OBT Forum

I haven't had time to scan the whole thread just the first few posts so please don't shoot me down (pardon the pun) but since Focht and Kerensky shared the bids/information during the trial wouldn't Focht having seen WarShips in the Clan bid wouldn't he have called in the ComGuards own ships?

Sure they didn't have them all active but I bet anyone the Guards had at least a few active ships (the 3 Dantes at least) at the time badly inexperienced but their appearance would have paused the Scorpions and likely delayed the Trial even longer.

Suddenly everyone (except the Wolves who forgot there's) have WarShips on the table, maybe even the Dragoons say hello with their own as well then all hell would literally break loose

Okay, from looking at the material, Ulric and Focht agreed that 25 Galaxies of Clan Warriors would engage the Twelve ComGuard Armies.

Nothing is said of WarShips, but the ilKhan and Precentor Martial could have bid them away.

From that maximum of 25 Galaxies, the Jaguars bid 2, the Cats 3, the Vipers 3, the Falcons 3, the Ghost Bears 3, the Wolves 4, and the Scorpions (effectively) 3 (two actual Galaxies, plus the Keshik, independent clusters, and Garrison clusters).  Total of 21 Galaxies.

Now, we from invading Clans that the Jaguars had two more Galaxies they didn't bid, the Bears 1, and the Wolves 1. 

Hmmm.  If Khan Osis is restored to consciousness before the end of the battle, could he break his bid and land again with his remaining two fresh Galaxies?  HE didn't order a withdrawal--the ilKhan did, which cost him two Clusters of Alpha Galaxy (the 6th Dragoons and Jaguar Grenadiers).

If so, and the ComGuard units defending Dinju Heights and Port Racice have been weakened to add to the remaining contests, might the Jags capture at least one of the two cities?

Just some ideas.

Master Arminas

I have changed a few things on the Invading Clans.  Here is the (tentative) TO&E:


Clan Ghost Bear (effective 19 Clusters; 4 Galaxies; 11 WarShips)

Alpha Galaxy:  The Ourse Keshik, The Silveroot Keshik, 1st Bear Guards, 3rd Bear Guards, 5th Bear Guards,  50th Striker Cluster
Beta Galaxy:  The Shrill Keshik, 7th Bear Guards, 12th Bear Chevaliers, 304th Assault Cluster, 332nd Assault Cluster, 14th Battle Cluster
Delta Galaxy:  Jorgennson's Keshik, 8th Bear Guards, 20th Polar Bear Attack Cluster, 68th Striker Cluster, 115th Striker Cluster, 140th Striker Cluster
Rho Galaxy:  Kabrinski's Keshik, 18th Battle cluster, 243rd Battle Cluster, 288rd Battle Cluster, 300th Battle Cluster

WarShips:  Black Lion-class Bear's Den (Flag), Congress-class Shining Claw, Lola III-class Blizzard, Icepick, Essex-class White Fang, Whirlwind-class Fire Fang, York-class Ursa Minor, Fredasa-class Black Ghost, Volga-class Ursine Boatman, Carrack-class Den Mother, Yggdrasil

Rationale:  Ghost Bear had the worst of the starting corridors, yet it had a smaller bid force than the Falcons.  That doesn't seem right.  So, I increased the size of the Bears to equal (in clusters) that of the Falcons.


Clan Goliath Scorpion (effective 15 Clusters; 3 Galaxies; 11 WarShips)


Alpha Galaxy:  Knife Dance Keshik, 24th Scorpion Cuirassier, 25th Scorpion Cuirassier, 8th Scorpion Dragoons, 14th Scorpion Hussars
Beta Galaxy:  9th Scorpion Cuirassier, 20th Scorpion Cuirassier, 23rd Scorpion Curassier, 1st Scorpion Dragoons, 6th Scorpion Hussars
Delta Galaxy:   17th Scorpion Cuirassier, 21st Scorpion Cuirassier, 26th Scorpion Cuirassier, 11th Scorpion Dragoons, 4th Scorpion Hussars

WarShips:  Sovietskii Soyuz-class Serket (Flag), Cameron-class Hephasestus; Aegis-class Corona Austrina, Congress-class Garlon, Lola III-class Auriga, Scorpio, Potemkin-class Bonaventure (hired from Clan Snow Raven), Enceladus, Karttikeya, Prometheus, Renown

Rationale:  Did away with the Solahma and the Garrison Clusters.  Three Galaxies seems about right for a Reserve Clan.  Five full ships of the WarShip Reserve (the Potemkins) are only being used to transport supplies, not troops, and are considered non-combat assets able only to defend themselves.  They will not be bid in any fight.


