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Author Topic: Operation Revival Force Sub (Fleshing out ideas)  (Read 30531 times)

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masterarminas

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Operation Revival Force Sub (Fleshing out ideas)
« on: May 07, 2012, 01:03:16 AM »

Okay, folks, I overreached with Revival Reborn; I know that.  I am certain Drakensis could have told me I has grabbing for too much, but I wanted to at least try.  But in between everything else I have been working on (Star Trek, Star Wars, my novel for Baen, Pathfinder, etc.), I've got this idea that keeps popping up in my head.

Bear with me as I outline it here.  Starting about 3030, history is slightly changed.  Mikhail Kirov becomes Khan of Clan Goliath Scorpion (I have no clue who was Khan at the time, by the way).  Kirov is a forward thinker and he sees the impass between the Wardens and the Crusaders is something that will, eventually, be resolved.  And is a pragmatist.  All of the defections have so far been toward the Crusader camp, with the numbers of Wardens shrinking.

Although a staunch Warden himself, he orders a full review of the Scorpion toumen--and is not pleased by what is reported.  Out-dated equipment, units of superbly trained Warriors who act as individuals and not formed units, a full sixth of his entire cadre of Warriors Seeking on their vision quests.

Meanwhile, the other Clans have leapt ahead of the stagnent Scorpions.  With a mere four enclaves (five, if you include Strana Mechty) on Dagda, Roche, Tokasha, and Marshall, all of which have been traditionally seen as 'resource poor', the Scorpions were in a sorry state.

Furious over how the previous Khan and his saKhan (Gregor Lunde, who is still Kirov's saKhan), Kirov shakes up the system.  He recruits a ristar named Nikolai Djerassi, newly promoted to command of the 20th Scorpion Cuirassier, to demand a Trial of Greivance against Lunde.  Appearing surprised by this, but saddened greatly, Kirov grants the young Scorpion permission--to the abject horror of the saKhan.  Djerassi kills him quickly. 

Kirov then promotes Djerassi to saKhan and assigns Nikolai to get the Clan back into shape.  All Seekers are recalled to duty, which brings the Loremaster (Angela Tazegul) to confront the Khan and Nikolai in a furor.  Nikolai accepts her Trial of Refusal, but then she bids the entire Gamma Galaxy to defend her Seekers.  Kirov puts the khibosh on that, but allows her to fight with a single Cluster.  She accepts with the 3rd Scorpion Cuirassier and Nikolai meets her on Roche with his own 20th.

The Loremaster accuses Nikolai of ignoring the rules of Nicolas Kerensky when his well-training 20th begins tearing apart her own formation.  The younger saKhan then informs the Loremaster that if she is so concerned with the Martial Code of Nicolas Kerensky, she should stand down her men and meet him in single combat--she agrees, and dies.  Kirov takes the opportunity and appoints Randal Posavatz, a close associate of Nikolai as Loremaster.

Over the next five years, Kirov, Djerassi, and Posavatz reform and retrain the Scorpions, using the returning Seekers who are able to serve to fill out four new Clusters.  In addition, saKhan Djerassi organizes the training cadre of the Scorpion sibkos on Dagda and Roche into the 51st and 52nd Reserve Dragoon (Cadre) Clusters.  Each sibkin class is assigned to one of the two Cadre Clusters in their final year, before they actually qualify as warriors.  Here they learn real tactics and strategy from the cockpits of real 'Mechs in the field.

The sudden glut of new Warriors and extensive Trials of Position spur Kirov to form a Scorpion Solahma Cluster, to which he assigns aging Warriors who hope for one final chance at glory.  The remaining three Clusters are formed as Cuirassier formations, with one designated as the Knife Dance Keshik.  The remaining two, remain independent and are assigned to the Clan's six galaxies on an 'as-needed' basis.

Although there are many in the rank-and-file who question these decisions, the pace of the reforms keeps all of the Warrior Caste too busy to do little more than complain--and by the end of 3035, the increase in battlefield effectiveness and general Clan morale is palatable.  Part of this comes about when Kirov and Djerassi announce that fifteen new Garrison Clusters, consisting only of vehicles and conventional are being formed.  These Garrison units--initially manned by failed Warriors assigned to Civilian castes--will be assuming much of the burden of garrison, freeing the Scorpion Toumen to play the Great Game with the other Clans.

