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Author Topic: Q&A: "What do I do with this unit?"  (Read 52451 times)

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Shengli Sheng

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Q&A: "What do I do with this unit?"
« on: March 15, 2011, 10:09:23 PM »

That's right, you heard me.  In a general attempt to help players with less experience (or more, even) understand their roles on the playing table better, I will be taking all comers with my expertise on the specific roles of all your units.  Hopefully this should help me as well, since I'll be accepting your opinions, too!

Just give me a list of 'Mechs, vehicles, or whatever else you have questions with, and I'll try to explain to you what you need to be doing with that unit to WIN BATTLES AND SERVE THE GREATER HUMANITY.
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Re: Q&A: "What do I do with this unit?"
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2011, 10:28:14 PM »

Okay then! I'd like to know how to properly play my Ice Cream Marauder out in the field. Not only to benefit my own units but as well as as my comrades! 
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Shengli Sheng

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Re: Q&A: "What do I do with this unit?"
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2011, 12:15:02 AM »

Excellent, this should be good practice for me.

Advice for Tako-Nu's Stand-Off Lance, Marauder MAD-9S


Where to place it on the map before the first initiative roll
If the enemy is starting closer to the middle of the battlefield: Find a nice high place for it to stand on.  If the hex has woods on it, even better.  All you need to do is make sure the Ice Cream Marauder has a nice, clear view of the battlefield in front of it.

If the enemy is starting on the opposite end of the battlefield: Place yourself where there's a passageway of flower patch hex...er, I mean, find a group of clear hexes to run through so that you can get to a good sniping spot (specifically, a nice high spot with woods in it like I mentioned) as soon as possible.  The sooner you can get your Marauder to that spot, the more damage you can do, which leads me to...

General Individual Strategy
Step 1: Are you in your sniping spot?  Meaning, are you between 10-14 hexes away from a target and there aren't many woods (or buildings) in the way?
No?  Then RUN, DO NOT WALK, to your sniping spot.  Don't know what your sniping spot is?  Look back at my description at the top of this post.
Yes?  Good.  Either way, move on to Step 2.

Step 2: Look at your heat.
Is it 0?  Good.  Fire both your cone dispensers and your sprinkle gun--I mean, fire both your ER PPCs and your LB 10-X AC at the poor schmuck who decided to move slowly this turn, usually something with a 1- or 0-mod movement die on it.  I want you to practice this exercise: shout out loud at the top of your lungs, "I'M GOING TO LIGHT UP THIS BITCH-ASS RIFLEMAN LIKE HE WAS A PILE OF TINDER, SO THAT I CAN SURVIVE THIS WINTER NIGHT!"  This will let people know you're excited to play the game, as well as let them know who you're shooting at.  If they want you to shoot something different, they'll talk it over with you.
Is it 2 or 4?  Still okay, avoid firing your LB 10-X AC if you were running this turn.
Is it 6 or 8?  Whoa there, time to cut back on the heat.  Do yourself a favor and only fire 1 ER PPC and 1 LB 10-X AC this turn to cool off.  If you stood still this turn, it's also okay to fire 1 ER Medium Laser as well.  8 Heat is kind of an annoying heat level to be at since you're throwing your aim off by +1.

Step 3: Did you fire the LB 10-X AC this turn?
Yes?  On the Ice Cream Marauder's record sheet, go to your "Critical Hit Table" and look at the Left Torso.  Put a little tiny dot next to the entry that says "3. Ammo (LB 10-X) 10".  That or a tally mark.  You're out of LB 10-X slug ammo when you've marked 10 dots.  (At least that's the way I do it.)

Step 4: Adding up heat
Did you stand still this turn? +0
Did you walk around or turn in place this turn? (this does not mean twisting your torso) +1
Did you run (not walk) this turn? +2
Did you fire an ER PPC this turn? +15
Did you fire another ER PPC this turn? +15
Did you fire your LB 10-X AC this turn in either mode? +2
Now take all of that and subtract it by 28. (only 26 if someone shot one of your Double Heat Sinks, or only 16 if you're missing either your Right or Left Torso)
Did you get a positive number?  Add it to whatever heat you had.
Did you get a negative number?  Take it off of whatever heat you had, to a minimum of 0.

