OBT Forum

General BattleTech => General Discussion => AeroTech => Topic started by: marauder648 on September 16, 2018, 03:04:55 AM

Title: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: marauder648 on September 16, 2018, 03:04:55 AM: Length - 975 meters
Displacement - 890,000 tons
Crew compliment - 418 (including 50 Elementals/Marines)

As part of the NWP (New WarShip Program) instigated by ilKhan Corian Tchernovkov with the joint effort to produce a series of WarShip designs that would then be made available for all the Clans, the NWP's first success was the Nightlord class Battleship, the program was slowed owing to the ilKhan's death, but efforts to keep the program going out of the sense of unity that the ilKhan wanted stopped it from being killed off entirely. Working down in weight, the next NWP was a cruiser that would replace the ageing Aegis, Cameron and Black Lions in front line service, allowing the older ships to be retired or put back into Naval Caches as their age was making them harder to maintain and keep active.

Based in part on the Luxor design, the Thebes was built to be a powerful combattant as well as being tough and durable, they were somewhat jokingly called Pocket Battleships for their size, firepower and protection. Like their Luxor pregenitor the Thebes didn't carry a huge amount of cargo, trading endurance for protection and firepower. Several Clans adopted the class and over a dozen were built. But they never succeded in replacing the older vessels, many of whom were retained, and some Clans refused to 'waste resources' on building the newer vessels when they had ships that were viewed as being perfectly servicable already in commission. The NWP managed to last a few more decades, producing the Typhon class Destroyer and the Fredasa class Corvette before the Dragoon Compromise and the first intelligence from the Inner Sphere killed the program and any great WarShip building plans any of the Clans had when it was found that WarShips had gone extinct within the Inner Sphere.

Seen here is Clan Smoke Jaguars CSJ Scharnhorst, who along with her sister the Gneisenau formed a unique Sub-class of the Thebes hull that only served with Clan Smoke Jaguar. Trading cargo space for a massively reinforced hull and thicker hull plating, giving them armour levels above almost anything else constructed at the cost of limited endurance as well as being harder to repair once damaged. They were named after Prussian military commanders and two vessels from Terra's First World War and were seen as successful if short legged ships. The heavy hull bracing and reinforced armour protection (using a system similar to the Lola III's with multiple layers of plating and several 'dead spaces' before meeting the main armoured belt) made these two ships horribly cramped and spartan even by Clan standards. Still the ships were a powerful addition to the Jaguar's Tourman especially after the loss of their last Battleship during the Mongoose Absorption.

(https://i.imgur.com/1lpOFF4.jpg)

Drawn by the amazing Matt Plog - https://mattplog.deviantart.com/

Design/specs by Vition 2

Code: [Select]
Class/Model/Name: Scharnhorst class Armoured Cruiser Tech: Clan / 3050 Vessel Type: WarShip Rules: Level 2, Standard design Rules Set: AeroTech2 Mass: 890,000 tons K-F Drive System: (Unknown) Length: 975 meters Sail Diameter: 1,490 meters Power Plant: Standard Safe Thrust: 3 Maximum Thrust: 5 Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-carbide Armament: 25 NL55 23 Heavy NPPC 10 NAC/30 24 LRM 20+ArtIV 18 Large Pulse Laser 8 LB 10-X AC 40 AMS 8 NAC/20 4 Medium NPPC ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Class/Model/Name: Thebes Mass: 890,000 tons Equipment: Mass Power Plant, Drive & Control: 160,200.00 Thrust: Safe Thrust: 3 Maximum Thrust: 5 Kearny-Fuchida Hyperdrive: Compact (Integrity = 18) 402,725.00 Lithium Fusion Battery 8,900.00 Jump Sail: (Integrity = 5) 74.00 Structural Integrity: 135 120,150.00 Total Heat Sinks: 4,000 Double 3,389.00 Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 5,100.00 Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters: 2,225.00 Fire Control Computers: .00 Hyperpulse Generator: 50.00 Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-carbide (2,727 total armor pts) 2,402.50 Capital Scale Armor Pts Location: L / R Fore: 465 Fore-Left/Right: 460/460 Aft-Left/Right: 460/460 Aft: 422 Cargo: Bay 1: Fighters (10) 1,500.00 Small Craft (2) 400.00 Bay 2: Fighters (10) 1,500.00 Small Craft (2) 400.00 Bay 3: Cargo (13,253.5 tons) 13,253.50 DropShip Capacity: 4 Docking Hardpoints 4,000.00 Grav Decks #1 - 2: (95-meter diameter) 100.00 Life Boats: 35 (7 tons each) 245.00 Escape Pods: 30 (7 tons each) 210.00 Crew and Passengers: 54 Officers (54 minimum) 540.00 169 Crew (169 minimum) 1,183.00 85 Gunners (85 minimum) 595.00 50 Marine Battle Armor Troopers/Elementals 350.00 60 Bay Personnel .00 Weapons and Equipment Loc SRV MRV LRV ERV Heat Mass ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 3 NL55 Nose 17 17 17 17 255 3,300.00 3 Heavy NPPC Nose 45 45 45 45 675 9,000.00 2 NAC/30(120 rounds) Nose 60 60 60 -- 200 7,096.00 3 LRM 20+ArtIV(180 rounds) Nose 5(48) 5(48) 5(48) -- 18 48.00 2 Large Pulse Laser Nose 2(20) 2(20) 2(20) -- 20 12.00 2 LB 10-X AC(120 rounds) Nose 1(12) 1(12) -- -- 4 32.00 5 AMS(1488 rounds) Nose -- -- -- -- 5 64.50 3 NL55 FL/R 17 17 17 17 510 6,600.00 4 Heavy NPPC FL/R 60 60 60 60 1800 24,000.00 2 NAC/20(120 rounds) FL/R 40 40 40 -- 240 10,096.00 3 LRM 20+ArtIV(180 rounds) FL/R 5(48) 5(48) 5(48) -- 36 96.00 3 Large Pulse Laser FL/R 3(30) 3(30) 3(30) -- 60 36.00 5 AMS(1488 rounds) FL/R -- -- -- -- 10 129.00 3 NL55 L/RBS 17 17 17 17 510 6,600.00 3 Heavy NPPC L/RBS 45 45 45 45 1350 18,000.00 2 NAC/30(120 rounds) L/RBS 60 60 60 -- 400 14,192.00 2 NAC/30(120 rounds) L/RBS 60 60 60 -- 400 14,192.00 3 LRM 20+ArtIV(180 rounds) L/RBS 5(48) 5(48) 5(48) -- 36 96.00 2 Large Pulse Laser L/RBS 2(20) 2(20) 2(20) -- 40 24.00 5 AMS(1488 rounds) L/RBS -- -- -- -- 10 129.00 3 NL55 AL/R 17 17 17 17 510 6,600.00 3 Heavy NPPC AL/R 45 45 45 45 1350 18,000.00 2 NAC/20(120 rounds) AL/R 40 40 40 -- 240 10,096.00 3 LRM 20+ArtIV(180 rounds) AL/R 5(48) 5(48) 5(48) -- 36 96.00 2 Large Pulse Laser AL/R 2(20) 2(20) 2(20) -- 40 24.00 2 LB 10-X AC(120 rounds) AL/R 1(12) 1(12) -- -- 8 64.00 5 AMS(1488 rounds) AL/R -- -- -- -- 10 129.00 4 NL55 Aft 22 22 22 22 340 4,400.00 4 Medium NPPC Aft 36 36 36 36 540 7,200.00 3 LRM 20+ArtIV(180 rounds) Aft 5(48) 5(48) 5(48) -- 18 48.00 2 Large Pulse Laser Aft 2(20) 2(20) 2(20) -- 20 12.00 2 LB 10-X AC(120 rounds) Aft 1(12) 1(12) -- -- 4 32.00 5 AMS(1488 rounds) Aft -- -- -- -- 5 64.50 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ TOTALS: Heat: 9,700 876,746.50 Tons Left: .00

And here's the standard Thebes Heavy Cruiser, designed by Vition2.

Code: [Select]
AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout VALIDATED Class/Model/Name: Thebes Class Heavy Cruiser Tech: Clan / 3050 Vessel Type: WarShip Rules: Level 2, Standard design Rules Set: AeroTech2 Mass: 890,000 tons K-F Drive System: (Unknown) Length: 843 meters Sail Diameter: 1,166 meters Power Plant: Standard Safe Thrust: 3 Maximum Thrust: 5 Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-carbide Armament: 4 NAC/20 4 NAC/10 10 Medium N-Gauss 6 Light N-Gauss 13 Light NPPC 12 NL55 4 NL35 8 AR10 Launcher 24 Large Pulse Laser 24 LB 20-X AC 19 LRM 20+ArtIV 32 AMS ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Class/Model/Name: Thebes mk. III Mass: 890,000 tons Equipment: Mass Power Plant, Drive & Control: 160,200.00 Thrust: Safe Thrust: 3 Maximum Thrust: 5 Kearny-Fuchida Hyperdrive: Compact (Integrity = 18) 402,725.00 Lithium Fusion Battery 8,900.00 Jump Sail: (Integrity = 5) 74.00 Structural Integrity: 95 84,550.00 Total Heat Sinks: 1,750 Double 1,139.00 Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 5,100.00 Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters: 2,225.00 Fire Control Computers: .00 Hyperpulse Generator: 50.00 Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-carbide (1,920 total armor pts) 1,690.50 Capital Scale Armor Pts Location: L / R Fore: 334 Fore-Left/Right: 320/320 Aft-Left/Right: 320/320 Aft: 306 Cargo: Bay 1: Fighters (10) 1,500.00 Small Craft (2) 400.00 Bay 2: Fighters (10) 1,500.00 Small Craft (2) 400.00 Bay 3: Fighters (10) 1,500.00 Small Craft (2) 400.00 Bay 4: Cargo 56,782.50 DropShip Capacity: 4 Docking Hardpoints 4,000.00 Grav Decks #1 - 2: (95-meter diameter) 100.00 Life Boats: 35 (7 tons each) 245.00 Escape Pods: 30 (7 tons each) 210.00 Crew and Passengers: 52 Officers (52 minimum) 520.00 171 Crew (171 minimum) 1,197.00 78 Gunners (78 minimum) 546.00 50 Marine Battle Armor Troopers/Elementals 350.00 90 Bay Personnel .00 Weapons and Equipment Loc SRV MRV LRV ERV Heat Mass ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 2 Light NPPC Nose 14 14 14 -- 210 2,800.00 2 Medium N-Gauss(120 roundsNose 50 50 50 50 30 11,048.00 4 NL55 Nose 22 22 22 22 340 4,400.00 2 AR10 (30 KW, 10 WS, 60 B)Nose * * * * 40 4,200.00 4 AMS(3600 rounds) Nose -- -- -- -- 4 152.00 3 Large Pulse Laser Nose 3(30) 3(30) 3(30) -- 30 18.00 3 LB 20-X AC(180 rounds) Nose 4(36) 4(36) -- -- 18 72.00 3 Light N-Gauss(180 rounds)FL/R 45 45 45 45 54 27,072.00 1 NAC/20(60 rounds) FL/R 30 30 30 -- 120 5,048.00 1 NAC/10(60 rounds) 60 4,024.00 2 AR10 (30 KW, 10 WS, 60 B)FL/R * * * * 80 8,400.00 4 AMS(3600 rounds) FL/R -- -- -- -- 8 304.00 3 Large Pulse Laser FL/R 3(30) 3(30) 3(30) -- 60 36.00 3 LB 20-X AC(180 rounds) FL/R 4(36) 4(36) -- -- 36 144.00 3 LRM 20+ArtIV(180 rounds) FL/R 5(48) 5(48) 5(48) -- 36 96.00 2 Medium N-Gauss(120 roundsL/RBS 50 50 50 50 60 22,096.00 2 Medium N-Gauss(120 roundsL/RBS 50 50 50 50 60 22,096.00 4 NL55 L/RBS 22 22 22 22 680 8,800.00 4 AMS(3600 rounds) L/RBS -- -- -- -- 8 304.00 3 Large Pulse Laser L/RBS 3(30) 3(30) 3(30) -- 60 36.00 3 LB 20-X AC(180 rounds) L/RBS 4(36) 4(36) -- -- 36 144.00 2 LRM 20+ArtIV(120 rounds) L/RBS 3(32) 3(32) 3(32) -- 24 64.00 4 Light NPPC AL/R 28 28 28 -- 840 11,200.00 1 NAC/20(60 rounds) AL/R 30 30 30 -- 120 5,048.00 1 NAC/10(60 rounds) 60 4,024.00 1 AR10 (15 KW, 5 WS, 30 B) AL/R * * * * 40 4,200.00 4 AMS(3600 rounds) AL/R -- -- -- -- 8 304.00 3 Large Pulse Laser AL/R 3(30) 3(30) 3(30) -- 60 36.00 3 LB 20-X AC(180 rounds) AL/R 4(36) 4(36) -- -- 36 144.00 3 LRM 20+ArtIV(180 rounds) AL/R 5(48) 5(48) 5(48) -- 36 96.00 3 Light NPPC Aft 21 21 21 -- 315 4,200.00 2 NL35 Aft 7 7 7 -- 104 1,400.00 2 NL35 Aft 7 7 7 -- 104 1,400.00 4 AMS(3600 rounds) Aft -- -- -- -- 4 152.00 3 Large Pulse Laser Aft 3(30) 3(30) 3(30) -- 30 18.00 3 LB 20-X AC(180 rounds) Aft 4(36) 4(36) -- -- 18 72.00 3 LRM 20+ArtIV(180 rounds) Aft 5(48) 5(48) 5(48) -- 18 48.00 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ TOTALS: Heat: 3,847 890,000.00 Tons Left: .00 Calculated Factors: Total Cost: 17,759,972,000 C-Bills

Temeraire Class Frigate

Length â€“ 747 meters
Displacement â€“ 760,000 tons
Crew Complement â€“ 417 with room for up to 125 Elementals.

In SLDF service frigates served as long range patrol vessels but with the Clans and their lack of space to patrol the surviving frigates of the SLDF, mainly the Congress class were used as normal ships of the line. Unfortunately, whilst the Congress was a super patrol and anti-raider vessel it was lacking when pushed into combat due to a somewhat weak weapons array. The Congressâ€™ superb sensor suite did make them ideal at hunting for Bandit Caste raiders and it was this capacity which helped shape the planned replacement for the Congress. Under the aegis of the NWP the first frigate to be laid down in centuries entered the design phase.
Like the Congress it would emphasise endurance and habitability whilst featuring a powerful sensor suite to let it hunt for targets. But, instead of Dark Caste Bandits it was presumed the new frigates main role would be hunting Inner Sphere brigands and the remnants of their military forces once the Clans had invaded and one had claimed Terra and become ilClan. To increase endurance the ship was to have as few ballistic weapons as possible and instead would be armed almost entirely with energy weapons. Other requirements would include a sizeable Aerospace contingent as well as the capacity to carry a sizable number of DropShips to deploy troops to hunt down and destroy anything the ships sensors might detect. To this end the ship was to also have the carrying capacity for a large number of Elementals and their equipment.

The design that emerged was a seven hundred and sixty thousand-ton design, larger than the Aegis class cruiser and better protected thanks to its near nine hundred and ninety tons of Lamellor Ferro-Carbide armour. The ship was powered by a quartet of DS-201 Mod 3 engines that could sustain up to 3g of thrust at full burn, making the ship swifter than the preceding Congress class and the capability to carry up to six-thousand tons of fuel gave the design a huge range.

Designated the Temeraire class, the new frigate was armed with a large battery of 35 and 55cm naval lasers, chosen for their reliability and ease of repair when away from base. Supporting the lasers and providing a heavy anti-ship punch, a quartet of heavy naval particle cannons were mounted in the bow and could punch through all but the thickest armour. Sixteen AR-10 missile batteries, each fed by a large magazine added additional long-range firepower and flexibility. For self-defence against Bandit or Inner Sphere fighters that managed to make it past the lasers then a battery of ER Large lasers and large pulse lasers awaited any attacker. Anti-missile work would be taken care of by an array of 64 ER Small lasers, this in itself did cause some disagreement as the lasers were to be fitted instead of a more traditional anti-missile system. It was argued that the lasers could be used against attackers at terminal range and still engage missiles without any ammunition or maintenance concerns.

Code: [Select]
Class/Model/Name: Temeraire Tech: Clan Ship Cost: $22,311,282,000.00 Magazine Cost: $3,360,000.00 BV2: 83,826 Mass: 760,000 K-F Drive System: Compact with L-F Battery Power Plant: Maneuvering Drive Safe Thrust: 4 Maximum Thrust: 6 Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-Carbide Armament: 16 Naval Laser 55 32 Naval Laser 35 16 Capital Launcher AR-10 8 Naval PPC Heavy 64 Laser Micro Pulse 16 Laser Large ER (C) 16 Laser Large Pulse (C) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Class/Model/Name: Temeraire Mass: 760,000 Equipment: Mass Drive: 182,400.00 Thrust Safe: 4 Maximum: 6 Controls: 1,900.00 K-F Hyperdrive: Compact with L-F Battery (17 Integrity) 351,500.00 Jump Sail: (5 Integrity) 68.00 Structural Integrity: 65 49,400.00 Total Heat Sinks: 2620(5240) Double 1,972.00 Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 15000 points 6,120.00 Fire Control Computers: 268.90 Armor: 1087 pts Lamellor Ferro-Carbide 988.00 Fore: 205 Fore-Left/Right: 186/186 Aft-Left/Right: 186/186 Aft: 180 Cargo: Bay 1: 10 Doors Fighter Bays (30 Fighters) 4,500.00 Bay 2: 2 Doors 5 Small Craft 1,000.00 25 Points of Battle Armor 250.00 Bay 3: 3 Doors Cargo (75306.104 tons) 75,306.104 Dropship Capacity: 4 4,000.00 Grav Decks: 1 250-meter 100.00 Escape Pods: 25 175.00 Life Boats: 25 175.00 Crew And Passengers: 52 Officers in Steerage Quarters 260.00 145 Crew in Steerage Quarters 725.00 110 Gunners and Others in Steerage Quarters 550.00 235 Bay Personnel 0.00 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ # Weapons Loc Heat Damage Range Mass 4 Naval PPC Heavy Nose 900 600 (60-C) Extreme-C 12,000.00 8 Capital Launcher AR-10 Nose Extreme-C 2,000.00 4 Laser ER Small Nose 4 12 (1.2-C) Short-PDS 2.00 4 Laser ER Small Nose 4 12 (1.2-C) Short-PDS 2.00 4 Naval Laser 55 FR/L 340 220 (22-C) Extreme-C 4,400.00 4 Laser Large ER (C) FR/L 48 40 (4-C) Extreme 32.00 4 Laser Large Pulse (C) FR/L 40 40 (4-C) Long 48.00 4 Laser ER Small FR/L 4 12 (1.2-C) Short-PDS 4.00 4 Laser ER Small FR/L 4 12 (1.2-C) Short-PDS 4.00 4 Naval Laser 35 R/LBS 208 140 (14-C) Long-C 2,800.00 4 Naval Laser 35 R/LBS 208 140 (14-C) Long-C 2,800.00 4 Naval Laser 35 R/LBS 208 140 (14-C) Long-C 2,800.00 4 Naval Laser 35 R/LBS 208 140 (14-C) Long-C 2,800.00 4 Laser ER Small R/LBS 4 12 (1.2-C) Short-PDS 4.00 4 Laser ER Small R/LBS 4 12 (1.2-C) Short-PDS 4.00 4 Naval Laser 55 AR/L 340 220 (22-C) Extreme-C 4,400.00 4 Laser Large ER (C) AR/L 48 40 (4-C) Extreme 32.00 4 Laser Large Pulse (C) AR/L 40 40 (4-C) Long 48.00 4 Laser ER Small AR/L 4 12 (1.2-C) Short-PDS 4.00 4 Laser ER Small AR/L 4 12 (1.2-C) Short-PDS 4.00 4 Naval PPC Heavy Aft 900 600 (60-C) Extreme-C 12,000.00 8 Capital Launcher AR-10 Aft Extreme-C 2,000.00 4 Laser ER Small Aft 4 12 (1.2-C) Short-PDS 2.00 4 Laser ER Small Aft 4 12 (1.2-C) Short-PDS 2.00 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ammo Rounds Mass Capital Launcher Barracuda Ammo 80 2,400.00 Capital Launcher White Shark Ammo 80 3,200.00 Capital Launcher Killer Whale Ammo 80 4,000.00 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Equipment Mass NCSS Large 500.00 Mobile HPG 50.00
Design by Cryhavoc.

(https://i.imgur.com/olmqdAN.jpg)

Typhon Class Destroyer

Length â€“ 682 Meters
Displacement â€“ 620,000 tons
Crew complement â€“ 329 including 25 Marines or Elementals.

The surviving destroyer type WarShips in Clan service were a mixture of the Lola III and Essex II which had departed with the SLDF during Operation EXODUS and were the survivors of the battles to retake the Hegemony and Sol System. Designed along standard SLDF lines, the ships were built to be cheap, easy to maintain and, in essence, expendable. As they could be easily replaced by the vast industrial strength of the Hegemony. But, the Clans lacked the industrial capabilities of the Hegemony and WarShips were not assets that could simply be thrown away without care. With this in mind, as part of the New WarShip Programme, the Scientists of Clan Snow Raven began development of a destroyer scale vessel that would incorporate all the lessons learned from the SLDF of the past and take advantage of the latest developments in technology.
Going through several iterations the final design called for a 620,000-ton vessel, putting her in the same weight as the older Essex II class, and considerably lighter than the 680,000 tons of the Lola III. Indeed, the design did feature some of the Essexâ€™s hull features and the forwards hull was very reminiscent of the older vessel. But superficial similarities aside the new design was an entirely different ship. The bridge and sensor section were moved amidships with the ships CinC buried deeply in the hull, the traditional bridge section now more used as a meeting space and briefing room. Over eight hundred and sixty tons of Lamellor Ferro-Carbide armour was used to give the ship protection equal to a Black Lion II class Battlecruiser.

Like the older Lola and Essex classes the new destroyer, officially called the Typhon class by the Ravenâ€™s newest Khan, Lynn McKenna carried the standard two Stars of OmniFighters (20 fighters) as well as a quartet of small craft. But she also could carry a pair of DropShips to either deploy ground forces or support troops on the ground with additional Aerospace assets or the newly developed Roc class Assault DropShip.

The armament of the Typhon was designed for maximum flexibility, a pair of heavy naval autocannons in the bow provide the main forwards firepower whilst a mixture of 35 and 45cm naval lasers supported by medium Naval particle cannons provide the majority of the firepower. A pair of medium naval gauss rifles can also engage broadside targets.

Additional firepower is provided by ten AR-10 Maelstrom missile launchers with six firing into the forward and broadside arcs and four covering the stern quarters. Anti-fighter defences include the ships lasers and particle cannons as well as the missiles for long to extreme range engagements but at short range a mixture of large pulse lasers, ER PPC and LRM clusters can engage fighters or hostile DropShips whilst also providing cover for friendly targets. Finally, anti-missile batteries are installed for point and area defence against anti-ship and fighter scale missiles.

Code: [Select]
AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout VALIDATED Class/Model/Name: Typhon-class Destroyer Tech: Clan / 3067 Vessel Type: WarShip Rules: Level 2, Standard design Rules Set: AeroTech2 Mass: 620,000 tons K-F Drive System: (Unknown) Length: 682 meters Sail Diameter: 1,068 meters Power Plant: Standard Safe Thrust: 4 Maximum Thrust: 6 Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-carbide Armament: 2 NAC/30 4 Medium N-Gauss 10 Medium NPPC 4 NL55 16 NL45 12 NL35 10 AR10 Launcher 16 ER PPC 24 Large Pulse Laser 32 LRM 20+ArtIV 28 AMS ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Class/Model/Name: Typhon-class Destroyer Mass: 620,000 tons Equipment: Mass Power Plant, Drive & Control: 148,800.00 Thrust: Safe Thrust: 4 Maximum Thrust: 6 Kearny-Fuchida Hyperdrive: Compact (Integrity = 13) 280,550.00 Lithium Fusion Battery 6,200.00 Jump Sail: (Integrity = 4) 61.00 Structural Integrity: 70 43,400.00 Total Heat Sinks: 2,000 Double 1,410.00 Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 6,630.00 Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters: 1,550.00 Fire Control Computers: .00 Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-carbide (997 total armor pts) 868.00 Capital Scale Armor Pts Location: L / R Fore: 173 Fore-Left/Right: 166/166 Aft-Left/Right: 166/166 Aft: 160 Cargo: Bay 1: Fighters (20) 3,000.00 Bay 2: Small Craft (4) 800.00 Bay 3: Cargo 30,963.00 DropShip Capacity: 2 Docking Hardpoints 2,000.00 Grav Deck #1: (90-meter diameter) 50.00 Crew and Passengers: 43 Officers (43 minimum) 430.00 126 Crew (126 minimum) 882.00 75 Gunners (75 minimum) 525.00 25 Marine Battle Armor Troopers/Elementals 175.00 60 Bay Personnel .00 Weapons and Equipment Loc SRV MRV LRV ERV Heat Mass ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 2 NAC/30(120 rounds) Nose 60 60 60 -- 200 7,096.00 3 NL35 Nose 11 11 11 -- 156 2,100.00 3 NL35 Nose 11 11 11 -- 156 2,100.00 2 ER PPC Nose 3(30) 3(30) 3(30) -- 30 12.00 3 Large Pulse Laser Nose 3(30) 3(30) 3(30) -- 30 18.00 4 LRM 20+ArtIV(240 rounds) Nose 6(64) 6(64) 6(64) -- 24 64.00 3 AMS(2688 rounds) Nose -- -- -- -- 3 113.50 4 NL45 FL/R 18 18 18 18 560 7,200.00 3 AR10 (30 KW, 15 WS, 60 B)FL/R * * * * 120 9,300.00 2 ER PPC FL/R 3(30) 3(30) 3(30) -- 60 24.00 3 Large Pulse Laser FL/R 3(30) 3(30) 3(30) -- 60 36.00 4 LRM 20+ArtIV(240 rounds) FL/R 6(64) 6(64) 6(64) -- 48 128.00 4 AMS(3600 rounds) FL/R -- -- -- -- 8 304.00 3 Medium NPPC L/RBS 27 27 27 27 810 10,800.00 2 Medium N-Gauss(120 roundsL/RBS 50 50 50 50 60 22,096.00 3 NL35 L/RBS 11 11 11 -- 312 4,200.00 2 ER PPC L/RBS 3(30) 3(30) 3(30) -- 60 24.00 3 Large Pulse Laser L/RBS 3(30) 3(30) 3(30) -- 60 36.00 4 LRM 20+ArtIV(240 rounds) L/RBS 6(64) 6(64) 6(64) -- 48 128.00 3 AMS(2688 rounds) L/RBS -- -- -- -- 6 227.00 4 NL45 AL/R 18 18 18 18 560 7,200.00 2 AR10 (20 KW, 10 WS, 40 B)AL/R * * * * 80 6,200.00 2 ER PPC AL/R 3(30) 3(30) 3(30) -- 60 24.00 3 Large Pulse Laser AL/R 3(30) 3(30) 3(30) -- 60 36.00 4 LRM 20+ArtIV(240 rounds) AL/R 6(64) 6(64) 6(64) -- 48 128.00 4 AMS(3600 rounds) AL/R -- -- -- -- 8 304.00 2 NL55 Aft 11 11 11 11 170 2,200.00 4 Medium NPPC Aft 36 36 36 36 540 7,200.00 2 NL55 Aft 11 11 11 11 170 2,200.00 2 ER PPC Aft 3(30) 3(30) 3(30) -- 30 12.00 3 Large Pulse Laser Aft 3(30) 3(30) 3(30) -- 30 18.00 4 LRM 20+ArtIV(240 rounds) Aft 6(64) 6(64) 6(64) -- 24 64.00 3 AMS(2688 rounds) Aft -- -- -- -- 3 113.50 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ TOTALS: Heat: 4,594 620,000.00 Tons Left: .00 Calculated Factors: Total Cost: 10,085,946,000 C-Bills
Ship designed by Vition2.

(https://i.imgur.com/QLBnJZp.jpg)
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips.
Post by: marauder648 on September 16, 2018, 03:52:16 AM: These designs will feature in an upcoming fluff book but it started out of my thinking about how the Clans did start building new WarShips and we see them in canon in the form of the Fredasa and Nightlord, but they simply ground the production to a halt because the Clans started getting intel from the Dragoons about the state of the Inner Sphere and the destruction of their WarShip fleets and the capabilities to build, maintain and repair such vessels.

But this still leaves the Clans with a big problem. Firstly, for clarity, I completely renounce the 3057 redesigns. They are so hugely different from the 2750 art that they are not just the odd internal change or retrofit, but instead are massive structural overhauls. And for the Clan's, from what we know about them, this kind of reworking makes next to no sense.

Most Clans don't really like WarShips, and they lack the facilities to crew, repair or replace them. And with their ships being older designs, built to operate in the SLDF's doctrine of raw numbers and large formations, instead the Clans deploy ships alone or at most in pairs and rarely outside of the Ravens would they deploy a large number of WarShips operating together as a fully functional fleet.

This means that ships that are built and designed around working together with others of their kind are suddenly and horribly exposed because its not got its 3 - 6 other squadron mates to cover it or mass fire against inbound fighters etc. This makes the SLDF WarShips in Clan service VERY vulnerable, and as the Clans can't really replace WarShips easily, they are a useful strategic asset but one that cannot be risked as they are also for all intense and purposes, irreplaceable.

And then there's the matter of weapons, armour and equipment. Most of the WarShips in Clan service are going to be at least 200 years old, if not more by this point (3040's/3050's) and whilst you can't rust the exterior of the hull, the interior can and will degrade through age, wear and tear and lack of maintenance due to a general lack of proper shipyards needed to do true overhauls etc.

And whilst the Clans would be able to maintain their old SLDF stock of ships, this is going to get more and more difficult over the years and then decades. I don't know if the Clans brought many factories with them to build WarShip parts, but if they did, i'd reckon most of these would have been converted to something more 'useful' in the Clan's eyes long ago. So spares are probably hard to come by, leaving you at the trade mercy of those who still do make them.

To me, it made little sense that the Clan's wouldn't either refit their older vessels

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=61404.0

Or in the Raven's case to modernize their fleet

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=61530.0

and produce newer ships.

Obviously this isn't for the Quicksilver program as I doubt the Clans would really go back to more WarShip building. Even if they found out the IS was working on WarShips of their own, their own stocks of SLDF ships heavily outnumber the IS ones. And really this is just a stream of thought, but I hope ya folks enjoy none the less!
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 16, 2018, 07:30:03 AM: You dont have to sell me on the obscurity of the Clans and their warship doctrine. Just look at the Aegis last built in 2531 last refitted by the star league in 2582 and all the Clans did was strip already dismal armor and fuel for increased aerospace fighters. So these ships are all over a thousand years old. Credit to their original builders but these parts are so outdated and parts hard to come by duct tape is their crews best friend.

Most other designs they have are only a hundred or two younger. Now add in their huge fleet of dropships that are susceptible to corrosion as they continuously are entering and exiting atmosphere. Where do they have the time, space and materials to do this on a yearly basis.