Clan Jade Falcon (effective 19 Clusters; 4 Galaxies; 11 WarShips)

Turkina Keshik (Cluster)
Gamma Galaxy:  Jade Falcon Guards, 7th Falon Regulars, 12th Falcon Regulars, 3rd Falcon Talon Cluster, 9th Falcon Talon Cluster
Delta Galaxy:  305th Assault Cluster, 5th Battle Cluster, 2nd Falcon Jaegers, 8th Falcon Regulars, 1st Falcon Striker Cluster
Vau Galaxy:  89th Falcon Striker cluster, 94th Falcon Striker Cluster, 4th Falcon Talon Cluster, 4th Falcon Velites
Iota Galaxy:  3rd Battle Cluster, 1st Falcon Jaegers, 124th Falcon Striker Cluster, 2nd Falcon Velites

WarShips:  Cameron-class Turkina's Pride (Flag), Nightlord-class Emerald Talon, Liberator-class Gauntlet, Aegis-class Frost Falcon, Hawkeye, Jade Talon, Congress-class Green Lantern, Kerensky's Pride, Whirlwind-class Emerald Tornado, Vincent-class [/i]Lightning Strike[/i], Carrack-class Ironhold Provider

Rationale:  The Falcons, in canon, had three Solahma Clusters and three Training/Cadre Clusters!  Seriously?  I removed those and added a fourth Galaxy.  Even so, the Falcon numbers shrank to 19 Clusters--the same number as the Ghost Bears.  That extra Galaxy seems to fit the Falcon style more than overloading Galaxies to seven or eight clusters each.


Clan Nova Cat (effective 13 Clusters; 3 Galaxies; 6 WarShips)

Alpha Galaxy:  The Nova Cat Keshik, The Vision Keshik, 4th Nova Cat Guards, Nova Cat Fusiliers, 449th Assault Cluster, 489th Assault Cluster
Sigma Galaxy:  The Lachesis Keshik, 44th Nova Cat Cavaliers, 53rd Nova Cat Cavaliers, Nova Cat Lancers, 179th Striker Cluster
Delta Galaxy:  The Shiva Keshik, 3rd Nova Cat Guards, Nova Cat Uhlans, 274th Battle Cluster, 119th Striker Cluster

WarShips:  Black Lion-class Severn Leroux (Flag), Congress-class True Vision, Lola III-class Faithful, Hunter, Ranger, York-class CVL Anna Rosse

Rationale:  The Nova Cats had a mere 10 Clusters, divided amongst three Galaxies (and this is if you add in the combined Keshiks as the tenth Cluster!).  I increased their strength slightly (three Galaxies of four Clusters each, plus four command Keshik Trinary units).


Clan Smoke Jaguar (effective 16 clusters; 3 Galaxies; 11 WarShips)

Alpha Galaxy:  The Shroud Keshik, The Jaguar's Den Keshik, Jaguar Grenadiers, 5th Jaguar Regulars, 6th Jaguar Dragoons, 7th Jaguar Dragoons, 17th Jaguar Dragoons
Beta Galaxy:  The Swath Keshik, 1st Jaguar Guards, 362nd Assault Cluster, 225th Jaguar Battle Cluster, 4th Jaguar Dragoons, 21st Jaguar Dragoons
Delta Galaxy:  The Skyriders Keshik, 2nd Jaguar Guards, 3rd Jaguar Cavaliers, 336th Jaguar Combat Cluster, 1st Striker Cluster, 19th Striker Cluster

WarShips:  Black Lion-class Streaking Mist (Flag), Congress-class Hunter's Pride, Snow Leopard, Lola III-class Griffin, Stormcat, Essex-class Dark Claw, Sabre Cat, York-class Lioness, Queen Lynx, Vincent-class Azov, Ripper

Rationale: I added the Jaguar units we see listed in Invading Clans, which brings the Jags up to a respectable 16 Clusters (including 5 command Keshik Trinary units).  Of the primary Clans in the invasion, they are still the lowest bid, which gave them the prestigous Draconis Combine corridor.


