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Author Topic: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.  (Read 39297 times)

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Bradshaw

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Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
« Reply #120 on: September 26, 2018, 04:29:50 PM »

Riga II were turned into York we know the Clans had them.

Riga I Frigate we know Adders had one in their Cache
« Last Edit: September 26, 2018, 04:37:32 PM by Bradshaw »
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Takiro

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Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
« Reply #121 on: September 26, 2018, 04:38:22 PM »

Duh, your right of course. Just a complete list from the Field Report 2765 series then.


Are you sure that is a Riga class Frigate (aka Block I and not the Destroyer/Carrier)?
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Bradshaw

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Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
« Reply #122 on: September 26, 2018, 04:56:43 PM »

Duh, your right of course. Just a complete list from the Field Report 2765 series then.


Are you sure that is a Riga class Frigate (aka Block I and not the Destroyer/Carrier)?

It has to be by a process of elimination. We know all Riga Destroyers were turned into Yorks and a Riga the Hetherington was named but not its class. It would have to be a Frigate then.
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Bradshaw

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Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
« Reply #123 on: September 26, 2018, 05:04:54 PM »

Looking in Reaving again to see if it gives a class it doesn't but I found this.

Quote
The Shark fleet, one of the last to leave Vinton, had been holding station waiting for merchant caste stragglers. Two of the Shark JumpShips had mobile repair stations in tow.

pg 102

Maybe this is where Sharks also repaired their ships at.
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Takiro

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Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
« Reply #124 on: September 26, 2018, 06:33:08 PM »

Mobile Repair Stations could be new though, what do you guys think?

Your not wrong with Recharging Stations being used to repair and maintain ships as well.

What did you think about the Wolf Naval Yards at Eden, plausible??
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masterarminas

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Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
« Reply #125 on: September 26, 2018, 06:50:07 PM »

Mobile Repair Stations could be new though, what do you guys think?

Your not wrong with Recharging Stations being used to repair and maintain ships as well.

What did you think about the Wolf Naval Yards at Eden, plausible??

Plausible and likely.  I mean, it is protected against micro-meteors and orbital debris by being housed within the rock itself, plus is large enough to be able to hold (probably) at least a dozen repair or construction slips, with still more mooring points.  In fact, if it weren't for the Ravens and their desire to strangle such projects in their infancy, I could see the Eden Naval Yards having become the Clan's primary shipyard.  Especially if rebuilding/construction began under the direction of ilKhan Nicholas!

MA
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Takiro

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Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
« Reply #126 on: September 26, 2018, 08:38:59 PM »

Plausible and likely.  I mean, it is protected against micro-meteors and orbital debris by being housed within the rock itself, plus is large enough to be able to hold (probably) at least a dozen repair or construction slips, with still more mooring points.  In fact, if it weren't for the Ravens and their desire to strangle such projects in their infancy, I could see the Eden Naval Yards having become the Clan's primary shipyard.  Especially if rebuilding/construction began under the direction of ilKhan Nicholas!

MA

Thanks MA! I was thinking other Clans on Eden would likely be frequent competitors for this asteroid facility. Jade Falcon and Smoke Jaguar in particular would contest extensive development with Hell's Horses not really giving it much thought at all. I wouldn't doubt that the Ravens would try to strangle development as well but could the environment present its own difficulties? Jumpships and those vessels which had their thrusters damaged would likely have difficulty using this in-system station.

Naval resources maybe difficult to obtain as well for the Wolves who would have to transport said sophisticated equipment into the asteroid for use. I am sure Bradshaw still has the qoute which outlines the Wolves (and some other Clan) desire to use the newly expanded Viper yards on New Kent.
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Bradshaw

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Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
« Reply #127 on: September 26, 2018, 08:52:52 PM »

It may be used as upkeep but doesnt have the ability to be outfitted with advanced repair machinery. Or only certain sizes could enter it. Say destroyers or smaller
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masterarminas

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Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
« Reply #128 on: September 27, 2018, 12:53:05 AM »

. . . but could the environment present its own difficulties? Jumpships and those vessels which had their thrusters damaged would likely have difficulty using this in-system station.

Naval resources maybe difficult to obtain as well for the Wolves who would have to transport said sophisticated equipment into the asteroid for use. I am sure Bradshaw still has the qoute which outlines the Wolves (and some other Clan) desire to use the newly expanded Viper yards on New Kent.

That is what tugs (dedicated DropShips with Towing Adaptors) are for. 

