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Author Topic: Socialism or not socialism?  (Read 4831 times)

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Ice Hellion

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Socialism or not socialism?
« on: June 11, 2018, 04:41:09 PM »

After exchanging with Takiro about Quicksilver and production rights or going through Master Arminas' posts, I felt the need to write a few thoughts down.
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Ice Hellion

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Re: Socialism or not socialism?
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2018, 04:58:04 PM »

My starting point is that at some point in history, the IlKhan manages to push the Clans towards a real war economy.

This means that all the factories in Clan space will focus on a "few" designs that are all Omni, in order to maximise their efficiency and flexibility. After all, who needs 3 designs when you have one that can do the job?

To illustrate my idea, I will focus for now only on BattleMechs but feel free to elaborate on Vehicles and Aerospace Fighters.

Let's say that for each class, only 3 different designs exist and that all factories must focus on these 12 designs, depending on what they can build, they will build one or several of these BattleMechs.

All the production is gathered and split in 20 (for the original Clans) with each Clan becoming 1/20th.
For what remains, competition is open through Trials.

This will not endanger the biggest Touman as the existing BattleMechs are kept and are either replaced after loses in combat or dropped to Second Line units once the new standardised 'Mechs become more available.

This could in a few years create a bigger pool of resources thanks to the experience in building these 'Mechs.
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Red Pins

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Re: Socialism or not socialism?
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2018, 09:54:24 PM »

Hmm.  Well, kinda.  It also means a more generalized approach to warfare, rather than the idea of specialty units.  Not so much the weapons and equipment payload, but the basic structure underlying it.  Basic speed, no MASC.  Possible JJs, maybe even Improved JJs eventually.  Ammo kept in a given place across every model?  But a general idea of performance and payload might give the IS an advantage, whereas the Clans find their tactical options limited.
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Takiro

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Re: Socialism or not socialism?
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2018, 10:19:56 PM »

Well Quicksilver in my mind was more of a unified war economy than anything else.

Isn't there a TRO that describes Clan industry in a forward?
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Socialism or not socialism?
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2018, 03:42:43 PM »

Hmm.  Well, kinda.  It also means a more generalized approach to warfare, rather than the idea of specialty units.  Not so much the weapons and equipment payload, but the basic structure underlying it.  Basic speed, no MASC.  Possible JJs, maybe even Improved JJs eventually.  Ammo kept in a given place across every model?  But a general idea of performance and payload might give the IS an advantage, whereas the Clans find their tactical options limited.

Just look at real warfare and Main Battle Tanks. Each country has one main tank and older ones in reserve.

Flexibility comes from the combo of the different sub units.
I will try to see if I can define the design across the different weight classes.
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Ice Hellion

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Re: Socialism or not socialism?
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2018, 03:48:11 PM »

Well Quicksilver in my mind was more of a unified war economy than anything else.

Isn't there a TRO that describes Clan industry in a forward?

I think there are things in the two Field Manuals and in the Clans/Wolf/Jade Falcon Sourcebooks.
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Vition2

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Re: Socialism or not socialism?
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2018, 04:03:00 PM »

I could very easily see Kerensky pushing for a relatively uniform military given the lack of resources and population.  Cutting down to the 3 types in Takiro's Quicksilver project, I could easily see a speedster, zombie, and assailant in each weight category - excepting zombie and light, which I might suggest splitting out into some sort of specialist 'mech, perhaps a quad of some sort.

The lack of diversity doesn't really hurt the tactical flexibility of the clans nor the expectations of the Inner Sphere.  There are still going to be so many potential loadouts that preparing for a couple isn't going to help much.  The one thing that will be easier is knowing how much firepower is needed to go downrange to take something out - but that already happens after an engagement or two with a new 'mech anyway.

I do see the potential for odder combinations in upgraded tech.  Say something going from Ferro-Fibrous to Ferro Lamellor and the confusion a force of mixed armor types could produce (or any of the other tier 3 armors).
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Takiro

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Re: Socialism or not socialism?
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2018, 11:03:55 PM »

I finally found that blurb I was talking about but it was a none canon source, Objective Raids 3067 by MadCapellan. While unofficial it is extremely detailed work which is well researched and I have to agree with the conclusions he came to. The following is cut and pasted here for your review and I highly recommend you download this fanfic. Enjoy!

Quote
OBJECTIVE RAIDS: 3067
THE CLAN HOMEWORLDS


Almost two decades ago, the source of the Clans incredible battlefield technology was a mystery, more so than
even they themselves. Over the past years, we have gathered an incredible volume of information on the Clans in our
attempts to defeat them and put an end to their invasion of the Inner Sphere. Following Operations Bulldog and Serpant, the
SLDF has even established an enclave deep within Clan Space, and obliterated an entire Clan. Despite all of our amazing
gains in the past years, however, many things about the Clans remain a mystery. Whilst we have been able to gather a large
amount of data about the Clans’ manufacturing capacity, much remains unknown.

Sensibly unwilling to be forthright with information regarding their military capabilities, what little we know of
Clan Industry comes from what has been made public knowledge, hearsay, or uncovered through the dangerous and difficult
work of our intelligence operatives. What we learned was that the Clans’ manufacturing process is far more complex and
decentralized than that found in the Inner Sphere. Most every world in the Kerensky Cluster is home to at least one small
armament manufacturing facility supplying the fighting forces there with replacement parts, weapons pods, ammunition,
and armor plating, and even their main manufacturing centers are operated more in the fashion of an artisan’s workshop
than an assembly line. Whilst this does limit their manufacturing output somewhat, it allows for an incredible flexibility in
the manufacturing process, where a line producing a Heavy BattleMech one day may suddenly be constructing hovercraft in
only a few short weeks. Experts have theorized that the reason behind such a system is the Clans culture of constant, low
intensity warfare guarantees that industrial centers will be won and lost with relative frequency, requiring them to be
adaptable to the materials available.

That being said, despite our best attempts at creating an all encompassing document, what is available is far short
of a complete index of the Clans’ industrial complex. Rather than leave this information out of the report, however, I felt
that the information we have managed to gather over the years was of such value that not including it would be depriving
those using this report of vital information necessary to our efforts to triumph over the Clans, and would be an injustice to
the brave men and women who placed their own lives in peril to gather this data. Thus, I have strived to provide the most
complete picture we have of the Clans’ military factories and production facilities. Data provided in italics is speculative
data based on the best intel provided by our agents in the field. Rather than list dozens upon dozens of small workshops, we
also choose to limit our report to only those sites producing finished combat vehicles, omitting what would’ve been a
hundred pages of small local facilities that have limited production capacity, such as one which turns out eight to ten small
pulse lasers annually.
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Bradshaw

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Re: Socialism or not socialism?
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2018, 08:45:49 AM »

I would surely think by this time in Canon they would have known. How many bondsman have they captured, Clan Wolf has been basically living in Lyran space for over 10 years now.
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