Clan Steel Viper (effective 14 Clusters; 3 Galaxies; 6 WarShips)

Triasch Keshik (cluster)
Alpha Galaxy:  1st Viper Guards, 2nd Viper Guards, 4th Viper Guards, 400th Assault Cluster, 94th Battle Cluster
Beta Galaxy:  9th Viper Guards, Viper Fusiliers, 126th Striker Cluster, 195th Striker Cluster
Gamma Galaxy:  423rd Assault Cluster, 428th Assault Cluster, 51st Battle Cluster, 57th Striker Cluster

WarShips:  Cameron-class Zalman's Endeavor (Flag), Sovetskii Soyuz-class Sanra Mercer, Congress-class Snake Leader, Lola III-class Anaconda, Essex-class Martial Legacy, Whirlwind-class Constrictor

Rationale:  I increased the size of the Vipers slightly, to 14 Clusters. 


Clan Wolf (effective 21 Clusters; 5 Galaxies; 6 WarShips)

Alpha Galaxy:  The Golden Keshik, 4th Wolf Guards, 13th Wolf Guards, 328th Assault Cluster, 279th Battle Clsuter
Beta Galaxy:  The Silver Keshik, 9th Wolf Guards, 341st Assault Cluster, 352nd Assault Cluster, 3rd Battle Cluster
Gamma Galaxy:  The Bronze Keshik, 7th Battle Cluster, 11th Battle Cluster, 13th Battle Cluster, 16th Battle Cluster
Delta Galaxy:  The Red Keshik, 11th Wolf Guards, 12th Wolf Guards, 4th Striker Cluster, 37th Striker Cluster
Epsilon Galaxy:  The Green Keshik, 5th Wolf Guards, 8th Wolf Guards, 271st Assault Cluster, 103rd Striker Cluster

WarShips:  Sovetskii Soyuz-class Dire Wolf (Flag), Congress-class Rogue, Lola III-class Nature's Wrath, Vincent-class Trailblazer, Valiant; Potemkin-class Full Moon

Rationale:  An entire Galaxy of Garrison forces?  And labelled like a front-line Galaxy (Epsllon)?  That has always bugged me.  I did away with those five Garrison Clusters and instead added four actual combat Clusters.  No other Clan had PGCs or Garrison units considered as part and parcel of their offensive strength, so I removed that from the Wolves.  I also added three more Clusters (one each to Beta, Gamma, and Delta) bringing all give Wolf Galaxies up to a strength of 4 Clusters and a command Keshik.

Total Strength:  25 Galaxies (effectively 117 Clusters) and 62 WarShips

Thoughts?

MA

Seems a better mix and balance than in cannon. 

P.S. As long as the wolf 352nd Assault Cluster is covered in glory, I am more than happy.

You can count on it.

MA

Still don't see how Focht or Ulric will really suffer from Waterly's perfidy. Focht and the Guard fought the Trial to its conclusion (and honorably by some standard) and Ulric earned the Clan''s victory. Waterly is dezgra, and maybe Focht by association (he's a Spheroid after all), but unless Ulric loses some Trials, the original censure for Tukayyid - denying generations of Clan warriors from conquest - doesn't hold.

What's going to be the rallying cry of the Crusaders now? Outside of trusting ComStr to honor the Trial - which any Clanner would do - I'm not sure there's enough to damn Ulric. In canon, there's failure, (Incidentally, Op Scorpion doesn't affect Ulric in the slightest) but in your AU there's victory.

If Ulric has got to go, then he's got to go. I just think using Waterly or a victory at Tukyyid is kinda week.

Just somethinto think about.

I had another idea.  Does THIS work better?