Warships even in orbit of a planet would be susceptible to extended ware and tear as it would be constantly battered by gasses at high speeds as it circled the planet.

The lack of any type of shields in BT always disturbed me. You would think ships are constantly at risk of small asteroids or just space debris popping wholes in your shiny new toy. You would think all ships would at least have something like your ER small idea surrounding their hulls on an automated defense grid for this purpose.

As a sidenote it never made sense that the Clans whom knew nothing about the Innersphere during their Golden Century wouldn't work on newer Warships as well given they had no clue to the state of affairs of the Houses blowing each other to hell. What if they quickly made peace and were building themselves up. What if they themselves were having a golden century. Even after wolf dragoons entered the IS I havent seen anywhere that Kerlin shared their intelligence with any others. Because if he did they would have called for the invasion much sooner. Ugh Clans are so dumb sometimes

BTW great pictures and fluff as usual. My favorite is the frigate and its all energy design.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: marauder648 on September 16, 2018, 07:57:59 AM: Yeah the whole things a mess and it makes ZERO sense, save out of a desire to keep the focus on big stompy robots. WarShips and the like probably have some kind of shield, but its probably an electromagnetic one, very very low powered basically to deflect hard radiation. This would mean that the already horrifically thin hull plating (someone apparently worked out that WarShip armour is thinner than paper) wouldn't need to be bulked up with radiation absorbent stuff.

But some form of EM shield to keep out hard stuff would make sense, they've more than got the power generation for it. And yeah the logic behind the lack of WarShip construction is bonkers, its why with the FRAM program I didn't really change the ships that much, its just adding to defences etc.

In reality, the 2750 designs need to be redone completely in canon so they are not so shite or weird.

And i'm glad ya like the three ladies :D
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 16, 2018, 08:33:49 AM: Yea Warship construction rules should have been reevaluated long ago im not an engineer but I dont know why SI is tied to armor capacity in a zero-g environment. 1000 tons of armor on a million ton ship that is nearly a mile long makes no sense. Its overly complicated in some of its calculations and to basic in others.

Why is there no endo steel option for dropships and larger designs only makes sense they would utilize it
Why does armor protection per ton change on the weight of your ship
Let alone crappy distances capital weapons can fire. How can a NAC that can barely hit something a mile away orbital bombard anything.

Technology in BT has always been my biggest gripe. Its like an early 20th century author trying to write about the 21st century world with no knowledge of science to even attempt to grasp what could be. Its why my favorite of the scifi authors was Asimov and others like him that could grasp the potentials of science.

BT should have hired someone with a engineering background once the game took off in the late 80s to help fine tune initial worked
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: marauder648 on September 16, 2018, 08:55:56 AM: Well let us worry about the things we can change my friend, not the things we can't.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 16, 2018, 09:16:13 AM: Hadn't had my coffee yet had a little rant in me ::)

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/37/10/84/371084369b38854063ffe6b20fada06b.jpg)
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: marauder648 on September 16, 2018, 10:03:22 AM: Tonight on ilKhan!

Leo gets angry *image of Leo Showers laying out a subordinate with a punch*

Vlad gets confused [Vlad Ward] What was their plan!?

And Tanay Kage throws an umbrella - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTMb2UkW4xY

[Leo Showers] So we will Invade and Conquer the Inner Sphere! I mean...how hard can it be?
[Others] Do not say that!

*Top Gear theme plays*
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 16, 2018, 10:28:09 AM: ;D ;D ;D

Oh that video was way to funny for what it was.

ilKhan cast makes makes me think of a mix of Futurama and Family Guy newscasters
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: marauder648 on September 16, 2018, 10:34:26 AM: Well it was either that or this which I just found of Tanay chasing birds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY7PHNVUfgA
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Takiro on September 16, 2018, 10:53:03 AM: At a wedding now chaps which is delaying my Timber Wolf (Mad Cat) review and a full chunky post on Quicksilver Warship response. ASAP I will give you my though processes on the subject including wanting every piece of marauder648 commissioned Plog art which I can get my hands on, give me give me give me!!
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: marauder648 on September 16, 2018, 10:58:02 AM: No worries Takiro, send me a PM with your email on and i'll send it to ya :)
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 16, 2018, 11:14:01 AM: Makes me wonder what the average price range is for some of these images you've commissioned. I have found almost all these pictures before while looking for images myself on the internet.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: marauder648 on September 16, 2018, 11:28:00 AM: $35.00 for a single ship/fighter/Mech, the Quadvee's were $45 and the big space station was the same or $55 IIRC. And Bradshaw slip me your email and i'll send the pics to you too.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: masterarminas on September 16, 2018, 12:54:41 PM: This is one idea that I had when I was thinking about building new WarShips for the Clans to replace the old SLDF equipment.

This is the Homer-class Corvette, based upon the highly successful Vincent-class hull used by the Star League.

Code: [Select]
AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout VALIDATED Class/Model/Name: Homer Tech: Clan / 2920 Vessel Type: WarShip Rules: Level 2, Custom design Rules Set: AeroTech2 Mass: 420,000 tons K-F Drive System: (Unknown) Length: 551 meters Sail Diameter: 994 meters Power Plant: Standard Safe Thrust: 5 Maximum Thrust: 8 Armor Type: Ferro-carbide Armament: 7 NAC/20 24 ER Large Laser 16 ER PPC 16 Gauss Rifle 8 Ultra AC/20 32 ER Medium Laser 2 NL35 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Class/Model/Name: Homer Mass: 420,000 tons Equipment: Mass Power Plant, Drive & Control: 126,000.00 Thrust: Safe Thrust: 5 Maximum Thrust: 8 Kearny-Fuchida Hyperdrive: Compact (Integrity = 10) 190,050.00 Lithium Fusion Battery 4,200.00 Jump Sail (Detachable): (Integrity = 4) 51.00 Structural Integrity: 40 16,800.00 Total Heat Sinks: 670 Double 124.00 Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 14,513.00 Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters: 1,050.00 Fire Control Computers: .00 Food & Water: (360 days supply) 432.00 Hyperpulse Generator: 50.00 Armor Type: Ferro-carbide (314 total armor pts) 322.00 Capital Scale Armor Pts Location: L / R Fore: 54 Fore-Left/Right: 54/54 Aft-Left/Right: 54/54 Aft: 44 Cargo: Bay 1: Fighters (10) with 4 doors 1,500.00 Bay 2: Small Craft (4) with 2 doors 800.00 Bay 3: Cargo (1) with 2 doors 21,000.00 Grav Decks #1 - 2: (95-meter diameter) 100.00 Escape Pods: 40 (7 tons each) 280.00 Crew and Passengers: 26 Officers (26 minimum) 260.00 103 Crew (103 minimum) 721.00 25 Gunners (25 minimum) 175.00 2 1st Class Passengers 20.00 13 2nd Class Passengers 91.00 25 Marine Battle Armor Troopers/Elementals 175.00 6 NCSS Crew 42.00 40 Bay Personnel .00 Weapons and Equipment Loc SRV MRV LRV ERV Heat Mass ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1 NAC/20(50 rounds) Nose 20 20 20 -- 60 2,520.00 3 ER Large Laser Nose 3(30) 3(30) 3(30) 3(30) 36 12.00 2 ER PPC Nose 3(30) 3(30) 3(30) -- 30 12.00 2 Gauss Rifle(120 rounds) Nose 3(30) 3(30) 3(30) -- 2 39.00 1 Ultra AC/20(120 rounds) Nose 3(30) 3(30) -- -- 14 36.00 4 ER Medium Laser Nose 3(28) 3(28) -- -- 20 4.00 1 NAC/20(50 rounds) FL/R 20 20 20 -- 120 5,040.00 3 ER Large Laser FL/R 3(30) 3(30) 3(30) 3(30) 72 24.00 2 ER PPC FL/R 3(30) 3(30) 3(30) -- 60 24.00 2 Gauss Rifle(120 rounds) FL/R 3(30) 3(30) 3(30) -- 4 78.00 1 Ultra AC/20(120 rounds) FL/R 3(30) 3(30) -- -- 28 72.00 4 ER Medium Laser FL/R 3(28) 3(28) -- -- 40 8.00 1 NAC/20(50 rounds) L/RBS 20 20 20 -- 120 5,040.00 3 ER Large Laser L/RBS 3(30) 3(30) 3(30) 3(30) 72 24.00 2 ER PPC L/RBS 3(30) 3(30) 3(30) -- 60 24.00 2 Gauss Rifle(120 rounds) L/RBS 3(30) 3(30) 3(30) -- 4 78.00 1 Ultra AC/20(120 rounds) L/RBS 3(30) 3(30) -- -- 28 72.00 4 ER Medium Laser L/RBS 3(28) 3(28) -- -- 40 8.00 1 NAC/20(50 rounds) AL/R 20 20 20 -- 120 5,040.00 3 ER Large Laser AL/R 3(30) 3(30) 3(30) 3(30) 72 24.00 2 ER PPC AL/R 3(30) 3(30) 3(30) -- 60 24.00 2 Gauss Rifle(120 rounds) AL/R 3(30) 3(30) 3(30) -- 4 78.00 1 Ultra AC/20(120 rounds) AL/R 3(30) 3(30) -- -- 28 72.00 4 ER Medium Laser AL/R 3(28) 3(28) -- -- 40 8.00 2 NL35 Aft 7 7 7 -- 104 1,400.00 3 ER Large Laser Aft 3(30) 3(30) 3(30) 3(30) 36 12.00 2 ER PPC Aft 3(30) 3(30) 3(30) -- 30 12.00 2 Gauss Rifle(120 rounds) Aft 3(30) 3(30) 3(30) -- 2 39.00 1 Ultra AC/20(120 rounds) Aft 3(30) 3(30) -- -- 14 36.00 4 ER Medium Laser Aft 3(28) 3(28) -- -- 20 4.00 1 Lot Spare Parts (5.00%) 21,000.00 40 Bay Personnel Quarters 280.00 1 Small Naval Comm Scanner 100.00 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ TOTALS: Heat: 1,340 420,000.00 Tons Left: .00 Calculated Factors: Total Cost: 6,775,673,024 C-Bills Battle Value: 96,259 Cost per BV: 70,390.02 Weapon Value: 35,462 (Ratio = .37) Damage Factors: SRV = 2,433; MRV = 2,203; LRV = 1,264; ERV = 409 Maintenance: Maintenance Point Value (MPV) = 252,587 (38,992 Structure, 157,005 Life Support, 56,590 Weapons) Support Points (SP) = 341,100 (135% of MPV) BattleForce2: Not applicable
Sure, it lacks the docking collar and massive punch of the NAC-40 carried by the Fredasa, but it is just as maneuverable and fast with a thrust of 5/8. Not to mention rather more heavily armored and possesses a good deal of more damaging firepower spread around the perimeter of the vessel. Firepower it is able to use because there are enough heat sinks!

The design also incorporates a Small Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (with the 6-man crew required!), Lithium-Fusion Batteries, and an HPG. It has fuel and supplies to last for 360 days (albeit at a mere 1-G of thrust), has 21,000 tons of spare parts (5% of total ship's mass) and an additional 21,000 tons of free cargo space.

And the design doesn't cost much more than a Fredasa. Well, it would cost quite a bit more if you added that docking collar (which you have enough cargo tonnage to add one or two and not really make much of a difference in endurance), but it is far more effective than the Vincents that the Clans still make use of.

Anyway, this is how I would have done a Clan corvette (although, even though it is based on the canon Vincent, 420,000 tons is not really a corvette; more of a light destroyer to tell the truth!). Still, works out quite well, at least in my opinion, that is!

MA
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 16, 2018, 01:33:08 PM: i always wondered how and why they distributed the Warships that they did to each Clan.

What would you think each clans philosophy would be? If you could build naval trinary for each from scratch how would you build it? Of course within reason of sizes and strictly Star League/Clan designs..Im going to search and see if i can find a full list already compiled of their individual warships in Canon and see how it lays out.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: marauder648 on September 16, 2018, 02:08:50 PM: I like the Homer, she's a nice versatile ship, and yeah she lacks the punch of the NAC-40 but that guns got such a short range and there's only one of them that its more dead weight than anything else. Solid armour package, fast, all round darn nice ship. The only thing i'd add is a pair of AMS to each arc, sure its not much of an anti-missile defence but its something.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 16, 2018, 02:33:52 PM: Heres this list of Ships as of post Burrock Absorption.

Speaking of age of Clan Warships

Code: [Select]
Class Type Year Introduced Age Aegis Heavy Cruiser 2372 681 Black Lion Battlecruiser 2691 362 Cameron Battlecruiser 2668 385 Carrack Merchant Transport 2603 450 Congress Frigate 2542 511 Conqueror Carrier 3052 1 Du Shi Wang Battleship 2380 673 Essex Destroyer 2711 342 Fredasa Corvette 2962 91 Leviathan Battleship 3042 11 Liberator Cruiser 2525 528 Lola III Destroyer 2662 391 McKenna Battleship 2662 391 Nightlord Battleship 2932 121 Potemkin Troop Cruiser 2611 442 Sovetskii Soyuz Heavy Cruiser 2742 311 Texas Battleship 2618 435 Vincent Mk 42 Corvette 2432 621 Volga Transport 2709 344 Whirlwind Destroyer 2606 447 York Carrier 2947 106
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Vition2 on September 16, 2018, 07:24:35 PM: This is a repost from the official forums, but I figured it could be used to help the discussion here:

Most warships the clans built seemed to have actually been built during the Political Century and are as follows:
Fredasa 14+
Peregrine 2-4+ (stated as "a few")
Carrack 2+ (unknown number but SO states they were the first warships built by the Diamond Sharks and Nova Cats)
Molniya 1+ (first warship built by the Wolves according to SO)
Corone 1+ (first warship built by the Snow Ravens according to SO)
York 12+
Nightlord 8+

Leviathan 2 (built during the invasion era, 3rd built in the Inner Sphere)

*Everything has "+" as we don't know what was lost during this period, but it's not factoring into my following summary.

This is a total of around 21 million tons of warships, with potential for more, and a total of at least 40 warships. Not a lot by the SLDF's armada, but about 10% that which left with Kerensky (though tonnage-wise, probably closer to 5%ish)

Re: Homer
I like it, but it honestly seems to be pushing past the corvette style - not in weaponry but in other capabilities. It's large fuel bunkerage suggests to me the potential for long deployments while it's weapons are more than enough to destroy 99% of what it might come across, and the its speed allows it to chase down pretty much anything it wants. If you were up for suggestions, I'd consider increasing the fighters to a full trinary, the small craft to a full binary, and increase the number of elementals to 75 and change the designation to a (light) frigate.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 16, 2018, 08:03:41 PM: Thanks for the info on other clan built ships heard mention of the Peregrine but not the others. Also I thiught York and Carracks are refits and not new shipa per say.. Didnt realize the clan variant of Carrack were a completely new build. I missed the fluff it was just the first 6 Yorks were refits of Riga and not all
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Abele on September 16, 2018, 09:36:27 PM: There are dozens of Carracks, most of which are the Merchant (unarmed) version
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: masterarminas on September 16, 2018, 11:50:51 PM: Quote from: Bradshaw on September 16, 2018, 01:33:08 PM
i always wondered how and why they distributed the Warships that they did to each Clan.

What would you think each clans philosophy would be? If you could build naval trinary for each from scratch how would you build it? Of course within reason of sizes and strictly Star League/Clan designs..Im going to search and see if i can find a full list already compiled of their individual warships in Canon and see how it lays out.

The Clans are noticeably "top-heavy" in their naval configurations. By this, I mean that they almost never have a good ratio of escorts (frigates, destroyers, and corvettes) to their heavier vessels. By and large, the Clan Fleets are build around Cruisers and Battle Cruisers . . . with the odd Battleship or Troop Cruiser thrown in. Lighter vessels are attached almost haphazardly.

Now, if I was building the Clan's Naval Touman, I'd approach it a little differently. Since I'm a fan of Clan Goliath Scorpion, here is what I would do if I were starting the Scorpion Naval Touman from scratch.

One BattleShip: either a Mckenna class or a Texas class. No need to buy a Nightlord from the Ravens.

Troop Cruisers: Sure, Alex. I'll take two for a $1000. No more than that.

Battlecruisers: None. Camerons are just too slow and Black Lions--while fearsome in firepower--lack any endurance to speak of.

Cruisers: No Aegis or Sovetskii Soyuz. Both are too slow and too lightly armored. But if--IF--I had my pick, I'd take a pair of Liberators. One for the Clan flagship and the second one to lead the Clan's second naval star.

Frigates: We've got some excellent choices here: a Congress or a . . . Congress. I'll take two. But if I could get that Riga class frigate out of the Naval cache, I'd take her in a heartbeat!

Destroyers: Give me three Lola IIIs and three Essex class.

Corvettes: Eh. You can keep them. Unless we go with my Homer-class. In that case, give me two!

Transports: Carracks are not really worth it. But I'll take one Volga.

That gives the Scorpions three Naval Stars and a Clan Flagship (total of 16 WarShips).

Clan Flagship
Liberator-class Cruiser

Naval Star Alpha
McKenna-class Battleship (or Texas-class)
Congress-class Frigate
Lola III-class Destroyer
Essex-class Destroyer
Homer-class Corvette

Naval Star Beta
Liberator-class Cruiser
Congress-class Frigate
Lola III-class Destroyer
Essex-class Destroyer
Homer-class Corvette

Naval Star Gamma
Potemkin-class Troop Cruiser
Potemkin-class Troop Cruiser
Volga-class Transport
Lola III-class Destroyer
Essex-class Destroyer

Not quite the full spectrum of SLDF escorts (Naval Stars are smaller than Squadrons, after all!), but a good ratio of escorts to heavy-hitters.

Anyway, that is how I would build a Clan's Naval force if I could. But the writers didn't ask our advice, now did they?

MA
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Takiro on September 17, 2018, 12:00:24 AM: Well this revision is up to us masterarminas and we have some of the best minds around. Now if I can get some time to outline all my chunky thoughts up..... damn!

Please outline your best ideas for fleet modernization of the Clan Navy starting after the Truce of Tukayyid.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 17, 2018, 12:06:32 PM: Since I'm a fan of the Star Adders I'll take a swing at what I would have liked to see.

Realistic changes

Alpha Star
Nightlord
Sovetskii Soyuz
Black Lion
Essex
Essex

Bravo Star
McKenna
Sovetskii Soyuz
Liberator
Lola III
Lola III

Charlie Star
Aegis
Lola III
Vincent Mk 42
Vincent Mk 42
Vincent Mk 42

Assigned Permanently to Galaxy

Alpha
Potemkin
Beta
Potemkin
Gamma
Volga
Delta
Volga
Epsilon
Volga

The only change I made to what are known Adder Warships is the holding of an additional Potemkin and Volgas

Ideal Changes

Keeping similar designs to offset their strained Shipyards

Potemkin Assigned to each Galaxy

Alpha Star
McKenna
Nightlord
Nightlord
Sovetskii Soyuz
Sovetskii Soyuz

Beta Star
Black Lion
Black Lion
Black Lion
Liberator
Liberator

Charlie Star
Essex
Essex
Vincent Mk 42
Vincent Mk 42
Vincent Mk 42

I need to play with that Excel Spreadsheet more. I'd like to take a stab updating some of the SLDF Warships myself.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Takiro on September 18, 2018, 10:06:30 PM: Okay folks as I start down this path please let me know what you think. Here are my numbers for current Clan warship strength as the story gets under way here.

Clan Warships
3053

   Blood Spirit (6 warships)
1 Black Lion class Battlecruiser: Rocinante
1 Sovetskii Soyuz class Heavy Cruiser: Carmine Justice (Flagship)
1 Aegis class Heavy Cruiser: Exsanguine
1 Lola III class Destroyer: Blood Fury
1 York class Destroyer/Carrier: Stooping Kite
1 Carrack class Transport: Pedigree

   Burrock (15 warships)
1 Potemkin class Troop Cruiser: Renown
1 Nightlord class Battleship: Absolute Truth
1 Liberator class Heavy Cruiser: Constantineau
1 Sovetskii Soyuz class Heavy Cruiser: Divine Conquest
1 Aegis class Heavy Cruiser: Aresâ€™s Might
2 Lola III class Destroyers: Hagar, Yodan
1 Essex class Destroyer: Tehuantepec
4 York class Destroyer/Carriers: Exodus Avenger, Exodus Crusader, Exodus Ranger, Exodus Sentinel
2 Vincent Mk42 class Corvettes: Centaur, Pegasus
1 Carrack class Transport: Vitriolic

   Cloud Cobra (15 warships)
1 McKenna class Battleship: Second Coming
2 Potemkin class Troop Cruisers: Wisdom of Ages, True Sight
1 Cameron class Battlecruiser: Incense
2 Aegis class Heavy Cruisers: Consequence, Inquisitor
1 Lola III class Destroyer: Cataclysm
3 York class Destroyer/Carriers: Brimstone, The Protector, Nebulous
2 Vincent Mk42 class Corvettes: Tramp, Hertzogâ€™s Staff
1 Carrack class Transport: Blind Faith
2 Fredasa class Corvettes: Hell Fury, Perditionâ€™s Flame

   Coyote (12 warships, 1 under construction)
1 Texas class Battleship: Ancestral Home (unable to leave Tamaron system)
2 Potemkin class Troop Cruisers: Midnight Star, Morning Star
1 Nightlord class Battleship: Great Coyote Spirit (Flagship)
1 Cameron class Battlecruiser: Blood of the Coyote
1 Liberator class Heavy Cruiser: Spirit in the Sky
2 Sovetskii Soyuz class Heavy Cruisers: Steel Fang, Howling
2 Lola III class Destroyers: Courage, Honor of Ages
1 Essex class Destroyer: Windrunner
- York class Destroyer/Carrier: [Broken Sea - under construction]
1 Carrack class Transport: Solar Blaze

   Diamond Shark (18 warships)
5 Potemkin class Troop Cruisers: Poseidon, Titanic, Tsunami, Red Tide, Kraken
1 Nightlord class Battleship: Terror of the Deep (Flagship)
1 Sovetskii Soyuz class Heavy Cruiser: Nagasawa
2 Volga class Transports: Bold Venture, Speculator
1 Aegis class Heavy Cruiser: Bloodlust
2 Lola III class Destroyers: Predator, Space Hunter
2 Essex class Destroyers: Sharon, Tracy
3+ Carrack class Transports: Star Swimmer, Devourer, Bloodletter
1 Fredasa class Corvette: Swift Strike

   Fire Mandrill (7 warships)
1 Potemkin class Troop Cruiser: Jungle Heat
1 Sovetskii Soyuz class Heavy Cruiser: Reaver
3 Lola III-class Destroyers: Rancor, Rage, Anathema
1 Vincent Mk 42 class Corvette: Firetender
1 Carrack class Transport: Firehold

   Ghost Bear (15 warships, 2 under construction)
- Leviathan class Battleships: [Leviathan, Great Bear - both under construction]
1 Nightlord class Battleship: Ursa Major
1 Cameron class Battlecruiser: Dieron's Run (Flagship)
1 Black Lion class Battlecruiser: Bear's Den
1 Volga class Transport: Ursine Boatman
1 Congress class Frigate: Shining Claw
2 Lola III class Destroyers: Blizzard, Icepick
2 Essex class Destroyers: White Claw, White Fang
1 York class Destroyer/Carrier: Ursa Minor
2 Whirlwind class Destroyers: Fire Fang, Ursus
2 Carrack class Transports: Den Mother, Yggdrasil
1 Fredasa class Corvette: Black Ghost

   Goliath Scorpion (17 warships)
1 McKenna class Battleship: Lei Kung (Flagship)
4 Potemkin class Troop Cruisers: Enceladus, Karttikeya, Epimetheus, Prometheus
1 Nightlord class Battleship: Atropos
1 Cameron class Battlecruiser: Hephaestus
1 Sovetskii Soyuz class Heavy Cruiser: Serket
1 Volga class Transport: Andromeda
2 Congress class Frigates: Bernlad, Garlon
2 Aegis class Heavy Cruisers: Corona Borealis, Corona Austrina
2 Lola III class Destroyers: Sagitta, Auriga
1 Essex class Destroyer: Orpheus
1 Carrack class Transport: Collrane

   Hellâ€™s Horses (10 warships)
3 Potemkin class Troop Cruisers: Steel Shield, Armageddon, Blood Horse
1 Cameron class Battlecruiser: Sleipnir (Flagship)
1 Volga class Transport: Mount Olympus
1 Congress class Frigate: Bucephalus
3 Lola III class Destroyers: Black Knight, Red Knight, Gold Knight
1 Carrack class Transport: Golden Clydesdale

   Ice Hellion (13 warships)
1 McKenna class Battleship: Cageâ€™s Pride
1 Potemkin class Troop Cruiser: Coterie
2 Aegis class Heavy Cruisers: Taney, Chaos Sailor
3 Lola III class Destroyers: Cold Hunter, Impaler, Radiant
1 Essex class Destroyer: Mooreâ€™s Honor
1 York class Destroyer/Carrier: Pack Leader
1 Carrack class Transport: Maker
3 Fredasa class Corvettes: Swift Bait, Hellionâ€™s Pride, Whelp

   Jade Falcon (23 warships)
1 Texas class Battleship: Falconâ€™s Nest
1 Nightlord class Battleship: Emerald Talon
1 Cameron class Battlecruiser: Turkinaâ€™s Pride (Flagship)
3 Black Lion class Battlecruisers: Jade Aerie, White Aerie, Blue Aerie
1 Liberator class Heavy Cruiser: Gauntlet
1 Sovetskii Soyuz class Heavy Cruiser: Hawker
2 Congress class Frigates: Green Lantern, Kerenskyâ€™s Pride
9 Aegis class Heavy Cruisers: Jade Talon, Janice Hazen, Frost Falcon, Gold Talon, Red Talon, White Talon, Black Talon, Blue Talon, Hawk Eye
1 Whirlwind class Destroyer: Emerald Tornado
1 Vincent Mk42 class Corvette: Lightning Strike
1 Carrack class Transport: Ironhold Provider
1 Fredasa class Corvette: Verdant Stoop

   Nova Cat (22 warships)
1 Black Lion class Battlecruiser: Thunderbolt
9 Aegis class Heavy Cruisers: Blood Oath, Bond, Promise, Blade, Path of Honor, Vision Quest, Principle, Chronicle, Rememberance
1 Congress class Frigate: True Vision (Flagship)
2 Lola III class Destroyers: Faithful, Devout
1 York class Destroyer/Carrier: Anna Rosse
3+ Carrack class Transport: True Path, Perilous Vision, Void
3 Vincent Mk42 class Corvette: Rightous Return, Far Vision, Spirit Vision
2 Fredasa class Corvette: Spirit Sight, Future Triumph

   Smoke Jaguar (23 warships)
1 Texas class Battleship: Veiled Huntress
1 Potemkin class Troop Cruiser: Osisâ€™ Pride
1 Black Lion class Battlecruiser: Streaking Mist (Flagship)
1 Liberator class Heavy Cruiser: Korat
1 Sovetskii Soyuz class Heavy Cruiser: Pouncing Fury
3 Congress class Frigates: FireCrest, Hunterâ€™s Pride, Snow Leopard
2 Lola III class Destroyers: Storm Cat, Griffin
3 Essex class Destroyers: Dark Claw, The Iowa, Sabre Cat
2 York class Destroyer/Carriers: Lioness, Queen Lynx
1 Whirlwind class Destroyer: Shadow Fang
4 Vincent Mk42 class Corvettes: Ripper, Azov, Simas Osis, Ghostwalker
1 Carrack class Transport: Pusher
2 Fredasa class Corvettes: Ocelot, Jaguarundi

   Snow Raven (39 warships, 1 under construction)
1 McKenna class Battleship: James McKenna
1 Texas class Battleship: Mountbatton
6 Potemkin class Troop Cruisers: Wild Swan, Snow Flake, Bonaventure, Eden Rose,
Rock, Treachery
1 Nightlord class Battleship: Snow Raven
3 Cameron class Battlecruisers: Blizzard, Kerenskyâ€™s Hope, Ice Storm
3 Sovetskii Soyuz class Heavy Cruisers: White Cloud, Storm Crow, Avalanche
1 Conqueror class Battlecruiser: Conqueror [Ark Royal - under construction]
2 Volga class Transports: Scavanger, Tenacity
1 Congress class Frigate: Magpie
7 Aegis class Heavy Cruisers: Black Justice, Blue Lancer, Blue Quest, Lord Death, Morning Violence, Scabbard, White Terror
4 Lola III class Destroyers: Bloody Talon, Cold Hunter, Spur, Vision of Terra
1 Essex class Destroyer: Eternity
1 York class Destroyer/Carrier: Corvidae
2 Whirlwind class Destroyers: William Adams, Drake
2 Vincent Mk42 class Corvettes: Huninn, Muninn
2 Carrack class Transports: Nestling, Venture Star
1 Fredasa class Corvette: Black Beard

   Star Adder (15 warships)
1 McKenna class Battleship: Sovereign Right
1 Black Lion class Battlecruiser: Admiral William S. Preston
1 Sovetskii Soyuz class Heavy Cruiser: Nygaard (Flagship)
2 Volga class Transports: Cho Polu, Pompeii
1 Aegis class Heavy Cruiser: Stellar Serpent
2 Lola III class Destroyers: Cameronâ€™s Flame, Warlock
1 Essex class Destroyer: Eagle
1 York class Destroyer/Carriers: Star Fire
2 Vincent Mk42 class Corvettes: Vritra, Naga
1 Carrack class Transport: Black Adder
2 Fredasa class Corvettes: Vicious Fang, Arcadian Asp

   Steel Viper (15 warships)
1 Nightlord class Battleship: Dark Asp (Flagship)
2 Potemkin class Troop Cruiser: Ophidian, Serpentes
1 Cameron class Battlecruiser: Zalmanâ€™s Endeavor
1 Sovetskii Soyuz class Heavy Cruiser: Sanra Mercer
1 Congress class Frigate: Snake Leader
1 Aegis class Heavy Cruiser: Steel Python
2 Lola III class Destroyer: Snake Pit, Anaconda
1 Essex class Destroyer: Martial Legacy
2 Whirlwind class Destroyer: Constrictor, Snake in the Grass
1 Vincent Mk42 class Corvette: Coiled Serpent
1 Carrack class Transport: Pride of New Kent
1 Fredasa class Corvette: Pit Viper

   Wolf (19 warships)
1 McKenna class Battleship: Werewolf
1 Texas class Battleship: Nicholas Kerensky
1 Potemkin class Troop Cruiser: Full Moon
2 Cameron class Battlecruisers: Mother Jocasta, Bloody Fang
2 Liberator class Heavy Cruisers: Jerome Winson, Victoria Ward
1 Sovetskii Soyuz class Heavy Cruiser: Dire Wolf (Flagship)
3 Black Lion class Battlecruisers: Implacable, Stealthy Kill, Blood Brinker
1 Volga class Transport: Provider
1 Congress class Frigate: Rogue
1 Lola III class Destroyer: Natures Wrath
4 Vincent Mk42 class Corvettes: Trailblazer, Relentless Pursuit, Valiant, Killing Blow
1 Carrack class Transport: Night Warrior

   United Clan Command (4 warships)
2 Newgrange class Yardships: Star Forge, Void Haven
1 McKenna class Battleship: McKennaâ€™s Pride (Clan Flagship)
1 Texas class Battleship: Prinz Eugen (Clan Prison Ship)
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: marauder648 on September 19, 2018, 05:22:55 AM: Looks good to me and yet again, the fluff don't match the numbers. where you have two of the largest naval presences in the two Clans that probably really really don't want WarShips (Falcons and Jags, especially the Jags). And its just weird to me that the perennially resource poor Scorpions also have a HUGE naval tourman for a Clan their size.

