Topic: Union CV Class Dropship (Read 4759 times)

FedComVet · « **on:** April 28, 2010, 05:36:41 PM »

Is it possible to convert a Union class dropship to the CV version (such as the Leopard)? If so how many fighters would it hold? I'm thinking about 24/26 depending on whether there are marines on board, battle taxis or an increase in armaments. It would seem to make a good bridge between the Leopard CV and Vengeance, much like the Titan but more accessible. Also what faction would most likely produce a ship like this? To me the most logical producer would be the Outworlds Alliance, but do they have a Union production line? Finally would it be feasible to mass produce it or would it just be one of the many custom jobs?
If there is anything with regards to the specs in cannon, please let me know.
Thanks.

lrose · « **Reply #1 on:** April 28, 2010, 06:24:56 PM »

It should be fairly easy to build a Union CV- you just replace the Mech Cubes with Aerospace fighter bays- they both weight 150 tons. So you could have 14 fighters on a Union CV. To add more then that you would have to strip off armor, cargo and weapons.

Not sure who would build it, but any nation that can build the Union could produce it- in 3025 that would be the FS, CC, FWL, DC, LC and TC. The OA does not have any dropship production capacity in 3025.

If you just swapped the mech bays for aerospace fighter bays it would be very easy to build- you could build them as quickly as you could a standard Union.

CJvR · « **Reply #2 on:** April 29, 2010, 04:24:19 AM »

Better stay at 12 and use the extra cargo mass for additional fuel.

Rainbow 6 · « **Reply #3 on:** April 29, 2010, 03:40:41 PM »

Quote from: CJvR on April 29, 2010, 04:24:19 AM

Better stay at 12 and use the extra cargo mass for additional fuel.

That makes a lot of sense.

Takiro · « **Reply #4 on:** August 20, 2011, 08:36:54 PM »

Thread Resurrection!

Was just doing a write up on this very subject cause looking back in to the Succession Wars you only have two fighter carriers. The Leopard is too small carrying only
6 fighters and then there is the Vengeance carrying 40 but no middle ground. The Union CV would carry 12 fighters and 2 small craft accommodating nations or units that
deploy aerospace companies of 12 fighters like the Draconis Combine and the Capellan Confederation which calls its aero-formation of 12 a flight. Perhaps the design was part
of the Capellan effort to increase aerospace effectiveness circa 2950. The Union CV was never a true production model but rather a variant based on the needs of a nation/ unit.
While the Draconis Combine picked up the variant incidents like the Great Lee Turkey Shoot did nothing to improve its image and it languished on till the 3050s when newer
designs eliminated its niche.

My design need an extra 100 tons to fit the small craft. I stripped everything I could but had to sacrifice cargo and fuel space.

Oops! Can't attach an HMA file. Hmm, I'll have to clean up a text version.

Dragon Cat · « **Reply #5 on:** August 20, 2011, 08:44:56 PM »

Thought it was 20 for the Vengence...

The middle ground would have been the Titan during the Star League era with 18. As these got destroyed they were never replaced

12 Fighters and 2 Small Craft would be handy I guess but the Union is more a Mech carrier.

Maybe a converted Mule would be a better choice although its a civie design

Takiro · « **Reply #6 on:** August 20, 2011, 08:59:14 PM »

Quote from: Dragon Cat on August 20, 2011, 08:44:56 PM

Thought it was 20 for the Vengence...

Nope carries 40, I looked it up just to be certain.

Quote from: Dragon Cat on August 20, 2011, 08:44:56 PM

The middle ground would have been the Titan during the Star League era with 18. As these got destroyed they were never replaced

Maybe a converted Mule would be a better choice although its a civie design

I guess a few low tech Titans might have survived but that does bring up the second part of my idea. The Federated Suns, Lyran Commonwealth, and Free Worlds League all
use the 18-20 aerospace fighter wing as do most mercenaries and the Periphery. This middle niche would be larger than the one filled by the Union CV and your right it is more
of a traditional Mech carrier. For those reasons there are few Union CVs but what about another CV for a wing? Dragon Cat says the Mule but what would be best for a dropship
conversion to a CV for a wing?

Halvagor · « **Reply #7 on:** August 20, 2011, 09:03:46 PM »

Here's my take on the Union-CV.

