OBT Forum

General BattleTech => Canon Inspired => Historicals => Topic started by: muttley on March 23, 2010, 10:24:24 PM

Title: So where do Gunslingers come from...
Post by: muttley on March 23, 2010, 10:24:24 PM
//Intercepted Message- SLS Joseph John Rochefort//

5 FEB 2777
Military Academy of Aphros, Mars, Empire of Amaris

My Liege,

 I beg to report that Mission #AE-35 has been completed.  The 406th Battle Regiment has been eradicated.  All deceased personnel have been matched to the rosters in our possession.  Attempts to persuade personnel to cooperate were unsuccessful.

I regret to inform you that the 23rd Republican Dragoons have been rendered combat ineffective as a result of this mission.  As per standing order 127A, the command staff have been publicly executed for their crimes against the Empire.

Paul von Strang
Colonel, 5th Amaris Dragoons

//Message Ends//

Analysis:
Sir,
Apparently the Republican forces penetrated the Gunslinger's cover.  While the Council Lords never knew of the 406th's true nature, their penetration of the SLDF must have been to the SANDBOX level at least.  We have verified the rosters attached to this report and confirm the DNA profiles for all 4 members of the Regimental Command Lance, 52 of 54 Students and 51 of 54 Gunslinger Instructors.  The use of tactical nuclear weapons to destroy the Regiment and surviving students from Aphros and WAM lead us to assess the survival of any members of the Regiment as LOW.//



Notes:
The 406th Battle Regiment was a unique unit; its true nature was hidden by the witholding of the Royal title.  This led the Council Lords and their intelligence agencies to assess the Regiment as being composed of colonial personnel and technology.  Its charter was to train the Gunslingers.  Each student was paired with an instructor until graduation.  Since each student was already a veteran (especially once the Periphery rebellion began) this meant that an elite Regiment was available at all times within the Terran System.  Sufficient DropShips were maintained to allow this unit to react quickly to any threat within the System.  While not as skilled overall as the Royal Black Watch, the 406th was sufficiently trained and equipped to provide a credible threat to a force outnumbering it 6 to 1.

The SLS Joseph John Rochefort is a Bug Eye class vessel that managed to escape detection for four months after the Coup, fleeing to the Ross 248 Fleet Base after its detection.

Comment from Takiro:  For peer review which I would encourage you can post this SL era unit in Alternate Eras if you intend to follow canon time line for the discussion.
Title: Re: So where do Gunslingers come from...
Post by: Takiro on March 23, 2010, 10:28:42 PM
Glad to see your posting your big idea. I'd love to hear some other opinions. ;)
Title: Re: So where do Gunslingers come from...
Post by: muttley on March 23, 2010, 10:41:57 PM
I've always laughed at the SF and other high-speed units that claim to want secrecy but walk around with logo'd ball caps even in war zones. 
The best way to hide is to sound boring for example-the 59th Quartermaster Company.  Who'd suspect a unit like that of being trained to fast rope from a Chinook, kick in doors, and conduct raids in urban environments to secure high-value targets?
Title: Re: So where do Gunslingers come from...
Post by: Ice Hellion on March 24, 2010, 06:53:55 PM
This 406th is a training regiment, quiaff?
Title: Re: So where do Gunslingers come from...
Post by: muttley on March 24, 2010, 08:46:46 PM
Aff.  But a very dangerous one.  58 of 112 personnel were already Gunslingers.  The rest were considered good enough to train to be gunslingers.
Title: Re: So where do Gunslingers come from...
Post by: Ice Hellion on March 25, 2010, 04:24:49 PM
Do we have any info on the number of Gunslingers trained at the same time?
Where did you get your teacher-student idea?
Title: Re: So where do Gunslingers come from...
Post by: Hessian on March 27, 2010, 03:52:39 PM
Interesting idea. Certainly a realistic scenario.

Just my two € cents.

Ciao
Hessian
Title: Re: So where do Gunslingers come from...
Post by: muttley on March 27, 2010, 04:06:57 PM
@Ice Hellion from the SL Sourcebook p59:

Deep within the Hegemony military, certain MechWarriors
were undergoing extensive retraining as part of the ACMS
(Advanced Combat and Maneuvering Skills) Project. From ancient
Oriental martial philosophies to advanced neural-thought
technology, these warriors relearned almost everything about
piloting a BattieMech. The 52 warriors in the first graduating class
became the SLDF's champions.