The two Unclaimed NewGranges, have them in Strana Mechty under Guild control whilst of course the McKenna's Pride and Prinz Euigen were under the control of the Ebon Keshik.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Takiro on September 19, 2018, 06:35:03 AM: Quote from: marauder648 on September 19, 2018, 05:22:55 AM
Looks good to me and yet again, the fluff don't match the numbers. where you have two of the largest naval presences in the two Clans that probably really really don't want WarShips (Falcons and Jags, especially the Jags). And its just weird to me that the perennially resource poor Scorpions also have a HUGE naval tourman for a Clan their size.

The two Unclaimed NewGranges, have them in Strana Mechty under Guild control whilst of course the McKenna's Pride and Prinz Euigen were under the control of the Ebon Keshik.

Thank you. The information above is as close to canon as I can get. Only non canon addition is the two Newgrange Yardships added from the Free Guilds who have activated them in the wake of Tukayyid. It was my aim to establish these numbers before we start trying to alter everything.

As for the fluff not matching the numbers I don't know what to say. Again this is every canon ship the Clans have active at this time per my best data mining. The Blood Spirit flagship is my best guess, I divided the Burrock and Star Adder fleets to reflect their pre-Absorption War numbers, combined Wolf fleets before the Refusal War and pieced together the Smoke Jaguar fleet thanks largely to FM Updates. Could you be a little more specific on your fluff not matching the number comment?

The Jade Falcons and the Smoke Jaguars are the two most powerful Clans at the time of the invasion. Perhaps they activated their entire fleet to help in this event? I will say that the Snow Ravens are not keeping a two to one advantage against them or Nova Cat and Wolf either. Also through Absorption the Jaguars (Mongoose) and the Wolves (Widowmaker) have access to two Clan fleets.

It is my opinion that the Scorpions keep such a large fleet for two reasons. One aide in their Seeking rituals which have them going just about everywhere and two as living history. These ships are in large part responsible for the establishment of the Clans thanks to the Exodus and part of the gloried past which effects the present and future. Their fleet is a powerful statement on how they exist. I don't know how eager they would be to carve up these hallowed living museums as masterarminas is doing however.

More to come later, how do the rest of you feel about this starting point?
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 19, 2018, 08:42:47 AM: Today's a slow day here at work due to the holiday so I'll take some time to double check things.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Vition2 on September 19, 2018, 11:16:55 AM: Quote from: Takiro on September 17, 2018, 12:00:24 AM
Please outline your best ideas for fleet modernization of the Clan Navy starting after the Truce of Tukayyid.

Just because it kind of has to be said, unless the clans get word that the Inner Sphere is booming in their warship production (which really doesn't get off the ground until the late 3050s and early 3060s), there's no reason for them to work on modernization in the post-Tukayyid era.

Okay, now that the disclaimer is out of the way, let's get started. :)

The first step of this is going to be working on an overall fleet doctrine for the clans. This is likely to be contested by two factions, one is going to be wanting an effective warship program with combat and superiority in space being the goal (Ravens, Cobras, and possibly the Star Adders are going to support this doctrine). The second is going to be a reinvention of the SLDF doctrine, where warships are intended primarily to support ground forces (most of the clans would prefer this doctrine). Fortunately, these doctrines are not mutually exclusive, but the second is likely to be more resource heavy than the first.

The second step for whatever doctrine is decided on, or even if both doctrines are allowed to go forward, will be something similar to marauder's FRAM programs. Layering on additional armor and diversifying weaponry will go a long way to producing a stop-gap while they build towards truly modern warships.

Space Superiority Doctrine

The space superiority doctrine is one in which a fleet is build to specifically fight and destroy opposing fleets. The warships supporting this doctrine are going to be relatively specialized, and built to function very well as a team, and poorly individually. This doctrine is primarily based around 2 types of warships, with a third taking a rare slot in a supporting role.

The Warships

Battleship - This will likely be around Texas-sized, but might be as big as a McKenna. They are going to be moderately thrusted, heavily armored, weapons will be focused on killing other warships, low or zero collars, ~60 ASF +/- a binary-ish to be used primarily as a defensive measure. Escorts will be used as AMS and anti-aerospace/dropship weapons, so the battleship can focus on bigger weapons. Most clans won't field more than one of these. Leviathans, are a bit too big and too expensive to reasonably be put into a level of production any of these doctrines are interested in. (Something similar to the Arbitration would fit well here)

Battlecruiser - Probably around 1 megaton +/-. These are the primary combatants of the clan superiority fleets, while their weapons are more heavily oriented on anti-shipping, they won't completely ignore AMS and anti-aerospace. Around 30-40 fighters, still primarily used defensively, and with zero collars. (I like the Scharnhorst for this role, I think it fits pretty well)

Fleet Carrier - Likely built in similar numbers as battleships, only a few clans are going to be able to field these properly. These are going to have armaments heavily focused on anti-aerospace and dropship, with just a couple of larger guns to present enough of a threat to scare away smaller warships. These will field a galaxy of aerospace fighters and small craft and are the only only warship which is intended to consistently use their fighters in an offensive role. I want to say that the mass for something like this would be in the neighborhood of a Nightlord, which could actually be used as a base for this.

Escort Destroyers - These are small and likely considered comparatively disposable. These are intended to screen the larger ships and attempt to destroy attacking ASF, SC, Dropships, and capital missiles, allowing the larger ships to focus on the "real" enemy - other warships. While most of their weapons are going to be smallish, either standard-sized or Naval Lasers, they will be build in larger banks to take greater advantage of AAA mode and bracketing fire (and I wish sub-capital weapons were available as these would dramatically increase these ships effectiveness in their roles). They might have a couple of larger weapons bays, merely to be able to force them not to be completely ignored in fleet combat. These will be specifically assigned to line-based warships where they will defend against attacks their larger cousins are ill suited for. The clans may want to deploy these in a way they don't normally deploy warships, as a pair to a single point.

Local Superiority Doctrine

Based heavily on the doctrines of the SLDF where the fleets are primarily intended to support ground-based assaults. These warships are going to maintain larger sized cargo holds, and may even be able to hot-drop ground forces from orbit. This is a doctrine which already has decent examples for it's upper end warships including Leviathans, Potemkin, and Nightlords, with only the second two needing some level up FRAM upgrading. With significantly larger numbers of dropship collars, this fleet will likely take a significantly longer period of time to actually build - though with most of the warships built for this doctrine being heavily based on previous or already in production classes, there will be less time needed to develop the warships themselves.

The Warships

Leviathan - Simply a massive ship with a large amount of cargo space. This ship will likely be the very high end of fleets using this doctrine.

Potemkin II - The ideal troop transport, the only real argument against it is the level of complexity required to get it and it's massive number of collars working properly with its KF drive. Will want to upgrade it's armor and standard-sized weapons.

Nightlord - A good start to a more direct assault-type of warship, this ship will often contain the quick assault portion of an attack force.

Medium Sized Troop Cruiser - A smaller version of the Potemkin. Not much more to say that that. (The Cassandra may be a good start to this)

Escort Destroyers - Similar or potentially identical to the Escort Destroyers in the Space Superiority Doctrine.

Of both doctrines a small number of additional classes would be used. A number of Carracks will be used to support these fleets, while some kind of yardship would be a great idea to bring along (perhaps something similar to the Legacy)
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 19, 2018, 11:37:01 AM: Quote from: Vition2 on September 19, 2018, 11:16:55 AM

Just because it kind of has to be said, unless the clans get word that the Inner Sphere is booming in their warship production (which really doesn't get off the ground until the late 3050s and early 3060s), there's no reason for them to work on modernization in the post-Tukayyid era.

It really depends on how well the Clan Watch actually gathers data.

As per TRO: 3057

For the Fox
Quote
Design work started in mid 3050; by late 3051, the WarShip design had reached its present form. After Prince Hanse Davion approved the design, the Federated Commonwealth contracted Federated-Boeing Interstellar to produce the vessel at its Port Simon yards at Galax.

If they were able to gain this information they may have begun contemplating the increased needs of Warships to be utilized. As they know the Federated Commonwealth is the leader in terms of power within the Innersphere. Add in the fact some time has passed and the Clans just lost almost every engagement on Tukayyid and they might feel the pinch a little more in terms of utilizing them again after the Turtle Bay debacle

As in the Clarion Call universe Hanse does not die in 3052 and I'm unsure of the direction of ComStar by Takiro but they may not hamper the work at Galax like in Canon and the ships could begin being produced earlier. Would they still be named the Fox though this I doubt.

I think Turtle Bay does come into the mix though and this narrowly forces the Clans to support the Space Superiority Doctrine you propose. As Clan Warriors do not like wasting resources and civilians are nothing but this to them. Their Honor would demand battles between warriors and be limited in engagements in the vastness of space.

I think they would shy away from many more Battleships just due to the enormous resources involved with their creation. I think Destroyers, Frigates, Cruisers and Carriers would be the majority of any new production efforts coming about due to this. I could even see someone like Star Adder with their superior Watch pushing for Bugeyes to be utilized again for intelligence gathering purposes. We know they have them but they seem to have been mothballed since Kodiak era.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 19, 2018, 12:25:18 PM: I'll use this for any finds.

Did you come up with names yourself?? This makes it a little more difficult to confirm if you found ones that sometimes are mentioned but no names.

Quote
Smoke Jaguar (23 warships)
1 Texas class Battleship: Veiled Huntress
1 Potemkin class Troop Cruiser: Osisâ€™ Pride
1 Black Lion class Battlecruiser: Streaking Mist (Flagship)
1 Liberator class Heavy Cruiser: Korat
1 Sovetskii Soyuz class Heavy Cruiser: Pouncing Fury
3 Congress class Frigates: FireCrest, Hunterâ€™s Pride, Snow Leopard
2 Lola III class Destroyers: Storm Cat, Griffin
3 Essex class Destroyers: Dark Claw, The Iowa, Sabre Cat
2 York class Destroyer/Carriers: Lioness, Queen Lynx
1 Whirlwind class Destroyer: Shadow Fang
4 Vincent Mk42 class Corvettes: Ripper, Azov, Simas Osis, Ghostwalker
1 Carrack class Transport: Pusher
2 Fredasa class Corvettes: Ocelot, Jaguarundi

Field Manual: Warden Clans, p. 31
The Fredasa-class corvette Hell Fury was a WarShip in service with Clan Cloud Cobra after they captured it from Clan Smoke Jaguar in 3053.

So unsure at this time

Veiled Huntress should be SJ Flagship
Clan Troops Page 32

Quote
One captured Du Shi Wang, originally the Jasmine Liao and renamed the Quicksilver Mongoose, survived the liberation of Terra and accompanied General Kerensky on his Exodus. Clan records show that it served Clan Mongoose until its demise, being mothballed after its near destruction by the Smoke Jaguars. It now resides in the Strana Mechty system.

TRO 3075 pg 252
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 19, 2018, 03:06:53 PM: Found this the FM Crusader & Warden Book thought it fit here

Quote
The Clans take great pride in their WarShips. Nowhere else is so much raw military might concentrated in a single war machine. Though the nature of WarShip combat makes it difficult for individual warriors to distinguish themselves, such fighting remains the calling of a specialized few. Each Clan has its preferred WarShip, more often a workhorse destroyer or cruiser rather than a larger but less versatile heavy cruiser or battleship.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: marauder648 on September 19, 2018, 03:07:36 PM: The Quicksilver Mongoose was basically left as a hulk following her capture during the Mongoose absor trial, because the Jag's didn't want to use anything associated with a lesser and now fallen Clan they didn't bother repairing her. She could probably be bought back into service and maybe traded away as she was a serious overhaul of the type and was far better than a standard DuShi Wang class ship.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 19, 2018, 03:38:50 PM: Quote from: marauder648 on September 19, 2018, 03:07:36 PM
The Quicksilver Mongoose was basically left as a hulk following her capture during the Mongoose absor trial, because the Jag's didn't want to use anything associated with a lesser and now fallen Clan they didn't bother repairing her. She could probably be bought back into service and maybe traded away as she was a serious overhaul of the type and was far better than a standard DuShi Wang class ship.

Considering they gained 4 from the Mongoose surrenders. Which if they took those why wouldn't they take their flagship boggles my mind. The battle took place at Circe so they bothered to bring it Strana Mechty as well.

Considering it states half the Smoke Jaguar fleet was destroyed in versus Mongoose. How many ships did they lose? Your talking 10 or so warships probably. I see there's a central stockpile that the Clan Council allowed the Jaguars to pull from to help rebuild. If we have Free Lancers in charge of maintaining this stockpile. Perhaps they took the Quicksilver Mongoose as collateral and have slowly returned it into fighting shape though no one has had a need to take from cache since.

I think this is where the Newgranges probably come into play again. As they probably have a good amount in this stockpile.

Adding up the totals and removing the classes specifically made by Clans Nightlord etc..
Removing all but the 6 yorks converted from Riga's
And all the Carracks that may or may not be original Carracks

We have 230 Warships. Lets say 50 have been lost since Kerensky left on the Exodus with his 402 Warships. Clans still have a very healthy reserve to pull from.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: marauder648 on September 19, 2018, 03:48:48 PM: Yeah there must be a considerable number sitting in Caches. In War of the Reaving the Sharks pull a Sarmakand class out of their naval Caches and use her for some time. So who knows what else they have sitting in their caches, probably no battleships as these would have all been used up or divvied out amongst the clans but you could probably find Riga I's, some Pinto's, probably some more Sov Soy's, Quixote's, Volga's etc
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Takiro on September 19, 2018, 04:06:00 PM: Some interesting thoughts Vition2! Fleet modernization for the Clans is a bit of a tricky issue cause every Clan has its own agenda but Operation Restoration is trying to get them all the same page. Right now I think their goals would be linking the Homeworlds and Occupation Zones effectively as well as maintaining security in that area. Sounds like Transports and Patrol Ships (smaller warships like Destroyers and Corvettes) might be prioritized.

Still the Clans have their differences especially in the naval arena.

Blood Spirit are fleet minimalists due to resource shortages
Burrock have a nice size fleet likely aimed at raiding and are specialists in hunting bandits
Cloud Cobra could focus on a carrier force thanks to their aerospace strength
Coyote building a York class Destroyer now with Snow Ravens help
Diamond Shark is all about the money baby and their fleet is composed of transports for commerce
Fire Mandrill has the second smallest fleet which like their Clan is divided by the Kindraa
Ghost Bear is building the Leviathans and is far ahead of every other Clan in linking their worlds to the OZ
Goliath Scorpion has a large fleet of museum pieces which they might not want to alter all that much
Hell's Horses has the third smallest fleet concentrated on transports and escorts
Ice Hellion is another Clan which I'd imagine as excellent raiders
Jade Falcon relying on the Aegis and superior firepower to quickly decimate any opponent
Nova Cat possesses many smaller warships
Smoke Jaguar has a large fleet which participated in battle at Turtle Bay
Snow Raven is the naval masters and wants to maintain a 2 to 1 warship advantage
Star Adder is reputed to have a fine naval tradition but possesses only an average number of warships at this time
Steel Viper is an average size Clan fleet with ships of all different varieties
Wolf is an average size Clan fleet with ships of all different varieties

Quote from: Bradshaw on September 19, 2018, 12:25:18 PM
Did you come up with names yourself?? This makes it a little more difficult to confirm if you found ones that sometimes are mentioned but no names.

Some ships were indeed named by me as I compiled this list from known canon sources such as FM Updates (THE WARSHIPS OF A DEAD CLAN, page 105) which lists most of the Jaguar fleet but at times has no ship name.

I am aware of the Fredasa capture by the Cloud Cobras but that hasn't happened yet.

Clan Troops is a dubious source and I believe the Streaking Mist is the flagship in many different sources.

The Quicksilver Mongoose is one of those ships floating around in Clan space probably in mothballs or in this case as a hulk in space. Wars of Reaving has various Clans activating fleet caches and this ship too.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 19, 2018, 04:40:00 PM: The Star Adder convoy discovered shortly after arriving that a group from the Dark Caste had already been working on activating ships from the mothballed fleet, and had already successfully activated a Kimagure-class pursuit cruiser and a Riga-class frigate, both of which were missing from the cache;[1] with the Society providing WarShip assets to Clan Burrock, it was likely that these two ships were the Kimagure-class CBS Admiral Russell Nga and Riga-class CBS Hetherington respectively.[2]

As the Star Adders moved to engage the Dark Caste party, another supposedly mothballed ship from the cache, a Baron-class destroyer, powered up and moved to engage the Star Adder forces.

Tomorrow i need to look through reaving book as i found this on sarna looking up samarkand warship. Guess adders had one as well the yorktown
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 19, 2018, 05:28:23 PM: Does it ever say anywhere how many warships were left behind by SLDF

I saw on the Dictator writeup they chose to take more of the Overlords to take over the older design, wouldnt they do the same with Warships prioritizing ones with collars and larger size for more space? Stockpiles could contain more of the larger ships. The reason to stockpile is the huge resources in maintaining them.

Looking up old Canon ships Monsoon and Farragut both have no mentions but the images show caption them as being seen in the Exodus
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Takiro on September 19, 2018, 06:40:21 PM: Quote from: Bradshaw on September 19, 2018, 05:28:23 PM
Does it ever say anywhere how many warships were left behind by SLDF

Long ago Irose and myself came up with some numbers based on avaiable canon information which gave us an idea.

Warships Numbers on Exodus
Vincent 30
Whirlwind 10
Riga 22
Carrack 20
Essex 25
Lola III 40
Aegis 38
Congress 18
Volga 22
Black Lion 12
Sovetski Soyuz 42
Avatar 6
Cameron 15
Potemkin 30
Texas 7
McKenna 18
Kimagure 5
Newgrange 2
Bug Eyes 5

Custom creations - 35

Total : 402 ships
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: marauder648 on September 20, 2018, 04:29:23 AM: Good break down, we can also expect a scatter shot of older ships as seen in the Revised 3057 TRO, as well as other prizes, or survivors like the Sarmakand class and other ships, hell there might even be a Monsoon in the stocks.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Takiro on September 20, 2018, 06:32:55 AM: Thanks marauder648, hopefully I can get Irose to comment on it here. From the time stamp this info is 12 years old so perhaps we can update. As I recall Battlespace and TRO3057 were the two most instrumental sources. This is well before TRO3075 came out with designs like the Samarkand (3 in Exodus) and the Du Shi Wang (1 which became the Quicksilver Mongoose).

There was also the question of what is a warship for purpose of the count as well. The Bug Eye is a good example of a vessel that may or may not have been counted in that catch all 402 number. And a little more in regards to the Bug Eye (FASA1673) Intelligence Operations Handbook says the Jade Falcon Watch use 'bug' ships in orbit around planets (page 119).
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 20, 2018, 08:57:08 AM: Was wondering more in my question of do we have any of numbers and types left behind in the Inner Sphere after the Exodus.

I saw 3057R last night but didn't comment last night as its easier to do it on my desktop at work.

3057R has been proven wrong by ships seen in the War of Reeving

Farragut
On December 20, 2766, the last remaining Farragut was dismantled.

Monsoon
The modifications were only performed on ten ships before the last Monsoon-class battleship was finally retired in 2668. (Vague so some could be with Clans)

Atreus
No mention at all of serving in SLDF

Luxor
The last Luxor-class heavy cruisers were destroyed during the final battle to liberate Terra.

Avatar
Although the Avatars were almost obsolete by the standards of the era, General Kerensky chose to take these vessels with the Exodus fleet, where their superb cargo and DropShip capacities would
be of considerable value; theyâ€™re currently motlballed in naval caches. (6 Survived to join Exodus and become Liberators)

Quixote
Placed in mothballs, the vessels were reactivated for duty in 2709 and modified into the Volga-class transport.

Kimagure
Vague served with the SLDF no mention of last destroyed or numbers left behind after the Coup

Riga
The final ships were mothballed in 2740. (We know some went with the Clans and most were turned into Yorks.)

Winchester
During the Reunification War, all of these aging craft were destroyed in various engagements, with the final vessels falling to the SLDF Navy in 2581 at the titanic Battle of Robsart.

Dart
The SLS Gettysburg destroyed the last known Dart in the New Vandenberg revolt in 2722.

Lola I & II
in 2660 the Star League Navy ordered the remaining vessels decommissioned and subsequently scrapped. However, at least four Lola IIs surfaced in the hands of the Taurian rebels during the Second Periphery Uprising, leaving some doubt as to the actual disposition of these vessels.

Wagon Wheel
Only handful made doubt any would have been around

Naga
Today, only three Nagas are known to exist, having remained in mothball since the fall of the Star League. Left in orbit around Neptune, all three of these destroyers were largely overlooked during the fighting for Terra.

Davion
Prince Alexander leased all but three of the surviving Block I Davions to the SLDF during the build-up to the Reunification War, most of which were later purchased by the Star League and edesignated as Whirlwind-class after receiving weapon upgrades. Those Whirlwind vessels were then upgraded by the Clans.

Carson
Vague some could be with Clans

Baron
The SLDF decommissioned the Baron-class in 2720, selling them to member states, where they served until eliminated by attrition in the Succession Wars.

Carrack
We know the Clans took some and even built their own

Sylvester
Doubtful as the SLDF created the Carrack of the inspiration of the Lyran ship

Bonaventure
Old decommissioned in 2432 but that never stopped the SLDF before from using them during Coup

Mako
Survived in IS until 2841 so entirely possible some joined the Exodus

Pinto
The Pinto class did not survive Kerenskyâ€™s return to oust the Republican forces when heavier SLDF WarShips entered the fray. Between the campaigns in the Periphery and the liberation itself, the Pinto class was apparently destroyed along with the WarShipâ€™s two shipyards in the shattered Rim Worlds Republic. However there are rumors that a few of these vessels, crippled and presumed destroyed during the fighting, may actually have withdrawn to uncharted worlds in the Deep Periphery where they survive to this day as derelicts.

Vigilant
None accompanied Kerenskyâ€™s exodus fleet. The few that survived the Star Leagueâ€™s fall were believed destroyed in the early Succession Wars.

Tracker
Despite repeated refits, the Tracker had become obsolete by the beginning of the twenty-sixth century. Several remained in service until the end of the Reunification War, acting as Q-Ships against pirates and Taurian Concordat raiders.

Nightwing
None are thought to have survived the Amaris crisis.

McKenna
29 survived to see the liberation. Eleven of those vessels were so badly damaged they had to be scuttled. The remaining vessels left with the Exodus fleet, but only three have been seen in service with the Clans.

Texas
Only seven of the 52 original vessels survived to depart with the Exodus fleet, and two of these were destroyed in the Exodus Civil War. The remaining five have been renovated and serve as command vessels for several Clans.

Potemkin
All 30 Potemkins from the Exodus fleetâ€”except one ship lost after the formation of the Clansâ€”remain in service with the Clans.

Cameron
40 built for SLDF only 1 known destroyed in fluff

Sovetski Soyuz
40 Survived and joined Exodus

Black Lion
less than a dozen Black Lion-class WarShips survived to accompany the Exodus fleet.

Congress
Unspecified amount joined Exodus

Volga
About two dozen Volgas left the Inner Sphere with the Exodus fleet

Aegia
70 were sent to Hegemony shipyards for refitting.but a surprising number survived the fall of the Star League and departed the Inner Sphere during the Exodus.

Lola III
A large number of Lolas survived the campaign to liberate Terra. It comprised the second largest WarShip class in the Exodus fleet.

Essex
Less than 30 Essex-class destroyers survived the campaign to liberate Terra following the Amaris coup, and these few vessels departed with the Exodus fleet in 2784.

Vincent
Unknown Number
The Vincentâ€™s roomy design and â€œsmart modularityâ€ technology make the vessel particularly easy to modify and upgrade, which has undoubtedly contributed to the Vincentâ€™s longevity.
Can you say Snow Raven OmniWarships.....

3075 TRO
Samarkand
with many serving as escorts in the Star League Defense Force.

Going to look now through War of Reaving to see if I can find specifics
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 20, 2018, 10:53:31 AM: After the Pentagon Civil War and the rise of the Clans under the auspices of ilKhan Nicholas Kerensky the General Stuart was one of many former Exodus vessels to be stored in one of ten boneyards distributed around the Clan Homeworlds. The General Stuart ended up in the Norfolk Boneyard, moored with Exodus Fleet Station Five in the Strana Mechty system.[

Forces from Clan Wolverine appropriated a number of ships from the various post-Exodus boneyards in the Clan Homeworlds as a part of Operation SWITCHBACK, a planned emergency evacuation. The General Stuart wasn't one of the ships taken by the Wolverines, and as at the end of December 2824 was one of at least fifteen vessels still mothballed in the Norfolk Boneyard.

San Diego Boneyard is one of the locations where the Clans store their mothballed spacecraft.

Norfolk Boneyard is one of the locations where the Clans store their mothballed spacecraft.
The Bismark a Texas class Battleship was one of five ships within the Norfolk cache being worked on at the time; the other ships included another battleship and three transports, one of which was the SLS Rawhide.

The Bismark was not present for the battle between ilKhan Kerensky's Grand Fleet and the bulk of the Clan Wolverine touman and thus survived the apparent destruction of the Wolverines. Ebon had the Bismark return to Barbados via a pirate point, having already located and joined her force with one of the other three screening task forces. The Bismark and several other WarShips from the mothballed Exodus fleet were able to muster two Clusters of ground forces by this point, and were full of Wolverine civilians in addition to the small number of survivors found at Barbados who had survived the various Clan hunting parties, including a number of people recovered from the shattered remains of the WarShip Rickenbacker (Unknown class)

The ultimate fate of the Bismark is unknown.

From Betrayal of Ideas

Aegis (General Stuart) see above
Cameron (Unknown Name)
McKenna (Zughoffer Weir Became Blakes Sword for WoB)
Michigan Wolverine Black Lion Destroyed
Potemkin (Egg Sac) Destroyed
Vincent (Badger) Destroyed Vincent
Whirlwind (Weasel) Unknown Fate from Wolverine)

WarShips of unspecified class:
Buccaneer Unknown Crusier Unknown fate
Hunter's Pride Unknown Ship Destroyed Jade Falcon ship
Mustang Unknown Hells Horses Warship Destroyed
Rickenbacker Unknown Wolverine Warship Destroyed
Rough Rider Unknown Warship Flagship for Kerensky in his hunt for Wolverines
Yukon unknown Wolverine Destroyer escaped with survivors

Maverick unknown Transport The exact fate of the crippled Maverick was not mentioned, and it is unknown if it was salvaged, or left to drift at the jump point (like the Rickenbacker), or scuttled (like the Wolverine vessels in orbit around Barbados that were crashed on the planet)
Munich Flagship of Ravens Cameron Class
Rawhide massive jump transport Unknown fate
Saratoga believed Carrack Class for Wolverines escaped with survivors
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: marauder648 on September 20, 2018, 10:57:02 AM: RE the Dart we know that some were in service with the Amaris forces and one was destroyed securing Terra when he was attacked by a group of Elephants.

In one of the books you do see a Farragut as part of the Exodus fleet and the WoB somehow found one too so its possible that one or two went with the Exodus fleet. The Lola II also served with the Amaris lot and whilst we don't know just how many ships the SLDF put into mothballs, we can guess its many megatonnes worth of vessels, so in reality there's nothing really stopping us going "Clan Cloud Cobra was surprised to find a mixed group of three Baron and two Carson class Destroyers in one Naval cache and after examining the ships to see what ones were in the best material condition, two Barons and one Carson joined the Cobra's naval reserve on DATE. through to DATE."
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: marauder648 on September 20, 2018, 11:10:44 AM: I'd also like to put my Antares class Supply and Ordinance Ship to be part of the Quicksilver canon.

Antares class Fleet Support Vessel.

The Reunification War showed that the SLDF was not prepared for long distance and long term deployments. With repair facilities, stockpiles of material far away in Hegemony space the SLDF was forced to either build facilities to support offensives or rely on inferior House yards with an increased risk of espionage and sabotage.

Whilst fixed facilities like orbital docks were the most effective means of repairing a ship, they were also the most vulnerable, and building one took months, which meant that damaged vessels were without proper facilities until it was completed.

To cure this the SLDF developed the first Yardships with the Liparius class but whilst these ships were capable something more was needed. Instead of a dedicated mobile repair yard a new design emerged that would act as a support vessel with a large grav-deck for crews to be able to relax in, as well as carrying a huge amount of supplies from crated fighters to Mechâ€™s, rifles, ammunition, food, water, fuel and spare parts for anything from portable toilets to warships autocannon barrels.

Of course to carry this the ship had to be large and the cruiser sized Antares would easily rival the Avatar class in terms of length and displacement with the Antares being 60 meters longer.

On the port and starboard hull a large array of arms and linkages could allow the ship to hard dock with another vessel to transfer supplies over as well as allowing her to operate like a tug to tow a disabled vessel if needs be. There was also an extensive hosing system to allow the transfer of fuel or water from huge liquid storage tanks.
The ship enjoyed a single large grav-deck much like that of the later Potemkin class and this was also used as a hospital with multiple surgery theaters with beds for hundreds of injured. In times of peace the ship could also act as a disaster relief ship, replacing Mechâ€™s and fighters with rescue vehicles and construction equipment.

The ship was rather lightly armed in terms of capital weaponry but it was heavily protected against fighter attacks as well as having a layered anti-missile system to protect against ship and fighter launched missiles.

Whilst extremely specialised the design was approved alongside the Liparius class and both would be seen as welcome additions to the fleet. But the sheer specialised nature of the Antares class limited its usefulness in the eyes of those who controlled the budget. The ship was expensive to build and maintain and was not a Warship in most beauracrats eyes but an over large transport whoâ€™s role outside of wartime did not justify their cost. With other wrangling over the budget this cut short the Antares programme after only 21 ships had been completed out of a planned 50.
Deployed when large scale exercises were carried out the Antares class spent most of their time in and out of orbit round Hegemony worlds or in orbit over developing worlds acting as a mobile command center until ground facilities were completed.

The â€˜tag-teamâ€™ of the Antares and Liparius class with each ship performing a specific role was at its core, inefficient but it did highlight the usefulness of such craft that could repair ships and maintaint their crews and assist other ships. This lead to studies into making a single hull that could do both, that would eventually result in the huge Newgrange class.

Deployed when large scale exercises were carried out the Antares class spent most of their time in and out of orbit round Hegemony worlds or in orbit over developing worlds acting as a mobile command center until ground facilities were completed.
Because of their rear echelon role many of the class were spared having to fight the CASPAR drones but those that were caught were classed as priority targets due to their strategic nature, despite this 11 survived the War to help with the reconstruction efforts but when it was obvious that the House Lords would not listen to the SLDF and Operation EXODUS was ordered the class, bar the SLS Aquitania who remained in the Sol system, deactivated as part of the Titan yards, left with General Kerensky.