Code: [Select]

Class/Model/Name:  Union-CV 
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 2798
Vessel Type:       Spheroid DropShip
Rules:             Level 1, Modified design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              3,600 tons
Length:            82 meters
Power Plant:       Standard
Safe Thrust:       3
Maximum Thrust:    5
Armor Type:        Standard
Armament:          
    6 LRM 20
   12 Large Laser
    6 Autocannon/10
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
==Overview:==
     Weighing in at 3,500 tons, the Union Class DropShip is the standard
medium DropShip throughout the Successor States, small enough to easily
transport a 'Mech raiding party and large enough to support part of.a
full-scale invasion.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  Union-CV 
Mass:              3,600 tons

Equipment:                                                            Mass  
Power Plant, Drive & Control:                                          702.00
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 3
      Maximum Thrust: 5
Structural Integrity: 11                                                79.50
Total Heat Sinks:    150 Single                                         81.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps:                                                     220.00
Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters:                 27.00
Fire Control Computers:                                                   .00
Food & Water:  (119 days supply)                                        22.00
Armor Type:  Standard  (676 total armor pts)                            39.50
                           Standard Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Fore:                                196
   Left/Right Sides:                 180/180
   Aft:                                 120

Cargo:
   Bay 1:  Fighters (6) with 2 doors                                   900.00
   Bay 2:  Fighters (6) with 2 doors                                   900.00
   Bay 3:  Cargo (1) with 2 doors                                      188.00

Escape Pods:  7 (7 tons each)                                           49.00

Crew and Passengers:
      3 Officers (2 minimum)                                            30.00
      6 Crew (2 minimum)                                                42.00
      4 Gunners (4 minimum)                                             28.00
     24 Bay Personnel                                                     .00
Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 LRM 20(48 rounds)        Nose     2(24)  2(24)  2(24)     --   12     28.00
4 Large Laser              Nose     3(32)  3(32)     --     --   32     20.00
2 LRM 20(24 rounds)        FL/R     2(24)  2(24)  2(24)     --   24     48.00
4 Large Laser              FL/R     3(32)  3(32)     --     --   64     40.00
2 Autocannon/10(40 rounds) AL/R     2(20)  2(20)     --     --   12     56.00
2 Autocannon/10(40 rounds) Aft      2(20)  2(20)     --     --    6     28.00
1 Lot Spare Parts (2.00%)                                               72.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                              Heat: 150       3,600.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        231,360,080 C-Bills
Battle Value:      4,540
Cost per BV:       50,960.37
Weapon Value:      5,936 (Ratio = 1.31)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 209;  MRV = 165;  LRV = 20;  ERV = 0
Maintenance:       Maintenance Point Value (MPV) = 22,610
                   (10,062 Structure, 8,870 Life Support, 3,678 Weapons)
                   Support Points (SP) = 21,494  (95% of MPV)
BattleForce2:      MP: 3,  Armor/Structure: 12 / 11
                   Damage PB/M/L: 8/8/2,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: DM;  Point Value: 45
                   Specials: sph, if

The Mule, being nearly three times the size of the Union, is a bit on the large size to carry a mere 18-24 fighters, and would also require a lot of other alterations to make a decent warship, beginning with a military powerplant, and also including better weapons & armor.

What's "best" depends on what you want. Is it just a fighter-carrier, like the Leo-CV, without caring about being a good assault dropship, or are you looking for a true replacement for the Titan, which is also expected to be a good fighter itself?

Here's a 10,000-ton aerodyne dropship I designed some years back, carrying 24 fighters, 6 small craft, heavy armor, and decent firepower. Better at killing transport droppers than true assault ships like the Avenger (that's what its fighters are for).

Code: [Select]

Class/Model/Name:  Fleet Carrier 
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 3025
Vessel Type:       Spheroid DropShip
Rules:             Level 1, Standard design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              10,000 tons
Length:            111 meters
Power Plant:       Standard
Safe Thrust:       4
Maximum Thrust:    6
Armor Type:        Standard
Armament:          
   30 LRM 20
   36 Large Laser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  Fleet Carrier 
Mass:              10,000 tons

Equipment:                                                            Mass  
Power Plant, Drive & Control:                                        2,600.00
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 4
      Maximum Thrust: 6
Structural Integrity: 22                                               440.00
Total Heat Sinks:    468 Single                                        336.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps:                                                     276.00
Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters:                 75.00
Fire Control Computers:                                                   .00
Food & Water:  (62 days supply)                                         57.00
Armor Type:  Standard  (1,352 total armor pts)                          79.00
                           Standard Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Fore:                                385
   Left/Right Sides:                 338/338
   Aft:                                 291

Cargo:
   Bay 1:  Fighters (24) with 4 doors                                3,600.00
   Bay 2:  Small Craft (6) with 2 doors                              1,200.00
   Bay 3:  Infantry (motor) Platoons (2)                                14.00
   Bay 4:  Cargo (1)                                                   200.00