<snipped>

Realizing that he could not prevent duels, the First Lord tried
another tack. He began to send envoys to Combine bases, not to
challenge their champions but to offer them commissions in the
SLDF. There was little the outraged Coordinator Urizen could do
about it, either. As the First Lord expected, only a few champion
Kurita MechWarriors wanted to join the SLDF, but those who did
became instructors in the Regular Army's expanded ACMS
program. Renamed the "Gunslinger Program," the intensive
training regimen eventually became an important part of the
Military Academy of Aphros. Only the Academy's most skilled
MechWarrior graduates won spots in the Gunslinger Program . To
wear the crossed six-shooters on their uniforms became a great
honor among Star League MechWarriors.
Title: Re: So where do Gunslingers come from...
Post by: muttley on March 27, 2010, 04:15:26 PM
Obviously you can't have quantity to build the quality of the Gunslingers...

I got the mentor/trainer student idea from the SL Sourcebook with the defecting Kuritans... and a healthy dose of Mr Miyagi.  Blacktiger's mentioned several times the Regimental Gunslinger is the holder of the unit's honor- this speaks to the Kuritan/Miyagi code of a Bushido tempered with chivalry.

It looks like the lieutenants of the 'Mech units- already having worked their way up from Sergeant (their rank after graduating from the military academies) would be evaluated during their first assignments.  The best would be watched then sent to the program.  Undoubtedly not everyone completed the program.  Exceptional personnel could be selected early.  General Kerensky went right after he finished in the Nagelring (SL SB p68). 
Title: Re: So where do Gunslingers come from...
Post by: Ice Hellion on March 28, 2010, 03:11:23 AM
It makes sense.
Title: Re: So where do Gunslingers come from...
Post by: muttley on April 05, 2010, 11:26:27 PM
Right so here's the next logical question-  Where do new Gunslingers come from?

The 406th is gone; the Regimental Gunslingers must have been heavily attritted; and some percentage of them must have left with Kerensky's traitors.

So how is The Last Cameron getting Gunslingers?
Title: Re: So where do Gunslingers come from...
Post by: Ice Hellion on April 06, 2010, 03:16:06 PM
Creating a new training unit? Or a specialised class?
After all, they should have enough veterans available for that.
Title: Re: So where do Gunslingers come from...
Post by: muttley on April 06, 2010, 11:14:23 PM
I don't know.  In the latest Black tiger's- the regimental CO is appointing one.  This pushes the gunslinger more to the keeper of the regimental honor than a supremely skilled duelist.
Title: Re: So where do Gunslingers come from...
Post by: Ice Hellion on April 07, 2010, 04:54:47 PM
I gave it a second thought today.
Keep it in the regiment as with the veterans, you don't need for now new schools for that or just drop it as hidden warfare is not really a thing of the foreseeable future.
Title: Re: So where do Gunslingers come from...
Post by: muttley on April 07, 2010, 11:52:38 PM
Good point.  Warfare has changed after the Amaris Civil War.
Title: Re: So where do Gunslingers come from...
Post by: Ice Hellion on April 08, 2010, 04:52:26 PM
But if you make them the keeper of the regimental honour, you could use them for "competitions" and duels against other honourable units (I know this sounds like the Clans but I am an Ice Hellion  8)).
Title: Re: So where do Gunslingers come from...
Post by: muttley on April 09, 2010, 04:05:14 PM
True- it would make it interesting if the concept had survived to the Clan Invasion
Title: Re: So where do Gunslingers come from...
Post by: Takiro on April 09, 2010, 09:27:32 PM
I tend to believe that each Star League unit had a champion Gunslinger who would square off against any duelist which challenged his regiment. Information on General Kerensky from his bio and the SLSB lead me to this conclusion.

Now canon wise there were two institutions which served as Gunslinger academies. Aphros on Venus and the War Academy on Mars. I'll have to look at the details for the SLDF. For the Terrans I believe I solely gave this assignment to Mars.
Title: Re: So where do Gunslingers come from...
Post by: muttley on April 10, 2010, 10:55:51 AM
Yup- the question is how Sinclair rebuilt the capability to train the Gunslingers.   

