OBT Forum
General BattleTech => General Discussion => AeroTech => Topic started by: Bradshaw on October 11, 2018, 12:31:56 PM
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In reviewing the data returning from the Invasion, Clans Snow Raven and Cloud Cobra came to the conclusion that the aerospace advantage they believed they would have did not come to fruition. Prior to the ilKhan's death aboard the Dire Wolf, a pilot program between two of the leaders in naval warfare amongst the Clans began. Turning to the predominately civilian based small craft frameworks the idea was born to create an new classification of Heavy Aerospace fighters. Intended to be the slower but more heavily armored brother of conventional OmniFighters twin designs were created in small amounts in a pilot program. From the Raven's came the Corvid Heavy Aerospace fighter, weighing in at 200 tons, double the tonnage of the heaviest aerospace fighter in production. The Ravens created a weapons load-out inspired by the Chippewa IIC from antiquity and fame of the absorbed Mongooses. Removing its missile systems and small lasers and unfortunately its advanced Targeting Computer that was incompatible with the targeting systems inherent with small craft. From the Cloud Cobras comes the Tundra Swan a design thought to be inspired by the Star League Ahab Aerospace Fighter. Designed primarily as a missile boat with its six LRM-15s. Supported by a battery of ER Medium Lasers in both its Nose and Aft. With 10 tons of fuel on both designs as well as 10 tons of supplies. The designs may survive if not for their intended roles as long range patrol crafts in Clan systems.
With the loss at Tukayyid and the new ilKhans proposed Quicksilver Trials both designs have been put on the back-burner until the Trials have ended and its determined if these new craft might still find a role within the Clan Toumans.
Corvid Heavy Aerospace Fighter
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/dc/f6/e4/dcf6e499edcc901088487a5fb076ea26--concept-ships-space-ship.jpg)
Weight: 200 tons
BV: 3,327
Cost: 19,269,200 C-bills
Movement: 4/6
Heat Sinks: 30 [60]
Fuel Points: 0/800 (10.0 tons)
Tons Per Burn Day: 1.84
Structural Integrity: 6
Armor: 480 (Ferro-Aluminum)
Armor
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Nose 144
Left Side 120
Right Side 120
Aft 96
Weapons Loc Heat
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ER Large Laser NOS 12
ER Large Laser NOS 12
ER Large Laser NOS 12
ER Large Laser NOS 12
ER Large Laser NOS 12
ER Medium Laser LS 5
ER Medium Laser LS 5
ER Medium Laser LS 5
ER Medium Laser LS 5
ER Medium Laser RS 5
ER Medium Laser RS 5
ER Medium Laser RS 5
ER Medium Laser RS 5
ER Medium Laser AFT 5
ER Medium Laser AFT 5
ER Medium Laser AFT 5
ER Medium Laser AFT 5
Carrying Capacity
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Cargo Space (1 door) - 10 tons
Crew
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Officers 2
Enlisted/Non-rated 1
Gunners 3
Bay Personnel 0
Tundra Swan Heavy Aerospace Fighter
(https://png2.kisspng.com/20180326/yuq/kisspng-heavy-bomber-spacecraft-ship-science-fiction-space-craft-5ab94ad1569940.1946564715220927533547.png)
Weight: 200 tons
BV: 3,221
Cost: 20,169,200 C-bills
Movement: 4/6
Heat Sinks: 15 [30]
Fuel Points: 0/800 (10.0 tons)
Tons Per Burn Day: 1.84
Structural Integrity: 6
Armor: 480 (Ferro-Aluminum)
Armor
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Nose 144
Left Side 120
Right Side 120
Aft 96
Weapons Loc Heat
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LRM 15 LS 5
LRM 15 LS 5
LRM 15 LS 5
LRM 15 RS 5
LRM 15 RS 5
LRM 15 RS 5
ER Medium Laser NOS 5
ER Medium Laser NOS 5
ER Medium Laser NOS 5
ER Medium Laser NOS 5
ER Medium Laser AFT 5
ER Medium Laser AFT 5
ER Medium Laser AFT 5
ER Medium Laser AFT 5
Ammo Loc Shots
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LRM 15 Ammo RS 72
LRM 15 Ammo LS 72
Carrying Capacity
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Cargo Space (1 door) - 10 tons
Crew
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Officers 2
Enlisted/Non-rated 1
Gunners 3
Bay Personnel 0
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They look pretty nasty bud!