EDIT: If you end up with a final heat of 5 or more, you're slowed down by 1 next turn.  So you'd have 3 points for walking or 5 points for running next turn if you're that hot, as opposed to 4 walk and 6 run.

Step 5: Is he dead?
Yes?  Nice.  Go back to Step 1 next turn.
Almost?  Cool.  Go back to Step 1, but when you fire your LB 10-X AC next turn, be sure to to shout "Oh, and I'm firing cluster" after you call out that bitch-ass Rifleman for execution.  See me for details if you don't remember what Cluster ammo does.
No?  Dang.  Still, it's okay, because no matter where he goes next turn, you'll be able to whack him thanks to your weapons' versatile ranges.  Go back to Step 1.


THE BIGGER PICTURE
The above strategy can pretty much be used for your entire Stand-Off Lance, with the exception that your Archer can do some extra special attacks with its LRM launchers.  I'll explain those in a different post.

Your Marauder, Archer, Pillager, and Huron Warrior are snipers.  The sooner you get them to a place where they can park 'n bark, the more damage they do, and the more you will be helping your teammates.  Choosing your targets will take practice, but what you need to do is shoot the enemies that look like they'll cause trouble if they get closer as soon as possible.  Usually this will be big, bad assault 'Mechs with huge miniatures on the table.  Leave the small runts to me so I can gobble them up with my hunter-killers.

Special Situations and Equipment for the Ice Cream Marauder
Is your target 4 or less hexes away from you? -- A couple of things come into play for you now.  You shouldn't fire both ER PPCs anymore, instead fire 1 ER PPC, 2 ER Medium Lasers (for 5 heat each), and your LB 10-X AC.  Also, if your target is in woods at that range, tell everybody before anybody starts shooting that "This bitch-ass Rifleman is my Beagle target" and then your Beagle Active Probe will take -1 off the woods modifier, essentially turning his heavy woods into light woods, or his light woods INTO A FLOWER PATCH HEX!

Aircraft and VTOLs (helicopters, usually represented by those 4-sided dice on our table) -- Fire your LB 10-X AC in Cluster mode for that delicious -3 modifier to your to-hit number.  For your ER PPCs, only fire one if you need more than a 9 to hit with them.

Infantry 1 to 3 hexes away from you -- You have a Flamer!  Make some deep-fried ice cream, doing 4 dice of damage to them if you hit!


And thaaaat's that!  Got any more questions?  I hope my answers got you to think about more questions, because that's how learning and exchanging ideas works!
« Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 01:12:47 AM by Shengli Sheng »
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Re: Q&A: "What do I do with this unit?"
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2011, 01:20:25 AM »

I'm fixing up my recently acquired Goliath-5D. It gets to hang out with a Charger-1A1 with heavy armor (who will charge a lot), a Victor-11D (which will skirmish with it's dual ERLLs and RAC-5) and Hot Rod's Atlas O'Doom (which will snipe with the dual ERLL+GR combo until it's time to bring in the 5 Streak-4s and MPLs).

How would you recommend I use the Goliath to complement this force?
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Shengli Sheng

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Re: Q&A: "What do I do with this unit?"
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2011, 03:52:41 AM »

Ooh, that's quite the unorthodox lance you've got.  I hope I'm up to the challenge!

Your Charger has an inherent disadvantage in that it doesn't get to do its damage until the Physical Attack Phase.  This is something you will need to cover for, and as I pull out my copy of TacOps, here's how I think your GOL-5D can do its best work--

Set up your lance like this, front to back: Goliath, Atlas, Victor, Charger.  If you don't have enough room, set up the Victor on either side of the Atlas.  If you have all clear hexes in front of you, by the end of your movement phase the Charger should end up in the hex directly behind your Goliath, with the other two not far behind.

From there, you have two choices next turn: If you feel you need to take the incoming enemy fire off of your teammates, Sprint (movement mode) the Charger up front so that he's sticking out like a sore thumb.  If not, keep the Goliath as the vanguard because it's not a very inviting target due to having a Standard Fusion Engine and the quad bonus to PSRs.  The Charger is like a battering ram that you keep concealed in your ranks like a dagger.  Slow down the Charger as necessary to stay in formation (or to rear up for enough distance to charge), as that combat mass is what makes your "Roll Over 'Em" lance intimidating.