Wonder if more Gunslingers stayed or went on the Exodus?  I bet they also suffered disproportionate casualties during the War.
Title: Re: So where do Gunslingers come from...
Post by: Takiro on April 10, 2010, 11:37:35 AM
Hard to say but you could come up with a gap filling Gunslinger Program that existed during the Amaris Coup. Something makeshift that was setup during the Hegemony Campaign that is if you prioritize such training. It may have been deemed non essential to the recapture of Terra.
Title: Re: So where do Gunslingers come from...
Post by: muttley on April 10, 2010, 07:15:55 PM
Nonessential to the main forces...  but the force protecting the Last Cameron would be doing everything possible to be as lethal as possible... 

The "War Academy of Apollo"?   Some sort of program near one of the Loyalist Training Camps...  hmmm... theres a story there.
Title: Re: So where do Gunslingers come from...
Post by: Takiro on April 10, 2010, 09:44:36 PM
Now you've got something Mutt.

The War Academy of Apollo has a certain ring to it even if it was an unofficial designation. Perhaps the SLDF renamed the Apollo Military Institute which was the Rim Worlds premier military academy (Periphery SB 1st Edition page 54) and turned it into the Provisional Military University of the Star League during the Coup.

You have a point about eventually restoring the Black Watch to protect the Last Cameron but that wasn't a sure thing. Is that possibility enough to justify the expense? I could see injured veterans serving as instructors but what is the reason.
Title: Re: So where do Gunslingers come from...
Post by: muttley on April 10, 2010, 11:28:28 PM
What about Kerensky's bodyguards?  Some sort of unit had to protect the SLDF High Command- potentially one as lethal as the Black Watch.
Title: Re: So where do Gunslingers come from...
Post by: Ice Hellion on April 11, 2010, 01:10:00 PM
Gunslingers served as duelists in the Hidden Wars, I don't think the Coup would have been the perfect place/time to train such high potential fighters.
I would have focused on producing more above average warriors rather a few elite ones (that can be nuked or destroyed while trying to get on planet).
Title: Re: So where do Gunslingers come from...
Post by: blacktigeractual on April 11, 2010, 04:28:10 PM
I don't know.  In the latest Black tiger's- the regimental CO is appointing one.  This pushes the gunslinger more to the keeper of the regimental honor than a supremely skilled duelist.
Gracie already had her six guns, the regimental gunslinger was an Honor Title (and also a way of denoting B's status as a teacher in someways, just like Don Roberto, his predecessor was.), but the Tigers have several who went through the training, of those a few Gracie, B, and a couple of others passed.
Title: Re: So where do Gunslingers come from...
Post by: muttley on April 12, 2010, 05:39:16 PM
Aha- interesting news.

THANKS!
Title: Re: So where do Gunslingers come from...
Post by: Serack on April 13, 2010, 11:21:15 AM
not all the Gunslinger's left in the exodus, (Blue Star Irregulars anyone)etc... :)
Title: Re: So where do Gunslingers come from...
Post by: muttley on April 13, 2010, 02:16:18 PM
True- but the organized, systematic training program was wiped out on Mars.   The question is will the Republic continue the process, and if so how & where.

Ironic if the War Academy of Apollo becomes the center of gunslinger training...
Title: Re: So where do Gunslingers come from...
Post by: Ice Hellion on April 14, 2010, 11:16:21 AM
not all the Gunslinger's left in the exodus, (Blue Star Irregulars anyone)etc... :)

They had the Blue Star but I don't remember this made them Gunslingers.
Title: Re: So where do Gunslingers come from...
Post by: muttley on April 14, 2010, 07:16:44 PM
Well in this universe, a lot of them probably stayed with the units making up the Last Cameron's forces...

but new ones?

Apprenticing to the Regimental Gunslinger (Jedi Padawan/Mr Miyagi)
Codified schooling (War Academy of Mars)

or go Kuritan/Highlander/Clanner- kill the old one & take his title ;)
Title: Re: So where do Gunslingers come from...
Post by: Serack on May 08, 2010, 09:21:27 AM
My opinion,,, that this was so sucessful that they would almost have to restart the program. There were alot
of veteran,elite pilots that were wounded or burnt out from combat. They could be a start of a new Trainer core unit. :)
Title: Re: So where do Gunslingers come from...
Post by: Takiro on May 08, 2010, 09:06:11 PM
Just looking over Fanbook 1 - Field Manual Terran Republic 2785 once again. There are several manages of the Gunslinger Program and its reestablishment by the Republic. Here are some mentions of the Advanced Combat Maneuvering School (ACMS) or Gunslinger Training in the book.

