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Author Topic: jumpships/numbers  (Read 1074 times)

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Hairbear541

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jumpships/numbers
« on: August 06, 2014, 12:21:16 AM »
is there anywhere that gives a firm estimate on the number of commercial jumpships actually built , and not those built for house militaries were .I've seen bandied about that there were anywhere between 300000 to several million , so whos right and who is way out in left field . these little niggling questions keep going around in my head .
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Blacknova

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Re: jumpships/numbers
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2014, 12:44:03 AM »
That has never and likely never will be answered.
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Hairbear541

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Re: jumpships/numbers
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2014, 12:54:09 AM »
blacknova thanks for the response . I kinda figured that was an impossible question to get a real fix on . you know all those little niggling questions on the bt universe that go round and round in your head , but have always been kinda blow off in canon and never answered . kinda makes one wonder just what the writers don't want you to know .
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JPArbiter

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Re: jumpships/numbers
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2014, 10:09:38 AM »
there was a "hard" answer at one point in the original aerotech rules.  that was thrown out as being far to limiting to the developers in the future (like most other Lostech garbage) handwave as the number being jumpships officially registered by Comstar's Trafficking authority
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skiltao

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Re: jumpships/numbers
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2014, 01:25:58 PM »
The old numbers worked fine for the old population numbers. The "lostech garbage" hasn't gone away--jumpship fleets are still only a small fraction of pre-Fall fleets, and still only barely enough to keep interstellar civilization going. The only change is that the number of jumpships required for this level of "lostech garbage" is much higher due to the much higher population numbers.

EDIT: the new numbers actually make the "lostech" vibe more intense, because they increased the fleet sizes without making a comparable hundred- or thousand-fold increase to shipyards and ship building. So newly built ships are a smaller percentage of the overall fleet than they were with the old numbers, and the average ship is much older more patched together than they were in the old numbers.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2014, 01:44:03 PM by skiltao »
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JPArbiter

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Re: jumpships/numbers
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2014, 04:41:39 PM »
Quote from: skiltao on August 11, 2014, 01:25:58 PM
The old numbers worked fine for the old population numbers. The "lostech garbage" hasn't gone away--jumpship fleets are still only a small fraction of pre-Fall fleets, and still only barely enough to keep interstellar civilization going. The only change is that the number of jumpships required for this level of "lostech garbage" is much higher due to the much higher population numbers.

EDIT: the new numbers actually make the "lostech" vibe more intense, because they increased the fleet sizes without making a comparable hundred- or thousand-fold increase to shipyards and ship building. So newly built ships are a smaller percentage of the overall fleet than they were with the old numbers, and the average ship is much older more patched together than they were in the old numbers.

but as I said, the numbers were also waived off as not just new ships (though that is a thing too) but just so many ships that refused to register with comstar and were technically "Rogue"
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skiltao

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Re: jumpships/numbers
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2014, 12:09:35 PM »
That does not strike me as a change (ComStar was not an organization ships would register with), and I'm not sure what effect you think it has on my point.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2014, 12:10:54 PM by skiltao »
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JPArbiter

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Re: jumpships/numbers
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2014, 02:38:55 PM »
Comstar set up all sorts of "Authorities" across the Successor states so that they could act as neutral arbiters for trade, investment, etc etc.  See the Mercenary Review Board.

it really was not until Hanse Davion and Katrina Steiner realized that they could function reasonably well without Comstars various services that C*'s grip on the inner sphere was really starting to slip, it was one of the reasons Myndo Waterly rose to power.
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skiltao

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Re: jumpships/numbers
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2014, 06:55:55 PM »
Even with the use of the Black Boxes, Hanse knew his nation couldn't function effectively while under interdiction. That's one of the primary reasons his war ended.

Hanse is not the first ruler to oppose ComStar. (Look for various "secret wars" in House sourcebooks, handbooks, or the ComStar SB.)

ComStar may run the port authority, locally, on various inconsequential worlds. But what need is there for a sphere-wide bureaucracy tracking ships? Any arbitration ComStar might be called on to do in that regard would surely be handled as part of their normal banking duties, or through the MRBC, rather than creating a whole separate bureaucratic arm.

And to reiterate: I don't see what effect you think this has on the point I was making.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2014, 06:56:53 PM by skiltao »
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JPArbiter

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Re: jumpships/numbers
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2014, 08:11:38 PM »
perhaps I do not understand your point then.
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skiltao

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Re: jumpships/numbers
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2014, 04:19:41 PM »
Two points:

Quote from: JPArbiter on August 11, 2014, 10:09:38 AM
as being far to limiting to the developers in the future (like most other Lostech garbage)

1- The old, low number was thrown out because the old, low populations were thrown out. It wasn't thrown out for being "limiting." The "hardness" of numbers is what the writers consider limiting; and 3025 being "hard" or "soft" does not in anyway affect future development of other eras. (Also, 3025's "hardness" was only thrown out because they don't know the era well enough to calculate an appropriate "hard" figure.)

2- The new figure is lostechier garbagier than the old figure and, therefore, either:
   -2a- The new figure is just as (or more!) limiting for future development; or
   -2b- lostech garbage does not actually limit future development.

The rest of your statement--that the original "hard" number has been handwaved into being the number of ships registered with ComStar--is correct.
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