3052: Nikolai is astounded when Ulric informs him that the Scorpions will remain as the sole Reserve Clan for the Fifth Wave of the Invasion. He almost declares a Trial of Refusal, but Ulric manages to convince him that he needs a strong Warden presence in Reserve, should things take a turn for the worse. Still, Djerassi believes that Ulric has made a mistake in assigning the Cats to the same invasion corridor as the Jaguars, and the Vipers alongside the Falcons. He argues heatedly against this, but Ulric assures him that those two Clans need the most help. Djerassi suspects that Ulric is sowing mischief among those four Clans, but after one last attempt to convince Ulric to swap the Cats and the Vipers, he ceases his protests.
As the Wolves and Bears race ahead, taking scores of worlds in the Fifth Wave, Djerassi hopes that his fears are only his imagination—but then comes Luthien. The disunity and ill will between the Cats and the Jaguars doom that enterprise from the start. Still, while he suspects the worst, Djerassi keeps his thoughts to himself, knowing that the highly arrogant Jaguars would not have cooperated any better with any other Clan.
 At this point he learns of Focht’s offer as Tukayyid as a proxy for Terra. It is a challenge—a Trial—in the finest of Clan traditions. Djerassi is delighted when he learns that his Clan will activated for this Battle.
 When all of the Invading Clans have assembled at Tukayyid, the bidding (and bickering) begins—and Djerassi’s hope and faith in the Clan way once again falters. Instead of allowing Ulric to act as ilKhan, each Khan seems determined to win his own fight without assistance. Most ignore Ulric and Nikolai as they plead with others ensure that their supplies are sufficient and protected—and to commit enough forces to ensure a victory. Khan Lincoln Osis of the Smoke Jaguars accuses Nikolai of cowardice, and Ulric is forced to call upon the Ghost Bears to separate the two Khans on the flag bridge of the Dire Wolf. Nikolai demands a Trial of Grievance, and Osis accepts, but Ulric refuses to allow it before the Battle.
 The bidding begins, with the Nova Cats casting aside nearly half of their available forces, bidding just ten clusters in an attempt to garner the glory of landing first. Osis then counters with nine clusters of Jaguars! The Vipers bid thirteen in response. But neither the Bears nor the Falcons will allow themselves to be baited: they bid nineteen front-line Clusters each. And then it is Nikolai’s turn. He bids his full force: fifteen front-line Clusters and the Striking Claw Naval Star.
 Ulric is taken aback by this: WarShips have been bid away since the Battle for Rasalhague in 3050! He bluntly informs Nikolai that he cannot bid his ships—Nikolai asks the ilKhan was he now speaking as Khan of the Scorpions? The Scorpions, he said, have not agreed to the convention to bid away a valued asset of the Clan. And they will not.
 Ulric points to the Jaguar bombardment of Turtle Bay, and he thunders at Nikolai that he will not allow such a slaughter while he is ilKhan. And Nicolai replies: has not the population been evacuated? The entire planet is empty but for the enemy and use. I shall confront my enemy in this Trial with all of my forces at my disposal—for the prize here today is no less than TERRA!
 Osis starts to make a swarmy remark, but between Khan Jorgensson (of the Bears) and Crichell (of the Falcons), he is restrained.
 Finally, Ulric relents, but he warns Nikolai that those ships are not to be used except in the most dire of circumstances—and promises his own Trial of Grievance if that order is disobeyed.
 The bid does cost the Scorpions the opportunity for an early landing, as they will now touch down on the sixth day of the Battle, 24 hours after the Wolves. Most Khans present believe that the Battle will already be decided well before then—for they need only seize eight of the fourteen objectives to win the Battle and thus Terra.
 The Battle does not go according to plan.
 By the time that the Scorpions land, the Nova Cats and Jaguars have been forced to withdraw, neither Clan having secured their objectives. Casualties were horrendous, with the Jaguars suffering an estimated 64% dead and wounded; the Cats a mere 56%. All four of the remaining Clans were engaged in heavy combat, with casualties mounting by the hour.
 The Scorpions, under heavy aerospace fighter cover, landed their DropShips in the center of the Kozice Valley, equidistant from their two objectives of Kozice Prime and Urcunat. Nikolai proceeded cautiously, waiting until of his forces had off-loaded in full before he advanced towards the twin cities. Leaving Delta Galaxy as his reserve, he sets off for Kozice Prime with Alpha Galaxy, while saKhan Posavatz leads Beta to Urcunat. The ComGuard Eighth Army was waiting for them, but they were not prepared for the speed and ferocity of the assault. Every Scorpion OmniMech featured jump jets giving the Scorpions mobility that the relatively inexperienced troops were not ready to counter—and the precise targeted fire that lanced out from the Scorpions tore into the white-painted BattleMechs and combat vehicles cleaving arms from their bodies and turrets from their hulls. Finding that the ComGuards had heavily mined the approaches, and noting that his OmniMechs were taking concentrated fire from the enemy, he declared his opponents dezgra and ordered the suspension of zellbrigen for the duration of the battle.
