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UNOTP://OpenMilForum.MISC
Archived 20 July 3093Topic: Sphere Saga Clip - Military Aspects--
RetroWarrior101
Moderator
(8,027 Posts)Given the massive interest in this show/movie/whatever, it’s inevitable that we’re going to have discussions about this, so, in an exception to the rule about entertainment, I’m creating this Topic to contain the chatter. Keep the discussion focused on the military aspects.
Political comments will be deleted.
POSTING ABOUT THE SPHERE SAGA CLIP ANYWHERE ELSE ON OPEN MILITARY FORUM WILL LEAD TO THREAD DELETION AND POSSIBLY SANCTIONS, PER FORUM RULES.
That said, have fun.
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ThegnRules
Grunt
(1,342 Posts)Thanks, RW.
Okay, so my son found the clip online last night, and we watched it together. Besides my usual complaint about war films always lionising the Mechjock and occasional Aerojock at the expense of us groundpounders, I have very few complaints. I’m guessing they edited out Richard Cameron’s assassination and the end of the SL Court takeover to save something for actual broadcast, so not much to say about Kuek as Amaris.
The Royal Black Watch - now, obviously I’m not a Mechjock, but when I was in the service, most MWs drove their rides like you see the Amaris Dragoons doing - reasonably smooth, but occasionally jerking around awkwardly (maybe 1RandolphOnly or LaoHu can talk more about that aspect). The way the Royal Black Watch drove their ‘mechs in that clip though - I’ve only seen a handful of mechjocks move like that, and they were the cream of the cream (the last instance was when we were on a Joint-EX with the 1st Free Worlds Guards - they had one gal who made her Warhammer do a little dance to some music we were playing in our bivouac). I guess they were trying to show that the RBW were the best there was, and if you wanted more proof, those sequences where they took down the Dragoons were sweet.
The comms chatter sounded authentic. As for historical accuracy, Ching’s got a rep to uphold. I’ll be watching this if the local network ever gets it’s thumb outta its orifice.
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Reckit36
Boot
(44 Posts)Just watched this, frankly I expected better. The ‘Mech fights were as bad as anything Immortal Warrior ever served up. What was it, like, 20 head-shots by the Black Watch against moving targets? Srsly? Ur saying the Black Watch was a regiment of KA-Ls? Or that the Amaris Dragoons were just bad? Waste of time.
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OverRhombus
Vet
(4,331 Posts)@Reckit36 - go look up “Gunslingerâ€, then you can talk.
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Reckit36
Boot
(44 Posts)[Comment Deleted - violation of Courtesy Rules, 1st warning applied]
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SoljaGrlNewt
Greenie
(139 Posts)Can someone tell me why there was only one Lance of ‘Mechs on duty at the palace?
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SingleTap
Grunt
(1,923 Posts)@SoljaGrlNewt - Answer depends on who you talk to.
Remember that the Royal Black Watch was only one component of the security apparatus surrounding the First Lord. They were just the most visible (I mean, they had an attached Jump Infantry Battalion just so the First Lord could have highly visible bodyguards in Royal Black Watch kilts almost everywhere he went). Most of the real, day-to-day security was provided by a civilian agency - the Star League Special Security Service.
Now, even though they were supposed to all work together, it’s known that there was some tension between the RBW and the SLSSS. The RBW liked to be obvious in their protection (not hard when you’re driving 10m tall war machines) to deter would-be aggressors, the SLSSS thought this looked paranoid and intimidatory.
There’s suspicion that Amaris influenced Richard to side more with the SLSSS on this matter. The RBW were never going to be completely banished from the Court, but their usual presence was reduced to a single Lance on site, a second on standby at GATEWAY (as shown in the clip) and and third at 5 minutes notice to move at the Barracks. Just how many ‘Mechs were normally on-site at the Court at any given time was a closely held secret for obvious reasons, but historical research tends to agree that the numbers on duty that day were severely pared down from previous years.
Also, as you can see in the clip, the SLSSS trusted in the defences built into the Court, which became their downfall because the one thing they couldn’t counter was that Richard Cameron had shown Amaris how to work the security override panel in the Audience Chamber itself.
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1RandolphOnly
Vet
(3,020 Posts)All right, I’ll weigh in. Took me a while to get to see this thing. I’m assuming they mostly used real ‘Mechs for the battle sequences. One thing I’ll say - they had some good MechWarriors driving.
