OBT Forum
General BattleTech => Inner Sphere => Universal News & Reports => Shattered Dawn => Alternate Universe => Capellan Confederation => Topic started by: lrose on February 08, 2010, 08:23:17 AM
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General Notes
Warex Liao began developing combined arms tactics for the CC FM:CC p. 10
CCAF is composed of Line, Home Guard and Warrior House regiments FM:CC p. 27
Home Guard - 3 battalions per regiment, 1 of Armor, 2 Infantry FM:CC p. 27
Prior to the SWs the CC fielded 129 Front Line mech regiments FM:CC p.32
Warror Houses not formed until 2nd SW FM:CC p.57
Death Commandos not formed until 2988 FM:CC p. 67
Kamakura’s Hussars formed 2925 FM:CC p. 79
During the reign of Salicia Liao 2542-2551 CCAF grew to 53 mech regiments HLSB p. 39
Reserve formations were created in 2832 (may just be an organizational thing, rather then new units) HLSB p. 48
CCAF had an all time high of 129 mech regiments in 2799. HLSB p. 51
Home Guard Regiments- 3 battalions, 1 of tanks, 2 of infantry, used mainly for defense, 124 regiments in 3025. HLSB p. 69
Every CC world has a militia regiment of 2 battalions of Infantry HLSB p. 72
Capellan Hussars
Hussars trace their history back to the founding of the CC- 1 regiment from each commonality. 1 regiment destroyed in failed coup during age of war- never rebuilt. a second Hussars regiment destroyed fighting FS in 2rd SW. FM:CC p.51
Capellan Hussars formed as on e of Franco Liao’s last acts as Chancellor (probably 2394-2395) composed of the best regiment from each of the 5 Commonalities HLSB p. 30
Red Lancers- originally Second Hexare Lancers, renamed after helping to end coup against Jasmine Liao. FM:CC p. 53
Red Lancers originally the 2nd Hexare Lancers from St Ives formed in 2355, renamed Red Lancers after 2452. HLSB p. 77
Prefectorate Guard ties to Sian formed? FM:CC p. 54
Prefectorate Guard - Raised in 2532 to replace Merik’s Grenadiers. HLSB p. 78
Holdfast Guard - traces to Tikonov Union Guards formed under Colonel Harrison Blandford, Blandford’s Grenadiers was the first unit to deploy to combat. (Note:Holdfast Guards is a new post 3050 name for this regiment it during the SW it was known as Blandford’s Grenadiers) FM:CC p. 55
Blandford’s Grenadiers formed from 4th & 7th Tikonov Union Guards Regiment in 2368.HLSB p. 78
Merik’s Grenadiers Regiment, revolted in 2451, destroyed by 2nd Hexare Lancers (Red Lancers) HLSB p. 34
Confederation Reserve Cavalry
Capellan Reserve Cavalry fought on Lee in 2363 badlt massacured in the fighting. HLSB p. 25
1st CRC operational in 3025 HLSB p. 105
2nd CRC formed ? original homeworld - capella FM:CC p. 70
2nd CRC operational in 3025 HLSB p. 105
3rd CRC formed ? FM:CC p.71
3rd CRC operational in 3025 HLSB p. 105
4th CRC operational in 3025 HLSB p. 105
5th CRC formed ? FM:CC p. 72
5th CRC operational in 3025 HLSB p. 105
6th CRC formed ? FM:CC p. 73
6th CRC disbanded in 2916 HLSB p. 85
Sian Reserves
Kamakura’s Hussars fought on Hassad in 2925 HLSB p. 49
Kamakura’s Hussars formed in 2910 from Hexare & New Westin reserves (NOTE: in 3025 the regiment is not commanded by a Kamakura- this implies the name does not change as commanders change for HL mech units- the same is true of Ishara’s Grenadiers) HLSB p. 93
Ishara’s Grenadiers fought on Hassad in 2925 HLSB p. 49
Liao Reserves
Trimaldi’s Secutors formed in 2984 HLSB p. 86
Vincents Commandos invaded Chesterton in 2812 HLSB p. 47
Vincent’s Commandos formed between 2805 and 2810 from several commando battalions HLSB p. 86
Tikonov Reserves
Kincade’s Rangers -formed ? FM:CC p. 80
Kincaid’s Rangers defended corey in 2789 HLSB p. 46 Note Spelling difference)
Kincaide’s Rangers formed 2985 by defecting FS troops (mercs?) HLSB p. 87
Kerr’s Intruders formed 2950 HLSB p. 87
Ishara’s Grenadiers formed ? FM:CC p. 81
Chesterton Reserves
Kingston Legionnaires formed ? FM:CC p. 84
Kingston’s Legionnaires formed in 2916 from the 6th Capellan Reserve Cavalry and Shadrack’s Shadow Hawks HLSB p. 85
Sung’s Rangers - formed FM:CC p.85
Sung’s Cuirassiers original regiment destroyed in 2668 (seems erronous as this was an assault against the FWL during the SL Era- maybe 2568? or earlier.) Rebuilt and fought on Lee in 2761. HLSB p. 85
1st Ariana Fusiliers invaded Chesterton in 2812 HLSB p. 47
1st Ariana Fusiliers formed in 2388 from remnants of Chesterton Border Guards. Served around the Tikonov area. HL SB p. 82
2nd Ariana Fusiliers invaded Chesterton in 2812 HLSB p. 47
2nd Ariana Fusiliers formed in 2799 HLSB p. 83
Ariana Grenadiers existed in 2785 fought in 1st SW HLSB p. 45
Ariana Grenadiers formed 2750s from several smaller companies, helped capture Demeter in 2765, 2782 led a successful attack against a heavily defended position on the Davion world of New Florence. HLSB p. 83
1st Chesterton Voltigeurs formed 2790s by Chesterton Expatriates. HLSB p. 83
2nd Chesterton Voltigeurs existed in 2988 HLSB p. 50
2nd Chesterton Voltigeurs formed 2790s by Chesterton Expatriates. HLSB p. 83
Hamilton’s Highlanders- formed in 2835 from remnants of Capellan regiments mauled during the siege of Tikonov 2832-2834 (Note: HLSB has contradictions on when this unit was formed) HLSB p. 84
Hamilton’s Highlanders fought against Amaris incursions during the Coup. HLSB p. 44
3rd Chesterton Voltigeurs formed? Fought on Tikonov 2832-2834HLSB p. 84
Lothar’s Fusiliers formed 2850 HLSB p. 85
23rd Chesterton Reserves- formed circa 2830 TR3025 P. 52
St Ives Armored Cavalry
formed in the latter years of the 24th Century, had more then a dozen mech regiments prior to the SW. FM:CC p. 103
1st St Ives Lancers formed July 26, 2373 FM:CC p. 105
1st SIL fought the Syrtis Fusiliers in 2760 on Bethel (almost destroyed) HLSB p. 88
2nd St Ives Lancers formed July 26, 2373 workhorse unit of the Armored Cav FM:CC p. 105
St Ives Cheveau Legers - formed early in CC history, first blooded 2366-2368 on Lopez, HLSB p. 89
21st Centauri Lancers - fought FWL on Anegasaki in 2793 HMSB p. 29
21st Centauri Lancers -formerly a battalion of the SIAC that mutined. HMSB p. 105
Justinia’s Cuirassiers fought against Amaris incursions during the Coup. HLSB p. 44
Justina’s Cuirassiers was known as the Capellan Cuirassiers during the reign of Barbara Liao, Held Marlette 2761-2765 (dates seem suspect) HLSB p 89
Devon’s Armoed Infantry composed of ex-davion mercs- probably dates to late 30th Century HLSB p. 89
Stapleton’s Iron Hand formed in 2986 HLSB p. 90
Cochraine’s Goliaths invaded Chesterton in 2812 HLSB p. 47
Cochraine’s Goliaths -originally formed as the 5th Capellan Chargers in 2805, destroyed 2812, reformed in 2990 HLSB p. 90
Shepard’s Mounted Fusiliers fought on Lee in 2987 HLSB p. 50
Shepard’s Mounted Fusiliers -f ormed in 2995 from mercs HLSB p. 91
Blackwind Lancers - date back to General Kerensky’s crusade against Amaris FM:CC p. 114
Blackwind Lancers- raised as 14th (Zurich) Lancers during the Amaris Coup, 1 battalion served on unofficial loan to Kerensky towards the end of the conflict.HLSB p. 91
14th St ives Armored Cavalry - ref in TR3025 P. 52
7th St Ives Armored Cavalry- existed in 3025 TR3025 P. 90
Capellan Reserves
Justine’s Grenadiers raised from Volunteers on New Florence & Liao at the “height of the Succession Wars†fought on Materan against Atrean Dragoons in 2818 HLSB p. 92
Stapleton’s Grenadiers - existed at the time of Stephen Liao 2430-2450 HLSB p. 34
Stapleton’s Grenadiers - raised in 3001 (contradiction in HLSb over this date- need to resolve) HLSB p. 92
Sarn Reserves
Hurloc’s Hussars - formed in 2904 as 7th Confederation Reserve Cavalry, later reinforced by regular troops HLSB p. 93
Freemont’s Cuirassiers -raised early 30th Century HLSB p. 94
Hampton’s Hessens fought on Lee in 2987 HLSB p. 50
Hampton’s Hessens - 3 regiments, 1st New Hessen Irregulars, 2nd New Hessen Irregulars, New Hessen Armored Scouts - raised from New Hessen, Westerhand & Alrescha nominally mercs- more like house troops HLSB p. 96
Hampton’s Hessens- originally a social organization for retired troops from New Hessen, developed into a home grown militia of 3 regiments. Merc Sup 2 p. 40
Blandford’s Cuirassiers fought on Ulan Bator in 2799 (is this supposed to Blandford’s Grenadiers??) HLSB p. 47
Shadrack’s Shadow Hawks -disbanded 2916 HLSB p. 85
41st Capellan Heavy Assault Battalion destroyed by 1st Regulan Hussars in 2806 Rolling Thunder p. 6
3rd Tikonov Border Guards - existed in 2307 HLSB p. 21
141st & 173rd Sarna Shock Brigades existed in 2351 HLSB p. 23
Early Capellan units (circa 2360’s) include Morcock’s Rangers, Seneca’s Fusiliers, 1st & 3rd Tikonov Lancers and Seluk’s Principia - most lost in the fighting on Lee in 2363 - unknown if they were rebuilt or permantly disbanded. HLSB p. 25
McCrimmon’s Light Cavalry -raised in 2933 HLSB p. 94
MacGregor’s Armored Scouts - raised in 2933 HLSB p. 94
LaFarge Hussars -destroyed in 3010s- not sure if they were a house unit or mercs HDSB p. 93
Unidentitfied aerospace regiment went merc in 3011 and became Hells Black Aces FM:Merc p. 60
Dismal Disinherited formed in 2nd SW from CC mechwarriors who traced their heritage back to SLDF- maybe a house unit??? FM:Merc Rev p. 61
Bad Dream - CC battalion abandoned in DC during 1st SW (merc or house?) FM: Merc Sup Update P. 27
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Rainbow 6
is it just me or did the CCAF form a lot of units in the 2990's?
i'd assume they disbanded a lot of understrength regiment's and formed them into the new one's.