Now here's the amazing part--if you've been keeping your Charger behind your Goliath and the time has come to let loose with the clashing of Star-League-Standard-grade-armored 'Mech bodies against each other, it is your Goliath's turn to shine.  The Shielding movement mode is amazing -- as long as it's using only Walking MP, you can basically act like an intervening Heavy Woods hex against everything shooting through you at the Charger.  You can still make all Weapon and Physical attacks AS NORMAL.  There's no reason not to use Shielding instead of Walking if you're in formation.

With your Charger about to do its thing in the hex directly in front of an enemy unit, the Goliath should be moving or sidestepping into a hex directly to the Charger's front-left or front-right, and letting fly with those TarComp'd RAC and lasers right alongside it.  If you're more worried about back shots from skirmishing units, hanging back or letting the Victor and Atlas take care of it will be just fine.  Essentially, once everyone's all mixed up together in melee, your Goliath's goal is to be setting up the wrestling ring in which your Charger becomes the star of the show.  Remember that you can set up the Shielding before you set up the Charge (just shield the hex where the Charger's going to be if you're asked).

Conclusion: Goliath should run vanguard at least in front of the Atlas if not the Charger.

Special Situations
Fast targets: When you're in the thick of it and there's a quick close-range cavalry 'Mech you'd really like dead, Overwatch mode with a TarComp 'Mech is DEADLY, DEADLY, DEADLY against them.  Aim for a single location next turn and watch it drop like a rock.

Side Note: Cool thing you can do with a quad!  If you've gotten your RAC jammed or a side torso blown off and you really just aren't feelin' it with the rest of your weapons...you can enter the Physical Defense movement mode for a turn.  It's pretty costly, requiring you to give up both your movement and weapons for that turn, but then on the Physical Attack phase, you can spend Walking MP to back up on (or sidestep next to) somebody and perform a Double Donkey Kick on them!  Useful in the rare situation that you still have lots of Front armor but not many weapons.  You could even start in woods and pop out of them like some odd alien butt-monster!
« Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 04:09:30 AM by Shengli Sheng »
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Re: Q&A: "What do I do with this unit?"
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2011, 08:53:38 AM »

Stock Spartan, Black Knight, Shootist and Excalibur

Make it work!
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Shengli Sheng

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Re: Q&A: "What do I do with this unit?"
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2011, 01:15:09 AM »

Pulling some 'Mechs out of the Cache, eh?  I can work with that.

I'm going to categorize your 'Mechs in two different ways, through potential and endurance.  Potential signifies how amazing the unit can be when given optimal conditions, while endurance represents how long those optimal conditions usually last.

EXC-B2 Excalibur-- High potential, low-medium endurance: The epitome of run-'n-gun.  It's almost like the design of the 'Mech dictates the only way it can be used.  Move around, get good movement mods, demolish things at range, get hit, die.  Ammo dependency and armor are obvious issues; intervening terrain is the unknown factor that can nerf the effectiveness of its weapons.  Amazing with enhanced Gunnery pilots.

ST-8A Shootist -- High potential, low endurance: I love the Shootist.  It's such a great 'Mech.  But let's be honest, it's a super-Hunchback, and we field it for the AC/20.  And there are only 10 shots, less if you take 1 or 2 tons of specialized ammo.  If the ammo runs dry or the AC takes a critical hit, the Shootist becomes a slow rock with a few dinky energy weapons.  Absolutely make sure you place this 'Mech on the right side of your starting position, and expose only your right side in your approach to the target.  It may be fluffed as a bodyguard, but this 'Mech is the juiciest target of the lance.

BL-6-KNT Black Knight -- Moderate potential, high endurance: You know, I think the original Black Knight is cool because it wasn't horribly min-maxed like the stuff you see in TRO 3058.  20 Single Heat Sinks means all those lasers are redundant weaponry.  It also means that this 'Mech has a very forgiving learning curve and is great for beginners!  But I digress.  This 'Mech is clearly a brawler, but with an additional option to completely mutilate a target with an Alpha Strike at the risk of bad heat modifiers and shutdown.