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I like the idea, generally, but can build almost the same as the Raven one on an aerospace frame of 100 tons. Now, it was a very quick and dirty build, but I end up without the cargo space and 4.5 tons overweight. If I simply dropped the fuel mass down to 7.5 tons and armor to 23 tons, I've got a smaller piece of equipment (which might cost less), but is functionally similar.
What do it lose? It doesn't have the versatile 10 tons of cargo, it doesn't have extended length activities, slightly less combat range and slightly less overall armor (but still extremely beefy for a clan ASF at 442 points).
What do it gain? Quicker acting on the initiative order, carry-able in smaller bays, could be omni-ized to create a more versatile combatant. Potential cost/resource use reduction.
The Tundra Swan is stated to be a long range patrol craft, rather than effectively an over-weight strike fighter. That's really what both of these ought to be for, as ASF can't fill those roles on their own - though DS bases might actually be more effective as they have more mass to dedicate to listening arrays.
Critique over. I otherwise like both designs, they seem fairly functional and seem as though they could be something that both or either clan would consider.
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I thought of this last night thinking I could come up with a much more powerful weapons platform than an aerospace fighter, once the design started coming together I realized the same as you Vition. The engine mass just takes up so much of the design as well as the living quarters that you are left with basically an enlarged fighter with nothing to show for it. Its why I ended up changing my fluff idea to make it a pilot program and patrol craft and fit it into the Quicksilver universe a little as a side project.
Was thinking of asking Tak if this could be something in the future for his universe the Clans come up with like the Inner Sphere in canon came out with the Super heavy 'Mech and vehicle. Or perhaps if we ever work more on the alternate where the Pentagon Powers united and overcame the Clan invasion.
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I took a swing at a fighter/bomber Aerospace fighter a long time ago. Mind you, I cheated and used home-brew rules to reach ASF-level performance. Have you considered more exotic roles? Arrow ADA launcher, an expansion on the ASF/Elemental carrier, boarding assault, standard bomber? Then there are the non-combatant roles. I shudder to consider the cost, but Omnitech could make it extremely versatile.
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I took a swing at a fighter/bomber Aerospace fighter a long time ago. Mind you, I cheated and used home-brew rules to reach ASF-level performance. Have you considered more exotic roles? Arrow ADA launcher, an expansion on the ASF/Elemental carrier, boarding assault, standard bomber? Then there are the non-combatant roles. I shudder to consider the cost, but Omnitech could make it extremely versatile.
I did refresh my memory of the bombing rules thinking that could be a roll, but couldn't figure a way within the rules to make it worth it. I did come up with a battlearmor transport version as well will post tomorrow when back at work.
An arrow system one might be interesting to try out as well.
I might try an IS one just to mess with Rocket Launchers
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Nah Bradshaw has no idea of the Small Craft Bombers we did back in the day. Great stuff as it was, to bad they were ruled illegal. It was a great niche for them to fill.
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Fireangel did repost the ones i was thinking about.
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=20786.0
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Took today off so just got around to revamping the Troop Transport variant. I decided to incorporate the Arrow system with the design. I feel this would make an effective Headhunter tool.