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Ice Hellion
Maybe Maximilian wanted loyal soldiers?
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CJvR
This data (all five) must have taken some serious digging to compile!
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Takiro
It seems with the CCAF there are certain periods of whole scale change like the 2790s and the 2990s usually sparked by a new Chancellor.
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FirstStarLord
Quote from: Takiro on April 09, 2009, 08:40:28 PM
It seems with the CCAF there are certain periods of whole scale change like the 2790s and the 2990s usually sparked by a new Chancellor.
Like I said earlier, it's hard to track the history of many Capellan regiments due to the constant military reforms. The CCAF of 2785 was probably a very different animal compared to the modern incarnation we are familiar with in Battletech.
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CJvR
Quote from: lrose
CCAF had an all time high of 129 mech regiments in 2799. HLSB p. 51
I think we can settle for less than that figure. In OBT the CC annexed about a third of the TH getting access to the enormous resources and wealth of those worlds not to mention military factories and stockpiles left behind by the SLDF. No other SS gained anywhere near as much assets as the CC. After the Jinjiro offensive in 2787 and the following implosion of the FS Terran corridor the CC had well over a third of the old TH worlds with the DC claiming almost a third and the LC & FWL arguing over the last third.
Without that infusion of economic and industrial strength the CCAF strength would peak far sooner, and at a far lower level, and most importantly would fall much faster as well. Unless the historic campaigns of SW2 are very much altered in BTSD the CC will likely not survive SW2, it barely did with all those former TH systems backing it up.
The DC will also have problems, big problems. Without the 40 or so worlds it gained from the TH the DC will also be in a much weaker position. Even the gains made, about 1/4 of the OBT, is a disasterous outcome for the DC. Both the CC and the DC really needed those worlds. In contrast the FS have about what it did in OBT, making it's position much stronger in relation to it's enemies. The LC is the nation that needed the TH worlds the least so they should not feel much of a pinch from not getting any. The FWL got about it's OBT cut but at a high cost and it also failed to hang on to much of it.
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Ice Hellion
Quote from: CJvR on April 09, 2009, 10:01:57 PM
In contrast the FS have about what it did in OBT, making it's position much stronger in relation to it's enemies.
In spite of being a paper tiger.
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CJvR
Quote from: Ice Hellion
In spite of being a paper tiger.
Oh it still is. But the AFFS got almost nothing from the TH trainwreck and fought SW1 mostly with it's own assets stockpiled before the war. Both the DC and the CC made huge gains in the TH, particulary the CC. Without those gains the DC and especially the CC will be in a weaker position. The FWL losses in their Terran offensive might compensate for a while with lesser pressure on the CC but in the long run the CC is in deep trouble.
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Takiro
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Prior to the SWs the CC fielded 129 Front Line mech regiments FM:CC p.32
CCAF had an all time high of 129 mech regiments in 2799. HLSB p. 51
I wanted to begin by focusing in on these two quotes cause they set the bar for the CCAF. I tend to agree with various assessments that during the opening phase of the canon Succession War the Cappies didn't disband or merge their units because of battle damage. This brings up an interesting subject for the first unit I will bring up because we know it exists in the BTSD setting.
Turin Light Cavalry (4 battalions or 4 regiments?)
As you know the TLC replaces the Tau Ceti Rangers in the CCAF Order of Battle circa 2785. This single sentence is the key to my question for you, "Currently at four battalions in strength it will take quite sometime until the Light Cavalry reaches full RCT size as the Chancellor has decreed." So how should we count these guys? Based on our conclusion (see 129 regiments) above Capellan figures could mean an ideal rating rather than an actual facts. This is an interesting Liao like philosophy (and certainly a red meat item to be discussed in Terran analysis for the book) based on the central planning and the command economy which operates at the Chancellor's whim. I could see it.
Existing Canon Units
Okay time to get down to the nitty gritty here and see what all our evidence has proofed out. I shall go by overall parent formations rather than individual Liao units which seem to be very fluid as we can all see. Aside from the Capellan Hussars (4-5 regiments) and the St Ives Armored Cavalry (More than 12 regiments) what else is there? Did any of the Reserve formations exist as it seems they were created in 2832? Although this seems to be contradicted by "Capellan Reserve Cavalry fought on Lee in 2363 badly massacured in the fighting." (HLSB p. 25) And what of the Capellan Lancers (which could include the Preston and Blackwind units)? I see Irose has some findings on the Blackwind Lancers under St. Ives.
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Quote from: Takiro on April 10, 2009, 01:53:48 AM
Turin Light Cavalry (4 battalions or 4 regiments?)
As you know the TLC replaces the Tau Ceti Rangers in the CCAF Order of Battle circa 2785. This single sentence is the key to my question for you, "Currently at four battalions in strength it will take quite sometime until the Light Cavalry reaches full RCT size as the Chancellor has decreed." So how should we count these guys? Based on our conclusion (see 129 regiments) above Capellan figures could mean an ideal rating rather than an actual facts. This is an interesting Liao like philosophy (and certainly a red meat item to be discussed in Terran analysis for the book) based on the central planning and the command economy which operates at the Chancellor's whim. I could see it.
When I refer to a regiment I don't look at the number of battalions- for example the Sword of Light regiments have 4 battalions, but I still count the 5 regiments as 5 regiments, not as 6 regiments 2 battalions-It just seems simpler to me.
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Existing Canon Units
Okay time to get down to the nitty gritty here and see what all our evidence has proofed out. I shall go by overall parent formations rather than individual Liao units which seem to be very fluid as we can all see. Aside from the Capellan Hussars (4-5 regiments) and the St Ives Armored Cavalry (More than 12 regiments) what else is there? Did any of the Reserve formations exist as it seems they were created in 2832? Although this seems to be contradicted by "Capellan Reserve Cavalry fought on Lee in 2363 badly massacured in the fighting." (HLSB p. 25) And what of the Capellan Lancers (which could include the Preston and Blackwind units)? I see Irose has some findings on the Blackwind Lancers under St. Ives.
Let me start with the St Ives Armored Cavalry
First at this point in time the Blackwind Lancers are the 14th (Zurich) Lancers (it was specifically written that way with the parentheses). Now Zurich isn't part of the St Ives Commonality but what if each lancers regiment was named for a different planet- i.e. the 1st & 2nd Lancers are named for St Ives since that is where they recruited from, maybe the 3rd was named the 3rd (Texlos) Lancers, then we could have the 4th (Teng) Lancers and so on. Not sure how we explain the use of Zurich (which isn't even in the CC) unless we just chalk it up to a continuity error from the early days of BT. (adding to the is the Red Lancers, which came from the St Ives Commonality were originally the 2nd Hexare Lancers- but Hexare is in the Sian Commonality)
Next the reserve issue- when referring to reserves:
Reserve formations were created in 2832 HLSB p. 48
This specifically referred to the "newly reconstituted Chesterton Reserves" not the Reserve Cavalry regiments. My question after this refers to those formations (Sian, Capellan, Tikonov, Sarn, Liao & Chesterton Reserves) - were new regiments created for these organizations (doubtful) or was this more of an administrative change- creating a strategic reserve for defensive operations.
It is possible that the Confederation Reserve Cavalry existed at this point. Note that Hurloc's Warriors was formed from the CRC in 2904 meaning the formation existed at some point before that.
We know the 1st Ariana Fusiliers existed in 2785, but the 2nd was not formed until 2799. The Ariana Grenadiers also existed at this point as did Sung's Cuirassiers and possibly Hamilton's Highlanders- all regiments which eventually became part of the Chesterton Reserves. We also have a 23rd Chesterton Reserves formed in 2830
We also have Cochraine's Goliaths which was originally formed as the 5th Capellan Chargers in 2805 - could be others that existed in 2785.
The CC also seems to have a lot independent battalions- several commando battalions were combined to form Vincents Commandos and there is mention of a 41st Capellan Heavy Assault Battalion in 2806.
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Takiro
Quote from: lrose on April 10, 2009, 02:40:23 AM
When I refer to a regiment I don't look at the number of battalions- for example the Sword of Light regiments have 4 battalions, but I still count the 5 regiments as 5 regiments, not as 6 regiments 2 battalions-It just seems simpler to me.
Exactly but my question or point is in reference to the CCAF and how they count regiments. I don't want to get off subject on the Sword of Light but hang with the Turin Light Cavalry example. Their actual strength is four battalions and they probably operate as a single regiment. But the Capellan bean counters because of the Chancellor's decree might count them as four regiments now and that factors into the 129 regiment number meaning that overall number could be lower. I'm trying to think like a Liao remember.
And continuing along those admittedly confusing but idealistic thought patterns do the Cappies consider the Northwind Highlanders part of this 129 overall regiment number? Yes they are mercs I know but Liao has a different command mindset on how they view reality.
If you did these two things the actual number of Liao regiments would be very close to the Lyran number 122. See where I'm going.
Quote from: lrose on April 10, 2009, 02:40:23 AM
Let me start with the St Ives Armored Cavalry
First at this point in time the Blackwind Lancers are the 14th (Zurich) Lancers (it was specifically written that way with the parentheses). Now Zurich isn't part of the St Ives Commonality but what if each lancers regiment was named for a different planet- i.e. the 1st & 2nd Lancers are named for St Ives since that is where they recruited from, maybe the 3rd was named the 3rd (Texlos) Lancers, then we could have the 4th (Teng) Lancers and so on. Not sure how we explain the use of Zurich (which isn't even in the CC) unless we just chalk it up to a continuity error from the early days of BT. (adding to the is the Red Lancers, which came from the St Ives Commonality were originally the 2nd Hexare Lancers- but Hexare is in the Sian Commonality)
I gotcha but are these Lancers part of the St. Ives Armored Cavalry or a different parent formation, say the Capellan Lancers.
Quote from: lrose on April 10, 2009, 02:40:23 AM
Next the reserve issue- when referring to reserves:
Reserve formations were created in 2832 HLSB p. 48
This specifically referred to the "newly reconstituted Chesterton Reserves" not the Reserve Cavalry regiments. My question after this refers to those formations (Sian, Capellan, Tikonov, Sarn, Liao & Chesterton Reserves) - were new regiments created for these organizations (doubtful) or was this more of an administrative change- creating a strategic reserve for defensive operations.
It is possible that the Confederation Reserve Cavalry existed at this point. Note that Hurloc's Warriors was formed from the CRC in 2904 meaning the formation existed at some point before that.
Okay then the Confederation Reserve Cavalry does exist at this time but the other Reserve formations do not. I can see the difference. It also means that
Quote from: lrose on April 10, 2009, 02:40:23 AM
We know the 1st Ariana Fusiliers existed in 2785, but the 2nd was not formed until 2799. The Ariana Grenadiers also existed at this point as did Sung's Cuirassiers and possibly Hamilton's Highlanders- all regiments which eventually became part of the Chesterton Reserves. We also have a 23rd Chesterton Reserves formed in 2830
We also have Cochraine's Goliaths which was originally formed as the 5th Capellan Chargers in 2805 - could be others that existed in 2785.
The CC also seems to have a lot independent battalions- several commando battalions were combined to form Vincents Commandos and there is mention of a 41st Capellan Heavy Assault Battalion in 2806.
