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Author Topic: Tactics Discussion: Infantry, APCs, and Smoke Screens  (Read 14490 times)

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klinktastic

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Tactics Discussion: Infantry, APCs, and Smoke Screens
« on: March 08, 2011, 04:37:46 PM »

In my soon to be released article, I discuss some thoughts about how to keep your APCs and infantry alive during the crucial disembarkment period.  I'll reference the article when its posted here: http://ourbattletech.com/2011/03/tactics-discussion-apcs-smoke-screens-keeping-infantry-alive/
« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 02:31:36 PM by klinktastic »
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Gabriel

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Re: Tactics Discussion: Infantry, APCs, and Smoke Screens
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2011, 11:44:42 PM »

Cool Anything that keeps PBI alive longer
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Re: Tactics Discussion: Infantry, APCs, and Smoke Screens
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2011, 02:00:41 PM »

Very interesting write up Klink. After I posted my comment, I thought about VTOLs using smoke rounds if they fly low. Is that even viable or would it be better to just stick with the APCs? 
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klinktastic

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Re: Tactics Discussion: Infantry, APCs, and Smoke Screens
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2011, 02:49:13 PM »

Honestly, never thought of it myself.  Smoke rises 2 levels, so you could skim the ground at level 2 and use it as portable cover. If you lose some levels you'll probably end up lawn-darting.  I suppose it's serviceable in a pinch, but I'd rather just use the terrain alread provided as cover to make your advance with a VTOL.
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Re: Tactics Discussion: Infantry, APCs, and Smoke Screens
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2011, 03:45:17 PM »

Wonder how well Smoke Rounds and VTOLs would work on a city map? The building already provide a great deal of cover, (along with inherent dangers for the VTOLs) but being able to completely block alleys with smoke as you dart from one street to the next and then dropping infantry on roof tops might be a neat trick.
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Re: Tactics Discussion: Infantry, APCs, and Smoke Screens
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2011, 04:14:40 PM »

Great infantry stuff klinktastic!

Been thinking of some ways of delivering infantry to combat zones during Star League times as part of the Shattered Dawn setting. We have a variety of VTOLs, IFVs and APCs that usually do the job even aerofighters and small craft can be used to deploy paratroops but what about Mechs? I know Battlearmor or more precisely Elementals started using OmniMechs as rides during the Clans Golden century but could there have been previous developments. I'm thinking of a fast or highly mobile Mech that could transport a platoon of anti-Mech infantry into a battlezone. Thoughts?
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klinktastic

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Re: Tactics Discussion: Infantry, APCs, and Smoke Screens
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2011, 04:26:10 PM »

I can, and fluff-wise, I think APC Quads would be awesome.  Very much like AT-ATs from Star Wars, which are infact APCs.  My concern, and excuse me because I'm unfamiliar with the time frame, but 'Mechs are very, very rare and powerful.  Would they really want to take out 'Mech sized weaponry in order to drop off infantry?  Maybe, but only in instances were VTOLs and conventional APCs aren't effective.  Maybe quad jumpers for urban infantry delivery could be very effective.  My only concern is that when faced with very limited resources in terms of 'Mechs, are you going to expend them on moving PBIs or killing them and other 'Mechs.  Might not be a wide spread PBI delivery model, but maybe one of the factions has a particular love for PBIs and has some niche units for it.
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Re: Tactics Discussion: Infantry, APCs, and Smoke Screens
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2011, 04:43:01 PM »

The time frame is 2785 right after the Exdous much like canon except we have a plucky Terran nation trying to stick it out. ;)

Our initial talks for Fanbook 5 Threat Assessments, which will have a section entitled Infantry of the 28th Century and the CCAF of course, have indicated that House Liao would be the military to rely most on the common grunt.

Also if I recall correctly from TRO3075 they have access to Quad Mechs. Ah yes, the Xanthos. Even though that didn't go well the Scorpion and the Goliath have been developed prior to the outbreak of the 1st Succession War.

Be interesting if the Capellans developed a Quad Mech like you describe to finally try and fill that niche. How about Bipedal Mechs like the UrbanMech or my modern update on it the Citymaster?
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klinktastic

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Re: Tactics Discussion: Infantry, APCs, and Smoke Screens
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2011, 04:56:38 PM »

Bipeds are certainly feasible without a doubt.  I just have an imagine of quads being APC transport like designs.  As far as a good 'Mech to base it off of, maybe the Vulcan or similar 'Mech designed to eliminate enemy conventional forces.  It would make seense to have your infantry be good at hunting 'Mechs in the city and your 'Mech good at hunting infantry.  That way when you pair them up, your infantry can reign free.
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Re: Tactics Discussion: Infantry, APCs, and Smoke Screens
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2011, 06:08:00 PM »

Well said.
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MadCapellan

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Re: Tactics Discussion: Infantry, APCs, and Smoke Screens
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2011, 06:10:40 PM »

As I've said before, I don't think smoke is the greatest way to protect disembarking infantry.  A tracked APC can disembark it's troops directly into cover, so in general, when we're discussing infantry being caught in the open while leaving the transport, we're discussing hover APCs (unless you like garbage wheeled vehicles :o).  For a Hover APC, there is very little need to add additional to hit modifiers to the vehicle itself.  Most are more than swift enough to generate a significant movement modifier.  It is the infantry platoon delivered which is in need of protection, but with most anti-infantry weapons being either area-effect or point-blank ranged in nature, the added benefit of a +2 modifier is extremely limited compared to the massive x2 damage penalty incurred.  Further, by firing smoke, you have just telegraphed your planned disembarkment hex to the enemy a turn in advance. 