Early in 3036, another surprise binds the Scorpions still closer to their Khan.  Back in 3031, Khan Kirov ordered Scientists, Technicians, and Laborers to construct a major industrial complex in a deep cavern hidden beneath the Temple of the Nine Muses on Roche.  At the same time, teams of Scientists began work on five new OmniMechs--OmniMechs designed by Scorpions for Scorpions.  In 3036, the first products of that hidden factory were revealed.  Although light on firepower, the new designs were heavily amored for their respective weight classes (35, 45, 55, 65, and 75 tons), ALL were equipped with jump jets for maximum mobility (one each speed from 6/9/6 to 8/12/8, plus two 5/8/5s), and EVERY configuration featured a targeting computer.  Not one missile launcher was installed.  Except for Artillery Configurations with Arrow IV on the 55 and 65 tonners.

These new OmniMechs began to trickle into the ranks of Alpha and Beta Galaxy by the summer of 3036, and both Gamma and Delta were promised their BattleMechs would begin being replaced by 3044.  Epsilon and Zeta were last on the schedule, but at the current rate of production were expected to receive their new Omnis by 3052.  Of course, the immediate results were explosive:  OmniMechs (standard Clan models) from Alpha and Beta began to replace second-line BattleMechs in Gamma and Delta.   Which then replaced old antiquated SLDF BattleMechs in Epsilon and Zeta.

Fast forward to 3048.  Khan Kirov died in 3044, and now Nikolai Djerassi is Khan, with Randal Posavatz as saKhan.  When the Jaguars reveal to the Grand Council that they have captured the Outbound Light and that the Inner Sphere has found the Clans, both men recognize that this is the moment--and they cannot stop the wave, only hope to ride it.

They shock the Council by siding with the Crusaders, and fiercely debate over Showers and Critchells plan of attack.  Taken aback by the ferocity of the normally placid Scorpions, the Jaguar and Falcon quickly meet with Djerassi in private.  When they question him, they discover that he wants the Scorpions assigned to the Invasion.  Both men humor him, and promise Djerassi his Clan will have a place in the trials.

Selecting his finest unit, outfitted with the relatively new and still exclusively Scorpion OmniMechs, Djerassi watches in pleasure as his men tear through first the Cobras, then the Coyotes, and finally defeat the Diamond Sharks.  All three Clans protest against the 'un-Clanlike' behavior of the Scorpion troops, but Djerassi--supported by the Khan of Clan Star Adder--successfully argue that if the Clans cannot defeat Warriors utilizing basic SLDF tactics, how do they expect to defeat the Inner Sphere bandit armies?

As the plans for the operation are being finalized, the Trials come down to the Falcons, Jaguars, Bears, Adders, Cats, Vipers, Scorpions, and Horses, with Clan Wolf assured an invasion lane.  With slots for three active and two reserve Clans, the Trials begin, with the Adders being narrowly defeated by the Bears, the Vipers falling to the Falcons, the Jaguars defeating the Cats, and the Scorpions soundly defeating the Horses in a move that stunned the Crusader Clans. 

However, ilKhan Showers proclaimed that the Scorpions bid for the invasion was too conservative, and awarded the final active Clan slots to the Jaguars, Bears, and Falcons, with the Vipers and Cats in reserve.  The Adders and Horses both withdrew their bids, but Khan Djerassi was furious and he demanded a Trial of Refusal, over his forces denied a place despite defeating his opponent.

Heated words were exchanged between the new Jaguar Khan (??) Howell and Djerassi, and the Jaguars gained the honor of putting the Scorpions back into their place.  Things did not work out so well.  Personally leading his command Keshik, Nikolai Djerassi fought against Khan Howell and killed him in battle, routing the Jaguar forces.  Furious over the loss, ilKhan Showers--unable to avenge his former saKhan--compromised and created a third 'Reserve to the Reserve' Clan and assigned to the Scorpions to that slot.