 Suddenly on the receiving end of the simultaneous fire from multiple Clan OmniMechs, the front lines of the Eighth exploded as Arrow IV began to rain down on atop of them. They broke under the strain after thirty-six straight hours of combat.
 At Urcunat, the Second Army—already understrength and lacking what little experience had been possessed by the Eighth—were driven away by Randall Posavatz in full rout.
 On the ninth day of the battle, Precentor Martial Focht committed his reserves against the Scorpions, with the veteran Fifth Army performing a combat drop directly atop Alpha Galaxy. As Khan Djerassi and his men fought for their lives in hand-to-hand combat, saKhan Posavatz ordered Delta Galaxy to advance and hold Urcunat—and he rushed Beta Galaxy to the defense of his Khan. Seventeen hours later, the Fifth was forced to stop their assault against Alpha to meet the advance of Beta. Caught between two fires, the Fifth Army withered away beneath the Scorpion onslaught. Despite his own heavy casualties, Nikolai sortied Alpha the following day, and the Fifth finally broke.
 Meanwhile, the commanders of the Eighth and Second Armies had rallied their men and assaulted the Delta at Urcunat in force, but a gallant defense by the Scorpions held firm, despite artillery raining down upon the city.
 The Secondary Army tried to bypass the conflict and seize the Scorpion DropShips, but Galaxy Commander Gordan Arbuthnot had left the elite 21st Scorpion Cuirassier to protect the vulnerable ships. Aiding by the defensive weapons mounted about the DropShips, the 21st handily repulsed the attack
With the Fifth running, Djerassi dispatched the a shrunken Alpha Galaxy to hound them in pursuit. Assuming command of Beta (saKhan Posavatz and Galaxy Commander Sandra Dinour had both been killed in the battle), he recrossed the valley again, and assaulted the flank of the brittle Eighth Army. It broke, quickly followed by the few survivors of the Second, but the Scorpions were unable to immediately set out in pursuit.
 Djerassi recalled Alpha, and by Day 16, he had consolidated his forces in and around the two cities, moving his DropShips close to the fighting units where they could be more easily defended.
 On Day 17, the Scorpions came under assault by more ComGuard reinforcements, this time from the Eleventh and Seventh Armies, but they managed to hold both cities.
 By Day 21, the ilKhan knew that the Vipers, Cats, and Jaguars had been defeated, the Falcons fought to a draw, and the Wolves, Bears, and Scorpions were victorious. The battle was in balance, and Ulric was concerned about the status of the remaining three Clans—Wolves, Bears, and Scorpions—and their supplies. The other four had withdrawn, three in disgrace and one licking its painful wounds and mourning the loss of a great Warrior.
The Scorpions had taken grievous casualties, nearly 50% dead or wounded out of the troops who had landed just a few short days earlier. Djerassi appointed Nelson Elam as commander of Beta Galaxy, while he returned to Alpha, appointing Ariel Suvorov as commander of Delta (Galaxy Commanders Morgan LeClair and Jennifer Hardo having been killed). Hastily reforming his units, he consolidated his forces into nine ad-hoc Clusters, and prepared to meet the coming storm as the Precentor Martial desperately massed his forces in a bid to win the battle.
 Djerassi ordered the 1st Scorpion Dragoons, consolidated with other elite survivors, and nearly at full TO&E strength aboard their DropShip and he tried a desperate, last-ditch play. Lifting into the atmosphere, the exhausted ComGuard aerospace forces thought that the Scorpions were breaking and let the ships rise towards orbit—but then they altered course and conducted a night drop deep in the Tamo Mountains. Interrogation of one of the high-ranking Fifth Army officers captured had managed to reveal the location of the Precentor-Martial’s command bunker.
 Designed for secrecy, Focht’s bunker was not heavily defended and the elite Heartvenom troopers quickly fought their way into the bunker, despite heavy losses. The Precentor-Martial tried to escape and evade, but was shot—a Clan medic assigned to the assault managed to save his life however.
 Bereft of their command and control, the ComGuards wavered, and Ulric seized the opportunity—he ordered the Bears, Scorpions, and Wolves to advance! Within seventeen hours, the final ComGuard formation at last laid down their arms.
 Of course, it is for naught. The Primus has launched Operation Scorpion (funny about that name) and refuses to hand over Terra.

that does work better as a turning point and keep warships for when matters turn nastier