MA
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masterarminas

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Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
« Reply #129 on: September 27, 2018, 01:09:00 AM »

It may be used as upkeep but doesnt have the ability to be outfitted with advanced repair machinery. Or only certain sizes could enter it. Say destroyers or smaller

Maybe.  But why would the SLDF have built the naval cache here if it couldn't accomodate larger vessels?  I mean, even a 50-kilometer diameter moonlet (or large asteroid) has a tremendous amount of internal volume.  Assuming that a mere 1% of the internal volume is available for Cache, that still gives us around 524 trillion cubic meters!  If even just one-tenth of that is available after installation of the mooring stations and docking bays and other equipment, that means well over 5 trillion cubic meters remain.

More than enough space to house pretty much all of the Exodus Fleet!

Of course, we don't know how big the rock that the Cache was built into actually was.  It could have been a lot smaller . . . or it might well have been even bigger

Who knows?  Well, no one.  But we can certainly make it as big or as small as we want.  Right?

MA

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Takiro

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Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
« Reply #130 on: September 27, 2018, 06:26:17 AM »

In this case you are quite correct MA, size doesn't matter. I am looking for excuses or reasons why the Wolf shipyard was limited.

The Wolves and Coyotes had noted the Viper’s expansion of their New Kent shipyards begun in early 3061 and had bargained hard for the rights to use the yards to upgrade their aging WarShips.

pg 22

Rebuilding efforts have gone into revitalizing the Clan’s BattleMech and Elemental factories, and expanding the Kirin shipyards in hopes of negotiating repair services with the other Clans

With only Kirin as the Clan’s main shipyard—the Tamaron yards were demolished by the Steel Vipers

pg 165

In the first above qoute from War of Reaving we find that both Wolf and Coyote bargain hard for the rights to use the Vipers newly expanded yards to upgrade their aging Warships.

Yet it in the second qoute we see that the Coyotes have their own yards. Now my assertion that every Clan has their own facilities cause they pride themselves on self-sufficiency.

So what makes the newly expanded Viper Yards on New Kent so special that the Wolves (Vlad's Crusaders no friends of the Coyotes) and the Coyotes are both so gung ho about using it for upgrades? Better question is why weren't the Ravens right behind them with an armada to destroy it? 
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Bradshaw

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Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
« Reply #131 on: September 27, 2018, 11:27:33 AM »

Another warship from the Exodus

Quote
The result was a succession of traps and coordinated ambushes that wrought havoc on the advance elements of the Horse touman as they sought to pass through the Minotaur Shatters, the segments of Banlan Woods that had been razed by the Aegis-class warship Minotaur in its orbital fire barrage that bought Nicholas’ troops chance to withdraw from the world on New Year’s Eve in 2801.

pg 91 Reaving
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Bradshaw

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Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
« Reply #132 on: September 27, 2018, 01:07:31 PM »

Mobile Repair Stations could be new though, what do you guys think?

I don't think they're new I just think they are shipyards that are being towed. You can pack a lot of Unpressurized bay in a light amount of tonnage

Class/Model/Name:   Mobile Shipyard
Code: [Select]
Tech: Clan
Ship Cost: $10,048,414,010.00
Magazine Cost: $0.00
BV2: 2,814

Mass: 40,000
K-F Drive System: None
Power Plant: Station-Keeping Drive
Safe Thrust: 0
Maximum Thrust: 0
Armor Type: Standard
Armament:
None

Equipment: Mass
Drive: 480.00
Thrust
Safe: 0
Maximum: 0
Controls: 40.00
K-F Hyperdrive: None (0 Integrity) 0.00
Jump Sail: (0 Integrity) 0.00
Structural Integrity: 1 400.00
Total Heat Sinks: 150 Single 75.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 5000 points 510.00
Fire Control Computers: 0.00
Armor: 160 pts Standard 160.00
Fore: 30
Fore-Left/Right: 30/30
Aft-Left/Right: 25/25
Aft: 20

Dropship Capacity: 0 0.00
Grav Decks:
Small: 1 50.00
Medium: 0.00
Large: 0 0.00
Escape Pods: 100 700.00
Life Boats: 5 35.00

Crew And Passengers:
9 Officers in 1st Class Quarters 90.00
44 Crew in 2nd Class Quarters 308.00
0 Gunners and Others in 2nd Class Quarters 0.00
100 Bay Personnel 0.00
100 1st Class Passengers 1,000.00
500 2nd Class Passengers 3,500.00
0 Steerage Passengers 0.00