The Aquitania nserved as a maintenance vessel and helped with cleaning up the Sol system of wreckage and debris the ship was still active when Jerome Blake seized the Sol system. She would continue to service ComStar's hidden fleet but was finally retired to an undisclosed location when the first Faslane class entered service.

Code: [Select]
Tech: Inner Sphere Vessel Type: WarShip Rules Set: Strategic Operations C-bills: $34,666,142,000.00 Full Magazine: $15,520,000.00 BV2: 38,378 Mass: 830,000 tons Safe Thrust: 3 Maximum Thrust: 5 Armor Type: Ferro-carbide Armament: 8 Barracuda Launchers 80 Barracuda Missiles 24 Anti-missile Systems 24 Gauss Rifles 16 LRM-20 with Artemis IV 48 ER ML ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mass: 830,000 tons Equipment: Mass Power Plant, Drive & Control: 151,475.00 Thrust: Safe Thrust: 3 Maximum Thrust: 5 Kearny-Fuchida Hyperdrive: Compact (Integrity = 18) 375,575.00 Jump Sail: (Integrity = 5) 72.00 Structural Integrity: 75 62,250.00 Total Heat Sinks: 500 Single 0.00 Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 1,200.00 Fire Control Computers: 0.00 Armor Type: Ferro-carbide (996 total armor pts) 1,245.00 Capital Scale Armor Pts Location: L / R Fore: 166 Fore-Left/Right: 166/166 Aft-Left/Right: 166/166 Aft: 166 Cargo: Bay 1: Small Craft (25) with 8 doors 5,000.00 Bay 2: Liquid Cargo (10,010 ton capacity) with 1 Door 11,000.00 8 Fluid Suction Systems 8.00 8 Sprayers 4.00 25 Refueling Drogues 25.00 Bay 3: Cargo (82,712.5 tons) with 8 Doors 82,712.50 DropShip Capacity: 6 Docking Hardpoints 6,000.00 Grav Decks #1 - 4: (200-meter diameter) 400.00 Life Boats: 100 (7 tons each) 700.00 Escape Pods: 0 (7 tons each) 0.00 Unpressurized Repair Facility (1,000,000 ton capacity) 25,000.00 Lithium Fusion Battery 8,300.00 Crew and Passengers: 73 Officers 730.00 365 Crew 2,555.00 220 2nd Class Passengers 1,540.00 280 Marines 1,990.00 125 Bay Personnel 0.00 Weapons and Equipment Loc SRV MRV LRV ERV Heat Mass ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 2 Barracudas (10 Missiles) Nose 4 4 4 4 20 180.00 3 Gauss Rifles (240 rounds)Nose 5(45) 5(45) 5(45) -- 3 45.00 2 LRM 20 w/Artemis (120) Nose 3(32) 3(32) 3(32) -- 12 22.00 6 ER Medium Lasers Nose 3(30) 3(30) -- -- 30 6.00 6 AMS (720 rounds) Nose 2(18) -- -- -- 6 3.00 3 Gauss Rifles (240 rounds)FR/L 5(45) 5(45) 5(45) -- 3 45.00 2 LRM 20 w/Artemis (120) FR/L 3(32) 3(32) 3(32) -- 12 22.00 6 ER Medium Lasers FR/L 3(30) 3(30) -- -- 30 6.00 2 Barracudas (10 Missiles) R/LBS 4 4 4 4 20 180.00 3 Gauss Rifles (240 rounds)R/LBS 5(45) 5(45) 5(45) -- 3 45.00 2 LRM 20 w/Artemis (120) R/LBS 3(32) 3(32) 3(32) -- 12 22.00 6 ER Medium Lasers R/LBS 3(30) 3(30) -- -- 30 6.00 6 AMS (720 rounds) R/LBS 2(18) -- -- -- 6 3.00 3 Gauss Rifles (240 rounds)AR/L 5(45) 5(45) 5(45) -- 3 45.00 2 LRM 20 w/Artemis (120) AR/L 3(32) 3(32) 3(32) -- 12 22.00 6 ER Medium Lasers AR/L 3(30) 3(30) -- -- 30 6.00 2 Barracudas (10 Missiles) Aft 4 4 4 4 20 180.00 3 Gauss Rifles (240 rounds)Aft 5(45) 5(45) 5(45) -- 3 45.00 2 LRM 20 w/Artemis (120) Aft 3(32) 3(32) 3(32) -- 12 22.00 6 ER Medium Lasers Aft 3(30) 3(30) -- -- 30 6.00 6 AMS (720 rounds) Aft 2(18) -- -- -- 6 3.00 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ TOTALS: Heat: 440 830,000.00

(https://i.imgur.com/M5fQDBI.jpg)
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: marauder648 on September 20, 2018, 11:26:24 AM: And this is the associated Liparius Class although if any survived the Exodus I doubt it, they would be ancient by this point and probably of more use as an immobile facility than anything else

Liparius Class Mobile Repair Yard.

With a massive number of repair yards within Hegemony space, if a warship or jumpship needed to have repairs carried out then they could easily move a jump or two and would find themselves usually in a system with a fully established repair facility. This wealth of facilities made the nascent SLDF seem to forget that not everywhere else had the same level of resources and when the Reunification War came along the SLDF was in for a huge shock to the system.

If a ship was damaged in battle â€˜in the wildsâ€™ then it meant one of two things. Carrying out ad-hoc repairs with the crew doing most of the work, or risking a jump back to an established facility. The problem was that there were no major facilities, at least none captured intact. This could mean a journey of weeks or even months back to a yard for a ship, which came with its own dangers depending on how bad the damage was.

The other option was to simply wait whilst Logistics Command built a temporary yard. Even with their muscle and resources this could take months to build and bring on line, thus taking the damaged ships out of the line for anywhere from 2 â€“ 6 months before repairs could even begin.

Recognising that this was simply unacceptable the SLDF put out an emergency tender for a mobile repair yard that could service, repair and maintain ships in the field without having to bring them home to a fixed (and thus vulnerable) position.

The designers of the Farragut class battleship the mainstay of the SLDFâ€™s battle line accepted the challenge and began working with a design based on the Farragutâ€™s hull.

Removing all but a few weapons for self-defence whilst also reducing the power to the four massive Hispano-Rawlings engines reduced the ships thrust somewhat but this was not needed for a support unit. Some of the weight saved was applied to the hull and the ships beam was increased whilst armour was also thinned out somewhat. This freed up a considerable amount of tonnage but more was needed. The forwards hull was extended by 550 meters (a total length of 1955 meters), this was then combined with the forwards hull to create a 650-meter-long pressurised repair bay accessed by a pair of huge doors in the bow. Whilst not long enough to fully accommodate a cruiser it was enough to allow work crews to work in an assisted environment even if it did look like a ship being serviced would have its bow or stern â€˜hanging outâ€™ of the front of the ship through the huge open doors of the repair bay.
To assist in repairs of larger vessels that could not fit in the forwards repair bay a massive extending gantry system was fitted to the starboard side. Capable of deploying in 45 minutes with a full array of cranes, jibs and retracting servo arms and cutting devices with access to the massive cargo holds inventory to allow the ship to help repair external hull plating as well as carrying out other major structural repairs.

The Farragutâ€™s fearsome fighter compliment was utterly eliminated whilst another two dropship collars were added bringing the total to 4, these would be dedicated tugs and maintenance vessels. The small craft compliment was also increased to 14 up from 10.
The large central 150 meter grav-deck was retained whilst the smaller 45 meter one was enlarged to a 75-meter deck. Additional berths were fitted for other ships crews and the marine compliment was reduced a 50-man security detachment. With next to no weaponry save AMS systems fitted and a pair of NL-45â€™s in the front and stern quarters and with no aerospace fighters aboard the crew compliment went down, but these were replaced with engineers and yard personnel. The cargo bays carried anything from hull armour plating to miles of wiring, spare NAC barrels and laser focusing arrays, deck plating, banks of computers and tonnes of food and other supplies for when a ship just needed to replenish its stocks. The final piece of the puzzle was a very new, very expensive (and somewhat temperamental) Lithium Fusion battery that gave the huge ships considerable strategic mobility, letting them move to ships in need of repair quickly.

The first ship the SLS Liparius was rushed into completion and managed to take part in the closing 9 months of the Reunification War where she was able to provide support for the fleets advancing on Taurus, dramatically shortening the supply chain.

By no means a combat vessel the Liparius was always accompanied by at least two destroyers, often a full group of four would guard her and due to her important strategic nature she would often lurk in a systems Oort cloud, well off the beaten path. Despite her sluggishness in manoeuvring and the ship being all but defenceless she performed well enough in her role under the command of Commodore Karl Stromberg. This performance was enough to have the SLDF press for more orders for the class with another 9 being ordered. The â€™10 Greeksâ€™ as the class were known due to their naming convention being that of Greek/Classical deities and figures were assigned to major fleet elements and kept in constant service.

One ship the SLS Prometheus was lost due to an asteroid impact from a rogue rock which impacted on her bow, causing significant structural damage and starting several on-board fires that quickly got out of control. Abandoned and aflame the ship was scuttled by her escorting destroyers.

The SLS Hecate was crippled over the Titan Yards in the Sol System by forces loyal to Stefan Amaris but the shipâ€™s captain refused to surrender and overloaded the main reactor, destroying the vessel and two Rim World Pinto class vessels in the blast.

The surviving vessels (four in total) at the end of the Amaris Civil War departed with General Kerensky. It is believed that along with a Newgrange class vessel that they helped form a major part of the Lum shipyards.

again a product of my bored mind, thoughts are always welcome :)

(https://i.imgur.com/c4ACfqS.jpg)
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: marauder648 on September 20, 2018, 11:27:49 AM: And here's Plog's take on the Leviathan Class. I was never happy with its design, it looked too short because of its massive height, so I had him flatten her out a bit.

Presented with Vincent for scale.

(https://i.imgur.com/kObBgmM.jpg)
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: marauder648 on September 20, 2018, 11:34:32 AM: This was another one that came about in my musings. I like the Potemkin class but you kind of need a development path for her, a predecessor that was overshadowed by the later ship that ballooned in the typical SLDF 'bigger = better' mindset.

Fearless Class Assault ship.

Length; 1,110 meters
Displacement 1,310.000 tonnes

During the Reunification War the nascent SLDF found to its cost that jumpships were vulnerable and little more than barely mobile targets and the loss of a large jumpship and its dropship cargo could adversely affect a whole campaign.

Whilst Warships did carry dropships these were mostly assault dropships for their own defence and space superiority leaving the job of hauling troops to jumpships which in turn required heavy escorting, taking units away from the fleet and front lines.

The Admiralty put forwards tenders for a large â€˜troop carrier warshipâ€™ that would be able to carry a large number of dropships as well as be able to defend itself from hostile ships that usually went jumpship hunting, normally destroyers, frigates and corvettes.

Blue Nosed Clipperships put forwards a design for what they called an ASDC (Assault Ship Docking Collar) design. Based on the Monsoon class battleshipâ€™s hull the design featured 14 dropships collars in two groups of seven, running in a row along the ships spine and belly.

The interior was also heavily reconfigured to replace the Monsoonâ€™s trio of grav-decks with a pair of 85 meter grav-decks filling out the majority of the interior. The aerospace compliment was also altered, reduced to 12 fighters but also capable of carrying 12 small craft or shuttles. The weapons fit was also radically altered with the majority of the autocannon based weapons being removed save the bow and fore/aft quarter autocannons all be it with the weapons being reduced in calibre to NAC-20â€™s.

The missile launchers were also altered and replaced with Barracuda launchers to deal with smaller and more agile targets with eight launchers being carried (two on each fore and aft quarter). The broadside NAC-35 turrets and associated ammunition were replaced with four turrets, each mounting a quartet of NL45â€™s. The bow and stern quarter Medium Naval PPCâ€™s were also retained. The lasers increased the ships heat load significantly and extensive improvements were made to the weapons cooling systems allowing for the ship to fire roughly 75% of its armament without heat issues.
It had been planned to fit the ships with a Lithium-Fusion battery but the expense of this very new piece of equipment and tightening budgets meant that it could not be fitted, although space was set aside for it to be added.
Deployment

Completed after the Reunification War the first Fearless class ASD left her slip at Titan to begin trials with the fleet. The odd number of docking collars was initially seen as strange but instead the ship was permanently assigned two dropships for self-defence purposes whilst the other twelve would be used to carry troop and Mech carrying vessels. Although slow and ponderous to answer the helm the class was not meant to take part in the battle line unless something had gone very wrong, and war-games found that the ship could handily defend itself against destroyerâ€™s or other smaller faster craft attacking it.

Unfortunately the computer systems required repeated overhauls to fix targeting issues with the new programmes that would allow the mountings to engage small craft. Electrical gremlins also were common with the class having to run their reactors at 105% which meant more common trips to the yards for overhauls. Because the ships were yard queens they were also not often deployed but often spent long times laid up in reserve.

Despite these faults, twenty of the class were built and were eventually displaced by the larger, more modern Potemkin class. Relegated to second line squadrons the surviving Fearless class ships would see service in the Amaris crisis when they were pulled from mothballs. Two were salvaged by Rim World Forces and were destroyed in battle, the four survivors joined General Kerensky on Operation EXODUS and have not been seen since.

Code: [Select]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Class/Model/Name: Fearless Class Assault Ship Mass: 1,310,000 tons Equipment: Mass Power Plant, Drive & Control: 157,200.00 Thrust: Safe Thrust: 2 Maximum Thrust: 3 Kearny-Fuchida Hyperdrive: Compact (Integrity = 26) 592,775.00 Jump Sail: (Integrity = 6) 96.00 Structural Integrity: 90 117,900.00 Total Heat Sinks: 3,900 Single 3,295.00 Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 15,300.00 Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters: 3,275.00 Fire Control Computers: .00 Food & Water: (300 days supply) 829.50 Armor Type: Improved Ferro-aluminum (1,469 total armor pts) 2,358.00 Capital Scale Armor Pts Location: L / R Fore: 273 Fore-Left/Right: 244/244 Aft-Left/Right: 244/244 Aft: 220 Cargo: Bay 1: Fighters (12) with 2 doors 1,800.00 Bay 2: Small Craft (12) with 2 doors 2,400.00 Bay 3: Cargo (1) with 2 doors 281,980.50 DropShip Capacity: 14 Docking Hardpoints 14,000.00 Grav Decks #1 - 2: (95-meter diameter) 100.00 Escape Pods: 95 (7 tons each) 665.00 Crew and Passengers: 75 Officers (65 minimum) 750.00 235 Crew (232 minimum) 1,645.00 74 Gunners (74 minimum) 518.00 85 Steerage Passengers 425.00 84 Bay Personnel .00 Weapons and Equipment Loc SRV MRV LRV ERV Heat Mass ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1 NAC/20(30 rounds) Nose 20 20 20 -- 60 2,512.00 4 Medium NPPC Nose 36 36 36 36 540 7,200.00 2 NAC/10(60 rounds) FL/R 20 20 20 -- 120 8,024.00 3 Medium NPPC FL/R 27 27 27 27 810 10,800.00 4 Barracuda(60 msls) FL/R 8 8 8 8 80 4,320.00 4 NL45 L/RBS 18 18 18 18 560 7,200.00 4 NL45 L/RBS 18 18 18 18 560 7,200.00 4 NL45 L/RBS 18 18 18 18 560 7,200.00 4 NL45 L/RBS 18 18 18 18 560 7,200.00 3 Medium NPPC AL/R 27 27 27 27 810 10,800.00 4 Barracuda(60 msls) AL/R 8 8 8 8 80 4,320.00 1 NAC/20(30 rounds) Aft 20 20 20 -- 60 2,512.00 4 Medium NPPC Aft 36 36 36 36 540 7,200.00 1 Lot Spare Parts (2.00%) 26,200.00 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ TOTALS: Heat: 5,340 1,310,000.00 Tons Left: .00 Calculated Factors: Total Cost: 13,549,384,000 C-Bills Battle Value: 96,099 Cost per BV: 140,994.02 Weapon Value: 74,255 (Ratio = .77) Damage Factors: SRV = 2,938; MRV = 2,938; LRV = 2,345; ERV = 976 Maintenance: Maintenance Point Value (MPV) = 535,381 (133,913 Structure, 244,128 Life Support, 157,340 Weapons) Support Points (SP) = 861,975 (161% of MPV) BattleForce2: Not applicable

(https://i.imgur.com/IjiMiDV.jpg)
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 20, 2018, 02:18:28 PM: War of Reaving

Burrock Ships from Stockpile

Riga-class Hetherington, the Kimagure-class Admiral Russell Nga, the Mako-class Stone Crab and Ingrid Bucharev,

pg 80

Davion Class Nikolai Tesla

pg 97
Stellar System Waypoint 531
In November, the Andromeda arrived with the Third Seeker Cluster on its return to the Clan Homeworlds from distant Rim Worlds space. They noted the presence of what appeared to be a derelict Mako-class WarShip near an orbiting space station. The Seekers approached the asteroid cluster openly, believing they had discovered an ancient Star League cache. When the WarShip moved to engage, disgorging a few fighters and DropShips, Star Colonel Enrique Yeh threw the small Scorpion force into the fray. The Fuchida, in its damaged state, fared poorly against the eager Andromeda and the Seekers dispatched what few bandits were in the system in short order.

page 128

With the discovery of a large cache of war material at Waypoint 531, the Scorpion leadership knew that it could execute a quick war of conquest of a Deep Periphery state rather than expend dwindling resources on risky exploration missions. Plans were made to invade
and conquer the systems of Nueva Castile.

page 129

The Ophidian (Potemkin) and Silver Snake (Aegis) brought out of the Vipersâ€™ naval reserve cache

page 125

CDS Deal Breaker [She was a Samarkand-class carrier we activated from our Vinton naval cache. It was, sadly, the only one of the small cache we could get into proper order and crew; the other two vessels had suffered too much damage from a passing comet in 3011. â€“SK]

page 130

How they didn't check their Cache in over 60 years is beyond stupid

The Coyote Khan was surprised to discover three Star League vessels at the systemâ€™s nadir and prepared for combat. Upon further inspection, the task force discovered the WarShips were nominally joined together, forming a crude equivalent of a space station. The WarShips were later identified as those from Clan Mongoosesâ€™ old naval cache and were in no condition for self-defense.

page 164

It currently occupies the lone repair bay of the Lionâ€™s only naval station located at Niles.

page 171

Clans and to visit the Sharkâ€™s only naval cache on the outskirts of Babylon. Most of the Clanâ€™s WarShip fleet had been activated decades ago; the Babylon cache contained only two military vessels and several older JumpShips. The operational team arrived at Babylon in August, using the Sharkâ€™s extensive navigational data to avoid most of the Clansâ€™ outposts and stations. They located the cache with ease but only one of the two vessels appeared to be in decent condition, the Essex-class WarShip Marseilles. The other vessel had developed severe system problems and was too large a job for the small group to handle.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 20, 2018, 03:12:23 PM: Missing ship from Klondike is the Texas class Perth. Captured by Star Adder and only notable thing wrong with it was its weapons systems. Possible in Cache??

Just to help track the 402 Warships included this.

Dragoon Naval Command (Formerly Widowmaker Ships)
Lola III-class destroy WDS Darius & WDWS Nelson
Aegis-class heavy cruiser WDWS Alexander
Congress-class frigate WDWS Beowulf,
Sovetskii Soyuz-class heavy cruiser WDWS Athena
Vincent Mk. 42-class corvette WDWS Mars
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Takiro on September 20, 2018, 03:38:44 PM: I am gonna try to get in touch with Irose about this subject. I'd love to hear what he thinks

Some interesting info Bradshaw.

I keep meaning to lend you Betrayal of Ideals from which you sight a great deal of Wolverine things. The Norfolk and San Diego Boneyards (along with the other eight eluded to in the novel) may have been shutdown as a result of Switchback. This is where I was going to have the Free Guilds step in to provide maintenance as well as Guild Keshik for additional security (back in the 2820s). Cause I am thinking there was a naval reserve reorganization that took place after that event.

By the Wars of Reaving I get the sense that the Clans each had their own naval reserves parked somewhere around the Homeworlds. I believe there was talk of an Adder Warship Cache some where between the Pentagon Worlds and the Kerensky Cluster. Also I think other Clan stockpiles are out there waiting to be discovered as so many had left the Homeworlds by the time of the Reavings. Perhaps there is stuff out there which was forgotten or misplaced.

I didn't know about Star Adder capturing the Perth. It could have been destroyed between now and then too.

Also didn't know about the Wolf Dragoon warship being Widowmaker warships.

Thanks for volunteering designs marauder648. I appreciate it. Why don't we hold off on that until we have a specific fleet plan aka naval design contest for this all?
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Takiro on September 20, 2018, 05:48:58 PM: Just blowing the dust of Battlespace which states on page 28 that the Exodus Civil War destroyed approximately 100 warships like the Michael Norman (Black Lion class Battlecruiser) as well as the Noble House and Long March (both Congress class Frigates). That fight is described in detail on page 31 of Battlespace.

This book also has the total number produced of each Star League Warship class. 170 Bug-Eyes estimated if your wondering..

Page 12 also says Kerensky's Exodus Fleet consisted of 402 warships and 1,349 transports departed the InnerSphere from New Samarkand on November 5, 2784.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 20, 2018, 06:37:22 PM: So with further losses your talking 30 to 40 probably in reserve tops 50.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: lrose on September 20, 2018, 07:34:05 PM: Some quick thoughts on warships on the exodus
TR3075 says that there were multitudes of Samarkands- and many served as escorts in the SLDF (ignoring issues that the the word multitudes implies a huge number when house fleets were small) it's possible 2 or 3 went on the Exodus TR3075 says it is unknown if any went.

At least 1 Du Shi Wang - the Jasmine Liao was captured (presumably by the HAF) renamed the Quicksilver Mongoose (by the HAF? Not clear) survived the liberation of Terra, joined the Exodus and served with Clan Mongoose before being mothballed after the absorption - so we need to add 1 Du Shi Wang to the Exodus.

Tr3057R implies that the Nightwing and Tracker were out of service and did not go on the Exodus.
The Vigilant looks like they were all turned over to the houses- so none on the Exodus

The Mako- TR3057R says the clans have none- as Bradshaw says War of Reaving says they have at least 2- probably not more then that since the SLDF only had a handful of the designs.

Bonaventure - probably none

Baron, Carson and naga should be none.

Davions became Whirlwinds

I don't think any Darts went on the exodus- yes there were some but they were in the periphery

Riga I Frigate- might be a few that were taken out of mothballs.

Kimagure - clearly states 5 survived and went on the Exodus

The Quixotes all became Vokgas.

6 Avatars went on the Exodus and became liberators

Luxors - theoretically none but that has never stopped the writers before.

Monsoons- I am guessing none

Farragut - I recall mention of one surviving - despite the write up in TR3057R

Maybe a few of the Field Report 2765 ships would have been in the SLDF having been turned over to the SLDF during the RW- but again I can't see that many.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Takiro on September 20, 2018, 07:41:14 PM: The Mako and the Dart are good reminders to me to look for Rim Worlds ships maybe in Operation Liberation Historicals.

Quote from: lrose on September 20, 2018, 07:34:05 PM
Maybe a few of the Field Report 2765 ships would have been in the SLDF having been turned over to the SLDF during the RW- but again I can't see that many.

I will take a look and see what it says in the FR 2765 as well as Reunfication War Historical.

I know we didn't agree with a lot of TPTB work (small warship numbers for the Houses) but I just want to get a reasonable starting point than we can alter post 3052. ;)
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 20, 2018, 08:03:33 PM: Quicksilver Mongoose was names by the Clan it was an ask the writers question on main boards

We definitely have proof of two samarkands with adders and sharks

Riga as well with adders

Tomorrow ill tally up the list now and see what we have numbers wise. I'd say roughly 260 to 270

Just because my 230 count didn't count the SLDF Carracks
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: marauder648 on September 21, 2018, 05:59:42 AM: Re the Carracks we know they were building them in the Kerensky cluster in both the armed and not so armed versions.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 21, 2018, 08:39:31 AM: Quote from: marauder648 on September 21, 2018, 05:59:42 AM
Re the Carracks we know they were building them in the Kerensky cluster in both the armed and not so armed versions.

D'oh thats going to make that harder.

Interesting little bit while reading the Carrack in detail in 3057R

Quote
In an unusual move, the Nova Cats, in 2990, traded three merchant ships with their bays full of supplies to the Star Adders in exchange for three Lola III-class destroyers.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 21, 2018, 08:56:31 AM: We knew about New Kent but this was interesting

The Wolves and Coyotes had noted the Viperâ€™s expansion of their New Kent shipyards begun in early 3061 and had bargained hard for the rights to use the yards to upgrade their aging WarShips.

pg 22

Evidence of a shipyard at Priori

In late 3073 the Star Adders found themselves in increasing need of both the orbital facilities and resources available from the world of Priori - particularly the abundant foodstuffs.

The planetâ€™s defense was supplemented by a small SDS system [this was a small defense system originally put in place by the Adders â€“SK] near the Clanâ€™s former shipyard. Though none of the Burrock vessels moved to intercept the incoming Adder force, it was obvious the usurping Clan was ready for them.

pg 131 132 War of reaving

Rebuilding efforts have gone into revitalizing the Clanâ€™s BattleMech and Elemental factories, and expanding the Kirin shipyards in hopes of negotiating repair services with the other Clans

With only Kirin as the Clanâ€™s main shipyardâ€”the Tamaron yards were demolished by the Steel Vipers

pg 165

Clan Star Adder lost fourteen WarShips during the Wars of Reaving. More importantly, the Clan lost its main shipyards over Albion and discovered extensive damage to the captured Priori yard. The losses have reduced much of the Clanâ€™s maintenance and repair capabilities. Even with the new Hoard yard being constructed

pg 168
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 21, 2018, 10:40:38 AM: Quote from: Takiro on September 20, 2018, 05:48:58 PM
Just blowing the dust of Battlespace which states on page 28 that the Exodus Civil War destroyed approximately 100 warships like the Michael Norman (Black Lion class Battlecruiser) as well as the Noble House and Long March (both Congress class Frigates). That fight is described in detail on page 31 of Battlespace.

I think they altered the Battlespace fluff. BTW I couldn't find that in the Battlespace was it revised ever? Because my edition has different info on that page.

Quote
Perhaps the best news for the Clans was that the naval caches had remained relatively unplundered. Only a handful of WarShips were still active in any way across the Pentagon systems; most were undermanned and barely functioning, parked in orbits around their home worlds, meant to look defensive when in reality they did little more than provide communications and reconnaissance support. The WarShip caches, however, did not remain entirely hidden (save for one). The spacefarers discovered most of them and took up residence in them, reactivating enough systems on the ships to power the grav decks and gardensâ€”and almost certainly some of the weapons systems.

Klondike

Arcadia
Quote
Khan Absalom Truscott left nothing to chance when it came to the Arcadian naval cache. Four Clan WarShips and sixteen combat DropShips converged on the cache, landing boarding parties and immediately targeting the bridges and engines of any ship that either fired up its active sensors or attempted to maneuver out of the cache. The battle for the Arcadian cache lasted eleven minutes, during which time five cache ships were disabled while one managed to fire a naval autocannon barrageâ€”missing with all but one shell. It took two more days to completely secure the entirety of the cache, but the primary threat was neutralized within the first fifteen minutes.

At H plus six hours, two of the WarShips assigned to neutralize the cache, as well as the two WarShips tasked to the jump point, all jumped into pirate points in orbit over Arcadia to address the two rebel WarShips assumed to be defending the world. The rebel ships remained in orbit as two Clan WarShips approached each. Though both signaled warning challenges to the inbound Clan ships, the Texas-class Perth surrendered as soon as the Clan gunnery crews fired bracketed warning salvos. (Clan technicians that later boarded the ship reported that only a few of the shipâ€™s weapons remained functional.) That left the Riga-class destroyer Admiral Schone, which initially signaled its surrender, but destroyed the DropShip assigned to deliver the boarding party, breaking orbit in the process and maneuvering for shots on the Clan WarShips. The Admiral Schone landed several hits on the Clan ships, but could never close enough or maneuver to bring its naval autocannon to bear; the two Clan WarShips made quick work of the Schone, whose crew refused to surrender; the shipâ€™s burning and decompressing hulk fell into Arcadiaâ€™s atmosphere, the pieces of which that survived reentry falling in a twelve hundred kilometer wide region of the planetâ€™s southern oceans. Even two centuries later, the occasional remnant of the Schone turns up along a shoreline or in a fishermanâ€™s net

So 1 Warship Lost. This makes me believe that the Adders have more than the Burrocks in your split (as you'll see below they get nothing). I know they lost some versus Mongoose but they basically captured an entire Cache on their own with just one ship lost.

Babylon
Quote
Babylon posed perhaps the greatest naval threat to the invading Clans. Not only was this system home to the largest naval cache established by the SLDF two decades earlier, it also possessed the largest and most active contingent of spacefarers of any of the Pentagon systems. Babylon VI (known colloquially as Sinclair to the natives of the system), with its seven moons, was the focus of a relatively sophisticated resource extraction operation. The world was rich with ice, which the spacefarers needed both for water as well as to convert to oxygen and hydrogen. They had also taken over several grounded mining and industrial DropShips, using them to extract and process ores, most of which they traded away for the food and other resources they needed.

Note Industrial Dropships and Mining Dropships

Quote
Cloud Cobra saKhan Rafe Kardaan took charge of naval operations in the Babylon system, commanding a combined task force of ships hailing from his own Clan as well as Clans Ice Hellion and Sea Fox (Clan Coyote contributed only support in the form of a few Stars of infantrymen). Sea Fox Star Commander Hintre Solomon and Ice Hellion Star Commander Broda Montose each led squadrons tasked with pacifying the spacefarer enclaves at the two jump points. As with the actions in the Arcadia system, the sudden appearance of the squadrons, coupled with a few well-placed shots, cowed the majority of ships. Only a handful of JumpShips executed emergency jumpsâ€”all but three to jump points in the Pentagon already controlled by Clan ships.

Only ship lost in the battle was repaired later its stated

Quote
The naval reserve secured Babylon VI, and sent their own damage control teams to the Inquisitor; their efforts saved the ship (though it would be decades before the Clans would be able to repair the ship and return it to service), but not the more than two hundred crewmembers that were killed in the attack.

