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Author Topic: Burrock and Star Adder warships (3052)  (Read 14114 times)

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Takiro

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Burrock and Star Adder warships (3052)
« on: January 10, 2016, 02:33:46 PM »

Time to split the baby, or the warships to be precise. Part of my current project is trying to come up with accurate numbers on the existing Burrock and Star Adder fleets in the early 3050s before the Absorption War. Aside from FM Crusader Clans we have had some new canon sources recently that will hopefully add to this discussion. I would also like to speculate, going beyond what we can prove to put together the best possible guess on the Burrock fleet prior to the Absorption.

First off we have this quote from page 113 Field Manual: Crusader Clans in the Star Adder section. To me this would some to indicate that the Adder fleet was in poor shape almost two hundred years ago and Burrock was in better shape.

“Burrock was approached by Star Adder after the Mongoose Absorption (2868+) with a joint exploration plan. saKhan Harian N’Buta recognizing his Clan’s naval weakness after losses versus Mongoose and taking a page from the Nova Cats contacted Burrock Khan Stephen Linn. In exchange for a percentage of any usable discoveries Burrock warships would transport a dozen Adder exploration and colonization teams to various worlds. Eager to expand his Clan’s power and realizing the Burrock’s lacked the Adders technical expertise in exploration Khan Linn accepted. Almost immediately raw materials flowed from new discovers especially in the Paxon system. The moons of the gas giant Krakau held large enough reserves to revitalize Clan naval production.”

Of the twenty-eight warships in 3059 that we know of I can only confirm that two of them were property of their respective Clans. The Constantineau is mentioned in Historical Operation Klondike (page 46) as an Avatar-class serving as the flagship for Star Colonel Qudi Hutchinson during the battle for Dagda. This places that vessel squarely in the Burrock touman prior to the extensive Clan refit of the Avatars which would result in the result in the introduction of the Liberator class in 3024. We also know that the Admiral William S. Preston (Black Lion class Battlecruiser) was a Star Adder warship responsible for the destruction of the Blood Spirit flagship, Carmine Justice, during the Absorption War (Burrock Absorption). 

So twenty-six more decisions to make cause with all honesty, I am not aware of any other sources that definitively state one way or another. Taking my best guess with the available information I would say that four warships are Star Adder possessions. The Nygaard (Sovetskii Soyuz class Heavy Cruiser) is the Clan flagship and based on the name as well as this honored position likely long held it is my opinion that it is an Adder warship as of 3052. The Black Adder (Carrack class Transport), the Vicious Fang and the Arcadian Asp (both Fredasa class Corvettes) are in my opinion both Star Adder vessels. They are all relatively small and could have all been newly built to restore some of the lost naval strength of the Adders following the Mongoose absorption. Their names and this speculation lead me to make that conclusion.

For Burrock, I can only make two such claims. The Renown (Potemkin class Troop Cruiser) based on immense transport capability something which the Adders lack and the way the ship was placed in mothballs immediately after the Absorption War lead me to think that it was a Burrock vessel. I am a lot less sure of the Divine Conquest (Sovetskii Soyuz class Heavy Cruiser) but because of the difference in names between it and the Nygaard this split seems fair to me.

Like the Divine Conquest decision above the next twenty are difficult splits to make. All I have to go on is their names and perhaps the fact they were mothballed which indicates a lesser Burrock heritage or something far more practical (battle damage or overall better condition). Battleships are the only vessels I would split based on their size and average per Clan which indicates that one would be the right number for both Burrock and Star Adder prior to the Absorption. Does that mean that the Sovereign Right (McKenna clas Battleship) is a Burrock ship based on its age and the Absolute Truth (Nightlord class Battleship) is a Star Adder ship built to replace a Mongoose loss?
 
The Ares’s Might and Stellar Serpent (Aegis class Heavy Cruisers) I would likely split with the former going to the Burrocks and the later going to the Adders based solely on their names. The Cho Polu and Pompeii (Volga class Transports) could be split but given their similar names and transport capabilities they might just be Burrock ships. The Hagar, Yodan, Warlock, and Camerons Flame (Lola III class Destroyers) seem to be a 3 to 1 difference given their names.  The Eagle and the Tehuantepec (Essex class Destroyers) are separated by their names as well as the fact that the first was still active after the Absorption War and the other was mothballed. Only the Star Fire because of its name seems to be a Star Adder York class Destroyer/Carrier while the Exodus Avenger, Exodus Crusader, Exodus Ranger, and Exodus Sentinel could all be Burrock. I’d be tempted to say the Centaur and the Pegasus (Vincent Mk42 class Corvettes) were Hell’s Horse warships but could they be Burrock while the Vritra is a Star Adder?

I would love to hear what you think folks. Thanks for any input!
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IntermittentCoherence

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Re: Burrock and Star Adder warships (3052)
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2016, 01:55:10 AM »

Vritra is almost certainly a Star Adder name. It has the snake motif.

