anti-Missile System                           
Anti-Missile System Ammo [Clan]     288
       
Pulse Laser Bay                      LS   12   
Medium Pulse Laser                             
Medium Pulse Laser                             
Medium Pulse Laser                       
     
Pulse Laser Bay                      RS   12   
Medium Pulse Laser                             
Medium Pulse Laser                             
Medium Pulse Laser                             


Equipment                          Loc 
----------------------------------------
Artemis IV FCS                     NOS 
Artemis IV FCS                     NOS 
Artemis IV FCS                     NOS 
Artemis IV FCS                      LS 
Artemis IV FCS                      LS 
Artemis IV FCS                      RS 
Artemis IV FCS                      RS 
Artemis IV FCS                     AFT 
Artemis IV FCS                     AFT 
Communications Equipment (10 ton)  NOS 

Carrying Capacity
-----------------
Aerospace Fighter (3 doors) - 15 units (2 recovery open)
Aerospace Fighter (3 doors) - 15 units (2 recovery open)
Cargo Space (1 door) - 1,053 tons
Cargo Space (1 door) - 1,053 tons

Crew                 
----------------------
Officers             5
Enlisted/Non-rated  17
Gunners              7
Bay Personnel       60
BA Marines           5

5 x Escape Pods
5 x Lifeboats




The problem in my mind with the Titan is first, why wasn't it ever upgraded, and second, why's it so damn fast? Its not really got the guns to go in supporting its fighters, and I don't think using Megamek's dropship builder you can make a 5/8 titan actually fit on 12,000 tons, something just seems off about it.

She's a CV, she's got more fighters than most cruisers, so having her going galavanting off towards the enemy is dumb as all hell, have her hang back, and be armed enough to defend herself.

*edit*

I was wrong, you can make a 5/8 Titan, barely, she's still under weight a bit and you can't have anywhere near the number of doors she's got but you can make it.  and she's still rubbish.


« Last Edit: September 13, 2018, 10:11:51 AM by marauder648 »
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Bradshaw

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Re: Quicksilver Dropships
« Reply #109 on: September 13, 2018, 09:58:00 AM »

Looking at Operation Klondike to get an idea of what types of dropships the Clans have available besides what they've produced since
 
We find they had;
  • Fortress
  • Gazelle
  • Triumph
  • Overlord
  • Mule
  • Union
  • Buccaneer
  • Dictator
  • Vulture
  • Monarch
  • Colossus
pg 146 Operation Klondike

probably the majority of what they brought for Military purposes

Notable is there are no Carriers in this group and we know they have some Titan C Dropships
« Last Edit: September 13, 2018, 10:20:47 AM by Bradshaw »
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Bradshaw

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Re: Quicksilver Dropships
« Reply #110 on: September 13, 2018, 10:32:18 AM »

Triumph C possible Vehicle Transport for Blood Spirit

Code: [Select]
Triumph C
Base Tech Level: Standard (Clan)

Weight: 8000 tons
BV: 10,137
Cost: 568,951,200 C-bills

Movement: 4/6
Heat Sinks: 124 [248]
Fuel Points: 7500/9000 (300.0 tons)
Tons Per Burn Day: 1.84

Structural Integrity: 11
Armor: 737
            Armor 
-------------------
Nose          220 
Left Side     180 
Right Side    180 
Aft           157 

Weapons                             Loc  Heat 
-----------------------------------------------
PPC Bay                             NOS   60   
ER PPC                                         
ER PPC                                         
ER PPC                                         
ER PPC                                         
AC Bay                              NOS    4   
Gauss Rifle                                   
Gauss Rifle                                   
Gauss Rifle                                   
Gauss Rifle                                   
Gauss Rifle Ammo [Clan]             160       
Laser Bay                            LS   36   
ER Large Laser                                 
ER Large Laser                                 
ER Large Laser                                 
Laser Bay                            RS   36   
ER Large Laser                                 
ER Large Laser                                 
ER Large Laser                                 
LRM Bay                              LS   12   
LRM 20                                         
LRM 20                                         
LRM 20 (Clan) Artemis-capable Ammo   60       
LRM Bay                              RS   12   
LRM 20                                         
LRM 20                                         
LRM 20 (Clan) Artemis-capable Ammo   60       
Laser Bay                           AFT   24   
ER Large Laser                                 
ER Large Laser                                 
Pulse Laser Bay                     NOS   16   
Medium Pulse Laser                             
Medium Pulse Laser                             
Medium Pulse Laser                             
Medium Pulse Laser                             
Pulse Laser Bay                      RS   16   
Medium Pulse Laser                             
Medium Pulse Laser                             
Medium Pulse Laser                             
Medium Pulse Laser                             
Pulse Laser Bay                      LS   16   
Medium Pulse Laser                             
Medium Pulse Laser                             
Medium Pulse Laser                             
Medium Pulse Laser                             
Pulse Laser Bay                     AFT   16   
Medium Pulse Laser                             
Medium Pulse Laser                             
Medium Pulse Laser                             
Medium Pulse Laser                             


Equipment       Loc 
---------------------
Artemis IV FCS   RS 
Artemis IV FCS   RS 
Artemis IV FCS   LS 
Artemis IV FCS   LS 