These units were likely part of different but larger parent organization not referred to as Reserve. Chesterton as one of the ten Capellan nations that formed the Confederation are likely to have representation in the military as Parent Formations at this time. Also there are important worlds like Andurien which also may have smaller Parent Formations in the CCAF.
The Capellan Chargers may indeed be another parent formation if we look at Cochraine's Goliaths.
A Commando parent organization that preceded the Death Commandos is also an idea. Operating at battalion strength they could be excellent raiders at this time.
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Quote from: Takiro on April 10, 2009, 10:39:26 AM
Exactly but my question or point is in reference to the CCAF and how they count regiments. I don't want to get off subject on the Sword of Light but hang with the Turin Light Cavalry example. Their actual strength is four battalions and they probably operate as a single regiment. But the Capellan bean counters because of the Chancellor's decree might count them as four regiments now and that factors into the 129 regiment number meaning that overall number could be lower. I'm trying to think like a Liao remember.
And continuing along those admittedly confusing but idealistic thought patterns do the Cappies consider the Northwind Highlanders part of this 129 overall regiment number? Yes they are mercs I know but Liao has a different command mindset on how they view reality.
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I can see what you are saying about how the CC counts it strength and that does make sense. I also agree that the CC probably counts the Highlanders as a house unit.
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I gotcha but are these Lancers part of the St. Ives Armored Cavalry or a different parent formation, say the Capellan Lancers.
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I would say they are part of the St Ives Armored Cavalry- I haven't seen any evidence of a "lancers" formation in any of the material. The real question is does the St Ives Armored Cavalry exist in 2785 or is a "reserve formation" that was formed in 2832?
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These units were likely part of different but larger parent organization not referred to as Reserve. Chesterton as one of the ten Capellan nations that formed the Confederation are likely to have representation in the military as Parent Formations at this time. Also there are important worlds like Andurien which also may have smaller Parent Formations in the CCAF.
I agree with this.
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The Capellan Chargers may indeed be another parent formation if we look at Cochraine's Goliaths.
Maybe they were originally the representative of the Capellan Commonality?
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A Commando parent organization that preceded the Death Commandos is also an idea. Operating at battalion strength they could be excellent raiders at this time.
I see the Capellans having a lot of smaller units/battalions, as their weaker strength would force them to parcel out their troops in smaller groups to meet all the demands placed on them.
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takiro
Quote from: lrose on April 10, 2009, 11:22:46 AM
I can see what you are saying about how the CC counts it strength and that does make sense. I also agree that the CC probably counts the Highlanders as a house unit.
Excellent, I think the whole issue of Capellan Counting is a superb insight into their psyche and it does explain why the Highlander issue is so confusing as well.
Quote from: lrose on April 10, 2009, 11:22:46 AM
I would say they are part of the St Ives Armored Cavalry- I haven't seen any evidence of a "lancers" formation in any of the material. The real question is does the St Ives Armored Cavalry exist in 2785 or is a "reserve formation" that was formed in 2832?
Let me say I do believe that the St. Ives Armored Cavalry did exist as a Parent Formation in the Capellan Confederation according to canon. Your evidence shows that by pointing out they had a dozen plus regiments to begin the Succession War with. Actually the Lancers issue comes together thanks to the Zurich (Blackwind) and Centauri Lancer formations which were stated as SIAC in canon. Correct? But what of the Preston Lancers? Maybe they are from a different Parent Formation.
Glad you agree with my assessment on the reserve contingents. Now a good question what were the nation-states that joined the Confederation?
Quote from: lrose on April 10, 2009, 11:22:46 AM
Maybe they were originally the representative of the Capellan Commonality?
The Capellan Chargers could well be the military representatives of Capella true.
Quote from: lrose on April 10, 2009, 11:22:46 AM
I see the Capellans having a lot of smaller units/battalions, as their weaker strength would force them to parcel out their troops in smaller groups to meet all the demands placed on them.
What of my idea for a pre-Death Commando formation?
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Quote from: Takiro on April 10, 2009, 01:09:37 PM
Let me say I do believe that the St. Ives Armored Cavalry did exist as a Parent Formation in the Capellan Confederation according to canon. Your evidence shows that by pointing out they had a dozen plus regiments to begin the Succession War with.
I agree- I think the SIAC may be descended from the St Ives Mercantile Association military.
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Actually the Lancers issue comes together thanks to the Zurich (Blackwind) and Centauri Lancer formations which were stated as SIAC in canon. Correct? But what of the Preston Lancers? Maybe they are from a different Parent Formation.
Ignoring Preston's Lancers for a moment- all of the Lancer units are mentioned as part of the St Ives military- the 2nd Hexare Lancers (later Red Lancers), the 1st & 2nd St Ives Lancers, the 14th (Zurich Lancers), 21st Centauri Lancers.
Preston's Lancers is only mentioned in the HLSB Unit tables- they do not have a description and do not appear in any other books. They are not part of any Capellan organization and may be an error in the book- I really don't know how to explain them (since there is no information on them)
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Glad you agree with my assessment on the reserve contingents. Now a good question what were the nation-states that joined the Confederation?
Start with the big ones:
Capellan Hegemony
Sarna Supremecy
Duchy of Liao
Tikonov Grand Union
Chesterton Trade Worlds
Sian Commonwealth
St Ives Mercantile Association
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What of my idea for a pre-Death Commando formation?
This would be a very pre Death Commando formation- they Death Commandos did not come around until Max Liao.
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FirstStarLord
Quote from: lrose on April 11, 2009, 12:35:06 AM
This would be a very pre Death Commando formation- they Death Commandos did not come around until Max Liao.
Actually it was Max's father Tormax who formed the Death Commandos, Max just refined them into the elite force they became in OBT.
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Rainbow 6
The 21st Centauri Lancers were only a battalion strong when they went merc and isn't there a world called Preston in the Confederation? (Going from memory here as at work Cry)
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Takiro
I can't find a world named Preston and must assume it honors a person. The Preston Lancers also make an appearance in the Succession War game but again that is highly unreliable. Still we'd have to know the significance of Preston.
The Commando formation would have very little in common with the Death Commandos. They maybe elite units operating at battalion strength although they may be organized into regiments. However, they wouldn't be the Chancellor's bodyguard but rather crack raiders focusing on highly mobile warfare intent on destroying the enemies infrastructure.
Other than those I believe we must depart canon influences and just start creating our own Liao units.
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Quote from: Takiro on April 11, 2009, 02:00:55 AM
I can't find a world named Preston and must assume it honors a person. The Preston Lancers also make an appearance in the Succession War game but again that is highly unreliable. Still we'd have to know the significance of Preston.
Preston is in the Capellan Commonality near Sian.
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The Commando formation would have very little in common with the Death Commandos. They maybe elite units operating at battalion strength although they may be organized into regiments. However, they wouldn't be the Chancellor's bodyguard but rather crack raiders focusing on highly mobile warfare intent on destroying the enemies infrastructure.
That sounds good to me.
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Other than those I believe we must depart canon influences and just start creating our own Liao units.
We do have a few canon units we can use, besides the Hussars, Confederation Reserve Cavalry and the SIAC:
Kincaid's Rangers (existed in 2789)
Shadrack's Shadowhawks- destroyed 2916 formed ?
Sung's Cuirrassiers
1st Ariana Fusiliers
Ariana Grenadiers
Hamilton's Highlanders (need to work out contradictions)
Stapleton's Grenadiers (again need to work out contradictions)
Hampton's Hessens
41st Capellan Heavy Assault Battalion
LaFarge Hussars (formed ? eventually became Wilson's Hussars)
We also have potential organizations like the Capellan Chargers. If I had to hazard a guess I would say that in 2785 there were few organizations larger then a regiment in size (such as the Capellan Hussars, Capellan Chargers, SIAC & CRC)- which works well since the CCAF's highest rank is Colonel.
What it looks like is that many CC units are named for commanders.
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FirstStarLord
As I posted in the other thread, there are some other regiments from the House Liao Sourcebook that can be used as well.
Blandford’s Cuirassiers (Possibly the 4th Capellan Hussar Regiment?)
Hamilton’s Cavaliers (Possibly existed in 2785)
Ishira’s Grenadiers (Possibly existed in 2785. Possible misspelling of Ishara?)
Lothar’s Fusiliers (Possibly existed in 2785)
Shimosa’s Gravediggers (Possibly existed in 2785)
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Quote from: FirstStarLord on April 11, 2009, 07:49:18 AM
As I posted in the other thread, there are some other regiments from the House Liao Sourcebook that can be used as well.
Blandford’s Cuirassiers (Possibly the 4th Capellan Hussar Regiment?)
I am inclined to think this is Blandford's Grenadiers and there was just a mistake with the name.
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Hamilton’s Cavaliers (Possibly existed in 2785)
Looking at the reference (HLSB p. 54) this appears to refer to a unit in McCarron's Armored Cavalry- note that the book talks about how McCarron split up his regiments to raid the 3 worlds in question but then in the next paragraph (which mentions the Cavaliers), the attacks are conducted by different units then the ones listed in the previous paragraph. HLSB p. 95 specifically mentions Hamilton's Cavaliers as a part of the Big MAC
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Ishira’s Grenadiers (Possibly existed in 2785. Possible misspelling of Ishara?)
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Can you provide the references for this unit.
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Lothar’s Fusiliers (Possibly existed in 2785)
HLSB p. 85 - they were formed in 2850.
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Shimosa’s Gravediggers (Possibly existed in 2785)
HLSB p. 48 - for some reason I had assumed these were mercs, probably based on the name. The book does mention these being "Capellan reserves" but (noting that reserves has a lower case r indicating it is not a proper name) may just mean they were held back as a reserve to be deployed where needed.
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Takiro
Quote from: lrose on April 11, 2009, 02:17:04 AM
Preston is in the Capellan Commonality near Sian.
Yes, you are quite right. Preston is just above Sian in the Capellan Commonality. As an homage to the Succession War game and their appearance in HLSB (they are listed as a Line Regiment in that book) I'd like to include them as a Parent Formation. Perhaps 3-4 regiments in size so in canon they got smaller and smaller over time. Anyone want to take a stab at their role in the CCAF.
Great, so the (Capellan) Commandos would be another Parent Formation in the CCAF. First off we need a first name besides Death. As I have said they'd likely be the elite force of the CCAF (think US Army Rangers) organized into regiments but adept at battalion sized strikes making them ideal for the Succession War. They probably got a lot of use during the Star League Hidden Wars striking at Liao's neighbors with appropriate degrees of success. Not sure how long they have existed (could go back to the dawn of the Confederation) or how large they are (likely 3-4 regiments I'd guess)??
The Confederation Reserve Cavalry sounds like a mobile response force akin to the Deneb Light Cavalry. Always ready to respond to incursion of the Confederation border. Looking back at our discussions this is a very similar view to what FirstStarLord laid out. There seems to be evidence for 6 regiments again as FirstStarLord pointed out one for each Commonality.
We also have the Capellan Chargers who seem to have 4 regiments or less in 2785. We could eliminate them altogether as the first reference is to a group (the 5th) in 2805 meaning they could have been a new formation created after the restructuring of 2799. I have to mention all possibilities. Either that or we'd need a role and history for this force. I suppose they could be the Commonalty force of Capella.
The Capellan Hussars are well enshrined at this time as guardians of the state and their strength is likely 4 regiments. Obviously they are a Confederation or nation wide unit not limited to a single Commonalty.