Bay Small Craft 20
Naval Repair Unpressurized 1,000,000
Cargo, Standard 3652 tons
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Takiro

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Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
« Reply #133 on: September 27, 2018, 03:57:40 PM »

Another warship from the Exodus

Quote
The result was a succession of traps and coordinated ambushes that wrought havoc on the advance elements of the Horse touman as they sought to pass through the Minotaur Shatters, the segments of Banlan Woods that had been razed by the Aegis-class warship Minotaur in its orbital fire barrage that bought Nicholas’ troops chance to withdraw from the world on New Year’s Eve in 2801.

pg 91 Reaving

Interesting.

I don't know if I've shared this here but I feel the Aegis survived the Exodus Civil War in large numbers because of their extreme age. When the Exodus reached the Pentagon Worlds I think the SLDF demobilized much of their fleet just like they did their ground forces. Most likely the oldest ships like Aegis were the ones to get decommissioned as a result. Ships like the Minotaur could have been activated by Kerensky in order to undertake the Second Exodus.
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marauder648

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Re: Quicksilver WarShips -Thoughts.
« Reply #134 on: September 28, 2018, 06:38:45 AM »

My ilKhan, a Chattermail has arrived for you, as per standing instructions it was read as it was not secure nor from any of the Khans, and I think you may find this interesting.  It seem the Technicians and Merchants also want to get involved with the Quicksilver and Reforging programs.  I feel that this is a breach of discipline despite the impressive initiative shown and can have the Watch look into this if you so request.  I am sure that some of the Khans will not be happy that their Technicians have been getting ideas in their heads again.


My ilKhan,

We of the Technician and Merchant Castes wish to support the Scientists and Warriors in the Quicksilver endeavour and have spent many months compiling reports related to the inventory of supplies and parts as per laid down in Document 031/D dated 28/02/3053.

By liaising with the Clans involved in the Quicksilver programme and communications through the ChatterWeb and in person we have carried out an extensive investigation of available equipment currently in storage in Brian Caches across the Kerensky Cluster.  Whilst each Clan holds details on its front line strength and availability as Secret and above, the older equipment that still fills out our ranks  in secondary and tertiary units is far more freely available. 

Whilst this investigation is still ongoing we have been able to get hard numbers on older models of Aerospace fighters that are still used by some Clans and many who sit in storage. 
Many of these old craft were found to be in a poor state despite being in mothballs.  The march of time, metal fatigue and long periods of time without activation or suitable maintenance has taken its toll.  But, these machines can still serve the Clans.

Below is a list of the more common ex-SLDF fighters that were located in storage across the Cluster, but as of this writing, Caches are still being investigated, and these numbers are a preliminary accounting, other Caches may yet be found and opened up for investigation.  I would like to thank the SaKhan of Clan Goliath Scorpion for the invaluable assistance that was given.  By cross-referencing the records at the Temple of Nine Muses as well as the extensive historical logs the Scorpions have made recordings of, we was able to complete this endeavour far quicker than we might have hoped


Name      Number   Number in working condition      Weight

Trident      Est 600      Est. 195               12,00 tons
Swift              Est 400      Est 200               10,000 tons
Spad              Est 350      Est 250               10,500 tons
Zero              Est 400      Est 130               14,000 tons
Rogue      Est 130      Est 50               5,200 tons
Tomahawk           Est 1000           Est 500               45,000 tons
Hellcar II       335              185                       16,750 tons
Hellcat      40              10                        2,400 tons
Gotha      Est 250      Est 100               15,000 tons
Ironsides       27              5                        1,755 tons
Hammerhead   Est 125      Est 75               9,375 tons
Rapier       Est 400      Est 100               34,000 tons
Ahab              Est 100      Est 30               9,000 tons

Total tonnage of metal – 184,980 tons
Total recoverable materials assuming 5% lost due to impurities and other wastage – 175,731 tons

Name      Number   Number in working condition      Weight

Seydlitz       60      10                                1,200 tons
Cheetah           45      10                               1,125 tons
Sparrowhawk   80      25                               2,400 tons
Corsair      62      8                               3,100 tons
Lucifer      37      15                                2,405 tons
Chippewa           33      8                                      2,970 tons
Stuka       139      40                                13,900 tons

Total Tonnage of Metal – 27,100 tons
Total recoverable materials assuming 5% lost due to impurities and other wastage – 25,745 tons.