Circe
Quote
A Congress and a Quixote stood post at Circeâ€™s zenith point, though the Quixote had remained docked with the recharging station during the entirety of the SABLE SUN surveillance. Still, the two ships represented a challenge, one met by McKenna in the form of his namesake (the McKenna-class James McKenna) and the Cameron-Class Admiral Gerda Cameron, plus a squadron of combat DropShips. Both Clan WarShips jumped in to pointblank range of the Congress. Despite the Clansâ€™ strong showing, the Congress attempted to put up a fightâ€”or, as it actually turned out, to delay the Clan ships enough for the residents of the enclave to escape. Despite sustaining multiple crippling hits to its engineering and command decks, the Congress fought as best as it could, destroying seven DropShips and even scoring a few hits on the Clan WarShips before succumbing to the fire leveled at it. At the same time, dozens of spacefarer DropShips, and a number of JumpShips, all went active at the same time, each setting out in different directions. That gave the Quixote the cover it needed to cut loose from the recharge station and jump away (eventually, the Quixote would become a central figure in the â€œBattle of the Pentagon Runâ€). With the Congress destroyed and the Quixote escaped, it was only a matter of time before the rest of the spacefarersâ€™ ships were captured. A number of JumpShips jumped awayâ€”all but three were captured upon jumping to other Clan-held jump pointsâ€”but the rest of the ships were taken

So Congress Destroyed

Quote
Defending Outpost One were a McKenna and a Sovetskii Soyuz, and as the Clan squadron soon discovered, a docked Potemkin fully loaded with DropShips.

Khan McKenna dispatched the Black Lion-class Thunderbolt and the Avatar-class Korat to cow Outpost One.

That gave the spacefarers the time to begin evacuating the settlement; the Potemkin and three JumpShips pulled away from the colony and jumped away as the McKenna and Sovetskii Soyuz were making their final death blows. The Clans captured the settlement and dozens of DropShips and JumpShips, along with thousands of spacefarers; the majority got away, however, on the Potemkin.
In the hands of the Clans, Outpost One became their primary spaceport within the Pentagon; both personnel and materiel moved through this station before moving on to their destinations within the Pentagon and back out to Strana Mechty. Throughout the years, the Clans expanded Outpost One, which still serves as their largest and busiest spaceport within their homeworlds.

So McKenna and a Sovetskii Soyuz destroyed here

Dagda
Quote
Aleksandr Kerenskyâ€™s SLDF chose the Dagda system as the home port of its fleet. Though ships and squadrons were assigned to (or mothballed in) different systems, Dagdaâ€”rich with ores and other natural resourcesâ€”became home to the one naval shipyard constructed by the SLDF-in-exile. When the Clans returned, however, that shipyard and its associated naval cache were nothing but a vast cloud of broken ships and scattered debris. All had been victims of a massive naval engagement that had consumed scores of WarShips and DropShips

Well here we find the massive losses which is different from the beginning of this info found that they were relatively untouched as this is the largest one would think differently.

Quote
Unlike naval operations in the first three Pentagon systems, the four Clans assigned to the Dagda operation bid for the honorâ€”or, more appropriate to the general consensus among the Clans, for the choreâ€”of securing the system. Clans Burrock and Widowmaker won the rights to capture the spacefarers

Quote
Burrock Khans Polczyk assigned Qudi Hutchinson, promoted temporarily to the rank of Star Colonel, the task of securing the zenith point, as well as all enroute shipping to the north of the system primary. With a large group of JumpShips and DropShips clustered around the zenith point, Hutchinson jumped her own JumpShips and one WarShip in surrounding the zenith point, immediately dropping an ECM bubble over the point and launching DropShips to discourage resistance. Only three JumpShips attempted to break away from the pack and spin up their K-F Drives; all three capitulated when Hutchinsonâ€™s flagship, the Avatar-class Constantineau, destroyed their engines. Likewise, a handful of DropShips tried to break through the blockade, surrendering after only a few warning shots from the Constantineauâ€™s guns.

Quote
The Lola III class Black Venom (Widowmaker vessel)

Based off this fluff I don't see Burrock, Widowmaker, Fire Mandrills and Goliath Scorpions having much gains from Captured Warships. Especially compared to the prior Pentagon Worlds.

Eden
Quote
Eden represented a veritable cake walk for the Clan crews assigned to secure the Pentagon systems. Operation SABLE SUN had shown that the Eden SLDF Naval Cache had apparently remained undiscovered by the spacefarers, hidden as it was within a massive series of caverns within one of Eden IIâ€™s smallest moons (really little more than a large asteroid that Eden II had captured in an erratic orbit).

In the three or so years that the Clans surreptitiously utilized the cache as a listening post, they lost one JumpShip and one WarShip, as well as the K-F Drives on two other ships, to miscalculated jumps to these points. Of course, the contents of the cache contained far more than was lost; even still, the Eden II pirate points were closed (ordered off-limits) until the start of Operation KLONDIKE.

So one ship lost here

Quote
In September of 2821, Kardaanâ€™s fleet made its greatest breakthrough; after combing through the remains of a Riga destroyer theyâ€™d crippled

Nother one here

Quote
A spacefarer counterattack, in a system 110 LY from Circe, brought them only defeat against a Clan foe superior in numbers and firepower. It was wholly one-sidedâ€”five Clan cruisers and battleships, and three dozen DropShips ripped into three spacefarer destroyers and cruisers. Moreover, it signaled the beginning of the end for the rebels.

Possibly 3 here doesn't say if destroyed or salvaged

Quote
That finally happened in a system the Clans designate EC821-387D. Eleven spacefarer JumpShips, plus five more WarShips (including the mostly unarmed Potemkin and Quixote that escaped the Circe system) faced nine Clan WarShips and their supporting vessels. The resulting battle saw the spacefarer fleet broken; two of their WarShips, plus one more Clan WarShip, were destroyed in
the fighting, as were nine total DropShips. The JumpShips were captured, but both the Potemkin and the Quixote managed to jump away; it was two weeks before the Clans tracked down the
Potemkin and captured it (and the twenty thousand people it and its DropShips were transporting). The Quixote was never seen again, however.

3 more destroyed here and one vanished without a trace.

Quote
The run was over, as was the spacefarer way of life. The people were transported back to Strana Mechty for â€œintegrationâ€ into the Clan society (many of these individuals would be later used to open up the naval caches and renovate the ships contained within),

Free Guilds born from this

Quote
As Aleksandr's eldest son, Major-General Nicholas Kerensky, commander of the 146th Royal BattleMech Division, was his designated heir to take command of the exiled SLDF. Though he had the loyalty of his own unit and most of the navy, the rest of the army rejected him due to his lack of combat experience and made their own attempts to assume command. Realizing that civil war was inevitable, Nicholas decided to take those loyal to him on a Second Exodus to Strana Mechty, one of the newly-founded colonies in the Kerensky Cluster. Over the next several months Nicholas' forces were able to evacuate nearly a quarter of the civilian population - roughly a million people - with the last transports leaving by the end of January 2802. While the majority of the navy had sided with Nicholas, only the 146th and 149th BattleMech Division left in full with him.

Based off this I'm surprised Clan's don't have a stronger tie to the Navy then they do. I mean only two divisions out of how many that left on the Exodus joined him?
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 21, 2018, 11:01:56 AM: Golden Age

Quote
It was the largest fleet battle in Clan history, with almost thirty WarShips involved in the fighting plus dozens of DropShip and scores of fighters. The cruiser-based Mongoose fleet was outmatched by the heavier Jaguar battleships, but their fighters helped even out the battle. It seemed that the Mongooses were going to carry the day when the Quicksilver Mongoose shattered the spine of the McKenna-class Obsidian. However, the Lola III Storm Cat crippled the Mongoose battleship, leaving it to drift out of the system leaking atmosphere. With a huge turn of momentum, half of the Mongoose fleet regrouped while the other half tried to press the advantage. In the end, half of the Jaguar fleet was destroyed and the remaining four Mongoose WarShips surrendered.

So if we say almost even in numbers lets say 13 Mongoose vs 15 Jaguars So we have 8 Warships Destroyed from Mongoose 4 captured by Jaguars and 1 Mothballed.

Jaguars then lost 8 warships in this battle as well. 12 afterwards with Mongoose isorla.

Quote
To make protecting their holdings easier, a quarter of the former Mongoose territory was given away in exchange for votes from the Grand Council to allow the Jaguars to acquire some mothballed ships to rebuild their shattered fleet.

Say the Grand Council allowed them to get the amount lost vs Mongoose that brings them up to 20 warship. Add in the Fredasa's and Carrack that are probably built by clans that brings them to the 23 they have at current times.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Takiro on September 21, 2018, 12:11:46 PM: Some excellent data mining Bradshaw in regards to shipyards. Whose yards were at Priori?

In regards to the Burrock-Star Adder Naval split please look at this link.

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=15088.msg1168447#msg1168447

The Battlespace book was split into halves. First is the Rule Book and second is the Sourcebook. The info provided on the Exodus is in the Sourcebook or second half.

In regards to the Free Guilds and stronger ties to the Navy you are right. While a majority of the Star League Navy supported Nicholas and they have solid transport capabilities it was the spacefarers now called the Free Guilds (at least in my vision) that helped evacuate alot of denizens and equipment. I'd say the Navy was busy with military matters.

And yes you'd think the Clans would be much more Naval oriented than Mechwarrior oriented after this.

Did you see Fasa and the Pentagon Run campaign in Klondike? Might be more info there.

Interesting stuff on the Golden Age too. The Mongoose Absorption is interesting certainly. The Widowmaker Absorption may have more info too.

Empires Aflame is the only semi-canon alternate of the BattleTech universe and it diverges when Kerensky is assassinated following the Amaris War and DeChevalier leds the Terran Supremacy. The Confederated Suns has been a what if since the House Sourcebooks hinted during the 2nd Succession War (I believe) that Paul Davion and Chancellor Liao came to an agreement eventually merging their empires into one. It is an alternate and has no useful data to be mined, everything could be very different.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 21, 2018, 12:27:40 PM: Quote from: Takiro on September 21, 2018, 12:11:46 PM
Some excellent data mining Bradshaw in regards to shipyards. Whose yards were at Priori?

Burrocks

I
Quote
n regards to the Burrock-Star Adder Naval split please look at this link.

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=15088.msg1168447#msg1168447

Could it be perhaps it was that the Burrocks may have had ships that contained more Docks than the Adders. Adders being forced to mothball most of their navy acquired in Klondike due to no shipyards. Having to pay a huge fee thought to probably Ravens maybe Burrocks as well as it seems like they have 2 shipyards themselves.

Quote
Did you see Fasa and the Pentagon Run campaign in Klondike? Might be more info there.

Yea I read it funny they named a planet after the old company that died out

Quote
Interesting stuff on the Golden Age too. The Mongoose Absorption is interesting certainly. The Widowmaker Absorption may have more info too.

Thanks my numbers work out based upon their 3052 numbers and the generalization of the fluff given.

Quote
Empires Aflame is the only semi-canon alternate of the BattleTech universe and it diverges when Kerensky is assassinated following the Amaris War and DeChevalier leds the Terran Supremacy. The Confederated Suns has been a what if since the House Sourcebooks hinted during the 2nd Succession War (I believe) that Paul Davion and Chancellor Liao came to an agreement eventually merging their empires into one. It is an alternate and has no useful data to be mined, everything could be very different.

gotcha going to delete that post then as it doesn't count towards this.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 21, 2018, 12:38:36 PM: Quote from: Takiro on September 21, 2018, 12:11:46 PM
The Widowmaker Absorption may have more info too.

Interestingly enough despite it being a tenacious fight it seems like it was concentrated solely by ground troops. I think thats why Wolf Dragoons had 6 of their Warships. With Wolf still having an impressive 19 themselves.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 21, 2018, 02:06:27 PM: Searching Liberation of Terra Books now just to see what it says about things

A Difference of Philosophy
The design philosophies of modern WarShips and those of the modern era differ markedly. Compared to their modern kin, Star League vessels are often under-armored and lacked point defenses, making them vulnerable to enemy aerospace and missile attacks. While essentially correct, this view neglects a key factor in the SL DF navy; unlike todayâ€™s isolated behemoths, WarShips of the 2760s were designed to operate as part of squadrons and fleets, relying on their companions for defense and screening. This apes the ultra-specialized aspects of the Regular Army, something the sheer size of the SLDF allowed but which isnâ€™t practical in the pitiful modern fleets. Today we think of destroyers and frigates and cruisers, but in the Star League thereâ€™d be a clear distinction between a fleet destroyer and a vessel intended for independent operations. There was little need for carrier WarShips like the FWLâ€™s Thera (though some pseudo-carriers like the Kimagure and Aegis existed), instead DropShips like the Titan served as the base for air wings.

â€”Admiral Heather Alexander, The Black and the
Blue: Navies though the millennia, Oriente Military Press, 3061

On the eve of the Periphery Uprising the SLDF fielded an immense fleet of more than 1,500 front-line WarShips (plus another 750 in the garrison fleet).

Garrison Fleet
Commander (Flagship): None
Composition: Circa 750 destroyers and cruisers

Naval Reserve
While the SLDFâ€™s active fleet comprised some 2,250 vessels this represented only seventy percent of its total strength. The remaining vessels, around a thousand ships, were held in the reserve, mothballed to save on operating costs or else undergoing periodic refits. In time of conflict these vessels could be reactivated and used to bolster the Star League Navy. Though refits on some vessels were accelerated after the Periphery Uprising, reactivating the Reserve Fleet was not considered a priorityâ€”the existing deployment grossly outclassed the Periphery fleetsâ€”and so most of these vessels sat idle and forgotten. Unfortunately for the Hegemony, Amaris had not forgotten and using codes his observers aboard the fleet had gathered, suborned over a hundred vessels which he employed in the execution of his coup. Several hundred more were drafted into the Imperial Navy after the takeover, the remainder being scuttled by SLDF rearguard actions or else unusable due to lack of parts or manpower.

So the SLDF left 12 Warships with Comstar of the 414 survivors out of over 2300 before the Coup.

Comstar Fleet as of Operation Bulldog without Faslane and Dante Class that they built afterwards

Which of these were ones left and which they salvaged over the years I don't know.

CSV Invisible Truth - Cameron-Class
CSV Anastasius Focht - Suffren-class
CSV Divine Wisdom - Lola III-class
CSV Holy Martyrdom - Lola III-class
CSV Strength Through Adversity - Lola III-class
CSV Vision of Truth - Potemkin-class
CSV Alacrity - Vincent-class
CSV Blake's Strength - Black Lion-class
CSV Manchester - Suffren-class
CSV Blake's Vision - Lola III-class
CSV Ranger - Lola III-class
CSV Enlightened Path - Volga-class
CSV Defender of Versailles - Essex-class
CSV Resilience - Vincent-class
CSV Determination - Vincent-class
CSV Cleansing Fire - Congress-class
CSV Blake's Vengeance - Sovetskii Soyuz-class
CSV Righteous Fury - Aegis-class
CSV Swift Justice - Aegis-class
CSV Hammerstrike - Essex-class
CSV Hollings York - Congress-class
CSV Avenging Sword - Aegis-class
CSV Deathblow - Essex-class
CSV Brandenburg Crusader - Essex-class
CSV Harmonious Thought Sovetskii Soyuz class
CSV Leander Lola-class
CSV Emerald Essex class
CSV Starlight Essex class

I can't find anywhere a centralized list of Wobbie Ships.

This is just because I was thinking of your Shattered Dawn universe while reading through all this. Would there have been such a quick jump back into war in your universe without this....

Quote
By 2821, exhaustion set in and a series of accords ended the First Succession War. Tensions remained high and the peace would be short-lived; the Second Succession War began in 2828, and though less brutal than its predecessor, it further ravaged the Inner Sphere. At the time naked ambition seemed at fault for the renewed hostilities, but records unearthed during the reformation of ComStar in 3052 implied that the order, under the leadership of Primus Toyama, had served as an agent provocateur
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 21, 2018, 02:17:51 PM: Monsoon joining the Exodus-from Liberation of Terra II.

(https://obtforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcfw.sarna.net%2Fwiki%2Fimages%2Farchive%2F8%2F8b%2F20160306182512%2521Monsoon_Exodus.PNG%3Ftimestamp%3D20160306182310&hash=a5b64a34259efaa93f46d46fbcc6d286ed18809d)

A Farragut-class batleship and a Sovetskii Soyuz-class heavy cruiser within the exodus fleet assmbled by General Aleksandr Kerensky

(https://obtforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcfw.sarna.net%2Fwiki%2Fimages%2F5%2F53%2FFarragut_Sovetskii_Soyuz_Exodus.jpg%3Ftimestamp%3D20131220221242&hash=15859f1d879bd88d90588db5b5efd341dbe3f5d1)

Page 9 of FM Updates

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Spicer
(http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Spicer)
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: marauder648 on September 21, 2018, 02:44:42 PM: I've an Excel file at work with the WoB fleet on it, I'll copy that down for tomorrow.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 21, 2018, 03:35:41 PM: Quote from: marauder648 on September 21, 2018, 02:44:42 PM
I've an Excel file at work with the WoB fleet on it, I'll copy that down for tomorrow.

Sweet because I'm almost researched out

I got fooled almost on a book I found online. It turned out to be fan product but I could agree with this.

From a fan book FM Burrock

1 Nightlord Class WarShip â€œAbsolute Truthâ€
1 Sovetskii Soyuz Class WarShip â€œDivine Conquestâ€
1 Liberator Class Warship â€œConstantineauâ€
1 Aegis Class Heavy Cruiser â€œAres's Mightâ€
3 Lola III Class Destroyers â€œCameron's Flame,â€ â€œHagerâ€ and â€œYodanâ€
2 Vincent Mk.42 Class Corvettes â€œVritraâ€ and â€œCentaurâ€
2 Essex Class Destroyers â€œEagleâ€ and â€œTehuantepecâ€
1 Potemkin Class Troop Cruiser â€œRenounâ€
2 York Class Destroyers â€œExodus Rangerâ€ and â€œStar Fireâ€
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 21, 2018, 08:23:12 PM: Found another Samarkand Beijing for cloud cobras wars of reaving page 162
Another Mako Fuchida Bandit Caste page 128
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: marauder648 on September 22, 2018, 02:53:45 AM: The Blakist fleet including suborned/captured ships and their dates of destruction/location.

Word of Blake Fleet

Original/Salvaged Ships

Herald of Wisdom â€“ Aegis â€“ Destroyed CASE WHITE 3068
Enlightened Direction â€“ Naga â€“ Destroyed CASE WHITE 3068
Syrstart â€“ Pinto â€“ Destroyed CASE WHITE 3068
Gorgon â€“ Pinto â€“ Destroyed CASE WHITE 3068
White Devil â€“ Riga I â€“ Destroyed CASE WHITE 3068

Herald of Justice â€“ Aegis â€“ Destroyed over New Avalon 3068
Stalwart Defender â€“ Sovetskii Soyuz â€“ Destroyed over Nusakan 3068

Herald of Retribution â€“ Aegis â€“ Destroyed over Sian 3070

Faithâ€™s End â€“ Lola III â€“ Destroyed over Benjamin 3072
Blade of Holiness â€“ Vincent Mk 39 â€“ Destroyed over Benjamin 3072
Light of Hope â€“ Baron â€“ Destroyed over Luthien 3072
Sword of Promise â€“ Carson â€“ Destroyed over Luthien 3072
Red Angel â€“ Riga I â€“ Destroyed over New Avalon 3072

Immortal Spirit â€“ Aegis â€“ Destroyed over Coventry 3074
Light of Faith â€“ Baron â€“ Destroyed at Odessa 3074
Blade of Righteousness â€“ Vincent Mk 39 â€“ Destroyed over Luthien 3074
Deliverance â€“ Essex â€“ Destroyed over Tukayyid 3074
Blakeâ€™s Sword â€“ McKenna â€“ Destroyed over Tukayyid 3074

Enlightened Spark â€“ Essex â€“ Destroyed at Gabriel 3075

Light of Glory â€“ Baron â€“ Destroyed over Dieron 3077
Dawning Horizon â€“ Essex â€“ Destroyed over Dieron 3077
End of Wisdom â€“ Lola III â€“ Destroyed over Dieron 3077

Righteous Justice â€“ Farragut â€“ Destroyed over Terra 3078
Blakeâ€™s Ascendant â€“ Black Lion â€“ Destroyed over Terra 3078
Rays of Enlightenment â€“ Black Lion â€“ Destroyed over Terra 3078
Sword of Enlightenment â€“ Carson â€“ Destroyed over Terra 3078
Hidden Meaning â€“ Essex â€“ Destroyed over Terra 3078
Divine Forgiveness â€“ Essex â€“ Destroyed over Terra 3078
Divine Command â€“ Naga â€“ Destroyed over Terra 3078
Celestial Threads â€“ Naga â€“ Destroyed over Terra 3078
Milvano â€“ Pinto â€“ Destroyed over Terra 3078
Mayene â€“ Pinto â€“ Destroyed over Terra 3078
Perdition â€“ Dante â€“ Destroyed over Terra 3078
Salvation â€“ Dante â€“ Destroyed over Terra 3078

Blakeâ€™s Redemption â€“ Vincent Mk 39 â€“ Destroyed over Circinus

MIA ships

Vigilant Guardian â€“ Sovetskii Soyuz â€“ Fate unknown
Blade of Divinity â€“ Vincent Mk 39 â€“ Fate unknown
Hippolyta â€“ Agamemnon â€“ Fate Unknown
Corinth â€“ Thera â€“ Fate unknown
Opilione â€“ Zechetinu II â€“ Fate unknown
Erinyes â€“ Newgrange â€“ Fate unknown

Captured/suborned Ships

Nueva Badjoz â€“ Aegis â€“ Destroyed at Shiloh 3070
Xanthos â€“ Black Lion â€“ Destroyed at Shiloh 3070

Olympic â€“ Aegis â€“ Destroyed at Arc Royal 3072
Troy â€“ Agamemnon â€“ Destroyed at Arc Royal 3072
Dark Claw â€“ Essex â€“ Destroyed at Necromo 3072
Bors â€“ Eagle â€“ Destroyed over Benjamin 3072
Robinson â€“ Fox â€“ Destroyed over Benjamin 3072
Robert Kelswa â€“ Fox â€“ Destroyed over Benjamin 3072

Vision Quest (Ex Clan ship) â€“ Aegis â€“ Destroyed over Lutien 3075
Fire Fang (Ex Clan ship) â€“ Whirlwind â€“ Destroyed over Dyev 3076
Hollings York â€“ Congress â€“ Destroyed over Dyev 3076

Araneida â€“ Zechetinu II â€“ Destroyed over Dieron 3077
Karelia â€“ Zechetinu â€“ Destroyed over Dieron 3077
Tirana â€“ Zechetinu â€“ Destroyed over Dieron 3077
Aineas â€“ Agamemnon â€“ Destroyed over Dieron 3077
Sardis â€“ Thera â€“ Captured by Clan Snow Raven over Dieron 3077
Mordred â€“ Eagle â€“ Destroyed over Dieron 3077
Tristram â€“ Eagle â€“ Destroyed over Dieron 3077

Percival â€“ Eagle â€“ Destroyed over New Earth 3078
Lioness â€“ York â€“ Destroyed over New Home 3078

Bedevere â€“ Eagle â€“ Destroyed over Gibson 3078
Impavido â€“ Impavido â€“ Destroyed over Gibson 3078

Melissa Davion â€“ Avalon â€“ Destroyed over Circinus 3081
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: marauder648 on September 22, 2018, 03:52:15 AM: McKenna Class Command Battleship.

Taken from their yards once their keels were laid down the following McKenna's were chosen to be hugely upgraded and improved;

SLS Terra, SLS Caph, SLS Enterprise, SLS McKennaâ€™s Pride, SLS New Earth, and the SLS Star League all emerged from an ultra-secure slip near Titan as totally different vessels.

Unlike the sleek Flight I and II McKenna's the six Command Ships were bulkier and far beamier with a flared and 'fat' superstructure that 'ruined' the ships fine lines. But these aesthetic changes were needed as the Command Ships were built to provide command, control, communications, computers and intelligence support not just to a single fleet or even an entire fleet, but the whole SLDF if needs be. Each Command Ship was capable of coordinating battles, campaigns and whole wars and they were also built to act as an emergency ship for the First Lord or Commanding General of the SLDF should some disaster befall the Hegemony.

To this end the ships were outfitted with a huge array of advanced computers including a full ATAC system that could coordinate up to 200 drones if needed. Augmented sensors, multiple communications arrays, a HPG, and massive databanks allowed the Commander of the ship to coordinate campaigns light years apart. There was berthing for up to 200 Officers and their staff, an additional 500 quarters could easily be converted into a medical centre and this was supported by a full Medical bay that would rival any on Terra. There was also an emergency bunker that could house 50 and had its own power, food, water and air supply to act as a massive safe house if the ship was damaged and was built to be the last refuge of the First Lord (and was the Admiral or Generals sleeping quarters.)

Berths and an armoury was provided for up to 250 CAAN Marines with points for Nighthawk PA(L)â€™s as well for shipboard security although this full detachment was rarely carried. Multiple grav-decks including a large 250 meter one provided for crew comfort and 6000 tons of fuel gave the ship huge endurance, there was even a standalone 175-ton storage facility for liquids in case of emergencies.

The armour package was also heavily augmented with 2250 tons of Ferro-Lamellor Carbide plating the hull, making them the most heavily armoured ships in service. They were also amongst the most heavily armed WarShips in active service too. Retaining the McKennaâ€™s impressive broadside batteries of PPCs the ship also featured large clusters of naval lasers, heavy naval gauss rifles and more AR-10 missile launchers than the standard McKenna. For self-defence against fighters the ship relied on its organic fighter compliment of 60 craft as well as a large battery of lasers, gauss rifles and autocannons (some of these weapon systems did change during the Clan years thanks to lighter Clan technology and that is what is shown here). Ten Small craft were also carried, and this always included 5 Goalkeeper class Defence Craft as well as an assortment of shuttles.
( https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=58802.msg )

These massive ships were hugely expensive to both build and maintain and it was standard practice that only 3 would be active at any one time with the other three being serviced or standing guard in the Sol System. During the Periphery Crisis prior to the fateful events of December 27th, 2766, General Kerensky ordered all six ships activated and made the SLS McKennaâ€™s Pride his flagship before departing for the Periphery.

Priority targets during the Amaris Civil War only one Command McKenna survived to see the Liberation of Terra, the McKennaâ€™s Pride herself and it was this ship that remained Kerenskyâ€™s flagship as he led the SLDF into self-imposed exile.
Now in orbit over Strana Mechty the McKennaâ€™s Pride is an utterly unique ship and is maintained by all the Clans, serving as the tomb and Mausoleum for General Aleksandr Kerensky with the ship in pristine condition as if waiting for an inspection. She still has her intact ATAC computer, despite their hatred of the Drones, the Clans could not bring themselves to alter the Flagship of The Great Father.

(https://i.imgur.com/OXuGCMl.jpg)

Code: [Select]
Class/Model/Name: McKenna Class Command Ship Tech: Clan Ship Cost: $34,212,546,800.00 Magazine Cost: $27,230,000.00 BV2: 196,546 Mass: 1,930,000 K-F Drive System: Compact with L-F Battery Power Plant: Maneuvering Drive Safe Thrust: 3 Maximum Thrust: 5 Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-Carbide Armament: 6 Naval Gauss Rifle Heavy 12 Naval Laser 55 48 Naval PPC Heavy 12 Naval AC 20 9 Capital Launcher AR-10 28 Laser Large ER (C) 12 AC 10 LB-X (C) 8 LRM 20+Art4 (C) 16 Gauss Rifle (C) 32 Laser Medium Pulse (C) 8 AC 5 LB-X (C) 4 Laser Large Pulse (C) 40 AMS (C) Controls: 4,825.00 K-F Hyperdrive: Compact with L-F Battery (38 Integrity) 892,625.00 Jump Sail: (8 Integrity) 127.00 Structural Integrity: 95 183,350.00 Total Heat Sinks: 8378(16756) Double 7,500.00 Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 15000 points 6,120.00 Fire Control Computers: 6,451.98 Armor: 2475 pts Lamellor Ferro-Carbide 2,250.00 Fore: 385 Fore-Left/Right:430/430 Aft-Left/Right: 430/430 Aft: 375 Dropship Capacity: 6 6,000.00 Grav Decks: Small: 4 200.00 (100 meter) Medium: 1 100.00 (250 meter) Large: 0.00 Escape Pods: 150 1,050.00 Life Boats: 150 1,050.00 Crew And Passengers: 135 Officers in 1st Class Quarters 1,350.00 296 Crew in 2nd Class Quarters 2,072.00 377 Gunners and Others in 2nd Class Quarters 2,639.00 195 Bay Personnel 0.00 200 1st Class Passengers 2,000.00 (Command staff personnel) 500 2nd Class Passengers 3,500.00 (Assorted staff/Personnel or up to 500 Hospital beds) 318 Steerage Passengers 1,590.00 (250 Marines, 68 ATAC Operators/Technical staff) Aerospace Group 60 x Aerospace Fighters (8 Bays) 10 x Small Craft (2 Bays) DropShip Docking Collars - 6 # Weapons Loc Heat Damage Range Mass 2 Naval Gauss Rifle Heavy Nose 36 600 (60-C) Extreme-C 14,000.00 2 Naval Gauss Rifle Heavy Nose 36 600 (60-C) 14,000.00 6 Naval Laser 55 Nose 510 330 (33-C) 6,600.00 4 Laser Large ER (C) Nose 48 40 (4-C) 16.00 4 Laser Large ER (C) Nose 48 40 (4-C) 16.00 6 AC 10 LB-X (C) Nose 12 36 (3.6-C) 60.00 5 AMS (C) Nose 5 15 (1.5-C) 2.50 3 Naval AC 20 FL 180 600 (60-C) 7,500.00 3 Naval AC 20 FL 180 600 (60-C) 7,500.00 3 Capital Launcher AR-10 FL 750.00 4 Laser Large ER (C) FL 48 40 (4-C) 16.00 4 LRM 20+Art4 (C) FL 24 64 (6.4-C) 24.00 5 AMS (C) FL 5 15 (1.5-C) 2.50 3 Naval AC 20 FR 180 600 (60-C) 7,500.00 3 Naval AC 20 FR 180 600 (60-C) 7,500.00 3 Capital Launcher AR-10 FR 750.00 4 Laser Large ER (C) FR 48 40 (4-C) 16.00 4 LRM 20+Art4 (C) FR 24 64 (6.4-C) 24.00 5 AMS (C) FR 5 15 (1.5-C) 2.50 4 Naval PPC Heavy LBS 900 600 (60-C) 12,000.00 4 Naval PPC Heavy LBS 900 600 (60-C) 12,000.00 4 Naval PPC Heavy LBS 900 600 (60-C) 12,000.00 4 Gauss Rifle (C) LBS 4 60 (6-C) 48.00 4 Gauss Rifle (C) LBS 4 60 (6-C) 48.00 8 Laser Medium Pulse (C) LBS 32 48 (4.8-C) 16.00 5 AMS (C) LBS 5 15 (1.5-C) 2.50 4 Naval PPC Heavy RBS 900 600 (60-C) 12,000.00 4 Naval PPC Heavy RBS 900 600 (60-C) 12,000.00 4 Naval PPC Heavy RBS 900 600 (60-C) 12,000.00 4 Gauss Rifle (C) RBS 4 60 (6-C) 48.00 4 Gauss Rifle (C) RBS 4 60 (6-C) 48.00 8 Laser Medium Pulse (C) RBS 32 48 (4.8-C) 16.00 5 AMS (C) RBS 5 15 (1.5-C) 2.50 4 Naval PPC Heavy AL 900 600 (60-C) 12,000.00 4 Naval PPC Heavy AL 900 600 (60-C) 12,000.00 4 Naval PPC Heavy AL 900 600 (60-C) 12,000.00 4 Laser Large ER (C) AL 48 40 (4-C) 16.00 4 AC 5 LB-X (C) AL 4 12 (1.2-C) 28.00 8 Laser Medium Pulse (C) AL 32 48 (4.8-C) 16.00 5 AMS (C) AL 5 15 (1.5-C) 2.50 4 Naval PPC Heavy AR 900 600 (60-C) 12,000.00 4 Naval PPC Heavy AR 900 600 (60-C) 12,000.00 4 Naval PPC Heavy AR 900 600 (60-C) 12,000.00 4 Laser Large ER (C) AR 48 40 (4-C) 16.00 4 AC 5 LB-X (C) AR 4 12 (1.2-C) 28.00 8 Laser Medium Pulse (C) AR 32 48 (4.8-C) 16.00 5 AMS (C) AR 5 15 (1.5-C) 2.50 2 Naval Gauss Rifle Heavy Aft 36 600 (60-C) 14,000.00 6 Naval Laser 55 Aft 510 330 (33-C) 6,600.00 3 Capital Launcher AR-10 Aft 750.00 4 Laser Large ER (C) Aft 48 40 (4-C) 16.00 4 Laser Large Pulse (C) Aft 40 40 (4-C) 24.00 6 AC 10 LB-X (C) Aft 12 36 (3.6-C) 60.00 5 AMS (C) Aft 5 15 (1.5-C) 2.50 Ammo Rounds Naval Gauss Rifle Heavy Ammo 150 Naval AC 20 Ammo 360 Capital Launcher Barracuda Ammo 180 Capital Launcher White Shark Ammo 180 Capital Launcher Killer Whale Ammo 180 LRM 20+Art4 (C) Ammo 192 Gauss Rifle (C) Ammo 512 AC 5 LB-X (C) Ammo 480 AC 10 LB-X (C) Ammo 360 AMS (C) Ammo 2880 Cargo - 122035 tons (2 Bays) Liquid Cargo - 160 tons Large NCSS - 500 tons Mobile HPG - 50 Tons Comms equipment - 200 Tons MASH Unit - 10 Units ATAC System with 200 Drone uplink - 68600 tons Imager Hi-res - x 1 Imager Hyperspectral - x 1

This is my thoughts on what the 6 Command McKenna's would be like and a good 'excuse' to use the redone 3057 look, one of the few designs I liked from TRO3057. I had to think of how and why they looked so different so I came up with the idea of these things being the equivalent of a flying Pentagon and White House in one and basically the SLDF's version of Airforce One.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Takiro on September 22, 2018, 07:13:16 AM: A nice idea based on canon work.