Life Boats:  6 (7 tons each)                                            42.00
Escape Pods:  6 (7 tons each)                                           42.00

Crew and Passengers:
      8 Officers (8 minimum)                                            80.00
     30 Crew (0 minimum)                                               210.00
     11 Gunners (11 minimum)                                            77.00
    134 Bay Personnel                                                     .00
Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6 LRM 20(120 rounds)       Nose     7(72)  7(72)  7(72)     --   36     80.00
6 Large Laser              Nose     5(48)  5(48)     --     --   48     30.00
6 LRM 20(120 rounds)       FL/R     7(72)  7(72)  7(72)     --   72    160.00
6 Large Laser              FL/R     5(48)  5(48)     --     --   96     60.00
4 LRM 20(84 rounds)        AL/R     5(48)  5(48)  5(48)     --   48    108.00
6 Large Laser              AL/R     5(48)  5(48)     --     --   96     60.00
4 LRM 20(84 rounds)        Aft      5(48)  5(48)  5(48)     --   24     54.00
6 Large Laser              Aft      5(48)  5(48)     --     --   48     30.00
1 Lot Spare Parts (0.90%)                                               90.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                              Heat: 468      10,000.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        655,146,240 C-Bills
Battle Value:      13,591
Cost per BV:       48,204.42
Weapon Value:      14,241 (Ratio = 1.05)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 594;  MRV = 468;  LRV = 100;  ERV = 0
Maintenance:       Maintenance Point Value (MPV) = 82,707
                   (49,631 Structure, 22,150 Life Support, 10,926 Weapons)
                   Support Points (SP) = 74,158  (90% of MPV)
BattleForce2:      MP: 4,  Armor/Structure: 23 / 22
                   Damage PB/M/L: 22/22/12,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: DL;  Point Value: 136
                   Specials: sph, if

Takiro · « **Reply #8 on:** August 20, 2011, 09:09:26 PM »

Nice Union CV!

I'm not thinking about a mini-warship like the Titan just merely a fighter carrier that can deliver 18, 20, or 24 fighters/ small craft. Much like the Dione featured in TRO2800 but
I was gonna take an existing design and CV it like the Leopard or the Union now.

lrose · « **Reply #9 on:** August 20, 2011, 09:10:34 PM »

Quote from: Takiro on August 20, 2011, 08:59:14 PM

I guess a few low tech Titans might have survived but that does bring up the second part of my idea. The Federated Suns, Lyran Commonwealth, and Free Worlds League all
use the 18-20 aerospace fighter wing as do most mercenaries and the Periphery. This middle niche would be larger than the one filled by the Union CV and your right it is more
of a traditional Mech carrier. For those reasons there are few Union CVs but what about another CV for a wing? Dragon Cat says the Mule but what would be best for a dropship
conversion to a CV for a wing?

I'd go with a triumph- the obsolete one carries 45 heavy vehicles, 8 light, 4 foot platoons and 749.5 tons of cargo. That equals 5669.5 tons. 20 fighters would use 3000 tons. That leaves 2669.5 tons for improving the weapons and armor of the ship (if desired), extra fuel for the fighters, cargo space for spare parts and better quarters for the pilots and tech crews as well as additional techs. The only downside is that the ship's thrust is a bit low for my taste but even that could be improved with the space that is freed up if you want to make this a major redesign, rather just reconfiguring the cargo space and vehicles bays.

Takiro · « **Reply #10 on:** August 20, 2011, 09:29:46 PM »

Quote from: lrose on August 20, 2011, 09:10:34 PM

I'd go with a triumph- the obsolete one carries 45 heavy vehicles, 8 light, 4 foot platoons and 749.5 tons of cargo. That equals 5669.5 tons. 20 fighters would use 3000 tons.
That leaves 2669.5 tons for improving the weapons and armor of the ship (if desired), extra fuel for the fighters, cargo space for spare parts and better quarters for the pilots
and tech crews as well as additional techs. The only downside is that the ship's thrust is a bit low for my taste but even that could be improved with the space that is freed up
if you want to make this a major redesign, rather just reconfiguring the cargo space and vehicles bays.

Good call I was just looking at her. The Truimph CV could have 18 fighter bays (replacing the 45 heavy vehicles), 6 small craft bays (replacing the 8 Light Vehicles), and I still
have 1,000 tons to play with. Gonna need more doors for launch and recovery. The foot platoons could be expanded on providing an excellent marine base then there is the
fuel space to build on and the cargo. Not looking for a major redesign here just a variant to fill the niche.