Lastly for canon Parent Formations we'd have the St. Ives Armored Cavalry. We know they have more than a dozen regiments at this time so 14 is a good number for me here. Obviously they would be a Commonalty Forces composed of many known Child Formations (see below).
For BTSD purposes we have the Turin Light Cavalry which as you know will replace the Tau Ceti Rangers in the CCAF. The plan is to model them on a Star League RCT. Currently at 4 battalions there are plans to take them up to full strength (4 regiments) and we've discussed Liao Math or Capellan Counting which will be detailed.
The confusing situation of the Northwind Highlanders also would be addressed in a Parent Formation report as it is a critical situation for the Republic I believe. Are they mercenaries, Terran expatriates, or Capellan Regulars. Plus all this impact has to be evaluated in universe as a threat.
Commonality Forces would sort of be like District Regulars for the Draconis Combine or replacements for the Reserve formations created in 2832 which could have marked a major turning point in Liao military operations. Shifted to defensive operations almost exclusively which is a critical difference at this time. We know St. Ives and if you scan the thread I have suggestions for Liao and Capella forces. That leaves at least Sarn (Sarna), Tikonov, Chesterton, and Sian to be detailed.
These four Parent Formations gives us a total of 12 such Meta Groupings to spread among the CCAF for an average of more than 10 Mech regiments for each. Many of the above formations have less than 10 regiments but that makes sense to me as these Commonalty Forces (with the exception of Liao which isn't a Commonalty although you could argue that about Chesterton) would be large garrison forces.
If additional forces for Liao (suggested Commando formation), Capellan (possibly the Chargers but I could see this one more than any other having another unit added), St. Ives (can't see this one at all with the SIAC), or Andurien (I'd say it was a treaty stipulation Liao pretty much adhered to and they just never got around to establishing such a force) there of course would be more.
Quote from: lrose on April 11, 2009, 02:17:04 AM
Kincaid's Rangers (existed in 2789)
Shadrack's Shadowhawks- destroyed 2916 formed ?
Sung's Cuirrassiers
1st Ariana Fusiliers
Ariana Grenadiers
Hamilton's Highlanders (need to work out contradictions)
Stapleton's Grenadiers (again need to work out contradictions)
Hampton's Hessens
41st Capellan Heavy Assault Battalion
LaFarge Hussars (formed ? eventually became Wilson's Hussars)
Some of these and others listed in this thread or the CCAF cicra 2785 thread have stated known Singular Units or Child Formations part of larger Parent Formations. These are Regiments which will fit into the Parent Formations outlined above. I know this is all confusing thanks to the Liao tendency to name units how they do. That should also be another point made in our study of the Cappies.
Next up we need to gather up these Child Units (like the Lost Legion or the 1st St. Ives Lancers for example) and place them with their Parents. Wink
For example, looking back at Vincent’s Commandos who I was thinking about including in the (Capellan) Commandos I see they were Duchy of Liao. Interesting. Could we include this some into the overall Commando story? Maybe Franco Liao's original Commandos? Could they be the Liao Regional Force??
So this post isn't a bad start for Preliminary Findings for the CCAF. Please tell me what you think.
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Quote from: Takiro on April 11, 2009, 01:15:42 PM
Great, so the (Capellan) Commandos would be another Parent Formation in the CCAF. First off we need a first name besides Death. As I have said they'd likely be the elite force of the CCAF (think US Army Rangers) organized into regiments but adept at battalion sized strikes making them ideal for the Succession War. They probably got a lot of use during the Star League Hidden Wars striking at Liao's neighbors with appropriate degrees of success. Not sure how long they have existed (could go back to the dawn of the Confederation) or how large they are (likely 3-4 regiments I'd guess)??
You could go with Capellan Rangers- the CC has several units that use Rangers in the name. I wouldn't think of them as regiments, but rather a lot of battalions, which is probably how they are deployed- maybe 15 battalions in total?
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We also have the Capellan Chargers who seem to have 4 regiments or less in 2785. We could eliminate them altogether as the first reference is to a group (the 5th) in 2805 meaning they could have been a new formation created after the restructuring of 2799. I have to mention all possibilities. Either that or we'd need a role and history for this force. I suppose they could be the Commonalty force of Capella.
I'd keep them in 2785- make them the main force of the Capellan Commonality or maybe the Sian Commonality (although the 5th later became Cochraine's goliaths and part of the SIAC...) Maybe Preston's Lancers were the main force of the Capellan Commonality?
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The Capellan Hussars are well enshrined at this time as guardians of the state and their strength is likely 4 regiments. Obviously they are a Confederation or nation wide unit not limited to a single Commonalty.
We have the following units:
Red Lancers- Represent St Ives
Blandford's Grenadiers - represents Tikonov
Prefectorate Guard -raised to replace Merik's Grenadiers- ties to Sian
an Unamed regiment was destroyed in the 3rd SW by the FS -This unit has ties to either Capella or Sarna
This leaves us with another completely unknown regiment (unless we go with what FM:CC implies which is the Prefectorate Guard date back to the founding of the Hussars giving us all 5 regiments)
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Commonality Forces would sort of be like District Regulars for the Draconis Combine or replacements for the Reserve formations created in 2832 which could have marked a major turning point in Liao military operations. Shifted to defensive operations almost exclusively which is a critical difference at this time. We know St. Ives and if you scan the thread I have suggestions for Liao and Capella forces. That leaves at least Sarn (Sarna), Tikonov, Chesterton, and Sian to be detailed.
Chesterton is the easiest- several of the Chesterton Reserves existed in 2785- I would suggest they become the backbone of the Chesterton Formation. Tikonov could be the old Tikonov Voltegiers or Tikonov Border Guard, Sarna and Sian are big question marks. Making Preston's Lancers the formation of Capella, allows the Capellan Chargers to represent Sian, helping solve some of the issues...
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These four Parent Formations gives us a total of 12 such Meta Groupings to spread among the CCAF for an average of more than 10 Mech regiments for each. Many of the above formations have less than 10 regiments but that makes sense to me as these Commonalty Forces (with the exception of Liao which isn't a Commonalty although you could argue that about Chesterton) would be large garrison forces.
But much like Andurien, the CC never gave up on the Chesterton worlds which is why they rate a force, I'd probably skip any sort of organization for Liao at this time.
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For example, looking back at Vincent’s Commandos who I was thinking about including in the (Capellan) Commandos I see they were Duchy of Liao. Interesting. Could we include this some into the overall Commando story? Maybe Franco Liao's original Commandos? Could they be the Liao Regional Force??
Vincent's Commando's don't exist at this point- they are various assorted commando battalions you want to include in the Capellan Commandos- the unit that we know as Vincent's Commandos is formed between 2805-2810.
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Takiro
Quote from: lrose on April 11, 2009, 02:42:58 PM
You could go with Capellan Rangers- the CC has several units that use Rangers in the name. I wouldn't think of them as regiments, but rather a lot of battalions, which is probably how they are deployed- maybe 15 battalions in total?
I like the Rangers name but how about Liao? The Liao Rangers. Trying to get away from too many Capellan units. LOL, just thought of the Lone Ranger when I said that. Still ain't bad but 15 battalions sounds fine. I also like that cause the deployment reeks of precursors to the Warrior Houses and Death Commandos. Perhaps they'd have infantry and fighters attached as well. What of them being the Duchy of Liao force?
Quote from: lrose on April 11, 2009, 02:42:58 PM
I'd keep them in 2785- make them the main force of the Capellan Commonality or maybe the Sian Commonality (although the 5th later became Cochraine's goliaths and part of the SIAC...) Maybe Preston's Lancers were the main force of the Capellan Commonality?
I'd actually keep Preston Lancers a seperate national force not associated with a commonalty. Perhaps the world of Preston was a big supplier of troops much like Northwind early in Confederation history. Either the Succession Wars might dwindle their numbers or they already have been on the decline much like certain Terran worlds that were important but now its star has been elcipsed.
I have no problem with the Capellan Chargers existing at this time and I could see them as being the Commonalty force but at only 4 regiments? That is the big question to me. I see most of the Commonalty Forces as 10 plus regiment forces like the SIAC. It for this reason I see them as being a specialized national force.
Quote from: lrose on April 11, 2009, 02:42:58 PM
We have the following units:
Red Lancers- Represent St Ives
Blandford's Grenadiers - represents Tikonov
Prefectorate Guard -raised to replace Merik's Grenadiers- ties to Sian
an Unnamed regiment was destroyed in the 3rd SW by the FS -This unit has ties to either Capella or Sarna
This leaves us with another completely unknown regiment (unless we go with what FM:CC implies which is the Prefectorate Guard date back to the founding of the Hussars giving us all 5 regiments)
Big question, here was there one for each Commonalty? That could mean five or six regiments at this time. I kind of thought each Hussar unit represented a Commonalty but didn't know that the Red Lancers were St. Ives. I have two thoughts on possible replacements here if needed. One, I had a House Campaign were I was playing Liao before FM CC was released with streamlined CCAF. Along with the Turin Light Cavlary I raised a new Hussar regiment named the Celestial Guard aka 5th Capellan Hussars. What do you think? Two, is the Capellan government itself which the Hussars are protectors. We know about the Chancellor and Prefectorate but there is also the House of Scions and the Capellan Ministerial to take into account. The Ministerial could be an excellent basis as it divides itself among the Commonalty's. The
Ministry of Resources is located on Sarna, Information Standards on Sian, Trade and Exchange on Capella, Development on Chesterton (which is in Exile on Sirius in 3025 but Andurien might be a great place for it in 2785), Social Education on St. Ives, and Military on Tikonov.
Quote from: lrose on April 11, 2009, 02:42:58 PM
Chesterton is the easiest- several of the Chesterton Reserves existed in 2785- I would suggest they become the backbone of the Chesterton Formation. Tikonov could be the old Tikonov Voltegiers or Tikonov Border Guard, Sarna and Sian are big question marks.
Let me say first off I'm fine with filling the gaps where we have to, so it might be easier for forces we know nothing about. But your right about Chesterton, we know alot of their child units.
For Tikonov I'd love to go with the Tikonov Border Guard as the Parent Formation of that Commonalty. I believe the Voltegiers appeared later but the TBG gives us a more St. Ives Armored Cavalry sounding brother if you get what I mean.
Sarn, Sian, and even Capella (if we so choose) are question marks but I'm sure we could create an appropraite sounding force name based on those two.
Quote from: lrose on April 11, 2009, 02:42:58 PM
Making Preston's Lancers the formation of Capella, allows the Capellan Chargers to represent Sian, helping solve some of the issues...
Again I'm not in favor of Preston assuming a Commonalty role but I could be talked into the Chargers.
Quote from: lrose on April 11, 2009, 02:42:58 PM
But much like Andurien, the CC never gave up on the Chesterton worlds which is why they rate a force, I'd probably skip any sort of organization for Liao at this time.
Right now I'm for skipping Andurien for a Parent Formation but a Child Unit (like a single regiment) is fine.
Quote from: lrose on April 11, 2009, 02:42:58 PM
Vincent's Commando's don't exist at this point- they are various assorted commando battalions you want to include in the Capellan Commandos- the unit that we know as Vincent's Commandos is formed between 2805-2810.
Quite right.