Good work on the Word of Blake list but I am not sure why Bradshaw needs it. The Blakists salvaged most of their fleet and restored them at the Gabriel yards. Their ships wouldn't involve the Clans or Quicksilver.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 22, 2018, 07:29:05 AM: Was just wanting to try and track down the ships left in comstars hands by Kerensky
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: marauder648 on September 22, 2018, 11:21:34 AM: Re this picture got me thinking and I came up with this.

(https://obtforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcfw.sarna.net%2Fwiki%2Fimages%2Farchive%2F8%2F8b%2F20160306182512%2521Monsoon_Exodus.PNG%3Ftimestamp%3D20160306182310&hash=a5b64a34259efaa93f46d46fbcc6d286ed18809d)

Tsunami Class Battleship

In 3000 during a usual patrol of the Norfolk Boneyard to check for any Bandit Caste scavengers the CSR Huginn picked up a faint sensor echo where there shouldnâ€™t be one. Ordering a course change to intercept the unidentified potential intruder the inspection of the Boneyard would have to wait as the ship went several days out of her way.

The Huginn didnâ€™t find any Bandits. It found something far more interesting, the SLS Thunderer, one of two Monsoon class battleships that survived the Amaris Civil War and joined Operation EXODUS. The ship had been left at the Norfolk Boneyard, and all but forgotten in the tumult of the Pentagon Civil War and a blown airlock had caused a decompression that had moved the WarShip from her mooring to drift slowly out-system which is how the Huginn was able to detect her. Claiming the ship as Salvage the Huginn sent across a recovery team as well as several small craft to stabilize the ship and stop her drift. Recovery of the Battleship took six weeks whilst the Carrack CSR Venture Star brought in a new jump core to replace the long since removed one as well as the parts needed to get the reactors working again.

Whilst other Khans made generally displeased noises in the Grand Council, they were calmed somewhat by the reports on the Thunderâ€™s condition. Already very old at the start of the Amaris Civil War the ship was only used because of her large cargo and DropShip capacity and the years had not been kind to the ship and she had deteriorated greatly. Some Scientists were surprised that she had survived the jump to Lum, and in truth she was little better than a hulk.

The Ravenâ€™s said they would not recommission the Thunderer, she would instead become a monument in orbit over Lum (which in turn saw Seekers swarming to the ship to go through her Datacores). But the ships recovery did spur the Ravenâ€™s on to other projects.

Whilst the Nightlord class was a capable WarShip, more than a few Star Admirals across different Clans viewed the Class as something less than a â€˜trueâ€™ battleship, and viewed the class as more a glorified DropShip which paid for its massive Mech and Elemental capacity with a substandard aerospace group and a disjointed mix of weapons.

Hearing the grumbles of the Star Admirals, several Scientists began a design program for a potential battleship for Clan service, using the Monsoon class as a basis, if only in terms of tonnage and overall measurements.

The result was the Tsunami class that featured increased thrust ratings, able to match more modern Battleship as well as a hugely thick hide of Ferro Lamellor armour. The Tsunami was built to engage and destroy hostile WarShips, sweeping aside any obstruction or threat and much like the Monsoon class, it was an autocannon heavy ship with a big battery of NAC-30s and NAC-35â€™s giving the ship its main close in punch. A mixture of particle cannons, lasers and missile launchers filled out the armament, allowing the design to engage targets at any range whilst a heavy battery of point defence weapons protected the ship from hostile fighter strikes or boarding craft.

Fitted with a HPG for long range communication and a security detachment of 50 Elementals the Tsunami also boasted a 50 strong Aerospace group as well as room for 8 small craft. For long range missions the ship could carry up to 88,000 tons of cargo as well as nearly 20,000 tons of spare parts to keep her and any squadron mates in operating condition whilst 6,000 tons of fuel give the ship superb range compared to older SLDF designs.

Thanks to a bureaucratic foul up the design was actually forwarded to the Ravenâ€™s Khan who in turn queried the design with his Chief Scientist who had no idea about the project. Quick to assign blame to the small research group who had come up with the design and â€˜wasted timeâ€™ on it, the Khan was actually impressed and â€˜requestedâ€™ that the design be continued including a cost analysis to see if the ship was a viable design.

Whilst more expensive than a Nightlord class ship the Tsunami design was a far more capable WarShip. With minimal intelligence from the Inner Sphere, it was unknown if the Spheroids had produced any new WarShips that could be a threat or challenge them should the Clans return or, should the Bandit Lords of the so-called Great Houses come looking for Kerenskyâ€™s descendants.

It was agreed to build a single ship that would operate with the CSR Snow Raven and allow one of the Ravens Naval Reserve Potemkinâ€™s to be removed from the role of Ersatz Battleship.

Completed in 3010 the CSR Tsunami caused quite a stir when she entered service and other Clans began looking into obtaining the design for themselves.

Code: [Select]
Class/Model/Name: Tsunami Class Battleship Tech: Clan Ship Cost: $27,626,274,004.00 Magazine Cost: $181,196,000.00 BV2: 154,275 Mass: 1,310,000 K-F Drive System: Compact with L-F Battery Power Plant: Maneuvering Drive Safe Thrust: 3 Maximum Thrust: 5 Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-Carbide Armament: 18 Naval PPC Heavy 18 Naval AC 30 6 Naval AC 35 34 Naval Laser 55 4 Capital Launcher AR-10 8 PPC ER (C) 24 Laser Large ER (C) 11 Laser Large Pulse (C) 56 Laser Medium Pulse (C) 16 Laser Medium ER (C) 16 Gauss Rifle (C) 4 AC 20 Ultra (C) 6 AC 10 Ultra (C) 20 AC 5 LB-X (C) Class/Model/Name: Tsunami Class Battleship Mass: 1,310,000 Equipment: Mass Drive: 235,800.00 Thrust Safe: 3 Maximum: 5 Controls: 3,275.00 K-F Hyperdrive: Compact with L-F Battery (27 Integrity) 605,875.00 Jump Sail: (6 Integrity) 96.00 Structural Integrity: 90 117,900.00 Total Heat Sinks: 10731(21462) Double 10,000.00 Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 15000 points 6,120.00 Fire Control Computers: 15,501.00 Armor: 1979 pts Lamellor Ferro-Carbide 1,750.00 Fore: 318 Fore-Left/Right: 338/338 Aft-Left/Right: 338/338 Aft: 308 Dropship Capacity: 5 5,000.00 Grav Decks: Small: 2 100.00 Medium: 1 100.00 Escape Pods: 75 525.00 Life Boats: 75 525.00 Crew And Passengers: 72 Officers in Steerage Quarters 360.00 235 Crew in Steerage Quarters 1,175.00 117 Gunners and Others in Steerage Quarters 585.00 140 Bay Personnel 60 Steerage (Including 50 Elementals and 10 HPG techs) 300.00 # Weapons Loc Heat Damage Range Mass 4 Naval PPC Heavy Nose 900 600 (60-C) Extreme-C 12,000.00 2 Naval AC 30 Nose 200 600 (60-C) 7,000.00 6 Naval Laser 55 Nose 510 330 (33-C) 6,600.00 4 AC 5 LB-X (C) Nose 4 12 (1.2-C) 28.00 4 Laser Large ER (C) Nose 48 40 (4-C) 16.00 8 Laser Medium Pulse (C) Nose 32 48 (4.8-C) 16.00 2 AC 20 Ultra (C) Nose 28 60 (6-C) 24.00 3 Laser Large Pulse (C) Nose 30 30 (3-C) 18.00 3 Naval PPC Heavy FL 675 450 (45-C) 9,000.00 2 Naval AC 30 FL 200 600 (60-C) 7,000.00 2 Naval AC 30 FL 200 600 (60-C) 7,000.00 4 Naval Laser 55 FL 340 220 (22-C) 4,400.00 4 Gauss Rifle (C) FL 4 60 (6-C) 48.00 4 Laser Large ER (C) FL 48 40 (4-C) 16.00 3 AC 10 Ultra (C) FL 18 45 (4.5-C) 30.00 8 Laser Medium Pulse (C) FL 32 48 (4.8-C) 16.00 3 Naval PPC Heavy FR 675 450 (45-C) 9,000.00 2 Naval AC 30 FR 200 600 (60-C) 7,000.00 2 Naval AC 30 FR 200 600 (60-C) 7,000.00 4 Naval Laser 55 FR 340 220 (22-C) 4,400.00 4 Gauss Rifle (C) FR 4 60 (6-C) 48.00 4 Laser Large ER (C) FR 48 40 (4-C) 16.00 3 AC 10 Ultra (C) FR 18 45 (4.5-C) 30.00 8 Laser Medium Pulse (C) FR 32 48 (4.8-C) 16.00 2 Naval AC 30 LBS 200 600 (60-C) 7,000.00 2 Naval AC 35 LBS 240 700 (70-C) 8,000.00 2 Naval AC 30 LBS 200 600 (60-C) 7,000.00 6 Naval Laser 55 LBS 510 330 (33-C) 6,600.00 6 AC 5 LB-X (C) LBS 6 18 (1.8-C) 42.00 4 Laser Large ER (C) LBS 48 40 (4-C) 16.00 4 Laser Large Pulse (C) LBS 40 40 (4-C) 24.00 8 Laser Medium ER (C) LBS 40 56 (5.6-C) 8.00 6 Laser Medium Pulse (C) LBS 24 36 (3.6-C) 12.00 2 Naval AC 30 RBS 200 600 (60-C) 7,000.00 2 Naval AC 35 RBS 240 700 (70-C) 8,000.00 2 Naval AC 30 RBS 200 600 (60-C) 7,000.00 6 Naval Laser 55 RBS 510 330 (33-C) 6,600.00 6 AC 5 LB-X (C) RBS 6 18 (1.8-C) 42.00 4 Laser Large ER (C) RBS 48 40 (4-C) 16.00 4 Laser Large Pulse (C) RBS 40 40 (4-C) 24.00 8 Laser Medium ER (C) RBS 40 56 (5.6-C) 8.00 6 Laser Medium Pulse (C) RBS 24 36 (3.6-C) 12.00 4 Naval PPC Heavy AL 900 600 (60-C) 12,000.00 2 Capital Launcher AR-10 AL 500.00 4 Gauss Rifle (C) AL 4 60 (6-C) 48.00 4 PPC ER (C) AL 60 60 (6-C) 24.00 6 Laser Medium Pulse (C) AL 24 36 (3.6-C) 12.00 4 Naval PPC Heavy AR 900 600 (60-C) 12,000.00 2 Capital Launcher AR-10 AR 500.00 4 Gauss Rifle (C) AR 4 60 (6-C) 48.00 4 PPC ER (C) AR 60 60 (6-C) 24.00 6 Laser Medium Pulse (C) AR 24 36 (3.6-C) 12.00 2 Naval AC 35 Aft 240 700 (70-C) 8,000.00 4 Naval Laser 55 Aft 340 220 (22-C) 4,400.00 4 Naval Laser 55 Aft 340 220 (22-C) 4,400.00 4 AC 5 LB-X (C) Aft 4 12 (1.2-C) 28.00 4 Laser Large ER (C) Aft 48 40 (4-C) 16.00 8 Laser Medium Pulse (C) Aft 32 48 (4.8-C) 16.00 2 AC 20 Ultra (C) Aft 28 60 (6-C) 24.00 Cargo Capacity - 88,000 tons Spare Parts - 19,888 tons Aerospace Group 50 x Aerospace Fighters 8 x Small Craft Ammunition Ammo Rounds Naval AC 35 Ammo 540 Naval AC 30 Ammo 1620 Capital Launcher Barracuda Ammo 80 Capital Launcher White Shark Ammo 80 AC 5 LB-X (C) Ammo 2880 AC 10 Ultra (C) Ammo 480 AC 20 Ultra (C) Ammo 200 Gauss Rifle (C) Ammo 512

As always, thoughts are most welcome. Sorry about the formatting, dunno why its come out so janky compared to what it is on notepad :s
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Takiro on September 23, 2018, 06:43:44 PM: Put this together today based on talks with Bradshaw yesterday which were backed up by extensive research. Still working on it and would love comments.

Premise the Clans all love self-sufficiency so field and maintain only what they can. This is backed by Snow Raven who monopolizes the warship system and provides assistance where need ($). So every Clan has at least one naval hub, how good it is we can debate. Thoughts??

Clan Naval Facilities

Blood Spirit
Shipyards: 1? (name unknown), York (best guest if any)
Status: Minor docks (if any) dedicated to maintenance, possible Raven assistance likely
Capacity: Full (although naval expansion maybe possible)
Cached Fleet: Unlikely (traded to Ravens)
Canon Citations: FM Crusader Clans
Notes: Fleet minimalists the Spirits traded most of their navy away to the Ravens for greater ground support

Burrock
Shipyards: 1, Cheops Shipyards, Albion
Status: Moderate docks (if any) dedicated to maintenance
Capacity: Full (although naval expansion possible, Star Adder disappointment at damage)
Cached Fleet: Possible (see Wars of Reaving)
Canon Citations: FM Crusader Clans (Blood Spirit and Star Adder) and Wars of Reaving
Notes: Average sized Clan fleet with expansion possible.

Cloud Cobra
Shipyards: 1? (name unknown), Homer (best guest based on available info)
Status: Major docks (if any) dedicated to maintenance
Capacity: Full (although naval expansion maybe possible, a lot of unknowns here)
Cached Fleet: Possible (have to review Wars of Reaving)
Canon Citations: possibly in Wars of Reaving but a large amount of this is education guess work
Notes: Average sized Clan fleet with expansion possible again a lot of guessing here

Coyote
Shipyards: 2 / (name unknown), Tamaron (cited in Wars of Reaving as demolished by Vipers)
      Candra Orbital Dock, New Kent (pg 54 FM Warden Clans)
Status: Tamaron, moderate dockyards dedicated to maintenance
   New Kent, small orbital yard, one of the Clanâ€™s only sources for new Dropships
Capacity: 4/5s (current naval expansion, new York being built)
Cached Fleet: Possible (have to review Wars of Reaving)
Canon Citations: FM Warden Clans and Wars of Reaving
Notes: Slightly undersized fleet with current expansion underway

Diamond Shark
Shipyards: 1, Babylon L-5 Yards, Babylon
Status: Major docks refitted by the Ravens, builds the Sassanid Dropship
Capacity: Full (naval expansion maybe possible)
Cached Fleet: Possible (see Wars of Reaving)
Canon Citations: TRO 3057, FM Warden Clans, and Wars of Reaving
Notes: Large warship fleet dedicated to commerce

Fire Mandrill
Shipyards: 1? (name unknown), Shadow (best guest based on available info)
Status: Minor docks (if any) dedicated to maintenance, possible Raven assistance likely
Capacity: Full (naval expansion maybe possible but with the Kindraa split doubtful)
Cached Fleet: Possible but unlikely (see Wars of Reaving)
Canon Citations: FM Crusader Clans and Wars of Reaving
Notes: Second smallest Clan fleet

Ghost Bear
Shipyards: 1? (name unknown), Bearclaw (moved to Alshain)
Status: Major docks probably outfitted with Raven assistance thanks to close ties
Capacity: 5/6 or 3/4 (naval expansion underway with Leviathans)
Cached Fleet: Possible but unlikely (see Wars of Reaving)
Canon Citations: FM Warden Clans and Wars of Reaving
Notes: Average size Clan fleet currently expanding with the Leviathan Warships

Goliath Scorpion
Shipyards: 1? (name unknown), Roche (perhaps the old Widowmaker yards)
Status: Major docks that are perhaps old but capable of maintaining such a large fleet
Capacity: Full (already a large navy in a resource poor Clan I doubt expansion is possible)
Cached Fleet: Possible (see Wars of Reaving)
Canon Citations: FM Warden Clans and Wars of Reaving
Notes: Large Clan fleet possibly linked to their fascination with the past

Hellâ€™s Horses
Shipyards: 1, (name unknown), Niles (in Wars of Reaving under the Stone Lions)
Status: Minor docks dedicated to maintenance
Capacity: Full (already a large navy in a resource poor Clan I doubt expansion is possible)
Cached Fleet: Possible, unlikely (see Wars of Reaving)
Canon Citations: FM Crusader Clans and Wars of Reaving
Notes: Third smallest Clan fleet, transport and ground oriented

Ice Hellion
Shipyards: 1? (name unknown), Hector (FM Crusader Clans says industry here but guess)
Status: Moderate dockyards dedicated to maintenance
Capacity: Full (no mention of stressed maintenance, guessing based on info available)
Cached Fleet: Possible (see Wars of Reaving)
Canon Citations: FM Crusader Clans and Wars of Reaving
Notes: Average size Clan fleet

Jade Falcon
Shipyards: 1? (name unknown), Ironhold (guessing based on available info)
Status: Major docks, dedicated to maintenance, possibly built the Peregrine
Capacity: Full (guessing based on info available)
Cached Fleet: Unlikely given their fleet strength but possible (see Wars of Reaving)
Canon Citations: FM Crusader Clans and Wars of Reaving
Notes: Tied with the Jaguars for second largest warship fleet, likely activated all vessels possible for the invasion

Nova Cat
Shipyards: 1? (name unknown), Barcella (guessing based on available info)
Status: Major docks, dedicated to maintenance, possibly built Carracks
Capacity: Full (guessing based on info available)
Cached Fleet: Unlikely given their fleet strength but possible (see Wars of Reaving)
Canon Citations: Invading Clans and FM ComStar
Notes: Fourth largest fleet but has no major warships (one million tons or more)

Smoke Jaguar
Shipyards: 2, Huntress, dropship construction with Miraborg
      Kirin, later dropship construction with Outpost
Status: Major docks, dedicated to maintenance with dropship construction
      Minor docks, dedicated to maintenance with dropship construction
Capacity: Full (guessing based on info available)
Cached Fleet: Unlikely given their fleet strength but possible (see Wars of Reaving)
Canon Citations: Invading Clans and FM Updates
Notes: Tied for second largest fleet with the Jade Falcons

Snow Raven
Shipyards: 1, (name unknown) Lum
Status: Mega docks, easily largest in Clan space capable of maintenance and construction
Capacity: ? (the Ravens have a stranglehold on the warship industry effectively monopolizing it)
Cached Fleet: ? (very possible, likely the Clan has activated the best stuff for the invasion)
Canon Citations: FM Warden Clans
Notes: The largest fleet of the Clans but one unable to match the next two Clans (in fact any combination of Jade Falcon, Smoke Jaguar, Nova Cat, Wolf is greater then their fleet) which is their aim. Expansion could very well be in order to overcome this deficit.

Star Adder
Shipyards: 1, (name unknown) Priori (cited in Wars of Reaving)
Status: Moderate docks, maintenance work only
Capacity: Overfull (stressed with the amount of work)
Cached Fleet: Yes (stated several times that the Adders have more ships but canâ€™t field them)
Canon Citations: FM Crusader Clans and Wars of Reaving
Notes: Average size Clan fleet with more vessels in reserve, has to rely on Snow Raven for support

Steel Viper
Shipyards: 2, New Kent (cited in Wars of Reaving, expanded later)
Marshall (cited in TRO3057)
Status: Moderate docks, maintenance based
   Minor docks, dropship construction (Broadsword & Noruff) and maintenance
Capacity: Full (known ships in service and in reserve)
Cached Fleet: Yes (the Vipers pull ships out of mothballs in Wars of Reaving)
Canon Citations: TRO3057 and Wars of Reaving
Notes:

Wolf
Shipyards: 1?, Eden (best guess based on info, likely old yards from original Pentagon)
Status: Major docks
Capacity: Full (cited in Wars of Reaving that the Wolves challenged Vipers for maintenance)
Cached Fleet: Possible (Wolverine Annihilation and Widowmaker Absorption could have added to their assets but the Wolf Dragoons took ships with them)
Canon Citations: Operation Klondike and Wars of Reaving
Notes:

Free Guilds
Shipyards: 1, Strana Mechty
Status: Major docks (Overlord C and Union C) and 5 boneyards
Capacity: Unknown
Cached Fleet: Yes
Canon Citations: Operation Klondike, Betrayal of Ideals, Wars of Reaving
Notes:
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 23, 2018, 08:03:18 PM: Compared Nova Cat fleet of your list with FM update to see what they had then thinking if they had a reserve theyd bring it with them found Lola iii Growler, Ranger and Hunter believed to be the three acquired in 2990 from the trade with Star Adders
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 23, 2018, 08:39:56 PM: This the space station i was trying to remember in our discussion yesterday as well Tak
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Outpost_One
(http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Outpost_One)
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: marauder648 on September 24, 2018, 02:30:50 AM: Excellent research folks! Also any thoughts on the Tsunami? She's obviously not for Quicksilver stuff but the discussion did get me thinking :D
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 24, 2018, 06:21:30 AM: We both saw the post Saturday while bullshiting about other stuff saying it looked good and was good fluff. Especially liked the new name. Fits perfectly
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Takiro on September 24, 2018, 06:31:43 AM: Quote from: Bradshaw on September 23, 2018, 08:03:18 PM
Compared Nova Cat fleet of your list with FM update to see what they had then thinking if they had a reserve theyd bring it with them found Lola iii Growler, Ranger and Hunter believed to be the three acquired in 2990 from the trade with Star Adders

I think you'll find the other Carracks they had out there as well. I don't recall the Star Adder trade, do you have a book and page citation?

Quote from: Bradshaw on September 23, 2018, 08:39:56 PM
This the space station i was trying to remember in our discussion yesterday as well Tak
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Outpost_One
(http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Outpost_One)

Good pull on that one Bradshaw. It sounds like it could be either a Free Guilds station (implying the Clans added to it - perhaps a collective statement) or the Snow Ravens IMO. Also presents a challenge to my Free Guild theory as it states that "it is the largest spacestation in Clan space".

Quote from: marauder648 on September 24, 2018, 02:30:50 AM
Excellent research folks! Also any thoughts on the Tsunami? She's obviously not for Quicksilver stuff but the discussion did get me thinking :D

Thanks marauder, love to hear some comments on it all. Still have to add to the final product and some of the Clans.

I am trying not to comment on all the designs posted again to avoid pre-judging any competition which is the reason I didn't respond initially. Tis a fine ship like all you designers usually do. It is possible that the Clans could have and refit a Monsoon but much like the Du Shi Wang and some other rare ship classes but why would they? Here is my grip. These one and done classes while neat add to your logistical needs. I know it is BattleTech but when you have the Nightlord why?
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 24, 2018, 07:12:29 AM: Quote from: Bradshaw link=topic=3663.msg45867#msg45867

Interesting little bit while reading the Carrack in detail in 3057R

Quote
In an unusual move, the Nova Cats, in 2990, traded three merchant ships with their bays full of supplies to the Star Adders in exchange for three Lola III-class destroyers.

Was back here where i first found the trade
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: marauder648 on September 24, 2018, 07:20:40 AM: They didn't refit it because she's come on for 630 years old (ish) in 3000 and hadn't been maintained, so they just said she's a museium/memorial to the Star League etc and built a ship that was inspired by the Monsoon class.

Headcanon time. The Nightlord isn't a Battleship. She's basically a LSD (Landing Ship Dock not drugs), that is heavily armed and self escorting. Her job is not to go up to a hostile battle line and do this.

(https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/861739000205327172/D6FB8D7F4F75DCC8371393B35941C887761AA538/?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-format=jpeg&output-quality=95&fit=inside%7C268%3A268&composite-to=*,*%7C268%3A268&background-color=black)

Before biffing them with heavy caliber autocannons and other fun weapons. Her (the Nightlord's) job is to punch through any defences and then throw 100 Mech's and 500 Elementals at a planet almost going YEET! whilst doing so.

She's built to shove aside anything in her path and weaken them for the escorting ships and fighters to finish off. But, put a Nightlord in an actual battle and she's at quite a disadvantage due to her weapons being all over the bloody shop and not actually mounting much in the way of overall firepower, having to give up a lot to carry her Mech's and her Elemental horde (which have NO shuttles :s ).

So the Nightlord is very good at assaulting someone's world, but this kind of direct capability, the capacity to put down a Galaxy of Mech's and a Galaxy of Elementals down on a world would never ever be used at the time she was made (mid 2932 onwards.) Because the Clans were huge fans of Zell at this time, and even if they went at the Inner Sphere, they'd not use WarShips in such a brutally direct curb stomping fashion unless they went in going "They are bandits, and are Dezgra" so this massive troop capacity on the Nightlord is somewhat questionable knowing what we know about the Clans at the time.

And if a Nightlord was carrying a full compliment of Mech's and Elementals its not something the Clan who has her can risk, especially as they knew little about the IS at the time and the Spheroids could well have been building WarShips a plenty. So the Nightlord needs escorts, or something that can help her reach her target world. So step forwards something like the Tsunami. Its smaller than other Battleships in Clan service and more modern than all but the Nightlord and presumably capable of kicking anything that opposes it to death in short order.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 24, 2018, 08:44:36 AM: Thing that doesn't make sense to me is why did the Clans take the Riga destroyer and turn into a Carrier renamed York when they had Samarkands and could have refitted and renamed and produced them.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Takiro on September 24, 2018, 08:56:59 AM: Wrong Riga bro
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 24, 2018, 08:58:38 AM: Yea was the destroyer I forgot before I typed that but still doesn't make sense. Samarkand could carry double the fighters.

Anyway finally found a FM Periphery 2765 to mine

Quote
one of the most numerous and modern destroyers in the Exodus fleet, the Riga II served as the primary patrol unit. Upon reaching the Pentagon worlds, most Riga IIs were kept in service rather than being mothballed. This put them at the center of the action after Nicholas Kerensky left the Pentagon worlds in December of 2801 resulting in the destruction of most Riga IIs during the civil wars that followed. The two surviving Pentagon Riga IIs would be destroyed during Operation Klondike. The six remaining Riga IIs would serve the Clans for another hundred years before a series of major refits reworked all six into the modern York-class.

pg 33

I'm guessing this is the large number of ships lost at Dagda.

Quote
Over the course of the campaign, half of the Star Leagueâ€™s remaining Riga IIs were lostâ€”compared to the ninety percent loss rate suffered by Lola IIIs and Essex IIs. After the campaign,four surviving (but badly damaged) Riga IIs were stripped and scuttled, while the remaining twenty-two left with General Kerensky and his Exodus fleet, lost to history.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: marauder648 on September 24, 2018, 09:33:03 AM: The Nightlord is a victim of lore and fluff. She also is very much a jack of all trades and very very much a master of none because of it, she's a good assault ship, an adequate cruiser killer and a poor carrier, the only thing she does well is yeet Mech's at planets. Lore wise we've got the Lore pretty much saying that save a few Clans (literally 2) the Clans themselves don't actually value WarShips and see them as ill wanted solhama for the most part. And then you look at those lists of ships available and go "If they didn't want them why do some Clans have 20+ ships?"

And why would the Clans keep ships that are 600+ years old (Aegis class) around when parts for them are going to have to be near impossible to get without setting up a factory SPECIFICALLY for these ships? Basically its like the silly idea of going "Why not reactivate the Iowas?"

You would have to build EVERYTHING on her from scratch. We don't make armour like that so you'd have to make armour forging for it, the gun pits for 16-inch 50cal rifles are probably long gone, and there's no place in the world that builds those kinds of engines any more, so you'd have to rebuild those.

or spend billions basically rebuilding her and then its not worth doing.

And the Clans are not going to spend the resources needed to bring the Aegis up to modern standards and their hulls would be deteriorating and no matter how good their tech, they can't stop entropy and they can't stop metal fatigue that would probably have meant that the Aegis class would have been scrapped prior to the Amaris Civil War (at which point the oldest Aegis would have been 394 year old at the outbreak) and a replacement made. And yes I know that basically McKenna's made a lot of ships obsolete, but the SLDF also built the Luxor and Riga II to escort them and these three classes were probably a forerunner to a next generation of SLDF ships that would see a new Destroyer built etc.

So instead of keeping ancient warhorses around where you have to hand build every damn replacement part, why didn't the Clans build new ships as this would actually be cheaper than maintaining some truly ancient ships that would be as reliable electroincailly as 1970's italian sports cars that you see for sale in news papers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuCff8nCxBU

So building new ships to replace the old, recycling them makes sense in terms of pure logistics, and thanks to advances in electronics and the like you'd probably reduce maintenance, crew manning levels etc. But this is Battletech and its not the 1st time the Lore don't make any bloody sense when it comes to the Clans beyond THEIR WHOLE SOCIETY WOULD COLLAPSE! IT MAKES NO BLOODY SENSE!