From here things proceed according to canon, with the Scorpions on-hand (with Alpha and Beta Galaxy, the Knife Dance Keshik, the 20th and 26th Scorpion Cuirassier, and the Scorpion Solahma Cluster; 12 Line Clusters in all, with another 10 Garrison Clusters in support).  Forbidden from actual combat operations (as the Reserve to the Reserve Clan), Djerassi and his Star Colonels took note of each and every setback and triumph.  They brought forward and posistioned huge reserves of materials, munitions, and supplies--and they bartered with Clans Ghost Bear and Wolf when the need for PGCs was suddenly realized.  The ten Scorpion Garrison Clusters proved instrumental in calming down the former Rasalhague worlds.

Then comes the death of ilKhan Showers.  Djerassi argues against returning the Homeworlds, but his debate fails to alter the vote.  A year is wasted through which Ulric Kerensky is elected as ilKhan.

The invasion resumes, and once again, Nikolai is disappointed when Ulric activates the Vipers and the Cats, but not his Scorpions.  As the invasion restarts, Nikolai begins to question the ilKhan, arguing about the wisdom of assigning the Vipers with the Falcons and the Cats with Jaguars.  As these four Clans begin fighting each other over worlds, Nikolai becomes more and more alarmed--he fears that the ilKhan is sabotaging the invasion.  Although a Warden, the very idea of such an act is . . . unthinkable to a Clansman.

Taking his concerns to the ilKhan, Nikolai is assured that the success of the invasion is very much on Ulric's mind, but the Scorpions fears are not eased.  And then comes Tukayyid.

Finally allowed to participate in battle, Nikolai shocks the assembled Khans when he refuses to bid away his WarShip support.  Ulric thunders at him, but the Scorpion stands his ground--and cites the Martial Code.  Not even the ilKhan can command a Khan to lower his bid in actual combat.  This is in addition to the fact that he bids all 12 of his Line Clusters and 4 Garrison Clusters.  Ulric finally backs down, but the inclusion of the capital ships and the large bid means that the Scorpions will land 24 hours after the Wolves touch down  Dead last.

Most believe that Nikolai chose poorly.

The battle progresses according to canon, but when the Scorpions hit dirt they ripped through the relatively inexperienced Eighth Army with a combination of speed, mobility, and precision fire that the ComGuards simply could not believe.  With the Eighth routed, Djerassi pivoted and tore into the Second Army--already understrength and manned by green troops.  The ComGuards were unable to stand against the onslaught, and retreated as Focht desperately arranged for the Fifth Army to move in and repel the Scorpions from Kozice Prime and Urcunat.  Although the combat drop of the Fifth directly atop the Scorpion positions gave the ComGuards an opportunity to reclaim the cities, the mauled Eighth and Second were unable to provide assistance.  A desperate stand by the Scorpion Solahma at the head of the free-born Garrison Clusters held back the Fifth long enough for saKhan Posavatz to arrive with Beta Galaxy and send the robe a'running.

By this point, the ilKhan was facing that the Vipers, Cats, and Jaguars had been defeated, the Falcons fought to a draw, and the Wolves, Bears, and Scorpions were victorious.   The battle was in balance, and Ulric was concerned about the status of the remaining three Clans--Wolves, Bears, and Scorpions--and their supplies.  The other four had withdrawn, three in disgrace and one licking its painful wounds and mourning the loss of a great Warrior.

The Scorpions had taken grevious casualties, including the loss of saKhan Posavatz.  The ilKhan was urging both Nikolai and the Bears tattered leadership into admitting their defeat.  It was at that moment that Nikolai Djerassi won the Battle of Tukayyid.  Comming Star Admiral Elijah Ben-Shimon aboard the GSS Serket in orbit, he ordered his WarShips to immediately begin an orbital bombardment of all Comstar troop concentrations.

Ulric countermands the order.  Nikolai confirms it and warns the ilKhan not to interfere--his ships had been bid by the customs of the Clans.  "And after all, Nicolas himself ordered my very Clan to use such weapons on Dagda, did he not?"

Focht watches in horror as his concentrations of troops are burnt and shattered from orbital fire--before his command bunker is the target of a direct hit.  The Precentor Martial dies.

Less than seventeen hours later, all of the surviving Comguard units have surrendered.

Of course, it is for naught.  The Primus has launched Operation Scorpion (funny about that name) and refuses to hand over Terra.  Ulric is disgraced by her perfidity.