One example - I *briefly* drove a Thug after the FedCom Civil War when I was assigned to the NAIS Foreign Sources Evaluation Center. Because of its odd waist design and high shoulders, inexperienced Thug drivers tend to get a odd loping gait that causes the arms to swing involuntarily - it’s called the “Thug Shrugâ€. This of course, can add precious fractions of a second to lining up a target with the Thug’s particle cannons. Believe me, my first ride in a Thug, I had one hell of a Thug Shrug. I note that the Thug driver in the clip had *no* Shrug whatsoever.
I also liked the cockpit chatter. It’s a lot closer to real life than the stupid banter, monologues or over-dramatised emoting you see in most other ‘Mech movies. For OPSEC reasons, most MW chatter is business only, and I think they got it pretty close.
If this is the standard for the show, I might give it a go.
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Extract from Reliving it, Almost: Behind the Scenes of Sphere Saga by Livingston Anderson. Pub. Avalon Press, 3105Now, disputes and disagreements are inevitable anytime there’s more than one person involved in a given project. I mean, Luther and I once nearly killed each other trying to work out how to assemble a bookcase - and there was a provided instruction sheet. After almost three years working together, the “High Council†had certainly seen it’s share of debates over plot-points, pacing and characterisation (and believe me, when you have a half-dozen professional wordsmiths involved in an argument, you get to witness some amazing uses of language - ask Deenah about the time she used “apotheosistic†as an adjective. You never saw such synchronised loading of dictionary apps).
We'd also already had one humdinger of a dispute with Camus himself, a year earlier, over the use of Star League Standard English in the show. You see, the lingua franca of the Terran Hegemony was called "English", and here in the FedSuns the national language is "English", but despite being related, these are not exactly the same language (for starters, FedSuns English has substantial French influences in vocabulary and pronunciation while Star League English’s idiosyncratic spelling is directly descended from old American English). However, the shared name of the language has meant that for the past three centuries and change, in the FedSuns at least, the entertainment industry has been lazy and anytime a show or feature called for showing Hegemonists speaking, they simply used Davion English with a funny accent. I know, because I grew up here, and I got used to the convention too.
Camus was having none of that. Terran Hegemony characters on Sphere Saga would speak the correct, Star League Standard English. The Council came to me with their concerns - the TH accent was already going to be a hurdle for some in the audience, we already had scenes in German, Japanese, Mandarin, Spanish, French, Russian, Hungarian etc that were being subtitled, if we had to add SL English scenes to the that lot, we could surely qualify as a foreign language film!
Personally, I agreed with the Council. I was seriously concerned about the ability of our core FedSuns audience to follow the action. So I took up the banner and argued our case with Camus. Camus heard me out, then pointed out that our attempt to be faithful to history meant we had to incorporate Star League English.
I countered that most of the entire Season would have to be in SL English, since most of our main characters were members of the SLDF or connected to the Terran Hegemony. This was too much. FVE would also freak out, since they were holding the bag, financially speaking, and if people couldn’t understand the characters, well, there goes viewership and ad revenue.
Camus settled matters by making a bet with the writers. We would put together panels of ordinary citizens to listen to actors have conversations in Star League English, then survey the crowd to see if they understood the conversation.
We accepted the challenge. Obviously, we couldn’t use dialogue from the actual story without giving the game away, so we wrote a new, generic scene. Camus supplied the actors from his personal contacts (this group included Judith Sharma and Nick Foist, two dialect coaches that Camus was thinking about hiring for the show - they did, in fact, get the job!)
To our surprise and relief, better than ninety-five percent of our test sample were able to to follow the dialogue. Sure, almost all had a bit of difficulty initially, but not enough to make them give up on the task. Camus won the bet, copious amounts of alcohol changed hands (he had cheap tastes by the way - his preferred brew was Pharaoh Beer), and we all went on crash courses in SL English.
As a side note, even though we used a cover story to conceal the reason we wanted people to listen to conversations in SL English, it didn’t take long for people to figure out that this was somehow connected to Sphere Saga. Various ‘Net sites -
Back Lot Access Card was most prominent in this, but there were others - picked up this sow’s ear and made quite the silk purse out of it. The usual form of the rumour went like this: We were testing audience reaction to several unknown actors who had won major parts in Sphere Saga. There was endless speculation about who they might be playing. Someone managed to get a pic of the actors involved out of one of the focus groups. Judith Sharma’s slight resemblance to Elizabeth Hazen sent the UniNet into meltdown. It was all very amusing, except to poor Judith, who had a respectable day job as a Professor of Linguistics at Valencial University on Gambier and didn’t know how to cope with the sudden attention.