Halvagor · « **Reply #11 on:** August 20, 2011, 09:34:07 PM »

Quote from: Takiro on August 20, 2011, 09:09:26 PM

Nice Union CV!

I'm not thinking about a mini-warship like the Titan just merely a fighter carrier that can deliver 18, 20, or 24 fighters/ small craft. Much like the Dione featured in TRO2800 but
I was gonna take an existing design and CV it like the Leopard or the Union now.

Something like this Seeker-CV, then.

Code: [Select]

Class/Model/Name:  Seeker CV 
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 2815
Vessel Type:       Spheroid DropShip
Rules:             Level 1, Standard design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              6,700 tons
Length:            90 meters
Power Plant:       Standard
Safe Thrust:       5
Maximum Thrust:    8
Armor Type:        Standard
Armament:          
    2 PPC
    2 LRM 10
    3 Large Laser
    6 Medium Laser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  Seeker CV 
Mass:              6,700 tons

Equipment:                                                            Mass  
Power Plant, Drive & Control:                                        2,177.50
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 5
      Maximum Thrust: 8
Structural Integrity: 20                                               268.00
Total Heat Sinks:    126 Single                                          5.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps:                                                     397.00
Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters:                 51.00
Fire Control Computers:                                                   .00
Food & Water:  (109 days supply)                                        50.00
Armor Type:  Standard  (1,232 total armor pts)                          72.00
                           Standard Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Fore:                                351
   Left/Right Sides:                 308/308
   Aft:                                 265

Cargo:
   Bay 1:  Fighters (18)                                             2,700.00
   Bay 2:  Cargo (1)                                                   441.50

Escape Pods:  8 (7 tons each)                                           56.00

Crew and Passengers:
      4 Officers (3 minimum)                                            40.00
     13 Crew (1 minimum)                                                91.00
      3 Gunners (3 minimum)                                             21.00
     18 2nd Class Passengers                                           126.00
     18 Steerage Passengers                                             90.00
     36 Bay Personnel                                                     .00
Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 PPC                      FL/R     1(10)  1(10)     --     --   20     14.00
1 LRM 10(12 rounds)        AL/R      1(6)   1(6)   1(6)     --    8     12.00
1 Large Laser              AL/R     2(18)   1(8)     --     --   16     10.00
  2 Medium Laser                                                 12      4.00
1 Large Laser              Aft      2(18)   1(8)     --     --    8      5.00
  2 Medium Laser                                                  6      2.00
1 Lot Spare Parts (1.00%)                                               67.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                               Heat: 70       6,700.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        231,177,968 C-Bills
Battle Value:      4,068
Cost per BV:       56,828.41
Weapon Value:      5,254 (Ratio = 1.29)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 79;  MRV = 40;  LRV = 3;  ERV = 0
Maintenance:       Maintenance Point Value (MPV) = 58,471
                   (30,086 Structure, 26,375 Life Support, 2,010 Weapons)
                   Support Points (SP) = 24,308  (42% of MPV)
BattleForce2:      MP: 5,  Armor/Structure: 21 / 20
                   Damage PB/M/L: 3/2/1,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: DL;  Point Value: 41
                   Specials: sph, if

Nice thing about the (Obsolete) Seeker; engine is already 5/8, which makes it faster than most transport droppers, if not able to run from true assault dropships. I left the weapons the same as the original Seeker, which would at least allow this CV variant to hide easily. Running is still its best option in a fight, after it's pumped out the 18 fighters. I tippled the armor, roughly.

Takiro · « **Reply #12 on:** August 20, 2011, 09:40:14 PM »

Not a bad choice, I'm liking the Seeker CV! Could any Small Craft (minimum 2 be added) to the variant for Davion AeroWings of 20? Ideally 6 Small Craft would make room for Reinforced wings of 24 in a pinch.

Halvagor · « **Reply #13 on:** August 20, 2011, 09:53:30 PM »

Quote from: Takiro on August 20, 2011, 09:40:14 PM

Not a bad choice, I'm liking the Seeker CV! Could any Small Craft (minimum 2 be added) to the variant for Davion AeroWings of 20? Ideally 6 Small Craft would make room for Reinforced wings of 24 in a pinch.

You could do 20 fighters, at the cost of reducing the armor to 33.5 tons, the IS to 10 (the original), and the cargo to 287.5.

But, really, if you want to start throwing Small Craft into the mix, I'd be converting a Dictator. 6 Small Craft, 20 fighters, and 1400 tons of cargo (after extra passengers). This'd be a great way for the Houses to use their old stocks of Dictators.