And that is as far as I have gotten in my outline.  Any ideas?  Thoughts?  Suggestions?  Should I write it?

Master Arminas










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Blacknova

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Re: Operation Revival Force Sub (Fleshing out ideas)
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2012, 03:02:52 AM »

This will be apolitical **** storm of enormous magnitude.  The rest of 3052, with gutted Clans, a weak sphere, Waterly still in charge and Ulric weakened will make for some excellent divergence points.
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Re: Operation Revival Force Sub (Fleshing out ideas)
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2012, 05:19:59 AM »

It's a very interesting sequence of events. Both Ulric and Nikolai are likely to face Trials of Greivance, either against each other or by other Clans.

The Inner Sphere are rallying troops and have been given a further pause in the invasion to continue, while Waterly just jumped to the number one target. At this point the Clans are going to hit Terra even if they have to bypass every world on their path, even if they're attacking with two injured Solahma with rifles, they are going after Waterly.

Meanwhile the rest of the Inner Sphere is rallying and taking control of the HPGs. Without Focht to grant prestige to ComStar, the organisation is finished.

The FedCom will have brought massive reinforcements to bear and have more time to rearm but an attack on Terra by the Clans threatens them most and Hanse Davion is probably still dead. With the Clans exhausted this is the best time to counterattack but they arguably can't. Also, there's the menace of warships which are back on the table as a threat. I suspect that the DCA will make taking out Clan warships a priority to the point of Kamikaze tactics and it's not impossible that the Steiners might decide to do the same (they use the Seydlitz in combat which is pretty suicidal already).

The FWL is probably in the best place to restore their HPG network given Thomas Marik's connections, and they may also send more units forward to fight against the Clans.
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Re: Operation Revival Force Sub (Fleshing out ideas)
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2012, 08:23:57 AM »

Also keep in mind, that with Waterly still in charge, the real Thomas Marik still around, and a ComStar sans-Reform the suicidal-religious ferocity of ComStar may very well be unleashed upon the Clans sooner rather than later.

I'm not talking about Shadow Divisions, etc., but suicidal use of the ComGuard fleet, tactical nukes in space, etc. Given your newly-written flexibility, timing is everything (like when did the WoB or ComStar create said Shadow Divisions, or how long will it take for Terra's armament factories to get into full swing again with the full backing of ComStar?)

What if Waterly went public with the true identity and goals of the Clans (I'm not sure by 3052 the entire Inner Sphere knew the full extent of the Clan's origins, goals or method of assimilation), would ComStar receive a huge influx of eager (albeit untrained) recruits spoiling to fight the Clans? I'm sure Operation Scorpion won't help that much...

The fact that the Chaos March hasn't been created and the Terran Corridor is a peaceful zone, I doubt she'd get much old-school Terran support.

I wonder if ComStar would be reduced to using Taurian Reunification War tactics to stem the tide...
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masterarminas

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Re: Operation Revival Force Sub (Fleshing out ideas)
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2012, 11:27:32 AM »

Question:  would Focht's Comguard (the survivors) serve the Clans as bondsmen?  Or would they consider themselves prisoners of war?  Bound to resist by any means?

The largest difference in the BoT is that the Scorpions land with their full Invasion Force, whereas the Sharks (in canon) landed just FIVE clusters.  Eleven front-line Clusters, a Solaham, and four PGCs instead of FOUR front-line and a second-line unit.  That gives Nikolai enough reserves to react to Fifth Army's combat drop and pull out a victory in the (formerly) Shark engagement zone.

Do I have Ulric's reaction right?  Would he try to stop Nikolai from using his ships against the (mostly) evacuated planet (no civilians, only military targets, remember)?  Should he try and stop the battle when it tetters on the verge of victory--or is he more savvy than that?  Ulric is a hard character to read sometimes, and I am not exactly certain. 

Master Arminas
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Re: Operation Revival Force Sub (Fleshing out ideas)
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2012, 12:58:57 PM »

I'm fairly certain he'd rail against the inclusion of the WarShip in the original bid since it undermines the pseudo-ban on WarShips after Turtle Bay. Despite Ulric's Warden ideals, he's still a Clanner. So I'm fairly certain he's a firm believer that the Clans will triumph over the Guard at Tukayyid. If so, then the Scorpion's WarShip is a premature challenge to the existing status quo - especially if you consider that the ComGuard fleet is still a no-show and the Great Houses haven't deployed any WarShips yet.