Juvats Tactical Transport
Weight: 200 tons
BV: 2,492
Cost: 19,050,000 C-bills
Movement: 5/8
Heat Sinks: 20 [40]
Fuel Points: 0 (0.0 tons)
Tons Per Burn Day: 1.84
Structural Integrity: 9
Armor: 332
Armor
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Nose 100
Left Side 80
Right Side 80
Aft 72
Weapons Loc Heat
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Arrow IV LS 10
Arrow IV LS 10
Arrow IV RS 10
Arrow IV RS 10
Ammo Loc Shots
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Arrow IV Ammo RS 20
Arrow IV Ammo LS 20
Carrying Capacity
-----------------
Battle Armor Bay (1 door) - 1 Point
Crew
---------------------
Officers 1
Enlisted/Non-rated 2
Gunners 1
Bay Personnel 6
Not sure which I like better
Juvats Tactical Transport
Base Tech Level: Standard (Clan)
Weight: 200 tons
BV: 2,740
Cost: 22,050,000 C-bills
Movement: 5/8
Heat Sinks: 10 [20]
Fuel Points: 0 (0.0 tons)
Tons Per Burn Day: 1.84
Structural Integrity: 9
Armor: 324
Armor
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Nose 94
Left Side 80
Right Side 80
Aft 70
Weapons Loc Heat
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Arrow IV LS 10
Arrow IV RS 10
ER Large Laser NOS 12
Large Pulse Laser NOS 10
Large Pulse Laser NOS 10
ER Medium Laser AFT 5
ER Medium Laser AFT 5
Ammo Loc Shots
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Arrow IV Ammo RS 20
Arrow IV Ammo LS 20
Equipment Loc
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Active Probe [Clan] NOS
ECM Suite [Clan] AFT
Satellite Imager [High-Resolution (Hi-Res) Imager] NOS
Satellite Imager [Infrared Imager] NOS
Carrying Capacity
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Battle Armor Bay (1 door) - 1 Point
Crew
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Officers 1
Enlisted/Non-rated 2
Gunners 2
Bay Personnel 6
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I will have to put small craft on the Quicksilver list
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Love the Corvid Heavy Aerospace Fighter just the thing to deny drop ships safcon...
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I like the idea, the pictures and the designs as well as their background, but these are not really fighters, they are more a kind of patrol/support ship that could be used whilst DropShips are entering the atmosphere or to be based on the ground or in orbit as a patrol craft that might well be the first line of defence should a world or station or something come under attack.
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I really wish there was a sub-cap weapon that would fit on these.
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I don't understand the reason missiles are the only capital weapons allowed on nonwarships.
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One idea I did have is that a Small Craft could carry a Cap missile or two (depending on size) and have it act basically like a release and launch weapon. The releasing ship has to fire it in 'short range' for the missile and must be facing the target until it hits. But it could give them a kind of stand off weapon.
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Like the main external fuel tank on the centreline of an f-15? I do that for my AUs FighterShips, a single Cap missile for an anti-shipping role.
You’d have to check for fighter munitions.
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Yeah kind of like this
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/95/Raduga_Kh-22.jpg)
For a Killer Whale or
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/Tu-16_Badger_G.jpg)
For a Barracuda or something.
IIRC there are anti-ship missiles that fighters can carry but I think these are just Arrow missiles.
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Would make sense.
So many new rules im not familiar with, Arrow missiles? Are they basically Arrow OS?
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I'm not sure, I know there's Arrow AAMs which let you do a single 20 point wallop and I'd have thought that the ASM's were basically the same thing.
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Yes they are Arrow missiles and there are actually 2 types, standard anti-ship ones and EW ones. Functionally ASMs act like barracudas but do the damage of white sharks. For reference, Tactical Operations, page 359.
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Its a Anti-Aircraft variant of the Arrow, I can't remember if it's a single or from a standard launcher.
What is truly EVIL, is how I put tandem-charge warheads on them. It's the biggest fear of my super-heavy units, a fast vee with a Lance of artillery behind it. Even splitting the standard 20-point warhead into 10/10 means a one-shot kills an assault Mech. It's one of the defenses against a Clan assault trying to enforce their Trial of annihilation.
But, this is another example of a suitable small craft role. I assume you read the D&D(D) story? What do you think of the role of their Piranha in terms of the anti-shipping role?
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AAA, ASM, and ASEWM are all bomb munitions and therefore oneshot - they cannot use standard Arrow IV launchers. The AAA is 1 ton each and use 5 bomb slots. The ASM/ASEWM are 2 tons each and use 6 bomb slots. So a 100-ton fighter could have up to 4 AAAs or 3 ASM/ASEWM.
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As a closing weapon, I could see it. As a weapon with a pee-wee nuke, it could make a DS in atmosphere REALLY nervous.