The Divine Conquest, Absolute Truth and Sovereign Right all seem to stem from the same naming convention, but as to whether Star Adder or Burrock, I'm not sure. If you were to ask me, they sound like Comstar names. Or whomever of the Clans leans towards religion. Like the Cloud Cobras.
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Takiro

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Re: Burrock and Star Adder warships (3052)
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2016, 11:34:54 AM »

First off welcome to the forums. Glad to have you on board.

Hard to argue with your reasoning on naming conventions. The Vritra I completely agree with you - almost certainly Star Adder. The Divine Conquest, Absolute Truth and Sovereign Right do sound somewhat similar but I decided that it was only fair to split the Battleships. One going to Burrock and the other to Star Adder. Since the original post someone (Zellbrigen) over on CBT forums pointed out that one of my assumptions was incorrect so I switched the Sovereign Right (McKenna class Battleship) to the Adders and the Absolute Truth (Nightlord class Battleship) to Burrock. Plus the Sovereign Right reminds me of an old British warship and hence the SLDF. The other two (Divine Conquest and Absolute Truth) are a little more generic to me but it is hard to say. Very close, currently I have the Divine Conquest and Absolute Truth as Burrock ships.
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IntermittentCoherence

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Re: Burrock and Star Adder warships (3052)
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2016, 04:19:00 AM »

There isn't really a hard and fast rule that Cruisers and heavier warships should be evenly distributed, though. There might have been at the beginning, but over the centuries of internecine feuding and trading, some Clans just have smaller warships on average.
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Takiro

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Re: Burrock and Star Adder warships (3052)
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2016, 04:15:05 PM »

You are correct, there is no rule that heavier warships should be distributed evenly. A lot can happen with the Clans and their constant trails. Isorla here and Trail of Possession there. When I began this project giving the Adders and the Burrocks a Battleship each seemed to be only fair but since then certain evidence has come to light.

Zellrigen over on the BattleTech Forums pointed out this quote from Field Manual Crusader Clans page 118 under Naval Assets. "The Star Adders have always enjoyed a surplus of Dropships, JumpShips, and WarShips. Battlefield losses to Clan Mongoose during the Golden Century, however, forced the Adders to mothball much of that surplus. For more than a century and a half, the Adders simply have not possessed enough shipyards and drydocks to maintain their entire fleet."

And we know that the Nightlord class Battleship was not introduced until 2932 by Clan Snow Raven. So why would the Star Adders with a surplus of Warships order a new Battleship when their yard capacity is already stretched? I do not think they would. Hence I assigned the Warship to the Burrocks.
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Dragon Cat

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Re: Burrock and Star Adder warships (3052)
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2016, 06:05:00 PM »

I'd agree the Nightlord would be Burrocks they were looking to stay ahead of the curve in status and might suggesting they'd want the Clans newest toy

I'll have to look in Revival Trials I'm not sure if there's any tidbits of info but you never know
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Really, as long as there is an unbroken line of people calling themselves "Clan Nova Cat," it doesn't really matter to me if they're still using Iron Wombs or not. They may be dead as a faction, but as a people they still exist. It's not uncommon in the real world, after all.

Takiro

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Re: Burrock and Star Adder warships (3052)
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2016, 06:36:53 PM »

Thanks Dragon Cat, any input would be helpful.

The Battleship Split is part of a greater question for me right now. On the BattleTech forum Wolfcannon asserted that each Clan had 14-15 warship prior to the Absorption. This could be accomplished by taking a single Lola III and the two Volgas from the Burrock column to assign to the Adders.

Now my early findings and division had the Burrocks at 17-18 warships and the Adders at 11-12 which suggested a 3 to 2 advantage for the Clan being absorbed. That leads to its own question. Which do you find more plausible? Two evenly matched fleets (14-15 warships) or the Burrock Naval Edge (their 17-18 vs 11-12)?
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Dragon Cat

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Re: Burrock and Star Adder warships (3052)
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2016, 08:41:41 PM »

Clan bidding process means that the WarShips were possibly never used during the battles - WarShips are often the first thing to be dropped from such a thing.

At the same time however due to the allegations against the Burrocks that may have been unlikely.  it may have been that the Adders were just better with WarShips...

I'd completely discount any transport ships as combat assets, they could be run by traders and solamha warriors, it's unlikely they'd engage in fleet actions which might level the field if the Burrocks have more transports then the WarShip number would be more level.
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My stuff, and my AU timeline follow link and enjoy

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Really, as long as there is an unbroken line of people calling themselves "Clan Nova Cat," it doesn't really matter to me if they're still using Iron Wombs or not. They may be dead as a faction, but as a people they still exist. It's not uncommon in the real world, after all.

IntermittentCoherence

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Re: Burrock and Star Adder warships (3052)
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2016, 06:59:08 AM »

Good point. Most of the Burrocks were looking to come in quietly, so that would tend to minimize the size of engagements.
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