Of course if the Clans had half a brain they'd use the Creche system and Iron Wombs to pump out people at a huge rate, sending off jumpships to explore, colonize, exploit every damn planet and system in reach. Its got a violently flaring red dwarf with useless planets but rich asteroids, orbital habitats HO! colonise the habital worlds they found on the Exodus trail, fortify them, use asteroid mining etc and build up to defend yourselves and have the room to grow instead of squabbling over the hardscrabble worlds of the Pentagon and Kerensky cluster.

But I digress. We know the Clans can build new WarShips, the only thing stopping them was very inconsistent lore.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 24, 2018, 09:45:10 AM: (https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/creepypasta/images/3/3b/Hear_hear.jpeg/revision/latest?cb=20130919070849)

I'm all for some of the richer clans melting down of some of their ships and recommissioning new ones. Possibly same names but probably new. But I don't see them making many of the larger ones 1 million +. 1. You got a lack of facilities that can build them. 2. the Resources needed for them is huge. 3. They need to establish their own doctrine. The SLDF one that I published a few posts up doesn't work for the Clans. They don't have the sheer numbers of warships and dropships that the SLDF had to have such specialist roles. Much more of a multitask role I think they need to embrace.

In regards to the people solution. I could have seen the Clans utilizing Cloning as well. With all the marvels of biological doom unleashed by the Society it should have been a simple thing for them to work out.

What is a Terraforming ship?

Quote
TERROR-FORMING
*** Emergency HPG logging begun. Encryption 710P-8A4-NNA. Code Aqua***

â€œThis Doctor Emerett Bohr, DoME project leader, aboard the terraforming vessel Alfred Wegner! Project PISCES UMBRELLA is under attack! Multiple hyperspace exits were detected two hours ago at the L1 stable point. At first, we thought it was the resupply run, but the IR spikes were too numerous and large. How could they know we were here? They have ignored all attempts at communications, and there is no IFF signal or visual markings on the hulls. They have already begun deorbiting the project framework, and our satellites showed DropShips landing at our planet-side storehouses before we lost their signal.

â€œWe are burning at maximum acceleration towards the closest stable point to engage the K-F drive. Captain Halabi says a hostile Pinto will overtake us before then. Please send a combat WarShip as soon as possible to coordinates 241 mark 003, distance 18,475â€¦.â€

â€”Blackbox recording of the last HPG transmission of the Department of Mega Engineering terraforming vessel Alfred Wegner, found in wreckage drifting in Project PISCES UMBRELLA target system, 2 April 2765.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Abele on September 24, 2018, 10:18:10 AM: Quote from: Bradshaw on September 24, 2018, 08:44:36 AM
Thing that doesn't make sense to me is why did the Clans take the Riga destroyer and turn into a Carrier renamed York when they had Samarkands and could have refitted and renamed and produced them.
Simple answer is that the Samarkand didn't exist IRL when 3057R was written.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 24, 2018, 10:19:53 AM: Quote from: Abele on September 24, 2018, 10:18:10 AM
Quote from: Bradshaw on September 24, 2018, 08:44:36 AM
Thing that doesn't make sense to me is why did the Clans take the Riga destroyer and turn into a Carrier renamed York when they had Samarkands and could have refitted and renamed and produced them.
Simple answer is that the Samarkand didn't exist IRL when 3057R was written.

Haha stop making sense this is Battletech after all
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: marauder648 on September 24, 2018, 10:35:23 AM: Oh I agree, Battleships would be rare, they'd probably hold onto their SLDF era BB's because as you said these puppies are a HUGE investment in resources, so yeah the few Texas and Mckenna's would be kept around. But the oldest ships, scrap them replace them with a new cruiser analogue as well as destroyers etc.

This is, as you said, because the Clans HAVE to establish a new doctrine. SLDF ships are built for en-mass deployment, its not the one Lola III you need to worry about. Its her 7 other squadron mates, and the Sov Soy leading them that you have to worry about. The Clans simply can't (or mentally wont) do that as they don't have the forces to deploy ships on mass and outside of the Ravens, if we're honest, they don't have the training for such deployments and in the naval battles we've seen the Clans get involved in, they seem to basically be massed one on one brawls for the most part.

So in light of this, producing their own designs that don't have the monstrous cargo requirements mot SLDF ships had (with you being able to fit the weight of the worlds largest passenger ship in the Sov soy's cargo bay being a prime example of this lunacy) so they have a shorter range (but up the fuel tanks from the notoriously short legged SLDF ships) and are more flexible and sturdy, able to operate alone and defend themselves against threats large and small, it makes so much more sense.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 24, 2018, 10:47:40 AM: Quote from: marauder648 on September 24, 2018, 10:35:23 AM
So in light of this, producing their own designs that don't have the monstrous cargo requirements mot SLDF ships had (with you being able to fit the weight of the worlds largest passenger ship in the Sov soy's cargo bay being a prime example of this lunacy) so they have a shorter range (but up the fuel tanks from the notoriously short legged SLDF ships) and are more flexible and sturdy, able to operate alone and defend themselves against threats large and small, it makes so much more sense.

Id say a 10% saved towards cargo would be satisfactory for any Warship. So a Samarkand sized 350k vessel would have 35,000 but a McKenna sized one would have 193000
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: marauder648 on September 24, 2018, 10:50:58 AM: Sounds fine to me :) Thats 80,745 tons for a McKenna
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 24, 2018, 11:11:04 AM: Id think an ideal Naval Star for a Clan would be

Corvette/Destroyer
Destroyer/Frigate
Light Cruiser/Carrier
Heavy Cruiser
Battleship

/ isn't for one or the other but to designate hybrids
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: marauder648 on September 24, 2018, 12:07:44 PM: Depends on the role but I see the Clans as being somewhat Cruiser heavy. Larger multi-role ships capable of independent action and decent patrols as well as carrying enough droppers to make a target regret them coming.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 24, 2018, 12:40:35 PM: Yea it would make sense as Cruiser weights are the most versatile

In regards to Comstar Fleet I was able to narrow down who was and wasn't around at time of Exodus

Definitely part of the 12
CSV Invisible Truth - Cameron-Class
CSV Harmonious Thought Sovetskii Soyuz class

Likely
CSV Strength Through Adversity - Lola III-class
CSV Leander Lola-class
CSV Ranger - Lola III-class
CSV Hammerstrike - Essex-class
CSV Deathblow - Essex-class
CSV Brandenburg Crusader - Essex-class
CSV Defender of Versailles - Essex-class
CSV Emerald Essex class
CSV Starlight Essex class
CSV Resilience - Vincent-class
CSV Determination - Vincent-class
CSV Alacrity - Vincent-class

Unlikely
CSV Divine Wisdom - Lola III-class
CSV Holy Martyrdom - Lola III-class
CSV Blake's Vision - Lola III-class
CSV Blake's Strength - Black Lion-class
CSV Avenging Sword - Aegis-class
CSV Righteous Fury - Aegis-class
CSV Swift Justice - Aegis-class
CSV Enlightened Path - Volga-class
CSV Cleansing Fire - Congress-class
CSV Blake's Vengeance - Sovetskii Soyuz-class

Definitely Nots
CSV Anastasius Focht - Suffren-class
CSV Manchester - Suffren-class
CSV Hollings York - Congress-class
CSV Vision of Truth - Potemkin-class
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 24, 2018, 02:03:23 PM: Consolidated Findings

Lost Ship   Class   Name/Source   Clan
Quote
Riga II   Destroyer   Fluff 22 left Exodus   ---
Riga II   Destroyer   Fluff 22 left Exodus   ---
Riga II   Destroyer   Fluff 22 left Exodus   ---
Riga II   Destroyer   Fluff 22 left Exodus   ---
Riga II   Destroyer   Fluff 22 left Exodus   ---
Riga II   Destroyer   Fluff 22 left Exodus   ---
Riga II   Destroyer   Fluff 22 left Exodus   ---
Riga II   Destroyer   Fluff 22 left Exodus   ---
Riga II   Destroyer   Fluff 22 left Exodus   ---
Riga II   Destroyer   Fluff 22 left Exodus   ---
Riga II   Destroyer   Fluff 22 left Exodus   ---
Riga II   Destroyer   Fluff 22 left Exodus   ---
Riga II   Destroyer   Fluff 22 left Exodus   ---
Riga II   Destroyer   Fluff 22 left Exodus   ---
Riga II   Destroyer   Fluff 22 left Exodus   ---
Unknown   Unknown   Mustang   Hell's Horses
Unknown   Unknown   Hunter's Pride   Jade Falcon
Riga II   Destroyer   Admiral Schone   Pentagon Power
Potemkin   Transport   Egg Sac   Widowmaker
Black Lion   Battlecruiser   Michigan   Wolverine
Vincent   Corvette   Badger   Wolverine
Whirlwind   Destroyer   Weasel   Wolverine
Unknown   Unknown   Rickenbacker   Wolverine
Unknown   Destroyer   Yukon   Wolverine
Unknown   Unknown   Klondike/Eden   Pentagon Power
Unknown   Unknown   Klondike/Eden   Pentagon Power
Unknown   Unknown   Klondike/Eden   Pentagon Power
Unknown   Unknown   Klondike/Eden   Pentagon Power
Congress   Frigate   Klondike/Circe   Pentagon Power

Cache Ship   Class   Name   Clan
Quote
Mako   Corvette   Fuchida   Bandit/Society
Samarkand    Carrier   Beijing   Cloud Cobra
Essex   Destroyer   Marseilles   Diamond Shark/Babylon
Unknown   > Destroyer   Unknown   Diamond Shark/Babylon
Samarkand   Carrier   Deal Breaker   Diamond Shark/Vinton
Unknown   Unknown   Unknown   Diamond Shark/Vinton
Unknown   Unknown   Unknown   Diamond Shark/Vinton
Unknown   Unknown   Unknown   Mongoose/System 671-H
Unknown   Unknown   Unknown   Mongoose/System 671-H
Unknown   Unknown   Unknown   Mongoose/System 671-H
Lola III   Destroyer   Growler   Nova Cat
Lola III   Destroyer   Ranger   Nova Cat
Lola III   Destroyer   Hunter   Nova Cat
Du Shi Wang   Battleship   Quicksilver Mongoose   Smoke Jaguar/Strana Mechty
Baron   Destroyer   Unknown   Star Adder/MKSC-2
Kimagure   Cruiser   Admiral Russell Nga   Star Adder/MKSC-2
Riga   Frigate   Hetherington   Star Adder/MKSC-2
Samarkand    Carrier   Yorktown   Star Adder/MKSC-2
Unknown   Unknown   Unknown   Star Adder/MKSC-2
Unknown   Unknown   Unknown   Star Adder/MKSC-2
Unknown   Unknown   Unknown   Star Adder/MKSC-2
Unknown   Unknown   Unknown   Star Adder/MKSC-2
Aegis   Heavy Crusier   Silver Snake   Steel Viper
Aegis   Heavy Crusier   General Stuart   Strana Mechty
Mako   Corvette   Stone Crab   Unknown/Burrock
Mako   Corvette   Ingrid Bucharev   Unknown/Burrock

Missing/Left Clans   Class   Name   Clan
Quote
Quixote   Frigate   Unknown   Pentagon Power
Lola III   Destroyer   Black Venom   Widowmaker
Cameron   Battlecruiser   Admiral Gerda Cameron   Snow Raven
Texas   Battleship   Perth   Star Adder
Vincent    Corvette   Mars   Wolf Dragoons
Sovetskii Soyuz   Heavy Cruiser   Athena   Wolf Dragoons
Congress   Frigate   Beowulf   Wolf Dragoons
Aegis   Heavy Cruiser   Alexander   Wolf Dragoons
Lola III   Destroyer   Darius   Wolf Dragoons
Lola III   Destroyer   Nelson   Wolf Dragoons
Texas   Battleship   Bismark   Wolverine
McKenna   Battleship   Zughoffer Weir   Wolverine
Unknown   Cruiser   Buccaneer   Wolverine
Unknown   Unknown   Rough Rider   Wolf
Unknown   Transport   Maverick   Wolverine
Cameron   Battlecruiser   Munich   Snow Raven
Unknown   Transport   Rawhide   Wolverine
Carrack   Transport   Saratoga   Wolverine

A pretty version is attached as a PDF
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 24, 2018, 02:14:19 PM: So Takiros list of Warship way earlier in the post. Removing again unknown Carracks and definitely built Clan Warship we have

Class   Grand Total
Aegis   36
Black Lion   11
Cameron   12
Congress   13
Essex   14
Liberator   6
Lola III   34
McKenna   7
Potemkin   29
Sovetskii Soyuz   15
Texas   6
Vincent   22
Volga   10
Whirlwind   8
York   6
Grand Total   229

Now we have found ships

Class   Amount
Aegis   3
Baron   1
Black Lion   1
Cameron   2
Carrack   1
Congress   2
Du Shi Wang   1
Essex   1
Kimagure   1
Lola III   6
Mako   3
McKenna   1
Potemkin   1
Quixote   1
Riga   1
Riga II   16
Samarkand   3
Sovetskii Soyuz   1
Texas   2
Unknown   22
Vincent   2
Whirlwind   1
Grand Total   73

Gives 302 Ships we are still missing 100 ships jeez.

Quote
All had been victims of a massive naval engagement that had consumed scores of WarShips and DropShips

20ish for Smoke Jaguar & Mongoose War

Now we are down to 80ish

So if we think this means scores of both dropships and warships.

This could be them all but I'm thinking there were others lost in little battles between the Clans since. Like Star Adders/Mongoose war Snow Ravens/Coyotes etc..
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Ice Hellion on September 24, 2018, 03:04:55 PM: Quote from: Bradshaw on September 24, 2018, 11:11:04 AM
Id think an ideal Naval Star for a Clan would be

Corvette/Destroyer
Destroyer/Frigate
Light Cruiser/Carrier
Heavy Cruiser
Battleship

/ isn't for one or the other but to designate hybrids

Why?
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 24, 2018, 03:29:08 PM: Figured that would make a versatile Star of Warships.

If you did as Canon Ships would something like this

Vincent Mk 42
York
Congress
Sovetskii Soyuz
McKenna

Stay away from Corvettes as they are cannon fodder for the most part and Battleships because they are a resource hog. I'd possibly remove the Battleship for another Cruiser just for that reason.

If you did like Marauder says and more Cruiser based could be like this

Heavy Cruiser
Battlecruiser
Light Cruiser
Frigate/Carrier
Frigate

Canon Attempt would be
Sovetskii Soyuz
Aegis
Cameron
Black Lion
Congress
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 24, 2018, 03:47:23 PM: I wonder how Warships were originally distributed before and after Klondike. Because as we know 100 were lost during the Civil War and Klondike. Giving us 302. 20 Clans x 15 Warships a piece = 300. Prinz Eugen is the Prison Ship and McKenna's Pride as Clan Flagship. We have exactly the 302.

But we also know there were 10 different Mothballed Fleets spread around after Klondike. If you think 10 a piece in mothball. 10 a piece Clan you again get the 300 and 2 known not used.

Or do you think certain clans had an extra interest or disinterest in having some since their founding so someone like Horses may never had many while Snow Ravens always had a lot.

I lean towards option 3 because counting up the Wolverine Warships is equal to 10 but some of them it specifically mentions they took from the Clan Naval Caches.

Reading the Betrayal novel and Klondike makes it seem like each Clan had probably around 5 at their founding and they grew from there.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: marauder648 on September 24, 2018, 03:48:44 PM: Just one fix, on Sarna there's 17 Yorks, the Clans built more or converted any Riga II they found into the York standard.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 24, 2018, 03:51:49 PM: 6 Yorks were converted Riga Destroyers the remaining ones were built afterwards.

Quote
An astounding 26 Riga-class vessels survived the ensuing war, a testament to the capabilities of the new design. With the exception of four badly damaged craft, all of these left in the Exodus fleet. These compact and sophisticated vessels formed the largest single contingent in the fleet and subsequently became the primary patrol vessels of the Exodus fleet. The war that erupted between the remnants of the SLDF in the early 29th century claimed many of these vessels, however; only six of the Rigas that had accompanied Nicholas Kerensky to Strana Mechty survived. These surviving vessels served for more than 100 years. When new, post-Exodus designs began to gain the upper hand, the Rigas underwent extensive refits, in effect becoming a new class of WarShip. This new class, known as the York, began to operate in 2947 and enabled Clan Star Adder to defeat Clan Nova Cat in a trial for the BattleMech factory on Brim.

3057R Fluff for York
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 24, 2018, 07:06:20 PM: I didn't know that the two Conquerors being built by Snow Ravens are two of the 5 Kimagures that joined the exodus so theres another two for the list
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Takiro on September 24, 2018, 08:41:54 PM: Lot of great talk today gang.

Quote from: Bradshaw on September 24, 2018, 07:06:20 PM
I didn't know that the two Conquerors being built by Snow Ravens are two of the 5 Kimagures that joined the exodus so theres another two for the list

Yup the Conqueror upgrade from the Kimagure was done to escort the Leviathans originally.

I wanted to post a total list of Clan Warships 3052 which I just finished compiling, hope it matches Bradshaw!

Total Number 3052 (288 warships, 4 under construction)
- Leviathan class Battleships: [Leviathan, Great Bear - both under construction]
2 Newgrange class Yardships: Star Forge, Void Haven
7 McKenna class Battleship: Second Coming, Lei Kung, Cageâ€™s Pride, James McKenna, Sovereign Right, Werewolf, McKennaâ€™s Pride
6 Texas class Battleship: Falconâ€™s Nest, Veiled Huntress, Mountbatton, Nicholas Kerensky, Prinz Eugen, Ancestral Home*
29 Potemkin class Troop Cruiser: Renown, Wisdom of Ages, True Sight, Midnight Star, Morning Star, Poseidon, Titanic, Tsunami, Red Tide, Kraken, Jungle Heat, Enceladus, Karttikeya, Epimetheus, Prometheus, Steel Shield, Armageddon, Blood Horse, Coterie, Osisâ€™ Pride, Wild Swan, Snow Flake, Bonaventure, Eden Rose, Rock, Treachery, Ophidian, Serpentes, Full Moon
8 Nightlord class Battleship: Absolute Truth, Great Coyote Spirit, Terror of the Deep, Ursa Major, Atropos, Emerald Talon, Snow Raven, Dark Asp
11 Black Lion class Battlecruiser: Rocinante, Bear's Den, Jade Aerie, White Aerie, Blue Aerie, Thunderbolt, Streaking Mist, Admiral William S. Preston, Implacable, Stealthy Kill, Blood Brinker
12 Cameron class Battlecruiser: Incense, Blood of the Coyote, Dieron's Run, Hephaestus, Sleipnir, Turkinaâ€™s Pride, Blizzard, Kerenskyâ€™s Hope, Ice Storm, Zalmanâ€™s Endeavor, Mother Jocasta, Bloody Fang
6 Liberator class Heavy Cruiser: Constantineau, Spirit in the Sky, Gauntlet, Korat, Jerome Winson, Victoria Ward
15 Sovetskii Soyuz class Heavy Cruiser: Carmine Justice, Divine Conquest, Steel Fang, Howling, Nagasawa, Reaver, Serket, Hawker, Pouncing Fury, White Cloud, Storm Crow, Avalanche, Nygaard, Sanra Mercer, Dire Wolf
1 Conqueror class Battlecruiser: Conqueror [Ark Royal - under construction]
10 Volga class Transports: Bold Venture, Speculator, Ursine Boatman, Andromeda, Mount Olympus, Scavenger, Tenacity, Cho Polu, Pompeii, Provider
36 Aegis class Heavy Cruiser: Exsanguine, Aresâ€™s Might, Consequence, Inquisitor, Bloodlust, Corona Borealis, Corona Austrina, Taney, Chaos Sailor, Jade Talon, Janice Hazen, Frost Falcon, Gold Talon, Red Talon, White Talon, Black Talon, Blue Talon, Hawk Eye, Blood Oath, Bond, Promise, Blade, Path of Honor, Vision Quest, Principle, Chronicle, Rememberance, Black Justice, Blue Lancer, Blue Quest, Lord Death, Morning Violence, Scabbard, White Terror, Stellar Serpent, Steel Python
13 Congress class Frigate: Shining Claw, Bernlad, Garlon, Bucephalus, Green Lantern, Kerenskyâ€™s Pride, True Vision, FireCrest, Hunterâ€™s Pride, Snow Leopard, Magpie, Snake Leader, Rogue
34 Lola III class Destroyer: Blood Fury, Hagar, Yodan, Cataclysm, Courage, Honor of Ages, Predator, Space Hunter, Rancor, Rage, Anathema, Blizzard, Icepick, Sagitta, Auriga, Black Knight, Red Knight, Gold Knight, Cold Hunter, Impaler, Radiant, Faithful, Devout, Storm Cat, Griffin, Bloody Talon, Cold Hunter, Spur, Vision of Terra, Cameronâ€™s Flame, Warlock, Snake Pit, Anaconda, Natures Wrath
14 Essex class Destroyer: Tehuantepec, Windrunner, Sharon, Tracy, White Claw, White Fang, Orpheus, Mooreâ€™s Honor, Dark Claw, The Iowa, Sabre Cat, Eternity, Eagle, Martial Legacy
15 York class Destroyer/Carrier: Stooping Kite, Exodus Avenger, Exodus Crusader, Exodus Ranger, Exodus Sentinel, Brimstone, The Protector, Ursa Minor, Nebulous, Pack Leader, Anna Rosse, Lioness, Queen Lynx, Corvidae, Star Fire [Broken Sea - under construction]
8 Whirlwind class Destroyers: Fire Fang, Ursus, Emerald Tornado, Shadow Fang, William Adams, Drake, Constrictor, Snake in the Grass
22 Vincent Mk42 class Corvettes: Centaur, Pegasus, Tramp, Hertzogâ€™s Staff, Firetender, Lightning Strike, Rightous Return, Far Vision, Spirit Vision, Ripper, Azov, Simas Osis, Ghostwalker, Huninn, Muninn, Vritra, Naga, Coiled Serpent, Trailblazer, Relentless Pursuit, Valiant, Killing Blow
23 Carrack class Transport: Pedigree, Vitriolic, Blind Faith, Solar Blaze, Star Swimmer, Devourer, Bloodletter, Firehold, Den Mother, Yggdrasil, Collrane, Golden Clydesdale, Maker, Ironhold Provider, True Path, Perilous Vision, Void, Pusher, Nestling, Venture Star, Black Adder, Pride of New Kent, Night Warrior
16 Fredasa class Corvettes: Hell Fury, Perditionâ€™s Flame, Swift Strike, Black Ghost, Swift Bait, Hellionâ€™s Pride, Whelp, Verdant Stoop, Spirit Sight, Future Triumph, Ocelot, Jaguarundi, Black Beard, Vicious Fang, Arcadian Asp, Pit Viper
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Vition2 on September 24, 2018, 10:53:42 PM: A couple potential additional shipyards which may have been missed.

If the Tanite worlds exist in this timeline, Alexandra is said to have a small shipyard, thus another for the Burrocks.

Also another potential for clan Snow Raven: Crest Foundries. We know for sure that it builds ASF, but the new one at Quatre Belle is built around a mobile factory and is very likely smaller than the original at Lum, this suggests that dropships may have been built at the original.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Takiro on September 24, 2018, 11:21:51 PM: Quote from: Vition2 on September 24, 2018, 10:53:42 PM
A couple potential additional shipyards which may have been missed.

If the Tanite worlds exist in this timeline, Alexandra is said to have a small shipyard, thus another for the Burrocks.

Also another potential for clan Snow Raven: Crest Foundries. We know for sure that it builds ASF, but the new one at Quatre Belle is built around a mobile factory and is very likely smaller than the original at Lum, this suggests that dropships may have been built at the original.

Thanks Vintion2!

I did see reference to a shipyards in Tanite space in Wars of Reaving but wouldn't that be Cloud Cobras? I bet the Burrocks have access though.

Rumiko is a mystery we are trying to solve from Carrier Dropship. On sarna.net it is listed under Crest Foundries though. I'd love some more details on Lum.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Vition2 on September 25, 2018, 02:14:10 AM: Whoops, yep Cloud Cobras for Alexandra - I was misconstruing the Burrock association with the dark cast and the Tanite tendencies.

I believe it says "on the Rumiko region" suggesting ground-based ship-building on Lum. Unfortunately, probably not the shipyard requirements being looked for.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: marauder648 on September 25, 2018, 02:17:58 AM: Holy crap, you guys are doing amazing work with all this research :)
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Vition2 on September 25, 2018, 02:40:19 AM: I did have the quote wrong, it states "at Rumiko on Lum." The operative word there is "on" so my suspicion that it's actually on planet doesn't change.

Also Sarna's wrong or makes major assumptions with a lot of the factory produced items. Very little of the supporting equipment that is listed is actually stated as being built at the locations sarna indicates - though in some cases it is very nearly explicit based on the equipment's name. But as far as I'm aware nothing states that Crest Foundries at Quatre Belle makes either the carrier nor the arcadia (I actually think both of these are built on Ramora since they already had a dropship industry based there before the Ravens arrived).
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Takiro on September 25, 2018, 06:13:31 AM: Quote from: marauder648 on September 25, 2018, 02:17:58 AM
Holy crap, you guys are doing amazing work with all this research :)

It is nice to have a good foundation established before building your story.

Quote from: Vition2 on September 25, 2018, 02:40:19 AM
I did have the quote wrong, it states "at Rumiko on Lum." The operative word there is "on" so my suspicion that it's actually on planet doesn't change.

Also Sarna's wrong or makes major assumptions with a lot of the factory produced items. Very little of the supporting equipment that is listed is actually stated as being built at the locations sarna indicates - though in some cases it is very nearly explicit based on the equipment's name. But as far as I'm aware nothing states that Crest Foundries at Quatre Belle makes either the carrier nor the arcadia (I actually think both of these are built on Ramora since they already had a dropship industry based there before the Ravens arrived).

I was actually wondering how they determined that Crest and Rumiko were one in the same. They usually cite their assertions and on the whole do an excellent job with distilling BattleTech facts. Still their info on shipyards for dropships or warships is limited and you know what that makes me think I have not looked up Jumpship construction stuff. More research!
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 25, 2018, 08:48:18 AM: So perusing 3057R again just to see if theres any fluff I may have missed. And staring me right in the face is the preface to the Clans Warship Section.

Now the Remembrance told us 100 ships were lost in the Pentagon Civil War this has been stated repeatedly in many places. But I always assumed that meant including Klondike.

I was wrong.

Quote
Only a handful of the active vessels survived the brutal Exodus Civil Wars that followed, and a large number of vessels in the cache fleets met a similar fate, destroyed by one faction or the other during the first years of the bitter conflict. By the time Nicholas Kerenskyâ€™s forces liberated the Pentagon, only 260 Clan WarShips remained operational
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 25, 2018, 09:30:28 AM: Quote
The first Broadsword was launched from the Marshall yards in 2979.

Quote
Indeed, the first Sassanids were merely converted Intruders, but in 2875 the L-5 yards of the Pentagon Cluster's Babylon system began turning out the new design

Quote
The first Clan-style Union left the new shipyards above Strana Mechty in May of 2829

Quote
The first Clan-style Union left the new shipyards above Strana Mechty in May of 2829.

Quote
Clan Snow Raven designed the Carrier class DropShip to meet this need. Unveiled in 2882, the Carrier can accommodate a single Star of OmniFighters,

No info on production site but would believe Lum as well I would think this is the Dropship the Cloud Cobras build at their one site.

Quote
The first Miraborg-class DropShip slipped its moorings at the Huntress yards in April of 3053

Quote
Mass production of the standardized Overlord-Cs on Strana Mechty did not begin until after the liberation of the Pentagon worlds.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 25, 2018, 09:36:28 AM: Interestingly enough this is the only Star League era Jumpship that I could find reference to them building.

Quote
Of the Clan Monoliths, most were apparently constructed in the Pentagon or Kerensky Cluster, as only a dozen Monoliths were produced before the departure of the SLDF. Despite these different origins, however, few differences exist between the Clan and Inner Sphere Monoliths.

The rest seem to be upkept ones from the Exodus or other new Clan ones from 3075R
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Vition2 on September 25, 2018, 09:46:54 AM: Quote from: Bradshaw on September 25, 2018, 09:30:28 AM
Quote
Clan Snow Raven designed the Carrier class DropShip to meet this need. Unveiled in 2882, the Carrier can accommodate a single Star of OmniFighters,

No info on production site but would believe Lum as well I would think this is the Dropship the Cloud Cobras build at their one site.

The quote I mentioned in my last post was taken directly from the carrier section of TRO 3057R. So it is definitely produced on Lum (Third paragraph, first sentence in the carrier entry).
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 25, 2018, 10:28:36 AM: A little easier to follow this sheet.

Took Takiro & Irose Estimates and added in the known finds to the left most column.

Hate the formatting issues ugh here its as an attachment
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Vition2 on September 25, 2018, 11:02:33 AM: Quote from: Bradshaw on September 25, 2018, 10:28:36 AM
Hate the formatting issues ugh here its as an attachment

When I'm posting tables here, and on the official BT site, I usually switch the font to courier - that often fixes a lot of the problems with it.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 25, 2018, 11:25:13 AM: Quote from: Vition2 on September 25, 2018, 09:46:54 AM

The quote I mentioned in my last post was taken directly from the carrier section of TRO 3057R. So it is definitely produced on Lum (Third paragraph, first sentence in the carrier entry).

Thanks this is the reason I reread things again and again.

Quote
Titanium Wind was the name of an Aegls-class Cruiser, the flagship of Khan Rafe Kardaan's destroyer squadron prior to the Exodus Civil War. Though the vessel was lost during the initial stages of that war.

Warden pg 36
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 25, 2018, 12:06:11 PM: Quote
Just after the defeat at Tukayyid, a small Jaguar flotilla jumped into the Tanis system, demanding service and repairs from the Cobra recharge station. Star Admiral Holyann Kardaan. also in-system, brought Liberator-class Incense and four of its six assault ships against the three-Warship Jaguar force. Ten minutes into the engagment, the Jaguar Commander accepted hegira, leaving as isorla a Fredasa-class corvette and two of the Jaguars' new Miraborg class Dropships.

So this is where the Hell Fury changed hands from Smoke Jaguar to Cloud Cobra but also makes us remember that Recharging Stations can be used as Repair facilities. I'm thinking Clans may have larger ones than the Max 150k as stated in 3057R or it was using it for the Dropships but why rush on them when it could wait a little longer to get to the Kerensky Cluster.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Takiro on September 25, 2018, 04:15:55 PM: Did a lot of rereading of Operation Klondike today and thought I was in trouble when it came to an Eden shipyard. Dagda was actually the location of the only Naval Shipyard which the SLDF built following the Exodus because of rich mineral deposits. It was destroyed during the Exodus Civil War but not to worry. The Eden Naval Cache was not disturbed and is located on an asteroid like moon of Eden II. It was seized relatively intact and this is what I am thinking.

The Wolves managed to claim it after the Pentagon Campaign and established a well protected shipyards there which have certain limitations. Given the location and certain technical shortcomings (thanks to the Ravens) it is anything but complete. Often having to rely on others like the Ravens for maintenance the Eden yards while old are the Wolves major shipyard.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Takiro on September 26, 2018, 04:05:55 PM: Bradshaw and I also did a lot of research into the Field Report 2765 series just to see if it was possible if the SLDF took any of these ships with them on the Exodus. Doesn't appear to be the case but let us know if you guys have any info pointing in the other direction.