Code: [Select]

Class/Model/Name:  Dictator CV 
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 2600
Vessel Type:       Spheroid DropShip
Rules:             Level 1, Standard design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              9,000 tons
Length:            122 meters
Power Plant:       Standard
Safe Thrust:       3
Maximum Thrust:    5
Armor Type:        Standard
Armament:          
   12 Medium Laser
    6 LRM 20
   11 Autocannon/10
    2 Large Laser
    4 SRM 6
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  Dictator CV 
Mass:              9,000 tons

Equipment:                                                            Mass  
Power Plant, Drive & Control:                                        1,755.00
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 3
      Maximum Thrust: 5
Structural Integrity: 12                                               216.00
Total Heat Sinks:    109 Single                                           .00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps:                                                     153.00
Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters:                 68.00
Fire Control Computers:                                                   .00
Food & Water:  (127 days supply)                                       100.00
Armor Type:  Standard  (720 total armor pts)                            42.00
                           Standard Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Fore:                                205
   Left/Right Sides:                 182/182
   Aft:                                 151

Cargo:
   Bay 1:  Fighters (12) with 1 door                                 1,800.00
   Bay 2:  Fighters (8) with 1 door                                  1,200.00
   Bay 3:  Small Craft (6) with 1 door                               1,200.00
   Bay 4:  Cargo (1)                                                 1,418.00

Life Boats:  4 (7 tons each)                                            28.00
Escape Pods:  9 (7 tons each)                                           63.00

Crew and Passengers:
      6 Officers (6 minimum)                                            60.00
     27 Crew (0 minimum)                                               189.00
      6 Gunners (6 minimum)                                             42.00
     24 2nd Class Passengers                                           168.00
     24 Steerage Passengers                                            120.00
     70 Bay Personnel                                                     .00
Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Medium Laser             Nose     1(10)     --     --     --    6      2.00
2 LRM 20(48 rounds)        Nose     2(24)  2(24)  2(24)     --   12     28.00
3 Autocannon/10(60 rounds) Nose     3(30)  3(30)     --     --    9     42.00
2 LRM 20(48 rounds)        FL/R     2(24)  2(24)  2(24)     --   24     56.00
1 Large Laser              FL/R     2(18)   1(8)     --     --   16     10.00
  2 Medium Laser                                                 12      4.00
2 Autocannon/10(40 rounds) FL/R     2(20)  2(20)     --     --   12     56.00
2 Medium Laser             AL/R     1(10)     --     --     --   12      4.00
2 SRM 6(120 rounds)        AL/R     2(16)     --     --     --   16     28.00
1 Autocannon/10(20 rounds) AL/R     1(10)  1(10)     --     --    6     28.00
2 Medium Laser             Aft      1(10)     --     --     --    6      2.00
2 Autocannon/10(40 rounds) Aft      2(20)  2(20)     --     --    6     28.00
1 Lot Spare Parts (1.00%)                                               90.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                              Heat: 137       9,000.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        335,204,800 C-Bills
Battle Value:      4,404
Cost per BV:       76,113.71
Weapon Value:      6,338 (Ratio = 1.44)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 212;  MRV = 114;  LRV = 16;  ERV = 0
Maintenance:       Maintenance Point Value (MPV) = 46,715
                   (26,536 Structure, 16,625 Life Support, 3,554 Weapons)
                   Support Points (SP) = 43,554  (93% of MPV)
BattleForce2:      MP: 3,  Armor/Structure: 12 / 12
                   Damage PB/M/L: 10/6/2,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: DL;  Point Value: 44
                   Specials: sph, if

Takiro · « **Reply #14 on:** August 20, 2011, 11:09:20 PM »

Interesting..

OBT Forum

News:

Author Topic: Union CV Class Dropship (Read 4759 times)

FedComVet

Union CV Class Dropship

lrose

Re: Union CV Class Dropship

CJvR

Re: Union CV Class Dropship

Rainbow 6

Re: Union CV Class Dropship

Takiro

Re: Union CV Class Dropship

Dragon Cat

Re: Union CV Class Dropship

Takiro

Re: Union CV Class Dropship

Halvagor

Re: Union CV Class Dropship

Takiro

Re: Union CV Class Dropship

lrose

Re: Union CV Class Dropship

Takiro

Re: Union CV Class Dropship

Halvagor

Re: Union CV Class Dropship

Takiro

Re: Union CV Class Dropship

Halvagor

Re: Union CV Class Dropship

Takiro

Re: Union CV Class Dropship