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FirstStarLord
Quote from: lrose on April 11, 2009, 10:56:55 AM
Ishira’s Grenadiers (Possibly existed in 2785. Possible misspelling of Ishara?)
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Can you provide the references for this unit.
House Liao SB pg. 34
The same extract where Stapleton's Grenadiers are mentioned also contains the reference to this unit. Sub-Commander Thaddeus Ishira of Ishira's Grenadier's wrote a journal entry in 2460 about military life during the reign of Stephen Liao.
Also, I'd like to throw in my two cents on the issue of the Capellan Chargers. I see them as a national force. If we use Cochraine's Goliaths history as a clue to the Charger's overall mission profile, then one conclusion that can be reached is that they were an assault brigade. Capellan units traditionally use medium mechs mixed with some heavies and lights in support. The Goliaths on the other hand were one of the few regiments in the CCAF to use assault mechs in large numbers.
Perhaps the Chargers were the "strong hammer" of the old CCAF? A four regiment force of heavy and assault mechs used to spearhead assaults against heavily defended enemy worlds. The very name Chargers seems to imply a more aggresive tactical doctrine then other Capellan units. The Heavy Assault Battalions would have been similar, but they would have been attached to other lighter brigades to give them more punch rather then act as a standalone force.
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Quote from: Takiro on April 11, 2009, 04:32:09 PM
I like the Rangers name but how about Liao? The Liao Rangers. Trying to get away from too many Capellan units. LOL, just thought of the Lone Ranger when I said that. Still ain't bad but 15 battalions sounds fine. I also like that cause the deployment reeks of precursors to the Warrior Houses and Death Commandos. Perhaps they'd have infantry and fighters attached as well. What of them being the Duchy of Liao force?
That works for me.
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I'd actually keep Preston Lancers a seperate national force not associated with a commonalty. Perhaps the world of Preston was a big supplier of troops much like Northwind early in Confederation history. Either the Succession Wars might dwindle their numbers or they already have been on the decline much like certain Terran worlds that were important but now its star has been elcipsed.
Again that is a good idea.
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I have no problem with the Capellan Chargers existing at this time and I could see them as being the Commonalty force but at only 4 regiments? That is the big question to me. I see most of the Commonalty Forces as 10 plus regiment forces like the SIAC. It for this reason I see them as being a specialized national force.
Maybe there were more then 4 regiments, just the 5th had been disbanded (say due to Edict of 2650 ) and was only reformed much later?
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Big question, here was there one for each Commonalty? That could mean five or six regiments at this time. I kind of thought each Hussar unit represented a Commonalty but didn't know that the Red Lancers were St. Ives. I have two thoughts on possible replacements here if needed. One, I had a House Campaign were I was playing Liao before FM CC was released with streamlined CCAF. Along with the Turin Light Cavlary I raised a new Hussar regiment named the Celestial Guard aka 5th Capellan Hussars. What do you think? Two, is the Capellan government itself which the Hussars are protectors. We know about the Chancellor and Prefectorate but there is also the House of Scions and the Capellan Ministerial to take into account. The Ministerial could be an excellent basis as it divides itself among the Commonalty's. The
Ministry of Resources is located on Sarna, Information Standards on Sian, Trade and Exchange on Capella, Development on Chesterton (which is in Exile on Sirius in 3025 but Andurien might be a great place for it in 2785), Social Education on St. Ives, and Military on Tikonov.
It specifically says that Franco Liao took the best regiment from each commonality to form the Hussars- I guess since most of Chesterton was captured by the FS at this point they didn't count- so it is originally 5 regiments. The Red Lancers (nee 2nd Hexare Lancers) are representives of St Ives (even though Hexare is in the Sian Commonality- go figure). I like the idea of the Celestial Guard - but in many ways the Red Lancers fill that role and are responsible for protecting the Chancellor. Blandford's Grenadiers is responsible for the House of Scions.
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Let me say first off I'm fine with filling the gaps where we have t[qo, so it might be easier for forces we know nothing about. But your right about Chesterton, we know alot of their child units.
For Tikonov I'd love to go with the Tikonov Border Guard as the Parent Formation of that Commonalty. I believe the Voltegiers appeared later but the TBG gives us a more St. Ives Armored Cavalry sounding brother if you get what I mean.
Actually I think the TV and TBG were interchangeable but I prefer the TBG - sounds somewhat russian.
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Sarn, Sian, and even Capella (if we so choose) are question marks but I'm sure we could create an appropraite sounding force name based on those two.
Way back in the 2300s, there were the Sarna Shock Brigades. That's possible name for the organization.
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Takiro
Quote from: FirstStarLord on April 11, 2009, 06:47:26 PM
House Liao SB pg. 34
The same extract where Stapleton's Grenadiers are mentioned also contains the reference to this unit. Sub-Commander Thaddeus Ishira of Ishira's Grenadier's wrote a journal entry in 2460 about military life during the reign of Stephen Liao.
They might be a good child unit. My next project is to gather all the children together for parent formations. Also I was reading a little bit and it seems as though the Lorix Order may have been a unit. However they only lasted 25 years and were disbanded around 2700. Still I wonder if there is a Capellan unit out there that adheres to these principles. Likely they would be questionable as the Order was disbanded for questioning higher ups.
Quote from: FirstStarLord on April 11, 2009, 06:47:26 PM
Also, I'd like to throw in my two cents on the issue of the Capellan Chargers. I see them as a national force. If we use Cochraine's Goliaths history as a clue to the Charger's overall mission profile, then one conclusion that can be reached is that they were an assault brigade. Capellan units traditionaly use medium mechs mixed with some heavys and lights in support. The Goliaths on the other hand were one of the few regiments in the CCAF to use assault mechs in large numbers.
Perhaps the Chargers were the "strong hammer" of the old CCAF? A four regiment force of heavy and assualt mechs used to spearhead assaults against heavily defended enemy worlds. The very name Chargers seems to imply a more aggresive tatical doctrine then other Capellan units. The Heavy Assault Battalions would have been similar, but they would have been attached to other lighter brigades to give them more punch rather then act as a standalone force.
You most certainly may FirstStarLord and that is an excellent suggestion. I think that is a keeper. Although in response to Irose's comment I would keep them at either 3 or 4 regiments. Making them a small but effective tool of the CCAF and keep the formation of the 5th as a good indicator.
Quote from: lrose on April 11, 2009, 07:22:22 PM
It specifically says that Franco Liao took the best regiment from each commonality to form the Hussars- I guess since most of Chesterton was captured by the FS at this point they didn't count- so it is originally 5 regiments. The Red Lancers (nee 2nd Hexare Lancers) are representives of St Ives (even though Hexare is in the Sian Commonality- go figure). I like the idea of the Celestial Guard - but in many ways the Red Lancers fill that role and are responsible for protecting the Chancellor. Blandford's Grenadiers is responsible for the House of Scions.
Well I'm gonna go try to work on this. I agree with your issues on the Celestial Guard. Maybe drop the Guard and go with something else. Suggestions welcome.
Quote from: lrose on April 11, 2009, 07:22:22 PM
Actually I think the TV and TBG were interchangeable but I prefer the TBG - sounds somewhat russian.
Way back in the 2300s, there were the Sarna Shock Brigades. That's possible name for the organization.
I like the sound of the Border Guards as well but still remember the TV coming around later as part of our research.
I love Commonalty Forces are shaping up, the fact that they are named for the ancient military of the Capellan states is so cool. Wink We could use the Capellan Defense Force as the Capellan Commonalty Force. They were restored by Sun Tzu, see FM CC pg 75. However, it makes reference to the CDF as a pre-CCAF army. Would they disqualify the name?
The Sarna Shock Brigades (SSB) works fine for me and leaves us with only Sian and Chesterton to name.
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FirstStarLord
Well considering it was the Sian Commonwealth, why not call their forces the Sian Common Army?
Chesterton on the other hand could be something both conventional yet fitting. The Chesterton Borderers has a nice ring to it.
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Quote from: Takiro on April 11, 2009, 08:12:29 PM
I like the sound of the Border Guards as well but still remember the TV coming around later as part of our research.
I love Commonalty Forces are shaping up, the fact that they are named for the ancient military of the Capellan states is so cool. Wink We could use the Capellan Defense Force as the Capellan Commonalty Force. They were restored by Sun Tzu, see FM CC pg 75. However, it makes reference to the CDF as a pre-CCAF army. Would they disqualify the name?
The Sarna Shock Brigades (SSB) works fine for me and leaves us with only Sian and Chesterton to name.
You could always say the the TBG was reconstituted when the CC got mechs. Nice easy explanation.
Capellan Defense force works- it was the name first used by Franco Liao (HLSB p. 5) so I can see it being reused.
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Takiro
Sounds good guys but we are still short. I'll explain in a second. The Sian Common Army I like cause it says People's Republic in so many ways, nice job FSL. However, for the Chesterton situation I'd like something that rings their situation and connects to another piece of Capella. How about the Chesterton Freedom Legion? It sums up their struggle and situation nicely. Oh and for the other Capellan Hussar unit I was thinking the Celestial Hand, kind of the Chancellor's strike force. What do you think
So I was just running the projected numbers of the Parent Formations and trying to make their numbers fit with the stated 129. Here is what I got
Preston Lancers (3 regiments)
Liao Rangers (3 regiments)
Confederation Reserve Cavalry (6 regiments)
Capellan Chargers (4 regiments)
Capellan Hussars (4 regiments)
Turin Light Cavalry (4 regiments*) Liao Math even though they are at 4 battalions
Northwind Highlanders (4 regiments*) Capellans are counting these guys as Regulars even if we don't
Chesterton Freedom Legion (6 regiments?) Liao expatriates from this occupied region
St. Ives Armored Cavalry (14 regiments)
Tikonov Border Guard (15 regiments?)
Capellan Defense Force (12 regiments?) smallest area went with smallest number
Sarna Shock Brigades (13-14 regiments?)
Sian Common Army (15-18 regiments?) largest area got the largest number
With the numbers I used for the 13 Parent Formations I came up with a total of 103-107 Mech Regiments well short of our goal. I kept the Commonalty Forces around the known strength of the St. Ives Armored Cavalry. Chesterton I kept around half that cause it don't belong to the Cappies even though it is stronger in 3025. Figure with battlefield salvage and constantly fighting over that territory it would become more significant to the Confederation over time.
So what do we do? I'm considering the creation of 2 additional Parent Units to split the remaining 22-26 Mech Regiments on. One, how about the Andurien Commonalty? I just looked in the HLSB and the Chesterton Decree wasn't made until 2840 (pg. 58). Two pages later (pg. 60 HLSB) details Commonalities and the story of the Chislholm (Elgin in 3025) Commonalty. Done as a political ploy it was done to win the Chancellor support and it was eventually replaced by Chesterton. BUT could there have been an in between step. Could Andurien have been the Sixth Commonalty of the Confederation during this time?
Still that leaves us one short on my proposed Parent Formations and I have no idea especially for the number of units required. We could revisit BTA's original ideas on page 1 of this thread.
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(missed a few - putting them all in this post so they are in the correct order)
lrose
Just a quick note because I have to run-
You forgot Hampton's Hessens - 3 regiments
I wouldn't create an Andurien Commonality- just doesn't feel right.