If you simply waited until the highest point in your initiative to position your APC behind blocking terrain, it would be unlikely that an enemy unit would remain unmoved to react to your disembarkment.  By indicating a turn ahead where you plan to move, you've given your opponent plenty of time to position deadly anti-infantry assets at your delivery point, assets against which a mere +2 to hit modifier will be negligible. 

I'd say the best plan for disembarking a hover APC safely would be simply to do so behind LOS breaking terrain, after your opponent has moved all or most of their faster light 'Mechs. 

Perhaps combining this with a tact from one of your earlier articles, deploying thunder mines around the area you wish to deploy to would discourage Light 'Mechs from moving in, but would still allow your Hover APCs to sail over them unlikely to recieve damage and deliver their troops unmolested.
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Knightmare

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Re: Tactics Discussion: Infantry, APCs, and Smoke Screens
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2011, 09:06:15 PM »

Damn Mad! Way to trounce on my inspiration of possible genius... :-[ ;)

Very helpful information. Again, being a noob with the new table top rules, (I think my last actual game of BattleTech was right after 4th Edition was released...) I hadn't thought about tactical combinations or possibilities.

Thank you!   
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klinktastic

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Re: Tactics Discussion: Infantry, APCs, and Smoke Screens
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2011, 09:09:22 PM »

Well remember, I'm not advocating dropping them off right in front of an enemy gun line. 

Remember, not ever map has tons of LOS blocking terrain.  Smoke is used to help bridge the gap when you're running the gauntlet between two peices of LOS blocking terrain.

Remember the following:

1. that smoke itself is cover, which eliminates the 2x damage multipler.

2. that smoke stacks with woods cover.

3. that smoke, combined with more smoke or woods can create LOS blocking terrain.

On open battlefields (non-urban) infantry's goal is to negate terrain.  Either negate it so the opponent's fire support cannot use it against you.  Or so that it deters them from taking it, and your fire support can use it against them and then provides some additional support should said opponent attack your fire support. 

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MadCapellan

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Re: Tactics Discussion: Infantry, APCs, and Smoke Screens
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2011, 09:58:45 PM »

1. that smoke itself is cover, which eliminates the 2x damage multipler.

Not if my reading of Total Warfare and TacOps is correct. 

Total Warfare pg.216
"Clear terrain: Conventional infantry hit while in Clear terrain suffer twice the normal damage. This includes damage received from infantry and burst-fi re weapons, as well as other non-conventional
infantry-mounted weapons, Area Effect weapons and so on."

Clear terrain with smoke in it does not become smoke terrain, it remains clear terrain with smoke in it.


Tactical Operations pg.57
"Light smoke acts as light woods for purposes of line of sight and attack modifiers......Heavy smoke acts as heavy woods for purposes of line of sight and attack modifiers."

attack modifiers being the penalty added to the to-hit result.  This in no way effects the "clear terrain" clause of Total Warfare.  The infantry are harder to see, but there is still nothing to keep the bullets or flames from ripping straight through there bodies like there is in hard cover.

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2. that smoke stacks with woods cover.

Sure, but at that point, the argument should be "smoke is awesome, use it every chance you can for awesome cover", as it no longer specifically applies to infantry disembarkment.  Indeed, there's no reason why an infantry unit in woods needs an additional to hit modifier in the turn it disembarks any more than it needs it any other turn in the game. 

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3. that smoke, combined with more smoke or woods can create LOS blocking terrain.

Indeed, but once again relying on that to unload involves telegraphing your plans.

Quote
On open battlefields (non-urban) infantry's goal is to negate terrain.  Either negate it so the opponent's fire support cannot use it against you.  Or so that it deters them from taking it, and your fire support can use it against them and then provides some additional support should said opponent attack your fire support.

Of course, but by firing smoke at or near a patch of terrain, you have telegraphed to your enemy the intention to use it, thus insighting him to get to it first.
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Ken

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Re: Tactics Discussion: Infantry, APCs, and Smoke Screens
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2011, 06:43:22 PM »

What if you used more smoke than was necessary?

Pick out three good locations to drop off the infantry and fill them with smoke.
The next turn, delay your infantry until later in the initiative. Move to the one that has the least enemy units threatening it. This way the enemy isn't converging on on location and your infantry still has cover to get into cover proper.
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