League I class Destroyer (Intro 2368 - 550k tons - FR FWL 2765 pg 23-24)
League II class Destroyer (Intro 2768 - 550k tons - FR FWL 2765 pg 23-24)
Defender class Battlecruiser (Intro 2360 - 960k tons - FR FS 2765 pg 25-26)
Congress D class Frigate (Intro 2542 - 760k tons - FR FS 2765 pg 27-28)
Commonwealth I class Light Cruiser (Intro 2375 - 700k tons - FR LC 2765 pg 23-24)
Commonwealth II class Light Cruiser (Intro 2765 - 700k tons - FR LC 2765 pg 23-24)
Soyal class Heavy Cruiser (Intro 2731 - 1.5m tons - FR CC 2765 pg 21-22)
Black Lion I class Battlecruiser (Intro 2315 - 720k tons - FR CC 2765 pg 19-20)
Narukami I class Destroyer (Intro 2380 - 670k tons - FR DC 2765 pg 21-22)
Narukami II class Destroyer (Intro 2770 - 670k tons - FR DC 2765 pg 21-22)
Cruiser class Cruiser (Intro 2325 - 500k tons - FR DC 2765 pg 23-24)
Essex I class Destroyer (Intro 2351 - 560k tons - FR P 2765 pg 30-31)
Athena class Cruiser (Intro 2569 - 500k tons - FR P 2765 pg 31-32)
Riga II class Destroyer/Carrier (Intro 2747 - 600k tons - FR P 2765 pg 33-34)
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 26, 2018, 04:29:50 PM: Riga II were turned into York we know the Clans had them.

Riga I Frigate we know Adders had one in their Cache
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Takiro on September 26, 2018, 04:38:22 PM: Duh, your right of course. Just a complete list from the Field Report 2765 series then.

Are you sure that is a Riga class Frigate (aka Block I and not the Destroyer/Carrier)?
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 26, 2018, 04:56:43 PM: Quote from: Takiro on September 26, 2018, 04:38:22 PM
Duh, your right of course. Just a complete list from the Field Report 2765 series then.

Are you sure that is a Riga class Frigate (aka Block I and not the Destroyer/Carrier)?

It has to be by a process of elimination. We know all Riga Destroyers were turned into Yorks and a Riga the Hetherington was named but not its class. It would have to be a Frigate then.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 26, 2018, 05:04:54 PM: Looking in Reaving again to see if it gives a class it doesn't but I found this.

Quote
The Shark fleet, one of the last to leave Vinton, had been holding station waiting for merchant caste stragglers. Two of the Shark JumpShips had mobile repair stations in tow.

pg 102

Maybe this is where Sharks also repaired their ships at.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Takiro on September 26, 2018, 06:33:08 PM: Mobile Repair Stations could be new though, what do you guys think?

Your not wrong with Recharging Stations being used to repair and maintain ships as well.

What did you think about the Wolf Naval Yards at Eden, plausible??
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: masterarminas on September 26, 2018, 06:50:07 PM: Quote from: Takiro on September 26, 2018, 06:33:08 PM
Mobile Repair Stations could be new though, what do you guys think?

Your not wrong with Recharging Stations being used to repair and maintain ships as well.

What did you think about the Wolf Naval Yards at Eden, plausible??

Plausible and likely. I mean, it is protected against micro-meteors and orbital debris by being housed within the rock itself, plus is large enough to be able to hold (probably) at least a dozen repair or construction slips, with still more mooring points. In fact, if it weren't for the Ravens and their desire to strangle such projects in their infancy, I could see the Eden Naval Yards having become the Clan's primary shipyard. Especially if rebuilding/construction began under the direction of ilKhan Nicholas!

MA
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Takiro on September 26, 2018, 08:38:59 PM: Quote from: masterarminas on September 26, 2018, 06:50:07 PM
Plausible and likely. I mean, it is protected against micro-meteors and orbital debris by being housed within the rock itself, plus is large enough to be able to hold (probably) at least a dozen repair or construction slips, with still more mooring points. In fact, if it weren't for the Ravens and their desire to strangle such projects in their infancy, I could see the Eden Naval Yards having become the Clan's primary shipyard. Especially if rebuilding/construction began under the direction of ilKhan Nicholas!

MA

Thanks MA! I was thinking other Clans on Eden would likely be frequent competitors for this asteroid facility. Jade Falcon and Smoke Jaguar in particular would contest extensive development with Hell's Horses not really giving it much thought at all. I wouldn't doubt that the Ravens would try to strangle development as well but could the environment present its own difficulties? Jumpships and those vessels which had their thrusters damaged would likely have difficulty using this in-system station.

Naval resources maybe difficult to obtain as well for the Wolves who would have to transport said sophisticated equipment into the asteroid for use. I am sure Bradshaw still has the qoute which outlines the Wolves (and some other Clan) desire to use the newly expanded Viper yards on New Kent.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 26, 2018, 08:52:52 PM: It may be used as upkeep but doesnt have the ability to be outfitted with advanced repair machinery. Or only certain sizes could enter it. Say destroyers or smaller
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: masterarminas on September 27, 2018, 12:53:05 AM: Quote from: Takiro on September 26, 2018, 08:38:59 PM
. . . but could the environment present its own difficulties? Jumpships and those vessels which had their thrusters damaged would likely have difficulty using this in-system station.

Naval resources maybe difficult to obtain as well for the Wolves who would have to transport said sophisticated equipment into the asteroid for use. I am sure Bradshaw still has the qoute which outlines the Wolves (and some other Clan) desire to use the newly expanded Viper yards on New Kent.

That is what tugs (dedicated DropShips with Towing Adaptors) are for.

MA
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: masterarminas on September 27, 2018, 01:09:00 AM: Quote from: Bradshaw on September 26, 2018, 08:52:52 PM
It may be used as upkeep but doesnt have the ability to be outfitted with advanced repair machinery. Or only certain sizes could enter it. Say destroyers or smaller

Maybe. But why would the SLDF have built the naval cache here if it couldn't accomodate larger vessels? I mean, even a 50-kilometer diameter moonlet (or large asteroid) has a tremendous amount of internal volume. Assuming that a mere 1% of the internal volume is available for Cache, that still gives us around 524 trillion cubic meters! If even just one-tenth of that is available after installation of the mooring stations and docking bays and other equipment, that means well over 5 trillion cubic meters remain.

More than enough space to house pretty much all of the Exodus Fleet!

Of course, we don't know how big the rock that the Cache was built into actually was. It could have been a lot smaller . . . or it might well have been even bigger.

Who knows? Well, no one. But we can certainly make it as big or as small as we want. Right?

MA
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Takiro on September 27, 2018, 06:26:17 AM: In this case you are quite correct MA, size doesn't matter. I am looking for excuses or reasons why the Wolf shipyard was limited.

Quote from: Bradshaw on September 21, 2018, 08:56:31 AM
The Wolves and Coyotes had noted the Viperâ€™s expansion of their New Kent shipyards begun in early 3061 and had bargained hard for the rights to use the yards to upgrade their aging WarShips.

pg 22

Rebuilding efforts have gone into revitalizing the Clanâ€™s BattleMech and Elemental factories, and expanding the Kirin shipyards in hopes of negotiating repair services with the other Clans

With only Kirin as the Clanâ€™s main shipyardâ€”the Tamaron yards were demolished by the Steel Vipers

pg 165

In the first above qoute from War of Reaving we find that both Wolf and Coyote bargain hard for the rights to use the Vipers newly expanded yards to upgrade their aging Warships.

Yet it in the second qoute we see that the Coyotes have their own yards. Now my assertion that every Clan has their own facilities cause they pride themselves on self-sufficiency.

So what makes the newly expanded Viper Yards on New Kent so special that the Wolves (Vlad's Crusaders no friends of the Coyotes) and the Coyotes are both so gung ho about using it for upgrades? Better question is why weren't the Ravens right behind them with an armada to destroy it?
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 27, 2018, 11:27:33 AM: Another warship from the Exodus

Quote
The result was a succession of traps and coordinated ambushes that wrought havoc on the advance elements of the Horse touman as they sought to pass through the Minotaur Shatters, the segments of Banlan Woods that had been razed by the Aegis-class warship Minotaur in its orbital fire barrage that bought Nicholasâ€™ troops chance to withdraw from the world on New Yearâ€™s Eve in 2801.

pg 91 Reaving
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 27, 2018, 01:07:31 PM: Quote from: Takiro on September 26, 2018, 06:33:08 PM
Mobile Repair Stations could be new though, what do you guys think?

I don't think they're new I just think they are shipyards that are being towed. You can pack a lot of Unpressurized bay in a light amount of tonnage

Class/Model/Name: Mobile Shipyard
Code: [Select]
Tech: Clan Ship Cost: $10,048,414,010.00 Magazine Cost: $0.00 BV2: 2,814 Mass: 40,000 K-F Drive System: None Power Plant: Station-Keeping Drive Safe Thrust: 0 Maximum Thrust: 0 Armor Type: Standard Armament: None Equipment: Mass Drive: 480.00 Thrust Safe: 0 Maximum: 0 Controls: 40.00 K-F Hyperdrive: None (0 Integrity) 0.00 Jump Sail: (0 Integrity) 0.00 Structural Integrity: 1 400.00 Total Heat Sinks: 150 Single 75.00 Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 5000 points 510.00 Fire Control Computers: 0.00 Armor: 160 pts Standard 160.00 Fore: 30 Fore-Left/Right: 30/30 Aft-Left/Right: 25/25 Aft: 20 Dropship Capacity: 0 0.00 Grav Decks: Small: 1 50.00 Medium: 0.00 Large: 0 0.00 Escape Pods: 100 700.00 Life Boats: 5 35.00 Crew And Passengers: 9 Officers in 1st Class Quarters 90.00 44 Crew in 2nd Class Quarters 308.00 0 Gunners and Others in 2nd Class Quarters 0.00 100 Bay Personnel 0.00 100 1st Class Passengers 1,000.00 500 2nd Class Passengers 3,500.00 0 Steerage Passengers 0.00 Bay Small Craft 20 Naval Repair Unpressurized 1,000,000 Cargo, Standard 3652 tons
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Takiro on September 27, 2018, 03:57:40 PM: Quote from: Bradshaw on September 27, 2018, 11:27:33 AM
Another warship from the Exodus

Quote
The result was a succession of traps and coordinated ambushes that wrought havoc on the advance elements of the Horse touman as they sought to pass through the Minotaur Shatters, the segments of Banlan Woods that had been razed by the Aegis-class warship Minotaur in its orbital fire barrage that bought Nicholasâ€™ troops chance to withdraw from the world on New Yearâ€™s Eve in 2801.

pg 91 Reaving

Interesting.

I don't know if I've shared this here but I feel the Aegis survived the Exodus Civil War in large numbers because of their extreme age. When the Exodus reached the Pentagon Worlds I think the SLDF demobilized much of their fleet just like they did their ground forces. Most likely the oldest ships like Aegis were the ones to get decommissioned as a result. Ships like the Minotaur could have been activated by Kerensky in order to undertake the Second Exodus.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: marauder648 on September 28, 2018, 06:38:45 AM: My ilKhan, a Chattermail has arrived for you, as per standing instructions it was read as it was not secure nor from any of the Khans, and I think you may find this interesting. It seem the Technicians and Merchants also want to get involved with the Quicksilver and Reforging programs. I feel that this is a breach of discipline despite the impressive initiative shown and can have the Watch look into this if you so request. I am sure that some of the Khans will not be happy that their Technicians have been getting ideas in their heads again.

My ilKhan,

We of the Technician and Merchant Castes wish to support the Scientists and Warriors in the Quicksilver endeavour and have spent many months compiling reports related to the inventory of supplies and parts as per laid down in Document 031/D dated 28/02/3053.

By liaising with the Clans involved in the Quicksilver programme and communications through the ChatterWeb and in person we have carried out an extensive investigation of available equipment currently in storage in Brian Caches across the Kerensky Cluster. Whilst each Clan holds details on its front line strength and availability as Secret and above, the older equipment that still fills out our ranks in secondary and tertiary units is far more freely available.

Whilst this investigation is still ongoing we have been able to get hard numbers on older models of Aerospace fighters that are still used by some Clans and many who sit in storage.
Many of these old craft were found to be in a poor state despite being in mothballs. The march of time, metal fatigue and long periods of time without activation or suitable maintenance has taken its toll. But, these machines can still serve the Clans.

Below is a list of the more common ex-SLDF fighters that were located in storage across the Cluster, but as of this writing, Caches are still being investigated, and these numbers are a preliminary accounting, other Caches may yet be found and opened up for investigation. I would like to thank the SaKhan of Clan Goliath Scorpion for the invaluable assistance that was given. By cross-referencing the records at the Temple of Nine Muses as well as the extensive historical logs the Scorpions have made recordings of, we was able to complete this endeavour far quicker than we might have hoped

Name      Number   Number in working condition      Weight

Trident      Est 600      Est. 195               12,00 tons
Swift        Est 400      Est 200               10,000 tons
Spad        Est 350      Est 250               10,500 tons
Zero        Est 400      Est 130               14,000 tons
Rogue      Est 130      Est 50               5,200 tons
Tomahawk     Est 1000     Est 500               45,000 tons
Hellcar II    335        185                 16,750 tons
Hellcat      40        10                  2,400 tons
Gotha      Est 250      Est 100               15,000 tons
Ironsides    27        5                  1,755 tons
Hammerhead   Est 125      Est 75               9,375 tons
Rapier       Est 400      Est 100               34,000 tons
Ahab        Est 100      Est 30               9,000 tons

Total tonnage of metal â€“ 184,980 tons
Total recoverable materials assuming 5% lost due to impurities and other wastage â€“ 175,731 tons

Name      Number   Number in working condition      Weight

Seydlitz       60      10                  1,200 tons
Cheetah     45      10                 1,125 tons
Sparrowhawk   80      25                 2,400 tons
Corsair      62      8                 3,100 tons
Lucifer      37      15                  2,405 tons
Chippewa     33      8                  2,970 tons
Stuka       139      40                  13,900 tons

Total Tonnage of Metal â€“ 27,100 tons
Total recoverable materials assuming 5% lost due to impurities and other wastage â€“ 25,745 tons.

Total tonnage of available materials â€“ 201,476 tons.

Please note the wastage of 5% is only an outlier, we hope to reduce it to 3% giving us â€“ 207,718 tons. In either case, this will also yield up a considerable tonnage of useful materials such as those used in energy weapons as well as the magnetic bottles of fusion reactors, all of which are available in lesser numbers in the Kerensky Cluster and beyond, so this represents a considerable stockpile of strategic materials.

As you can see, this is a considerable amount of resources locked up in older equipment that in most cases simply is not combat viable. The large number of Tomahawk fighters in service have been retrofitted with our technology but these conversions have proven to be problematic. Due to the age of the spaceframe, as well as incompatibilities with power and targeting systems, the fighters had to be re-wired and re-engined as well as having a complete avionics overhaul, which is both time consuming and resource expensive for updating such dated equipment.

This will be the case should we choose to retrofit the available craft, all of which will need testing for metal fatigue before they can be deemed airworthy and the resources for any refit program would be better used elsewhere.
But there are several options available to us.

1 â€“ Use several of the largest Brian Caches and convert them into small factories as was successfully done by Clan Mongoose to produce the Great Wyrm Mech. These facilities can be used to scrap the old Cached craft and render them down into useful materials for distribution elsewhere.

2 â€“ Use the converted Caches to scrap the older craft and use new built facilities to build equipment for immediate redistribution.

3 â€“ Use the converted Caches to update the older craft to modern Clan standards.

Attached at Annex A is the list of suitable locations for the reconditioning and recovery plants. Annex B lists the costs and resources involved as well as an estimated time of completion for any such conversion and construction.

We feel that option 1 is the better route, it offers the Clans an easy way to convert unwanted equipment into useful materials which can be used to construct new weapons and Mechs. A similar survey is also being completed for tanks and other equipment sitting in storage at Brian Caches and we hope to have similar numbers of recoverable materials, if not more.

Attached at Annex C is some initial designs done by a small team of Scientists who also assisted with the investigation into the Caches and represents what could be done with option 3. This option does offer slower returns, but could be used to bolster second line forces without detracting from front line production, as well as establishing up to 5 potential sub factories that could be operated for the benefit of all Clans

Master Technician Olivia

Code: [Select]
Tomahawk Sica Base Tech Level: Standard (Clan) Level Era ------------------- Experimental - Advanced - Standard 3145+ Tech Rating: F/X-X-X-D Weight: 45 tons BV: 2,016 Cost: 6,169,896 C-bills Movement: 8/12 Engine: 270 XL Heat Sinks: 14 [28] Fuel Points: 0/480 (6.0 tons) Structural Integrity: 8 Armor: 201 (Ferro-Aluminum) Armor ------------------- Nose 60 Left Wing 50 Right Wing 50 Aft 41 Weapons Loc Heat ------------------------------- ER Large Laser LWG 12 ER Large Laser RWG 12 Medium Pulse Laser NOS 4 Small Pulse Laser AFT 2 Medium Pulse Laser NOS 4 Equipment Loc -------------------------- Active Probe [Clan] NOS
Based on the 45 ton Tomahawk, the Sica features the a similar weapons mix of easily produced ER and pulse lasers and an active probe provides targetting data during space combat. Note that it features and uses the common 300 rated XL engine, our most easily available engine of its type.

Code: [Select]
Gotha Peithon Base Tech Level: Standard (Clan) Level Era ------------------- Experimental - Advanced - Standard 3145+ Tech Rating: F/X-X-X-D Weight: 60 tons BV: 2,873 Cost: 9,503,715 C-bills Movement: 7/11 Engine: 300 XL Heat Sinks: 15 [30] Fuel Points: 0/480 (6.0 tons) Structural Integrity: 7 Armor: 249 (Ferro-Aluminum) Armor ------------------- Nose 81 Left Wing 58 Right Wing 58 Aft 52 Weapons Loc Heat ---------------------------- LRM 15 LWG 5 LRM 15 RWG 5 ER PPC NOS 15 ER Medium Laser NOS 5 ER Medium Laser NOS 5 ER Medium Laser AFT 5 ER Small Laser LWG 2 ER Small Laser RWG 2 ER Small Laser AFT 2 Ammo Loc Shots ------------------------------------------------ LRM 15 (Clan) Artemis-capable Ammo LWG 8 LRM 15 (Clan) Artemis-capable Ammo LWG 8 LRM 15 (Clan) Artemis-capable Ammo RWG 8 LRM 15 (Clan) Artemis-capable Ammo RWG 8 Equipment Loc --------------------- Artemis IV FCS LWG Artemis IV FCS RWG
Also taking use of the 300 rated XL engine the reworked Gotha Staaken could serve as a heavy interceptor for second line forces, filling a notable gap between the Ammon and Xerxes.

Code: [Select]
Ironclad Base Tech Level: Standard (Clan) Level Era ------------------- Experimental - Advanced - Standard 3145+ Tech Rating: F/X-X-X-D Weight: 65 tons BV: 2,711 Cost: 9,270,120 C-bills Movement: 6/9 Engine: 260 XL Heat Sinks: 18 [36] Fuel Points: 0/400 (5.0 tons) Structural Integrity: 6 Armor: 259 (Ferro-Aluminum) Armor ------------------- Nose 74 Left Wing 62 Right Wing 62 Aft 61 Weapons Loc Heat ------------------------------- ER Medium Laser LWG 5 ER Medium Laser RWG 5 SRM 6 NOS 4 SRM 6 LWG 4 SRM 6 RWG 4 SRM 6 LWG 4 SRM 6 RWG 4 ER PPC NOS 15 ER PPC NOS 15 Medium Pulse Laser AFT 4 Ammo Loc Shots ------------------------ SRM 6 Ammo LWG 15 SRM 6 Ammo LWG 15 SRM 6 Ammo NOS 15 SRM 6 Ammo RWG 15 SRM 6 Ammo RWG 15
The Ironclad is a simple modernisation of the old Ironsides, mirroring its weapons fit but with considerably thicker protection as well as greater endurance on the battlefield thanks to its additional ammunition. Due to the scarcity of the Xerxes chassis outside of Clan Smoke Jaguar, this craft could be a cheaply made and hard hitting equivalent.

Code: [Select]
Gladius Base Tech Level: Standard (Clan) Level Era ------------------- Experimental - Advanced - Standard 3145+ Tech Rating: F/X-X-X-D Weight: 85 tons BV: 3,331 Cost: 15,463,055 C-bills Movement: 6/9 Engine: 340 XL Heat Sinks: 18 [36] Fuel Points: 0/400 (5.0 tons) Structural Integrity: 8 Armor: 288 (Ferro-Aluminum) Armor ------------------- Nose 88 Left Wing 70 Right Wing 70 Aft 60 Weapons Loc Heat --------------------------- LB 20-X AC NOS 6 ER PPC NOS 15 ER PPC NOS 15 ER Small Laser LWG 2 ER Small Laser AFT 2 ER Small Laser RWG 2 LRM 15 LWG 5 LRM 15 RWG 5 Ammo Loc Shots ---------------------------------- LB 20-X Cluster Ammo NOS 5 LB 20-X Cluster Ammo NOS 5 LB 20-X Cluster Ammo NOS 5 LB 20-X Cluster Ammo NOS 5 LRM 15 Ammo LWG 8 LRM 15 Ammo LWG 8 LRM 15 Ammo RWG 8 LRM 15 Ammo RWG 8
The Gladius is descended from the Rapier, a popular SLDF fighter and a craft that could be used to bridge the gap between other craft and the Hydaspes. Moving the weapons partially out of the nose fixes the Rapier's sometimes dangerous handling quirks and ensures that the craft can't be disabled by lucky hits to the nose. Armour protection is greatly increased over the original SLDF fighter and long range firepower is considerably increased.

Please note that these are only preliminary designs and can be ignored as needed.

OOC: Obviously i'm just pulling these numbers out of my ass, but I got the idea for looking into the caches with all the discussion about the WarShip caches. We know the Clans knew where many Brian Caches were, so this could be a thing they did to try and get a survey of numbers of equipment available etc.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 28, 2018, 09:05:42 AM: You're missing the large number of Battlemechs as well in stockpile in those Caches that could be slagged for materials or made into C variants. Well besides those that Quicksilver didn't fluff out into being able to be omnified. Looking at the number of Caches the Society knew about that supposedly Clans forgot about or never knew about. Your probably talking all together Id safely say half a million to three quarters of a million tons. Thats not including probably stockpiles of old SLDF Armor and Weaponry in crates.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: marauder648 on September 28, 2018, 09:47:57 AM: I left Mechs out because that would be a titanic job and this was something I thought up in the bath, also I think the Clans would be less willing to let folks poke around in their Mech stockpiles.

But that aside what ya think?
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Takiro on September 28, 2018, 11:01:38 AM: Neat write up bud, just remember the Aerospace Naming Conventions of the Clans for second line fighters are battles of Alexander the great.

Have to take a more in depth look when i get home but very nice.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: marauder648 on September 28, 2018, 12:25:53 PM: Aye, the names are unofficial, I think the Scientists who designed them wouldn't go for any of the official names without permission.

But names to choose from (as its stuff related to Alexander the Great and co)

Xiphos, Sarissa and Macharia were ones that sprang to mind, all Macedonian weapons (long sword, pike and short sword respectively), and weapons used by the warriors of Alexander.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 28, 2018, 01:10:32 PM: Quote from: marauder648 on September 28, 2018, 09:47:57 AM
I left Mechs out because that would be a titanic job and this was something I thought up in the bath, also I think the Clans would be less willing to let folks poke around in their Mech stockpiles.

But that aside what ya think?

Yea I wasn't meaning in terms of creating designs. Was meaning its an untapped resource for deconstructing for components in new machines or melting down entirely.

I mean why do you need all these old Star League designs sitting around collecting dust. At least C variant them and put them out into the field.

I was trying to find out the amount of troops the Society unleashed but can't find firm numbers anywhere. Now they knew of caches others forgot so I might be giving the Clans grief for nothing.

Quote from: marauder648 on September 28, 2018, 06:38:45 AM
1 â€“ Use several of the largest Brian Caches and convert them into small factories as was successfully done by Clan Mongoose to produce the Great Wyrm Mech. These facilities can be used to scrap the old Cached craft and render them down into useful materials for distribution elsewhere.

Don't think this would be a good choice as would flood the market with tons of new designs that would be hard for Clan's to maintain for all the different components needed.

Quote from: marauder648 on September 28, 2018, 06:38:45 AM
2 â€“ Use the converted Caches to scrap the older craft and use new built facilities to build equipment for immediate redistribution.

I think this is the top choice.

Quote from: marauder648 on September 28, 2018, 06:38:45 AM
3 â€“ Use the converted Caches to update the older craft to modern Clan standards.

This is the choice for poorer clans ala Blood Spirit
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Vition2 on September 28, 2018, 03:04:13 PM: Quote from: marauder648 on September 28, 2018, 06:38:45 AM
OOC: Obviously i'm just pulling these numbers out of my ass, but I got the idea for looking into the caches with all the discussion about the WarShip caches. We know the Clans knew where many Brian Caches were, so this could be a thing they did to try and get a survey of numbers of equipment available etc.

If it helps at all, I did some quick calculations to get a rough estimate of how many ASF may have left with Kerensky.

Some assumptions though:
Full aerospace complements for each unit, ie a Division always has it's full 54 ASF (and Jump Infantry Divisions 108).
Warships have their aerospace bays filled with ASF, but small craft bays with Small Craft.
The 35 "unknown" warships have an average of 18 ASF bays.
No independent Aero Wings.
No dropship based Fleet Aero Wings.
No spares ASF.

Total: ~14,000 ASF (actual number was actually 13,906)
Ground Aero Wings: ~8750
Fleet Aero Wings: ~5160

To compare that with your numbers, you had 4613 in caches.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: marauder648 on September 28, 2018, 03:15:29 PM: Intersting! Now we know that the Kerensky Cluster Civil War was brutal as all hell, and that the Clans would have been using SLDF stuff afterwards for a long time but once they started replacing it during the Golden Age, a lot of SLDF stuff was retired, scrapped or put into storage.

Of the survivors of the Civil War, Clan usage and scrapping, having roughly 1/3 of them left over in storage or in very much tertiary units could be a good ballpark figure. The rest have gone on to the great Hangar in the sky, better than slowly rusting in peace in the Brian Caches.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 28, 2018, 03:20:16 PM: Quote from: Vition2 on September 28, 2018, 03:04:13 PM
Quote from: marauder648 on September 28, 2018, 06:38:45 AM
OOC: Obviously i'm just pulling these numbers out of my ass, but I got the idea for looking into the caches with all the discussion about the WarShip caches. We know the Clans knew where many Brian Caches were, so this could be a thing they did to try and get a survey of numbers of equipment available etc.

If it helps at all, I did some quick calculations to get a rough estimate of how many ASF may have left with Kerensky.

Some assumptions though:
Full aerospace complements for each unit, ie a Division always has it's full 54 ASF (and Jump Infantry Divisions 108).
Warships have their aerospace bays filled with ASF, but small craft bays with Small Craft.
The 35 "unknown" warships have an average of 18 ASF bays.
No independent Aero Wings.
No dropship based Fleet Aero Wings.
No spares ASF.

Total: ~14,000 ASF (actual number was actually 13,906)
Ground Aero Wings: ~8750
Fleet Aero Wings: ~5160

To compare that with your numbers, you had 4613 in caches.

Nice number crunching. If you take it a step further I'm pretty sure it was stated Kerensky Cached 75% of all military supplies. Lets say 14000. We have 10,500 in reserve and 25% Active 3500 which seem like overkill.

If you say that and the same 25% that of Warships were destroyed in the Civil War youd have 900 destroyed. I think it would probably be double that as they are much more vulnerable. so 1800.

So 1700 active post Klondike.

You'd think the Clans would take out a number out of Caches lets say 50% over the time until Omnifighters are developed.

You could still have over 5k in Caches spread out across the Pentagon and Kerensky Cluster.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: marauder648 on September 28, 2018, 03:26:44 PM: But don't forget that with my numbers I just pulled them out of my ass, but they could be useful? If you think I was just blowing smoke, say so :D I'm not going to be offended :)
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Bradshaw on September 28, 2018, 03:33:56 PM: Quote from: marauder648 on September 28, 2018, 03:26:44 PM
But don't forget that with my numbers I just pulled them out of my ass, but they could be useful? If you think I was just blowing smoke, say so :D I'm not going to be offended :)

Your total was 4,213 thats close enough to me that it could work.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Vition2 on September 28, 2018, 03:49:34 PM: I actually think my numbers are a fair bit high, but wanted to toss out a number to start with. Considering the devastation of the Hegemony industry and the losses incurred in its reconquest I could see the numbers being decreased to as much as half what I suggested, but there's a huge amount of crunch there and large amounts of cached equipment could go a long way to making up those losses.

Most clans seem to have around 750 ASF (I, in another thread, calculated the Scorpions to have ~800 ASF in 3059 and they are noted as being ASF-lite, iirc). So that's ~13,000ish ASF among the clans. In the few clans we actually see TO&Es second line forces seem to make very heavy use of SLDF designs (granted those products were put out before real 2nd line designs were introduced). So you could see as many as 5,000 SLDF-era ASF in active service - and that's before we start talking about losses over 250 years, which could suggest there shouldn't be any SLDF designs remaining (my suspicions of ~12.33% yearly loss rate for ASF is a massive amount over such a period of time).

I'm not sure what the actual numbers should be, but ~4200 seem a little high, though the difference between serviceable and broken may produce numbers closer to what I would expect.
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Takiro on September 28, 2018, 03:54:42 PM: I am a little lost coming in just now. Let me go back and read marauder648's original Chatterings ;)
Title: Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
Post by: Takiro on September 28, 2018, 08:05:29 PM: The Good
1. A review of all Brian Caches would be a good idea marauder648 and so would some sort of effort to bolster second line fighters which the Clans in my opinion under value.
2. Quicksilver has addressed this with some Clans commissioning new aerospace fighters to bolster these reserve formations once neglected but now with the invasion have taken on increasing importance.
3. Your Alexander the Great names while not following the theme exactly as you went weapons not battles work and I like them
4. There would be stored equipment as you describe available to the Clans certainly

The Bad
1. I am leaning towards the recycling of many of these units although I can see some being kept for museums (Goliath Scorpion) or special reserves. Diamond Shark might even advocate selling some. Would the Clans possibly keep them as a proxy prize for ComStar or some other would be challenger? A prize certainly but one with limited value.
2. XL Engines on Quicksilver BattleMechs and Aerospace Fighters are generally a no no. However, there is such a thing as high end BattleMechs which feature XL Engines. I had envisioned these assets serving with tween formations (Diamond Shark Spinas for example) that mix front line and second line equipment. Sort of half way to front line units but also incorporating garrison assets these units
3. Quicksilver Fighters already exist BUT I need to review them so please stand by.....

The Drifting
1. We are getting a little away from the Warship topic and into aerospace here