Total tonnage of available materials – 201,476 tons.

Please note the wastage of 5% is only an outlier, we hope to reduce it to 3% giving us – 207,718 tons.  In either case, this will also yield up a considerable tonnage of useful materials such as those used in energy weapons as well as the magnetic bottles of fusion reactors, all of which are available in lesser numbers in the Kerensky Cluster and beyond, so this represents a considerable stockpile of strategic materials. 

As you can see, this is a considerable amount of resources locked up in older equipment that in most cases simply is not combat viable.  The large number of Tomahawk fighters in service have been retrofitted with our technology but these conversions have proven to be problematic.  Due to the age of the spaceframe, as well as incompatibilities with power and targeting systems, the fighters had to be re-wired and re-engined as well as having a complete avionics overhaul, which is both time consuming and resource expensive for updating such dated equipment.

This will be the case should we choose to retrofit the available craft, all of which will need testing for metal fatigue before they can be deemed airworthy and the resources for any refit program would be better used elsewhere. 
But there are several options available to us.

1 – Use several of the largest Brian Caches and convert them into small factories as was successfully done by Clan Mongoose to produce the Great Wyrm Mech.  These facilities can be used to scrap the old Cached craft and render them down into useful materials for distribution elsewhere.

2 – Use the converted Caches to scrap the older craft and use new built facilities to build equipment for immediate redistribution. 

3 – Use the converted Caches to update the older craft to modern Clan standards.

Attached at Annex A is the list of suitable locations for the reconditioning and recovery plants.  Annex B lists the costs and resources involved as well as an estimated time of completion for any such conversion and construction.

We feel that option 1 is the better route, it offers the Clans an easy way to convert unwanted equipment into useful materials which can be used to construct new weapons and Mechs.  A similar survey is also being completed for tanks and other equipment sitting in storage at Brian Caches and we hope to have similar numbers of recoverable materials, if not more.

Attached at Annex C is some initial designs done by a small team of Scientists who also assisted with the investigation into the Caches and represents what could be done with option 3.  This option does offer slower returns, but could be used to bolster second line forces without detracting from front line production, as well as establishing up to 5 potential sub factories that could be operated for the benefit of all Clans


Master Technician Olivia



Code: [Select]
Tomahawk  Sica
Base Tech Level: Standard (Clan)
Level          Era
-------------------
Experimental    - 
Advanced        - 
Standard      3145+
Tech Rating: F/X-X-X-D

Weight: 45 tons
BV: 2,016
Cost: 6,169,896 C-bills

Movement: 8/12
Engine: 270 XL
Heat Sinks: 14 [28]
Fuel Points: 0/480 (6.0 tons)

Structural Integrity: 8
Armor: 201 (Ferro-Aluminum)
            Armor 
-------------------
Nose           60 
Left Wing      50 
Right Wing     50 
Aft            41 

Weapons             Loc  Heat 
-------------------------------
ER Large Laser      LWG   12   
ER Large Laser      RWG   12   
Medium Pulse Laser  NOS    4   
Small Pulse Laser   AFT    2   
Medium Pulse Laser  NOS    4   


Equipment            Loc 
--------------------------
Active Probe [Clan]  NOS 



Based on the 45 ton Tomahawk, the Sica features the a similar weapons mix of easily produced ER and pulse lasers and an active probe provides targetting data during space combat.  Note that it features and uses the common 300 rated XL engine, our most easily available engine of its type.



Code: [Select]
Gotha Peithon
Base Tech Level: Standard (Clan)
Level          Era
-------------------
Experimental    - 
Advanced        - 
Standard      3145+
Tech Rating: F/X-X-X-D

Weight: 60 tons
BV: 2,873
Cost: 9,503,715 C-bills

Movement: 7/11
Engine: 300 XL
Heat Sinks: 15 [30]
Fuel Points: 0/480 (6.0 tons)

Structural Integrity: 7
Armor: 249 (Ferro-Aluminum)
            Armor 
-------------------
Nose           81 
Left Wing      58 
Right Wing     58 
Aft            52 

Weapons          Loc  Heat 
----------------------------
LRM 15           LWG    5   
LRM 15           RWG    5   
ER PPC           NOS   15   
ER Medium Laser  NOS    5   
ER Medium Laser  NOS    5   
ER Medium Laser  AFT    5   
ER Small Laser   LWG    2   
ER Small Laser   RWG    2   
ER Small Laser   AFT    2   

Ammo                                Loc  Shots 
------------------------------------------------
LRM 15 (Clan) Artemis-capable Ammo  LWG      8 
LRM 15 (Clan) Artemis-capable Ammo  LWG      8 
LRM 15 (Clan) Artemis-capable Ammo  RWG      8 
LRM 15 (Clan) Artemis-capable Ammo  RWG      8 


Equipment       Loc 
---------------------
Artemis IV FCS  LWG 
Artemis IV FCS  RWG 


Also taking use of the 300 rated XL engine the reworked Gotha Staaken could serve as a heavy interceptor for second line forces, filling a notable gap between the Ammon and Xerxes.

