OBT Forum

Seems like Mines are getting quite the response, with most replies falling into one of two categories.

1. Love mines they're great
2. Mines are broken or used by Noobs

I mean, how broken can mines really be? Sure, if you've lost a game to minefields you're going to be a bit bitter about it if you've never used mines yourself, or aren't exactly sure how to use them appropriately, but broken? Really!?

Sound tactics are sound tactics and a "W" is a "W." Who cares (except maybe the loser) how you achieve it? Personally, the more I read about the uses of mines in BT, the more and more I'm coming to seriously enjoy the possibility of use. Especially if mines are going to illicit whining.

Whining is indicative of personal frustration. Rather than complain, why not up your personal ante and become a better BT player who is capable of defeating the object of your ire?

So I guess the question becomes are Mines really broken? Is there a valid complaint with the ruleset and equipment?   

Sun Tzu say's know your enemy.  If the guy you play at the Local Gaming Store rocks Capellans and is heavy into the mines, just come prepared.  As MadCap said, mine clearing ammo and jumpers is an easier counter.  Also, a little artillery or strafing runs on clustered up enemies is always a good time. 

Edit - Oh yeah, hovercraft make excellent attack vehicles when your enemy is using mines, just skip right over them. 

@KM - I have to agree with you.  Whenever I get beat by a particular tactic, I make sure that I never get beat by it again.  I'll accept defeat once...but after that, I'm going to start formulating game plans to reduce the effectiveness of said plan...not matter what that plan is.  It really boils down to the psychological effective of different things: mines, infantry, hovers, whatever...if you start getting nervous or scared, then you're going to make mistakes.  Table top strategy games boil down to elaborate games of rock, paper, sissors.  You most likely emphasized one in your army composition, but you should have a little of the other two.  Just think about how you can mitigate your weaknesses and let your strength shine.

Yeah, I think 50% of the battle is bringing the right stuff to the battle.  A lot of people tend to focusing in on one particular specialty, leaving them vulnerable to other tactics.  I'm sure a lot of people see the long-ranged gun line (Lyran) approach in games.  While its a good tactics, its not very good when that person is forced to play an objective game requiring them to move or close in for the kill.  Additionally, a force that is well balanced, containing long ranged, cavalry, and brawler elements can use the terrain to cover their advance and change the dynamics of the engagement to that of a close ranged brawl. 

If you're always playing on a open map against a long range sniper, well that guy is really just playing yatzee.  If he rolls well, then you're dead.  If he rolls poorly, well then you'll mop him up.  Likely, the player running the exclusively long ranged forced has little to no concept of strategy or tactics.  Since he knows that he cannot take a balanced force and win because it requires skill.  He'll remove skill and replace with dice.  That way, if he wins, he can note his superior forces and the fact that he designed a good force with synergy between unit selection.  If he loses, he can blame the dice, thus protecting his ego from the loss.  Ultimately, that player is going to never grow or evolve in tactics and strategy because he's constantly using the same tired techniques. 

The challenge is, to work with that player to step outside their comfort zone, maybe run some pre-gen forces and teach them the intricacies of the game and the various types of units.  So really, the reliance of T-Aug and snipers is just a sign of someone who needs help expanding their horizons.  Instead of complaining about it, you should approach those players and help them evolve.  Show them that winning without using "cheezy" tactics is much more statisfying as well.  You'll most likely end up making this gamer a long time gamer as people will enjoy playing with them.  Nothing worse than seeing the guy known for "cheezy" who comes to the gaming store and can't get games.  Catalyst loses that customer and it hurts the game overall.

The only legitimate complaint about mines was that minefield damage didn''t degrade, but that was fixed by TacOps, where each time a minefield detonates there's a chance it shrinks.  Toss-in mineclearing ammo for missile launchers and it's really just the whining of the unprepared.

What's the chance for shrinking through detonation, and how much does it shrink?

Felt this warranted discussion here, since the entry itself doesn't seem to be friendly to more banter:

Having seen, and participated in games, where opponents take a map corner and surrond themselves with Aug minefields, I regard that ammo with only a raised eyebrow.

Two launchers are sufficent to saturate an area, forcing the majority of units to either take inordinate damage, reduce movement, or +4 sniping.

Sure skill beats noob, but Thunder Aug restricts unit choice and encourages game delaying tactics like fire starting or edge camping

Using two launchers firing T-Aug, to cover a corner of a map, defined as an area 9 hexes by 9 hexes, would require 9 salvos or five turns.  The resulting area would still only inflict an average of 6 damage per turn to a jumping 'Mech, assuming LRM-20s were used, and the area could be passed over in two to three turns assuming 5/8/5 movement, resulting in an average of 12 damage being taken by a 'Mech passing through it by jumping.  Comparing that to the amount of damage that could have been dealt if the launchers had just been fired directly at the target, it's obvious that the twelve damage is much easier to handle than the full five turns of missiles.

I hardly consider 12 damage to be  "inordinate", leaping wherever I please as suffering extremely "reduced movement", or closing to point-blank range "+4 sniping."  If you stay outside the minefield, you're simply playing into the mine player's trap!

Mines are a psychological weapon - fear of the unknown.  People who allow that fear to control their actions are those who will lose to the minefield.  Simple analysis reveals that mines cannot be laid outside the range of a LRM rack, the distance covered by a LRM rack's range can easily be crossed in a few turns, and the amount of damage one can take a turn leaping across a minefield is significantly lower than one will take from being shot at by the same launchers directly.