SPT-N2 Spartan -- Low potential, moderate endurance: It's weird!  It's got an XL Engine!  It's got too much ammo!  It's got too much un-CASE'd ammo!  But the absolute best thing that the Spartan has going for it is that it has the weaponry of a Medium 'Mech!  Nobody will shoot at it...It's actually a bodyguard 'Mech!  That is, until the TAG hits.

Lance Tactics
3 Heavies and an Assault.  All designed for anti-armor work.  Not really a lance that pulls any punches.  It really has two modes: "extremely blunt instrument" mode and "mop up broken ranks" mode.  Start by placing on the right side of your starting area and cross the map diagonally, turning to zigzag when needed.  The Black Knight should be running out in the open, looking to draw attention with its PPC and a Large Laser.  It is the anchor of the lance, and not many will argue about that.

The Shootist should stick close to the BLK, finding cover when possible while jabbing with its ERLL.  Pamper it like a princess, because its purpose is not fulfilled yet.

If the Excalibur out-ranges the enemy on average, let it run the flank to keep its flexibility up as much as possible.  The opposition will likely need to roll quite high to hit it during the approach anyways.  If the Excalibur does NOT have the advantage (or if your initiative looks bad), it should be looking for cover like a fish for water.  Depending on how good its Gunner is, the 'Mech will occsionally need to stop in order to get a decent to-hit number at range.  Also, depending on how long you estimate the scenario will be, the EXC may even have to hold off on the LRMs to save ammo.  However, all of these special actions carry great risk with them, but that's really what the 'Mech's all about.

The Spartan is the wild card here.  It can either run ahead of the Black Knight to get ready to start brawling and TAGging things, or it can be reserved in the middle of the pack to keep its endurance up for later.  Essentially, it is your replacement Black Knight, unless you have artillery, in which case it becomes more valuable than the BLK.

IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GRINDER?  That's when the fun starts.  Exactly TWO turns after your Shootist gets within range to start delivering its real payload, your Black Knight will fire all of its weapons in an Alpha Strike.  I kid you not, sir, I can see the future.  That is the optimal time for the BLK to start working on crippling units rather than damaging them.  At the same time, the Excalibur needs to break off from the group, flank the area of contact, and either go for backshots or cover the opposition's escape.  You can start using it at the optimal 7-hex range from your targets now, because at this point it's do or die.  Get the Spartan next to targets and work them over with ALL your weapons, and 16-point kicks.  There's no sense in playing an 80-ton 'Mech conservatively if you've been saving it up for this point.  With the dice on your side, enough power delivered in one turn can make the rest of the battle much easier, much like how taking the effort to cook meat before it spoils is a good idea.

Conclusion: Big armor and big guns will get used for big brawls.  Timing each 'Mech's Moment of Glory is what will count the most, however.

Special Situations and Equipment
WHAT TO DO IF YOU LOSE YOUR AC/20: It's not all bad yet.  Though the conflict for you will now likely last quite a bit longer, the focus now is the at least make something of your lance's weight.  Keep focusing on the heavy enemy units that are in the way of you taking a vital position, because that's the least your Standard Fusion Engine 'Mechs can do.  Stay in a tight formation to ensure all of your brawlers' weapons and physical attacks can hit the same target.  Pulse lasers, punch, kick, charge, play rugby, do whatever it takes to make sure the OpFor stays on the ground as much as possible.  Keep running the Excalibur the way it's always been, or if you feel it's too valuable, let it hang back to take a break. ---- Conclusion #2: Once your 'Mechs' potentials have run out, it's up to their endurance to carry the day.

Setting up ambushes and getting ambushed: Make your Point-Blank attacks, then go immediately into "mop-up" mode.  The enemy has basically done the work of getting close for you.

Artillery: TAG with the Spartan.  Hit things with Arrow IV Homing Missiles from offboard.  If allowed, follow up with Semi-Guided LRMs from the Excalibur.  Rejoice.
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Re: Q&A: "What do I do with this unit?"
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2011, 07:50:20 AM »

Well that explains in a nut-shell why that Lance was getting taken apart oh so many years ago. Alright then! Honestly, that post was awesome. Well done sir. The real deal! Very, very appreciated! 

Also, what are your thoughts on swapping out the Excalibur for an Archer or Longbow? Also, I was wondering if twin Kintaros added to the original four (for WoB games) makes a difference as to how you'd run things?