Are we saying 129 regiments in 2785 or 129 regiments in 2799 the source material is contradictory if it is 129 in 2799, then it would be less in 2785.
We can have some independent regiments- they do exist in 3025 so there is no reason why similar ones would not exist in 2785.
FirstStarLord
Well, a few suggestions for filling in those gaps. First, make the Capellan Commandos and the Heavy Assault Battalions seperate national formations. Each one could be about 3 to 4 regiments strong. That would reduce the number of regiments in question to less then 20. Also remember that the CCAF did not reach a strength of 129 regiments until 2799, so they may have only had about 115 to 125 regiments in 2785. That would also reduce the work we would have to do. Next, increase the number of Chesterton units by two or three regiments. In 3025 the Chesterton Reserves were the largest force of Capellan battlemech units, helping to guard the border in multiple commonalities. They are effectively a shell organization that the Chancellor can use for whatever military strategy piques his intrest, so it would make sense that it would have been rather large in 2785 as well. Then if all that is not enough, create a formation for Andurien. While I think it was an important region for the Capellans, and may have even warranted a commonality government, I wonder if the Liaos ever truly trusted the local populace enough to arm them in any meaningful way.
LordGrayson
Just wondering as far as numbering units go
41st Capellan Heavy Assault Battalion could suggest there's 40 more independent Batt's that's 12 regiments right there. I don't think they all will be assault might be some recon and other type's mixxed into the batt's kinda coping star league independent batt formations
Takiro
Okay so not alot of support for the Andurien Commonalty, well that saves me from changing the maps which is a good thing. I suppose I could enlarge the Preston Lancers who still need a role. Any suggestions? Gave the Lancers 3 to 5 more regiments which is within reason. Added 3 regiments to the Chesterton Freedom Legion as FSL is correct they could be bigger. Tikonov Border Guard could have 1 to 3 regiments more and Sian since it is so big why not give them 3 regiments more as well.
Preston Lancers (6-8 regiments)
Liao Rangers (3 regiments)
Confederation Reserve Cavalry (6 regiments)
Capellan Chargers (4 regiments)
Capellan Hussars (4 regiments)
Turin Light Cavalry (4 regiments*)
Northwind Highlanders (4 regiments*)
Chesterton Freedom Legion (9 regiments)
St. Ives Armored Cavalry (14 regiments)
Tikonov Border Guard (16-18 regiments)
Capellan Defense Force (12 regiments)
Sarna Shock Brigades (14 regiments)
Sian Common Army (21 regiments)
This enlargement gets us to 117-121 regiments which is a lot closer to our goal of 129 regiments. The 129 number is set by canon (FM:CC p.32) which says prior to the SWs the Confederation fielded 129 Front Line mech regiments. HLSB (p. 51) says the CCAF had an all time high of 129 mech regiments in 2799. Indicating that their strength throught the first 15 years of the war remained unchange on paper. We are close and with the latest adjustment I think we've eliminated the need for an Andurien Commonalty. But we could still have one or two more Parent Formations to split the remaining 8-11 regiments.
Not sure if I'm in love with the Independent Assault Battalions although I could increase the size of the Liao Rangers. I'll see if I can find the reference to the 41st. Oh and I didn't forget the Hessens who according to my research were foreshadowed in Mercenary Guild. At this time the unit wasn't around.
FirstStarLord
In real life, a combat formation's number is sometimes dictated by its parent formation. An independent armor battalion attached to the III Army Corps might be numbered the 31st Armour Battalion. If it were attached to the VI Corps, it would be called the 61st battalion and so on. Maybe the Capellan Heavy Assault units function on a simlar principal.
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blacktigeractual
A couple of things I'd like to discuss;
First the number of Battalions in a Regiment. Regimental Formations vary from between 2 Battalions (A Short Regiment), and 4-5 Battalions (A Reinforced Regiment). A Regiment is simply an organizational framework, so this is not something you need to blame on Liao Math.
(Although I like the term Capellan Counting, lol)
For example U.S. Regimental formations often use a four battalion format, although the Brigade designation has for the most part overtaken it.
Thus it doesnt matter how many Battalions a Regiment has it is its existance as a combat organization that gets it listed, If an opponent doesn't do his homework and treats a unit as a "normal" 3 battalion unit drops in and finds that those battalions are actually Star League style assault battalion of four companies of 4 lances each well...oops.
Second reading between the lines (A la Shu-Li Marshigama's Legionaires as a prime example.) It would seem that the Capellans have a structure like this;
1-House Line Regiments: (Capellan Hussars, St. Ives Armored Cavalry etc.)Units that are tied to the state often tracing thier lineage to the founding member states.
2-Reserve Formations: Supporting units tied to thier Comonalities and often acting as feeder units to a Line Unit.
3-For lack of a better term "Hero Units": Before the great Glass Ceiling imposed by Jasmine Liao Capellan Units probably had a greater degree of freedom of action in tactical and strategic situations, this does have an overall effect on morale. The erosion of this morale has been mentioned time and time again. Perversely this has led to a mentality that in a do or die situation you do anything you can to win, if you fail you die, if you win then the State wont kill you. Although this turns into the "Last Stand" mentality after the 4th War and Romano's purges here it could easily lead to the formation of independent units that are given a great deal of leeway as long as they continue to produce results.
4-Special Operations: Some of these will be special purpose units raised for a specific purpose, covert or otherwise. the SEAL, Delta, Death Commando types may at this point be simply called the Capellan Special Forces, no special or flashy name, but also includes such things as zero-g operations, or Search and Rescue and even, in the 3025 old game; Salvage and Tech Recovery. Others will be Regular units that due to thier home terrain or frequency of encountering a particular situation gain a high level of specialization ie Arctic or Desert specialists, Assault Units such as what was discussed for the Chargers and since this is SciFi after all; Non Terran Environmental Specialists (High-G, Toxic or Corrosive atmosphere; you get the idea.)
Anyway thats my MadCap rant.
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Quote from: Takiro on April 12, 2009, 12:37:49 AM
The 129 number is set by canon (FM:CC p.32) which says prior to the SWs the Confederation fielded 129 Front Line mech regiments. HLSB (p. 51) says the CCAF had an all time high of 129 mech regiments in 2799. Indicating that their strength throught the first 15 years of the war remained unchange on paper.
Actually I think FM:CC either intentionally retconned the HLSB or whoever wrote the FM misread the HLSB and didn't see that the date was 2799. I have no problem have a few less regiments in 2785 and building to 129 in 2799. Or having 129 in 2785 and going down from there.
Quote
Not sure if I'm in love with the Independent Assault Battalions although I could increase the size of the Liao Rangers. I'll see if I can find the reference to the 41st.
Not much to the reference- it says:
In 2808 the First and Fifth Regiments were transferred to the Capellan Frontier where they helped defeat a third Liao attempt to invade the planet Oriente. In the process the 1st Hussars destroyed the 41st Capellan Heavy Assault Battalion, a crack Liao Unit
There may not have been a lot of units like this - maybe just a handful used to lead planetary assaults, since many of the Capellan forces are probably lighter and not well suited for the role.
Quote
Oh and I didn't forget the Hessens who according to my research were foreshadowed in Mercenary Guild. At this time the unit wasn't around.
Okay - there is some evidence that they were around at this point but nothing solid
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Takiro
Quote from: FirstStarLord on April 12, 2009, 12:42:34 AM
In real life, a combat formation's number is sometimes dictated by its parent formation. An independent armor battalion attached to the III Army Corps might be numbered the 31st Armour Battalion. If it were attached to the VI Corps, it would be called the 61st battalion and so on. Maybe the Capellan Heavy Assault units function on a simlar principal.
That could very well be FSL, I don't think another Parent Formation functioning purely at battalion strength is needed other than the Liao Rangers. Although I'm going to classify the Rangers as 5 Mech regiments (15 battalions) as of 2785.
Still need some ideas on the Preston Lancers. I have their back story which details them as a major cog in Liaos wheel early on but I still need a role they fulfill in national military service. Perhaps it is related to their (unit and their homeworld) downward slide. Gonna keep them at 6 regiments.
Quote from: blacktigeractual on April 12, 2009, 01:35:35 AM
A couple of things I'd like to discuss;
First the number of Battalions in a Regiment. Regimental Formations vary from between 2 Battalions (A Short Regiment), and 4-5 Battalions (A Reinforced Regiment). A Regiment is simply an organizational framework, so this is not something you need to blame on Liao Math.
(Although I like the term Capellan Counting, lol)
For example U.S. Regimental formations often use a four battalion format, although the Brigade designation has for the most part overtaken it.
Thus it doesnt matter how many Battalions a Regiment has it is its existance as a combat organization that gets it listed, If an opponent doesn't do his homework and treats a unit as a "normal" 3 battalion unit drops in and finds that those battalions are actually Star League style assault battalion of four companies of 4 lances each well...oops.
Second reading between the lines (A la Shu-Li Marshigama's Legionaires as a prime example.) It would seem that the Capellans have a structure like this;
1-House Line Regiments: (Capellan Hussars, St. Ives Armored Cavalry etc.)Units that are tied to the state often tracing thier lineage to the founding member states.
2-Reserve Formations: Supporting units tied to thier Comonalities and often acting as feeder units to a Line Unit.
3-For lack of a better term "Hero Units": Before the great Glass Ceiling imposed by Jasmine Liao Capellan Units probably had a greater degree of freedom of action in tactical and strategic situations, this does have an overall effect on morale. The erosion of this morale has been mentioned time and time again. Perversely this has led to a mentality that in a do or die situation you do anything you can to win, if you fail you die, if you win then the State wont kill you. Although this turns into the "Last Stand" mentality after the 4th War and Romano's purges here it could easily lead to the formation of independent units that are given a great deal of leeway as long as they continue to produce results.
4-Special Operations: Some of these will be special purpose units raised for a specific purpose, covert or otherwise. the SEAL, Delta, Death Commando types may at this point be simply called the Capellan Special Forces, no special or flashy name, but also includes such things as zero-g operations, or Search and Rescue and even, in the 3025 old game; Salvage and Tech Recovery. Others will be Regular units that due to thier home terrain or frequency of encountering a particular situation gain a high level of specialization ie Arctic or Desert specialists, Assault Units such as what was discussed for the Chargers and since this is SciFi after all; Non Terran Environmental Specialists (High-G, Toxic or Corrosive atmosphere; you get the idea.)
Anyway thats my MadCap rant.
Thanks for the input BTA. We pretty much have shown that reserve units are not around at this time. There would be National or Confederate troops and Commonalty Forces as we have shown. Elite Forces like the Liao Rangers also are present. Home Guard formations would be available at this time much like Terran SDFs. Glad you like Capellan Counting, it is a nice concept for the book. Wink
Quote from: lrose on April 12, 2009, 02:01:58 AM
Actually I think FM:CC either intentionally retconned the HLSB or whoever wrote the FM misread the HLSB and didn't see that the date was 2799. I have no problem have a few less regiments in 2785 and building to 129 in 2799. Or having 129 in 2785 and going down from there.
Certainly, I agree with you on those points wholeheartedly. The reason I keep going back to the 129 number is a stubborn attitude present in the Liao spirit that we should not forget when assembling this report.