Code: [Select]
Ironclad
Base Tech Level: Standard (Clan)
Level          Era
-------------------
Experimental    - 
Advanced        - 
Standard      3145+
Tech Rating: F/X-X-X-D

Weight: 65 tons
BV: 2,711
Cost: 9,270,120 C-bills

Movement: 6/9
Engine: 260 XL
Heat Sinks: 18 [36]
Fuel Points: 0/400 (5.0 tons)

Structural Integrity: 6
Armor: 259 (Ferro-Aluminum)
            Armor 
-------------------
Nose           74 
Left Wing      62 
Right Wing     62 
Aft            61 

Weapons             Loc  Heat 
-------------------------------
ER Medium Laser     LWG    5   
ER Medium Laser     RWG    5   
SRM 6               NOS    4   
SRM 6               LWG    4   
SRM 6               RWG    4   
SRM 6               LWG    4   
SRM 6               RWG    4   
ER PPC              NOS   15   
ER PPC              NOS   15   
Medium Pulse Laser  AFT    4   

Ammo        Loc  Shots 
------------------------
SRM 6 Ammo  LWG     15 
SRM 6 Ammo  LWG     15 
SRM 6 Ammo  NOS     15 
SRM 6 Ammo  RWG     15 
SRM 6 Ammo  RWG     15 



The Ironclad is a simple modernisation of the old Ironsides, mirroring its weapons fit but with considerably thicker protection as well as greater endurance on the battlefield thanks to its additional ammunition.  Due to the scarcity of the Xerxes chassis outside of Clan Smoke Jaguar, this craft could be a cheaply made and hard hitting equivalent. 

Code: [Select]
Gladius
Base Tech Level: Standard (Clan)
Level          Era
-------------------
Experimental    - 
Advanced        - 
Standard      3145+
Tech Rating: F/X-X-X-D

Weight: 85 tons
BV: 3,331
Cost: 15,463,055 C-bills

Movement: 6/9
Engine: 340 XL
Heat Sinks: 18 [36]
Fuel Points: 0/400 (5.0 tons)

Structural Integrity: 8
Armor: 288 (Ferro-Aluminum)
            Armor 
-------------------
Nose           88 
Left Wing      70 
Right Wing     70 
Aft            60 

Weapons         Loc  Heat 
---------------------------
LB 20-X AC      NOS    6   
ER PPC          NOS   15   
ER PPC          NOS   15   
ER Small Laser  LWG    2   
ER Small Laser  AFT    2   
ER Small Laser  RWG    2   
LRM 15          LWG    5   
LRM 15          RWG    5   

Ammo                  Loc  Shots 
----------------------------------
LB 20-X Cluster Ammo  NOS      5 
LB 20-X Cluster Ammo  NOS      5 
LB 20-X Cluster Ammo  NOS      5 
LB 20-X Cluster Ammo  NOS      5 
LRM 15 Ammo           LWG      8 
LRM 15 Ammo           LWG      8 
LRM 15 Ammo           RWG      8 
LRM 15 Ammo           RWG      8 



The Gladius is descended from the Rapier, a popular SLDF fighter and a craft that could be used to bridge the gap between other craft and the Hydaspes.  Moving the weapons partially out of the nose fixes the Rapier's sometimes dangerous handling quirks and ensures that the craft can't be disabled by lucky hits to the nose.  Armour protection is greatly increased over the original SLDF fighter and long range firepower is considerably increased.

Please note that these are only preliminary designs and can be ignored as needed.






OOC: Obviously i'm just pulling these numbers out of my ass, but I got the idea for looking into the caches with all the discussion about the WarShip caches. We know the Clans knew where many Brian Caches were, so this could be a thing they did to try and get a survey of numbers of equipment available etc.



« Last Edit: November 23, 2018, 02:02:31 PM by marauder648 »
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