PDF page 87
The TRAS has however designated the War Academy of Mars (WAM) the headquarters of the Gunslinger Program which means that the school will train the very best Mechwarriors. Graduates will likely be assigned high profile jobs in the Terran military thanks to the Academy’s continuing reputation.

PDF page 94
It is needless to say that postings in the Terran Guard are highly sought after not only for the prestige of such an assignment but for the additional experience that can be gained from specialized training. This training ranges from Gunslinger courses to advanced strategic operations exercises given at Republican military academies within the Terran Province. Despite the organizations young age officers from the Guard have already gone onto high positions within the TRAS a trend that is likely to continue.

PDF page 102
The Dieron Borderers are primarily composed of the heaviest military vehicles due in large part to their Star League predecessors. Every member of Dragonsbane, as they are nicknamed, has a solid grasp of Kurita tactics and strategy. Of all the Borderers they have the most Gunslinger trained personnel within their units. Their daily training continues to focus on the warriors of the Dragon and the coming conflict with the Draconis Combine. During parade functions, a rarity these days, the Borderers of Dieron use a gold and white base color scheme to decorate their equipment.

PDF page 116
As with the Black Watch all Fusilier Mechwarriors must be a graduate of the Gunslinger training program. This has only recently been accomplished with the reestablishment of the Terran Gunslinger Program.

So for the Terran Republic we already have a reestablished Gunslinger system headquartered at Mars. The Terran Guard make extensive use of the training offered while the Dieron Borderers have the most Gunslinger trained personnel within their units. That is impressive since all three Mech regiments of Sinclair Fusiliers are Gunslingers.

This covers the restoration of the program following Operation Liberation circa 2780. However that still gives Muttley some 13 years to play with for the War Academy of Apollo. Not a bad idea to cover the inter war years. Kerensky liberated the Rim in 2767 so you could start there for the date. However they'd face many challenges. Native opposition from the people of the Rim, Commonwealth invaders, and Draconis Ronin.
Title: Re: So where do Gunslingers come from...
Post by: Rainbow 6 on May 09, 2010, 06:10:22 AM
Quick question, do the other great houses have training programs along the lines of the TRAF's gunslingers?
Title: Re: So where do Gunslingers come from...
Post by: Takiro on May 09, 2010, 09:16:29 AM
I would imagine so. In the aerospace field there was an award I keep forgetting that the FWLM began and the SLDF took over. Also ask yourself how did the Ronin become so skilled?
Title: Re: So where do Gunslingers come from...
Post by: muttley on May 09, 2010, 12:29:22 PM
<Mr Burns> Excellent!

Now I need my muse to hit me again.
Title: Re: So where do Gunslingers come from...
Post by: Ice Hellion on May 09, 2010, 04:24:54 PM
The Ronins inspired the Gunslingers and I remember something about a Kuritan Top Gun (but I don't remember the time).
Title: Re: So where do Gunslingers come from...
Post by: Rainbow 6 on May 09, 2010, 04:39:39 PM
Kensii Kamai(sp)
Title: Re: So where do Gunslingers come from...
Post by: Ice Hellion on May 10, 2010, 03:26:02 PM
That's the name.
Title: Re: So where do Gunslingers come from...
Post by: Takiro on May 10, 2010, 05:28:11 PM
The Nova Squadron School of Combat (and the quote) come from Technical Readout: 3050 Upgrade page 238 under the Gotha class Aerospace Fighter.

Quote
Lost in the annals of history, the Nova Squadron School of Combat—a lesser-known “top gun” program for FWL pilots before the SLDF adopted it—churned out less than five hundred “elite of the elites” during its heyday. Even after the SLDF began its own Supernova program, the League’s NSSOC graduates could still out-fly and outfight any other ASF pilot throughout the first two Succession Wars. With the demise of fleet engagements and aerospace assets after the Second Succession War, the NSSOC became little more than a flying social club, at times putting even Lyran social generals to shame.

Thanks to Ice Hellion we modeled the Kensai Kami after the Star League Gunslinger Program. It could certainly have been the source of inspiration for the Dragon. Fluff in FM DC (pg 31) states that Theodore Kurita re-established it on Bicester. While that implied it could have been located elsewhere before hand we are locating our 2785 version there as well.