Quote from: lrose on April 12, 2009, 02:01:58 AM
Not much to the reference- it says:
In 2808 the First and Fifth Regiments were transferred to the Capellan Frontier where they helped defeat a third Liao attempt to invade the planet Oriente. In the process the 1st Hussars destroyed the 41st Capellan Heavy Assault Battalion, a crack Liao Unit
Ah well that is twenty plus years from 2785 so alot could happen between then and now.
How did you guys like the Celestial Hand as a Capellan Hussar regiment?
BTW, gonna have the TBG go to the high end at 18 regiments. That still keeps the average for all 6 Commonalty Forces at 14 regiments each which is what St. Ives has. Works nicely.
So numbers wise we have 121 of 129 regiments accounted for.
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FirstStarLord
Quote from: Takiro on April 12, 2009, 02:43:11 AM
Still need some ideas on the Preston Lancers. I have their back story which details them as a major cog in Liaos wheel early on but I still need a role they fulfill in national military service. Perhaps it is related to their (unit and their homeworld) downward slide. Gonna keep them at 6 regiments.
Make them masters of guerrilla warfare, the forefathers of modern Capellan defensive tactics. Their intial belligerence towards Capellan rule put them forever under the thumb of the Maskirovka. Only through dedicated and unquestioning service to the CCAF can each generation ever hope to prove their worthiness for citizenship.
Quote from: Takiro on April 12, 2009, 02:43:11 AM
How did you guys like the Celestial Hand as a Capellan Hussar regiment?
It's a good name, but maybe its role should be redefined. Perhaps it should represent the unbreakable bond between the Capellan people and the will of the Chancellor. In that role it is the regiment called out to defend the most critical planets. That would explain why of all of the Hussars units, it became the only one to be destroyed before the 4th SW.
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FirstStarLord
Sorry to double post, but I have some interesting news. On pg. 244 of TRO 3075 there is a mention of another Capellan regiment: the Fifteenth Sian Dragoons. I don't know how that fits into our current plans, but its there.
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Quote from: FirstStarLord on April 12, 2009, 07:48:37 AM
Sorry to double post, but I have some interesting news. On pg. 244 of TRO 3075 there is a mention of another Capellan regiment: the Fifteenth Sian Dragoons. I don't know how that fits into our current plans, but its there.
That would be the name of the Sian Commanality forces. I would just use Sian Dragoons, rather then Sian Common Army.
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Rainbow 6
If the CCAF count the Northwind Highlander Regiments towards there 129 regiment strength would they also count the 3rd Kearny Highlanders & Stewart's Highlanders? (making 123)
Also if there is evidence of the Regimnets that make up Hampton's Hessens existing how about finding some way of putting them in as house units but, maybe as part of the Tikonov Border Guards. (making 126)
I'm assuming the CCAF counts chartered mercenaries as part of there 129 regiment strength, in which case you could add the 15th Dracon to the list. (making 127)
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CJvR
Quote from: lrose
I have no problem have a few less regiments in 2785 and building to 129 in 2799. Or having 129 in 2785 and going down from there.
Actually increasing the number of formations is not that big a deal as long as it is not accompanied by a corresponding increase in capability. The CCAF could very well have continued to raise new formations rather than bringing their existing ones up to strength. This is generally an inefficient manner for raising new forces but the CCAF might not have been able to spare the decimated remnants of it's original fighting formations from the frontlines for a proper rebuild. Such a policy would greatly help in explaining the CCAF's troubles since green units without an experienced cadre of veterans to stiffen them will suffer badly in their first few engagements learning the hard way what the cadre would have told them about what works and what doesn't on the battlefield.
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Takiro
Quote from: FirstStarLord on April 12, 2009, 05:56:46 AM
Make them masters of guerrilla warfare, the forefathers of modern Capellan defensive tactics. Their intial belligerence towards Capellan rule put them forever under the thumb of the Maskirovka. Only through dedicated and unquestioning service to the CCAF can each generation ever hope to prove their worthiness for citizenship.
I don't see the Preston relationship with the Confederation being adversarial. Here is what we know, Preston is one jump away from Sian but it is on the Capellan side of the border. I was thinking that Preston was a key stopover between those two important worlds way back when. They had a high population and proved to be in a strategically vital location making them excellent recruits of the Capellan Hegemony. I don't see any wars between Sian and Capella early on though. Although Hexare is another world that is nearby and related to the Capellan Hussars? Any similarities there? They could be friendly rivals of the Highlanders each striving to prove themselves better. Anyway I figure what ever Preston's importance was it has been gradually diminshing. I don't see their specialty being defensive warfare. Marines? What else is left?
Quote from: FirstStarLord on April 12, 2009, 05:56:46 AM
It's a good name, but maybe its role should be redefined. Perhaps it should represent the unbreakable bond between the Capellan people and the will of the Chancellor. In that role it is the regiment called out to defend the most critical planets. That would explain why of all of the Hussars units, it became the only one to be destroyed before the 4th SW.
The Celestial Hand sounds good. Wink
Quote from: FirstStarLord on April 12, 2009, 07:48:37 AM
Sorry to double post, but I have some interesting news. On pg. 244 of TRO 3075 there is a mention of another Capellan regiment: the Fifteenth Sian Dragoons. I don't know how that fits into our current plans, but its there.
Good spot FSL! Reading the section and the Mech in it seems like the Koschei is a premier heavy unit. However it is also fast and well armored. The warrior killed over a dozen BattleAxes and was a poster boy for fighting the Federated Suns. So it seems as though the 15th Sian Dragoons would be an excellent child unit of the SCA.
Quote from: lrose on April 12, 2009, 09:11:27 AM
That would be the name of the Sian Commanality forces. I would just use Sian Dragoons, rather then Sian Common Army.
I disagree. The SCA should be the overall name of the Provincial Force as the SIAC is in their area. The Sian Dragoons are simply analogous to the St. Ives Lancers, a child unit.
Quote from: Rainbow 6 on April 12, 2009, 11:28:53 AM
If the CCAF count the Northwind Highlander Regiments towards there 129 regiment strength would they also count the 3rd Kearny Highlanders & Stewart's Highlanders? (making 123)
Also if there is evidence of the Regimnets that make up Hampton's Hessens existing how about finding some way of putting them in as house units but, maybe as part of the Tikonov Border Guards. (making 126)
I'm assuming the CCAF counts chartered mercenaries as part of there 129 regiment strength, in which case you could add the 15th Dracon to the list. (making 127)
I will check into the mercenary numbering situation. What evidence exists that the Hessens are around at this time? Back when I researched the Mercenary Guild fanbook it seemed they were way off. The 258th Dragoons and other regiments are littered with hints of forerunners.
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Takiro
Quote from: CJvR on April 12, 2009, 12:12:58 PM
Actually increasing the number of formations is not that big a deal as long as it is not accompanied by a corresponding increase in capability. The CCAF could very well have continued to raise new formations rather than bringing their existing ones up to strength. This is generally an inefficient manner for raising new forces but the CCAF might not have been able to spare the decimated remnants of it's original fighting formations from the frontlines for a proper rebuild. Such a policy would greatly help in explaining the CCAF's troubles since green units without an experienced cadre of veterans to stiffen them will suffer badly in their first few engagements learning the hard way what the cadre would have told them about what works and what doesn't on the battlefield.
Well said.
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uote from: Takiro on April 12, 2009, 12:31:27 PM
I will check into the mercenary numbering situation. What evidence exists that the Hessens are around at this time? Back when I researched the Mercenary Guild fanbook it seemed they were way off. The 258th Dragoons and other regiments are littered with hints of forerunners.
Looking back at Merc Sup 2 it's very vague when the original social club founded and when it developed into a merc unit. Since there is nothing concrete we can put their formation later in the SW.
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Takiro
Sounds good Irose.
I’ve been playing unit jumble to account for the final eight regiments of the CCAF and have hit upon the answer. Except for the Turin Light Cavalry (only 4 battalions) and Mercenaries the Capellans have no returning soldiers from the SLDF. Based on elements joined the Capellan Confederation from the SLSB which is unused and a couple of different post I’ve cobbled together this final parent organization. You’ll find a little input from BTA and FSL in there if you look real close.
Baranov’s Regulars (8 regiments)
Faced with the prospect of returning Capellan nationals and those citizens who espoused Star League ideals polluting Liao military establishment a new unit was created to keep all the bad eggs in one basket. They are named for their commander and the Star League Regulars who now fight to uphold Liao’s rightful claim to the First Lordship. Their “foreign values†may have forever put them under the thumb of the Maskirovka. Only through dedicated and unquestioning service to the CCAF can these soldiers ever hope to prove their worthiness for citizenship. Despite the clash of military doctrines the Regulars are an invaluable force to the Chancellor.
Elements joined the Capellan Confederation
133rd Jump Infantry Division
202nd Mechanized Infantry Division (The Pride of Cuba)
147th Mechanized Infantry Division
265th Mechanized Infantry Division (Pride of Pittsburgh)
166th Mechanized Infantry Division (Red Diamond Division)
7th Jump Infantry Division
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Quote from: Takiro on April 12, 2009, 02:05:57 PM
Baranov’s Regulars (8 regiments)
Faced with the prospect of returning Capellan nationals and those citizens who espoused Star League ideals polluting Liao military establishment a new unit was created to keep all the bad eggs in one basket. They are named for their commander and the Star League Regulars who now fight to uphold Liao’s rightful claim to the First Lordship. Their “foreign values†may have forever put them under the thumb of the Maskirovka. Only through dedicated and unquestioning service to the CCAF can these soldiers ever hope to prove their worthiness for citizenship. Despite the clash of military doctrines the Regulars are an invaluable force to the Chancellor.
Elements joined the Capellan Confederation
133rd Jump Infantry Division
202nd Mechanized Infantry Division (The Pride of Cuba)
147th Mechanized Infantry Division
265th Mechanized Infantry Division (Pride of Pittsburgh)
166th Mechanized Infantry Division (Red Diamond Division)
7th Jump Infantry Division
Add in this bit:
Dismal Disinherited formed in 2nd SW from CC mechwarriors who traced their heritage back to SLDF- maybe a house unit??? FM:Merc Rev p. 61
Not sure how useful it is but..
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Takiro
Oh very good. We can certainly drop a few hints in there concerning the future Dismal D. I could see some of the merc SL unit and these guys uniting in the future to become them. I think this is all very good.
CCAF
Mech Strength: 129 regiments
Preston Lancers (6 regiments)
Liao Rangers (5 regiments)
Confederation Reserve Cavalry (6 regiments)
Capellan Chargers (4 regiments)
Capellan Hussars (4 regiments)
Baranov’s Regulars (8 regiments)
Turin Light Cavalry (4 regiments*)
Northwind Highlanders (4 regiments*)
Chesterton Freedom Legion (9 regiments)
St. Ives Armored Cavalry (14 regiments)
Tikonov Border Guard (18 regiments)
Capellan Defense Force (12 regiments)
Sarna Shock Brigades (14 regiments)
Sian Common Army (21 regiments)
Issues to reslove yet. Place known child units and the role of Preston Lancers (I'd like to have the appropriate niche for them, nothing has felt right thus far). After that I believe our outline of the CCAF is done.
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CJvR
Quote from: Takiro
Sian Common Army (21 regiments)
You are actually going to call them that!?!