Anyway, that dispute over Star League English was heated, but relatively easy to settle.
This new e-mail, however, was not.
After reading Camus’s e-mail again to ensure it actually said what I thought it did (and it did), I sprang out of my chair - instantly regretting it as my recently-damaged ankle protested - flung open my office door (almost knocking out an unfortunate Production Assistant as I did so) and annoyed-limped my way ten metres down the corridor to Camus’s office.
I barged into the antechamber, ignored Ben (Camus’s new PA), threw open the door to the inner sanctum and came face to face with Camus.
“Are you out of your mind?†I demanded as my opening line.
No, Gentle Reader, I lie. What I actually said was:
“ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR FUCKING MIND???!!!â€
(yes, I can speak in Capitalised-Bold-Italicised-Underlined-ese. When U R a riter, U can do anyfink. Thankyew.)
It was then that I noticed he wasn’t alone. Standing just over my right shoulder was a pale-faced young lady with abnormally large eyes (said condition being my fault) who was in the middle of a presentation to Camus about fashions of the Star League era. This, then, was my introduction to Ashia Meldrum, our recently-hired Costume Designer (she recovered from this episode quite nicely - by the time cameras rolled, she had assured herself that I was no more eccentric and moody than any other writer she’d ever met).
Camus didn’t seem at all surprised by my interruption. He just turned to Ashia, and said “We’ll continue this after lunch. Thank you, Ashia,†and then he invited me to have a seat as Ashia gratefully retreated from the office with her materials.
In the time it took for the door to close again, I’d cooled down some, but I was still upset by the e-mail, and told Camus as much. It was hard enough to write the scripts as is, but if we now had to do five localised versions of each episode, this was going to be a nightmare.
We also had an additional problem: when you localise a feature, the usual result is a few minutes added to the running time of one version - not a big deal with a feature, one cut is 106 minutes long, the other weighs in at 109 minutes, so what? But we were contractually obligated to deliver 90 minute episodes, not a minute less, not a second more. Localisation would cause a domino effect. If we insert an extended Scene 56 for State X, what do we cut from the episode to make up for it? And State Y might not have any interest in what’s going on in Scene 56, but may want something more out of Scene 103. So different cuts are going to have to be made for State Y. You start to see the magnitude of the problem.
Camus was aware of all this - wasn’t telling him anything he didn’t already know, but he insisted that it had to happen. This caught me off guard. Camus is often (wrongly) portrayed as a nit-picking, perfectionist tyrant of a director, and while you do need a measure of all of those to be a good director, there was much more to him than that. I hope that what I’ve written so far has helped to paint a more complete picture of the guy. Yes, he could be fiercely stubborn, but there were often damned good reasons for him to stick to his guns on a particular issue. Telling me flat out to make this uber-localisation happen without explaining why was out of character for him.
I looked him in the eye - really looked at him, and noticed how tired he seemed. I decided to change tack, powered down, and just asked him “Why?â€
And he told me. As best as I can remember, he said this:
“Livingston, you know what this story means to me. It has to be done right, or not at all. And we are this close to making it happen. But to get it out to the whole Human Sphere simultaneously, we need to give each state something. And some of the foreign backers aren’t going to come on board unless we localise. We’ll protect the core of the story - that’s non-negotiable, but if GorMan Financials wants a scene showing the extended Marik family having a picnic so they’ll look better, we’ll give them that. It’s worth it to get the story out.â€
What could I say to that? I’d been in his shoes, though never on this scale. Every show I’ve done had some level of product placement in them, and it wasn't always a pretty process to make the placement work. I could tell it was killing him to have to make such concessions (GorMan Financials didn’t actually want that picnic scene, by the way - it was just Camus making a point).
What I did say was to promise Camus my support. We went to the writing team, and here I have to give them credit for taking the news with good grace, and together we worked out how to make this latest complication work to our advantage. The biggest change that this made to our production schedule turned out to be on the back end, which was why there was a full year’s gap between Seasons 1 & 2 and Seasons 2 & 3 to allow us to edit all the different versions (a total of eight, eventually).
Those of you who bought the
Sphere Saga Ultimate Collection can judge how well the localisation worked for each state.