However, as the battle begins to turn against the Clans it's a coin flip whether or not Ulric would continue to challenge use of the WarShip. With so much on the line - even for a Warden - and the lack of civilian targets, I'm not sure he'd fight its use.

Ulric's a pretty smart guy. As a Warden he always struck me as the type of character who would always lead from the front. So as a Warden, if he were incapable of stopping an invasion, but then given the opportunity to direct it, I fully expect Ulric to go the extra distance. After all, the final say in the Warden/Crusader debate is to become the ilClan.

Ulric's pragmatic attitude lends me to believe that if the opportunity to win at Tukayyid presented itself he'd seize it so that he could continue to maneuver his Wolves into a better position - perhaps even gaining the ilClan slot further down the line.

However, with the Scorpions effectively "saving the day" at Tukayyid, he's have a serious contender with the Scorpion Khan. However, however even more...should Ulric and the Scorpion start to work together after the battle (say Ulric final take the Scorps seriously), then you have a tremendous Warden power bloc in the Grand Council post-Tukayyid. Under Ulric's leadership and the momentum/prestige earned by the Scorpions could translate into a serious lead ahead of the other Invading Clans.     
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Re: Operation Revival Force Sub (Fleshing out ideas)
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2012, 01:12:18 PM »

What surprises me a little is that the Scorpion Khan doesn't face more Trials.
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masterarminas

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Re: Operation Revival Force Sub (Fleshing out ideas)
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2012, 01:49:29 PM »

And here is the Solaris VII armory with the new Scorpion machines (I made a change and there are only 4 new Omnimechs (35, 45, 55, and 70 tons).  ALL of them have jump jets as fixed equipment, plus targeting computers.  No missile weapons, not in any configuration.  Very much in the Scorpion style.

http://www.solaris7.com/Armory/ArmoryInfo.asp?ID=2547

Ice, he will face PLENTY of Trials.  This isn't the actual story, it is only a bare-bones outline/synopsis that I am using to plan out the story.

Master Arminas
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Halvagor

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Re: Operation Revival Force Sub (Fleshing out ideas)
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2012, 03:25:55 PM »

Seems more likely to me that the ComGuard Aerospace forces would destroy the Scorpion WarShip fleet.  Plus, by failing to bid-away the WarShips or any of his forces, the Scorpions look to me like they're setting themselves up to have another Clan bid for the Scorpion targets (in addition to their own), since the Scorpions are obviously so afraid of the ComGuards.  I think that'd be a major challenge to your plan for the Scorpions to single-handedly win the BoT.

On the other hand, since they unilaterally destroyed every other Clan's enemies without permission, I'd expect the Scropions to be facing a pretty serious challenge for Annihilation due to the flagrant violation of Zellbringen.  Certainly the Khan is going to face trials of Un-Clan-like attitude.

I think your overall attempt to bring sense to the Clans (in the form of sensible military tactics) would, itself, be seen as a threat to the Clan way of life.  The Clans - rightly or wrongly - are a duelist culture, rather than a military one.  And I don't see overturning that being anywhere as simple as this.  And the first question I'd ask is, if the Scorpions had the resources to build a secret new 'mech production center why hadn't they done it before?  I think you need to reform the society before you can reform the equipment (you can then use their newfound sense of unity & purpose to claim workers in all castes became more efficient, imaginative and effective).  I think you'd also be better off having the Scorpions sit out the first campaign (their reforms hadn't quite taken effect yet, say), but let them send observers.  This lets them benefit from the first part of Revival without having to change canon too much (or that silly "Reserve of the Reserve"), but let them fight their way into the second part of the campaign -- if only as reserves, so they can still make the BoT.

On the other hand...if you're going to let the Clans use basic military tactics and all the weapons at their disposal, it's only right if the DCMS and AFFC can do the same...and I think that'd stop the Clanners long before they got to Tukayyid.  And the Inner Sphere forces are a hell of a lot more experienced in war than the Clans -- who only know how to fight duels.
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masterarminas

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Re: Operation Revival Force Sub (Fleshing out ideas)
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2012, 03:47:40 PM »

Seems more likely to me that the ComGuard Aerospace forces would destroy the Scorpion WarShip fleet.  Plus, by failing to bid-away the WarShips or any of his forces, the Scorpions look to me like they're setting themselves up to have another Clan bid for the Scorpion targets (in addition to their own), since the Scorpions are obviously so afraid of the ComGuards.  I think that'd be a major challenge to your plan for the Scorpions to single-handedly win the BoT.