Carrying Capacity
-----------------
Heavy Vehicle Bay (2 doors) - 30 units
Infantry Bay (1 door) - 10.0 Foot platoons
Infantry Bay (1 door) - 5.0 Jump platoons
Battle Armor Bay (2 doors) - 15 Points
Cargo Space (1 door) - 1,348.500 tons

Crew                   
-----------------------
Officers              3
Enlisted/Non-rated   38
Gunners               6
Bay Personnel       680



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Bradshaw

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Re: Quicksilver Dropships
« Reply #111 on: September 13, 2018, 10:43:16 AM »

Oops those were the Pentagon Powers Dropships here were the Clans

Vengeance
Fortress
Intruder
Dictator
Mule
Overlord
Union
Triumph
Colossus
Pentagon
Achilles
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Takiro

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Re: Quicksilver Dropships
« Reply #112 on: September 13, 2018, 10:08:55 PM »

No Titan? I am sure that is an oversight.

Yeah I doubt the Arcadia (a new design) as is could be advanced especially by the Blood Spirits. They simply can't afford it.

What I am saying is the omission of a vehicle carrier likely a classic (Condor, Triumph, or Seeker) is just an oversight due to the Clans attitudes to vehicles. One has existed all this time but due to prejudice and Clan norms a report was never generated. No Clan save Blood Spirit (and Hell's Horses) really deploys Vehicles in front line service so up to Quicksilver it is likely said Vehicle Carrier would be exclusive to their Clan. My contention something has existed to move these assets which may expand following the Quicksilver Trials.
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marauder648

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Re: Quicksilver Dropships
« Reply #113 on: September 14, 2018, 11:09:40 AM »

Any thoughts on the Titan II?
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Re: Quicksilver Dropships
« Reply #114 on: September 14, 2018, 11:30:54 AM »

Instead of the 10 ton Communication Gear was there anyway to do the small Naval Command module.  That was my only thought.

Other than that I loved the fluff and was the Clans I thought that would be involved with its rebirth.


Were there any Titans that were associated with flight / space or something else that would fit well with the design. I'm not a fan of IIC or C names for the most part.
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Bradshaw

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Re: Quicksilver Dropships
« Reply #115 on: September 14, 2018, 11:42:59 AM »

Yeah I doubt the Arcadia (a new design) as is could be advanced especially by the Blood Spirits. They simply can't afford it.

What I am saying is the omission of a vehicle carrier likely a classic (Condor, Triumph, or Seeker) is just an oversight due to the Clans attitudes to vehicles. One has existed all this time but due to prejudice and Clan norms a report was never generated. No Clan save Blood Spirit (and Hell's Horses) really deploys Vehicles in front line service so up to Quicksilver it is likely said Vehicle Carrier would be exclusive to their Clan. My contention something has existed to move these assets which may expand following the Quicksilver Trials.

Could switch the Arcadia to another Clan. If keeping Protomechs Smoke Jaguar makes sense as they are the designers of them. I upgraded the original to include a trinary of Battlearmor as well as the trinary of Protomechs.


I think the Colossus was their go to carrier of vehicles. It carrier 72 so even unmodified thats two trinaries + of Vehicles.

Triumph was on the list and it can carry something like 3 companies I believe

Fortress could carry a company

Dictator Command Variants could carry 18

They definitely could carry their vehicles without needing additional ones.



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Re: Quicksilver Dropships
« Reply #116 on: September 14, 2018, 12:21:58 PM »

Its why I went with the Mongol name of Storm for them, the IIC is just a standby.  As for titan names..how about using Stars?

Canopus, Andromeda etc, that could work?
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Bradshaw

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Re: Quicksilver Dropships
« Reply #117 on: September 14, 2018, 12:50:57 PM »

I like Andromeda. Zeus would also work as the is the god of the sky and the son of a Titan. And if you back date the construction of the Titan C to before Invasion. Clans wouldn't even know the name was already used by Lyrans for the mech because I think it was built after exodus or maybe right before. And either way its not like BT hasn't used same name for multiple designs.

Just looked it up and yea Zeus mech came out 3 years after Kerensky left.

Or other Wind Deities

Aeolus, god and Ruler of the Winds
Anemoi, were Greek wind gods.
   Boreas, god of the north wind and of winter.
   Eurus, god of the unlucky east or southeast wind.
   Notus, god of the south wind.
   Zephyrus, god of the west wind.
   Aparctias, another name for the north wind (not identified with Boreas).
   Apheliotes, god of the east wind (when Eurus is considered southeast).
   Argestes, another name for the west or northwest wind.
   Caicias, god of the northeast wind.
   Circios or Thraskias, god of the north-northwest wind.
   Euronotus, god of the southeast wind.
   Lips, god of the southwest wind.
   Skeiron, god of the northwest wind.
Apollo, god of storms and favorable winds. (again already used and bad connotations as was captiol of Rim Worlds)
Aura (Breeze).
Aurai, nymphs of the breezes.
Dioscuri, or Castor and Pollux, they were protectors of sailors and received sacrifices for favorable winds.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 12:57:49 PM by Bradshaw »
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marauder648

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Re: Quicksilver Dropships
« Reply #118 on: September 14, 2018, 03:33:29 PM »

There's also naval names, Victory, Saratoga etc
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Bradshaw

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Re: Quicksilver Dropships
« Reply #119 on: September 14, 2018, 03:40:48 PM »



Love it just because was name from a great Sci Fi show
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