Lastly, are there any other decidedly Star League/WoB 'Mechs that could be swapped?

Thank you!
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MadCapellan

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Re: Q&A: "What do I do with this unit?"
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2011, 09:46:20 AM »

I donmt have time for a Sheng depth analysis, but Kintaros are a waste unless your force is exceedingly LRM heavy, and yours is not.  Two is pretty much a bad idea no matter what.  The Star League/Word of Blake Medium you want to be running is the Crab - it's a magnificent little scrapper at all ranges. 

The problem with the force you described is that it's completely unfocused.  You have fast and slow 'Mech all mixed together in one lance, all with completely d ifferent optimum engagement ranges.  The result is that unless weverything goes perfectly, coordinating them is going to be next to impossible.
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klinktastic

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Re: Q&A: "What do I do with this unit?"
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2011, 10:25:33 AM »

To a degree, I'll agree with your assessment MadCap.  In an ideal world, you're running a company-sized force (maybe its a level III for WoB or whatever).  Then you can have your different Level IIs be more focused.  If you're forced to run just one lance or one Level II, its hard to say, well I'm going to to just run a brawler lance, because you've min-maxed yourself in a game that penalizes min-maxing. 

Side Note: When I say min-max, I mean focusing all your resources on one attribute to the point where you are weak at everything else.  In Warhmmer, you are applauded for this.  In BT, not so much.

I'm not familiar with WoB/Comstar 'Mechs, but the balance does seem to make sense.  It makes sense to have a Level II that is part hammer (Crabs, Excal, and Spartan) and anvil (Shootist & Black Knight).  In a micro setting, you have to merge what would have does with you multiple Level IIs within a Level III down into just one Level II.  Therefore you individual Level I's now have to take on different roles.  I'm not a fan of the Spartan or Shootist personally.  The Black Knight is excellent, and my laser zombie love is great.  I agree with MadCap, the Crab is an excellent bargain with above average, speed, durability, and endurance. 
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Ken

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Re: Q&A: "What do I do with this unit?"
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2011, 11:29:51 AM »

Bah, I say go with a pair of Kintaro-20's. They have the 5/8 speed to get to the edges with your Excalibur and then zip in to take advantage of the holes that have been punched. From mid-range they can skirmish with the larger lasers and small LRM pack. But once the enemy has been chewed up some, bust in and use the MLs and SRMs to finish them off.

They are even more helpful when the enemy brings their TSM beasts. Load one of the SRM bins with inferno and watch them have all sorts of trouble trying to keep their heat at 9. How can they predict how much heat you'll add to them when ever you don't know.

Or you can bring in the Kintaro-21. The ammo is cased in this version, making it more durable. The two can use their C3is to work together and unleash hell with the iNarc pods. Go haywire! Go ECM! You can still bring along the infernos, though you do lose some ranged punch.
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Re: Q&A: "What do I do with this unit?"
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2011, 12:17:01 PM »

I really wasn't includoing the KTO-20 in my assessment, because it's really more of a Drac platform than Star LeagueaWord of Blake.  As for the KTO-21, with a LRM heavy force, it can be effective, but I can think of a number of better ways to get infernos and C3i into the field if that's all I'm shooting for, and while I love haywire pods, two iNarcs in one Level II is generally overkill.
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Re: Q&A: "What do I do with this unit?"
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2011, 01:31:13 PM »

Sounds like we need a spin off Q&A thread with a title like this: "Q&A: What other 'Mechs should I put in this Unit?" or "Q&A: Help me build a unit to achieve goal (fill-in-the-blank)"
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Re: Q&A: "What do I do with this unit?"
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2011, 01:37:41 PM »

While I inderstand where Klink is coming from discussing multi-role lances/level 2s, lance cohesion is still vitally important.  If you need to put together a multi-role unit, it should either consist entirely of moderately fast units with moderate engagement ranges, or of two complimentary elements, such as a slow long-range force supporting a faster shorter range pair or trio of units.  The lance in question should probably lose the Spartan, the Excalibur, or both in favor of units which share more operating characteristics.
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Re: Q&A: "What do I do with this unit?"
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2011, 02:24:18 PM »

I started a thread to answer some of these questions! Thanks for all of the help fellas! Appreciated!
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