On the other hand, since they unilaterally destroyed every other Clan's enemies without permission, I'd expect the Scropions to be facing a pretty serious challenge for Annihilation due to the flagrant violation of Zellbringen.  Certainly the Khan is going to face trials of Un-Clan-like attitude.

I think your overall attempt to bring sense to the Clans (in the form of sensible military tactics) would, itself, be seen as a threat to the Clan way of life.  The Clans - rightly or wrongly - are a duelist culture, rather than a military one.  And I don't see overturning that being anywhere as simple as this.  And the first question I'd ask is, if the Scorpions had the resources to build a secret new 'mech production center why hadn't they done it before?  I think you need to reform the society before you can reform the equipment (you can then use their newfound sense of unity & purpose to claim workers in all castes became more efficient, imaginative and effective).  I think you'd also be better off having the Scorpions sit out the first campaign (their reforms hadn't quite taken effect yet, say), but let them send observers.  This lets them benefit from the first part of Revival without having to change canon too much (or that silly "Reserve of the Reserve"), but let them fight their way into the second part of the campaign -- if only as reserves, so they can still make the BoT.

On the other hand...if you're going to let the Clans use basic military tactics and all the weapons at their disposal, it's only right if the DCMS and AFFC can do the same...and I think that'd stop the Clanners long before they got to Tukayyid.  And the Inner Sphere forces are a hell of a lot more experienced in war than the Clans -- who only know how to fight duels.

Yes, the Reserve of the Reserve is a bit silly:  but in effect that is what the Sharks were during the Invasion.  The original plans called for four Active and one Reserve Clan.  That was then altered to two Reserves, and then the Sharks were added as a 'final reserve'.  Of course, that was done by Stackpole and FASA so that Ulric could bog down the Falcons and Jaguars when they were paired with the reserve Vipers/Cats; and they needed SEVEN Clans to hit Tukayyid so that two wins and a two close fights wouldn't stalemate.

Comguard Aerospace Forces?  The same ones that have been fighting the Clans for two solid weeks?  Against a Star of fresh WarShips with fighters and assault ships of their own?  I'd take that fight.

Ah, but Halvagor, by their own actions earlier in the Invasion, bidding WarShips was commonly accepted Clan practice.  They didn't stop as a show of disdain to the Inner Sphere; they stopped because Ulric bid his own away!  Nikolai returning to the earlier common practice isn't a sign of fear--merely one of not allowing his Clan to be swayed by a need to match his fellows.  Remember that Tukayyid was the first (and only) time that the Sharks were allowed to engage during the Invasion.  They weren't bidding for the right to assault a Target; Ulric had already stated that all seven Clans would participate.  (Primarily because if one didn't and the rest were defeated, that Clan could claim the Truce didn't apply to them.)  They bid against each other to determine the order they would land and which two targets they would assault.

So, really, all I see with the 'inflated' and 'conversative' bid by Nikolai is moving the Scorpions BEHIND the Wolves, who in canon landed seven full days after the first fighting began.

Now, I don't doubt that there would indeed be Trials of Greviance and/or Refusal, but the Clans that had already withdrawn from the combat don't have a leg to stand on--especially since Focht was redeploying his forces to gang up on the Clans that remained.  One could argue that Tukayyid had already become a grand melee from the moment any Clan forces were attacked by a Comguard Division already assigned to another Clan.

Just my thoughts.

Master Arminas
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Halvagor

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Re: Operation Revival Force Sub (Fleshing out ideas)
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2012, 04:58:28 PM »

The ComGuards should have deployed 39 AeroSpace fighters per each of ~70 divisions, or 2700+ fighters.  And as AeroSpace was listed as the one area where all IS forces had rough parity with the Clanners, I doubt that two weeks of solid fighting had done enough damage to the ComGuard Aerospace forces to make them incapable of dealing with a measely star of WarShips.  That's 270 stars of fighters, or 90 trinaries of fighters, or 20-30 clusters of fighters, or 4-6 galaxies of fighters.  How many did the combined clans bring to the fight?

Focht is also not portrayed as a fool.  Might he not have had the ComGuard fleet hidden somewhere in the system, in case the Crusaders tried to pull something on Ulric?
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Re: Operation Revival Force Sub (Fleshing out ideas)
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2012, 05:29:26 PM »

So, of those 2,730 ComGuard aerospace fighters, how many do you think were lost during the fighting?  ASF on bombing and strafing runs tend to HEAVY casualties, after all (hence the term 'lawn-darts' that many do use for ASF).

We know the following: 

The Jaguars had two Galaxies (Alpha and Beta), including a number of units not shown in Invading Clans (6th Jaguar Draoons, Jaguar Grenadiers, and the 122th Striker cluster).

Clan Nova Cat fielded three Galaxies (Alpha, Beta, and Gamma).

The Vipers also fielded three Galaxies (Alpha and Gamma were front-line, and the second-line Zeta in reserve).

The Sharks had the smallest contribution:  5 clusters in canon.  But my own Scorpions will be taking their place.

The Bears bid three front-line Galaxies:  Alpha, Beta, and Delta.

The Falcons also bid all three of their front-line Galaxies;   Delta, Vau, and Gamma.

The Wolves fielded three Galaxies as well:  Alpha, Beta, and Gamma.

AND we know that the ComGuards took 40% fatalities of the twelve Armies that they committed, with many more injured.

Estimates of Clan ASF as as follows:  the Falcons deployed 559 Omnifighters, the Bears 460, the Vipers 195, the Cats 240, the Jaguars 120, and the Wolves are unknown.  That is from this site:  http://psychopompousgb.xanga.com/tags/tukayyid/

That is 1,574 Omnifighters, exclusive of the Wolf and Scorpion contribution.  My Scorpions field another 384, plus their WarShip has an additional 90.  That is 2,048; before we include the Wolves.  Assuming the Wolves field 20-30 aerospace fighters per cluster, that would put another 300-450 ASF in the air on the Clan side of things:  Let's split the difference at 375.

Final numbers are 2,423 (Clan) vs. 2,730 (Comstar), a difference of about 11% in strength.  Which given the higher levels of tech in Clan fighters makes it about even.

Of course, my numbers could be wrong:  does anyone here on site have an accurate number on Clan and Comstar troop strength at Tukayyid?

Master Arminas

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Re: Operation Revival Force Sub (Fleshing out ideas)
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2012, 07:11:43 PM »

Your argument are getting neater the more people pick at them.  I think the major fallout will be weather the Scorpions and Wolves act together after Tukkayid.  Individually they can be cut down by the Crusaders for either setting Tukkayid up, or for Dezgra tactics, weather either charge has a basis of fact or not.  Together, they can dramatically change the stance and charecter of the invasion, but what the Scorpins do next, in order to win IS territory to base from will be a critical action.
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Re: Operation Revival Force Sub (Fleshing out ideas)
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2012, 07:26:13 PM »

Final numbers are 2,423 (Clan) vs. 2,730 (Comstar), a difference of about 11% in strength.  Which given the higher levels of tech in Clan fighters makes it about even.

Keep in mind also that while Clan Aerospace Pilots and Inner Sphere Pilots were considered to have achieved rough parity (unlike MechWarriors), the ComGuard Aerospace arm is completely un-blooded. In comparison to a House regular, the ComGuard is down right green. So if your 2,423 vs. 2,730 is correct then the Clan had a pretty distinct aerospace advantage. 
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Re: Operation Revival Force Sub (Fleshing out ideas)
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2012, 07:59:09 PM »

Those numbers will not remain constant, though.  The Scorpion bombardment would occur at the point where the Battle was officially 'called' in canon.   And by that point, the Comguards had taken 40% dead!  Casualties among the Clans ranged from 20% (dead) for Clan Wolf to 32% (once again dead) for Clan Smoke Jaguar; with similar percentages for wounded on both sides!

The Battle raged for twenty-one days straight . . . the bombardment would occur on either Day 21 or 22. 

Master Arminas

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