Why not a less demoralizing name like "The Bullet catchers", "The Meatwalls", "The Mine Detectors", "The Shrapnel Blockers" or "The Utterly Expendable"?
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LordGrayson
Preston Lancers
How about having them start as the House Liao's version of the royal guard's that get replaced by the capellan hussars when their formed up. Regulating them to regular house unit status with some perk's and from there slowly going down in status as the best pilots choose serves in the Hussar's over them. This might make the two formations rival's on some parts as the lancer's try to reclaim thier status and try to upstage the hussar's.
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Takiro
Quote from: CJvR on April 12, 2009, 04:16:01 PM
You are actually going to call them that!?!
Why not a less demoralizing name like "The Bullet catchers", "The Meatwalls", "The Mine Detectors", "The Shrapnel Blockers" or "The Utterly Expendable"?
Do you have a better idea? The Sian Common Army was proposed and accepted as the Commonalty Force of that region. These Commonalty formations were named for their nation-state predecessor. As they were representing the Sian Commonwealth the Common Army didn't sound so bad. Plus to me it had the ring of People's Army which is very Communist, I mean Capellan. Now there is no canon example so I'm opened to suggestions but please try and calm down.
Quote from: LordGrayson on April 12, 2009, 04:23:55 PM
Preston Lancers
How about having them start as the House Liao's version of the royal guard's that get replaced by the capellan hussars when their formed up. Regulating them to regular house unit status with some perk's and from there slowly going down in status as the best pilots choose serves in the Hussar's over them. This might make the two formations rival's on some parts as the lancer's try to reclaim thier status and try to upstage the hussar's.
Hmm, perhaps they were the Honor Guard of the Capellan Hegemony and I do see them having a rivalry with the Northwind Highlanders and even the Capellan Hussars. Maybe they are in a contest as to see which unit is the most Capellan. Traditionalist in the strict sense. Proud of their history. Slow to adapt. They evoke strong feelings even among Capellan troops. That isn't bad.
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Rainbow 6
Quote from: LordGrayson on April 12, 2009, 04:23:55 PM
Preston Lancers
How about having them start as the House Liao's version of the royal guard's that get replaced by the capellan hussars when their formed up. Regulating them to regular house unit status with some perk's and from there slowly going down in status as the best pilots choose serves in the Hussar's over them. This might make the two formations rival's on some parts as the lancer's try to reclaim thier status and try to upstage the hussar's.
Sounds good too me.
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CJvR
Quote from: Takiro
Do you have a better idea? The Sian Common Army was proposed and accepted as the Commonalty Force of that region. These Commonalty formations were named for their nation-state predecessor. As they were representing the Sian Commonwealth the Common Army didn't sound so bad. Plus to me it had the ring of People's Army which is very Communist, I mean Capellan. Now there is no canon example so I'm opened to suggestions but please try and calm down.
No worry Im quite calm, just thought it was an appaling name for an army.
Som Com... er Capellan suggestions.
Sian Citizen Army.
Sian Citizen Milita.
Sian Popular Guard.
Sian Peoples Army.
Sian Commonality Levy.
Commonality Guard of Sian.
Citizens Legions of Sian.
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Takiro
Hmm, not bad. I'll let everyone sound off before a decision is made. So chime in everyone. Which do you like? Or do you have one of your own that is better?
I'm assembling an overview that includes known child units now. Smiley
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MechRat
Hmmm, I think a combination of all the choices might be good. Something like Sian Commonality Guard?
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I prefer Sian Citizens Army or Sian Peoples Army personally.
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Takiro
Ok people hold the phone. While checking out Child Units for each established Parental Formation I have found that the Blackwind Lancers are not part of the SIAC but rather their own independent organization. Additionally their fluff brings me to a conclusion that there was a larger Capellan Lancer formation that probably included the Preston Lancers as a child unit. Thoughts?
Please continue on the Sian naming convention.
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FirstStarLord
Quote from: CJvR on April 12, 2009, 09:29:34 PM
No worry Im quite calm, just thought it was an appaling name for an army.
I guess I should defend my choice here...
Blame the Scots. Wink
"Common Army" is a double play on words. As Takiro pointed out, it sounds like something the descendents of Communist Chinese immigrants might name their military force, but it has Celtic orgins as well (and Scots are a prominant part of the Capellan population). The Common Army was the main body of the medieval Scottish Army, as opposed to the professional kinghts and mercenary bodygards of the king. Men from each region were levied into units in a time a war, and of course each region tended to have their own speciality in combat.
Also, "good morale" and "Capellan" in the same sentence? That's a paradox in logic if I've ever heard one. Cheesy
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LordGrayson
Quote from: Takiro on April 12, 2009, 11:56:52 PM
Ok people hold the phone. While checking out Child Units for each established Parental Formation I have found that the Blackwind Lancers are not part of the SIAC but rather their own independent organization. Additionally their fluff brings me to a conclusion that there was a larger Capellan Lancer formation that probably included the Preston Lancers as a child unit. Thoughts?
Please continue on the Sian naming convention.
Hmm isn't the larger formation called the confederate lancers or some thing with like a total of 14 regiments? or at lest one of there units being called the 14th lancer regiment think it was the black lancers not sure on that tho.
This larger formation could most likely be sub divided into 3 sections the Preston lancers, Hexare Lancers and the blackwind lancers, also this larger formation could just be around for simply for paperwork and supply networking(personal transfers,ship movements and such) and simple be a HQ naming for ea regiment.
CapCon Lancers
1st Regiment Unnamed hexare lancer regiment taken out by 2nd Hexare lancers regiment
2nd Regiment 2nd Hexare lancer(red lancer) Independent hvy regiment
3rd-12th lancers Preston lancers? independent light/medium regiments?
13th,14th Blackwind lancers?(1st and 2nd)? independent medium to hvy regiments?
(on one thought could theses lancer regiments been something like the FWL's MM just wondering,just with a better name Smiley )
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Takiro
Phew, after many hours of work I think I've completed the Overview for the CCAF. Hopefully this will stand up as the template for the written section. Please pick it apart and comment. Sorry for the last second addition of the Capellan Lancers, hopefully you'll like them as much as I do. Really tried to meld everything together. Enjoy!
Capellan Confederation Armed Forces (CCAF)
129 BattleMech Regiments (as of 2785)
Liao Rangers (5 regiments)
Overview: The Rangers are closely linked to the Duchy of Liao and the ruling House of the Confederation. As one of the elite forces of the CCAF (think US Army Rangers) they are adept at rapid battalion sized strikes making them ideal for modern combat. Their brand of highly mobile warfare has been honed as recently as the Star League’s infamous Hidden Wars. Striking at Liao's neighbors with a high degree of success is already second nature to these crack troops.
Inspiration: Vincent’s Commandos who according to HLSB were formed in 2805-2810 from “various commando battalions†provided much of the canon inspiration for the Rangers. They are also meant to provide Liao with an appropriate elite force and foreshadow the coming of the Warrior Houses and Death Commandos.
Child Units: Organized into 15 BattleMech battalions supported by infantry and aerofighters they are likely numerical in organization although there could be a certain amount of “hero units†I suppose likely one based on Vincent’s Commandos.
Confederation Reserve Cavalry (6 regiments)
Overview: The rapid response forces of Capella are the Confederation Reserve Cavalry. Akin to the Star League’s Deneb Light Cavalry they are pre-positioned by the Strategios across the realm. Their deployment is subject to constant review in order to best react to any hostile incursion. Traditionally there is one for each Commonalty including Chesterton.
Inspiration: Established canon formation, see HLSB and FM CC
Child Units: Perhaps the simplest of the CCAF units to detail as they maintain the 1st through the 6th Cavalry regiments often rebuilding units if I remember correctly.
Capellan Chargers (4 regiments)
Overview: The Chargers are the "strong hammer" of the Capellan military. Quite simply they are a four regiment force of heavy and assault BattleMechs used to spearhead assaults against heavily defended enemy worlds. The Chargers carry this aggressive tactical doctrine to its end point both on and off the battlefield. Typical their members are described as brash and callous in manner. In other words they come straight to the point and won’t hesitate to fight if provoked.
Inspiration: FirstStarLord developed the basic Charger role from the history of Cochraine's Goliaths. Building on their profile as a clue to the Charger's overall mission profile, he surmised that the Chargers were an assault brigade. Usually Capellan units are composed of medium mechs mixed with some heavies and lights in support. The Goliaths on the other hand were one of the few regiments in the CCAF to use assault mechs in large numbers.
Child Units: As the 5th Capellan Chargers (Cochraine's Goliaths) are listed numerically it is assumed that the 1st through 4th would be as well in 2785.
Capellan Hussars (4 regiments)
Overview: The guardians of the state we all know from BT and admire
Inspiration: Established canon formation, see HLSB and FM CC
Child Units: The Red Lancers, The Prefectorate Guard, Blandford's Grenadiers, The Celestial Hand. The fourth and final Capellan Hussar regiment represents the unbreakable bond between the Capellan people and the will of the Chancellor. In that role this regiment called out to defend the most critical planets. This explains why of all of the Hussars units it became the only one to be destroyed before the 4th SW.
Baranov’s Regulars (6 regiments)
Overview: Faced with the prospect of returning Capellan nationals and those citizens who espoused Star League ideals polluting Liao military establishment a new unit was created to keep all the bad eggs in one basket. They are named for their commander and the Star League Regulars who now fight to uphold Liao’s rightful claim to the First Lordship. Their “foreign values†may have forever put them under the thumb of the Maskirovka. Only through dedicated and unquestioning service to the CCAF can these soldiers ever hope to prove their worthiness for citizenship. Despite the clash of military doctrines the Regulars are an invaluable force to the Chancellor.
Justification: The last CCAF Parent Formation created, they address the question what happened to all the Capellans returning from SLDF service. Assembled from elements joined the Capellan Confederation in the SLSB.
Child Units: It is possible that the regiments of the Regulars reflect the SL units who mainly made up this formation. 133rd Jump Infantry Division, 202nd Mechanized Infantry Division (The Pride of Cuba), 147th Mechanized Infantry Division, 265th Mechanized Infantry Division (Pride of Pittsburgh), 166th Mechanized Infantry Division (Red Diamond Division), and 7th Jump Infantry Division. They could also contain some or all of the ancestors of the Dismal Disinherited which were assembled in the 2nd Succession War from Capellan Mechwarriors who traced their heritage back to SLDF so their units could also be foreshadowed here.
Capellan Lancers (12 regiments)
Overview: Several times throughout its history the Confederation has recruited line military units from specific worlds. This whole scale conscription seems arbitrary and ill-conceived to foreigners who individually elect to join the military. In Capellan society such efforts are considered the norm as the individual rights are less important then the well being of the whole. The Lancer Program fosters a special camaraderie among its participants who have the high honor of being chosen to serve the state. Their world is also rewarded with service benefits and recognition which provide significant boosts to the locale economy. Potential aspirants, often Home Guard units, train along senior Lancer formations like the 1st (Preston) Lancers. The 1st claims to have instructed many illustrious Capellan units like the Red Lancers and the St. Ives Lancers. Many groups across the nation have tried to become Capellan Lancers but few who do succeed. Graduate units either stay with the Parent Formation and become teachers themselves or go onto serve in other Line Formations. As such they are Liao’s version of training cadre essentially serving up feeder units for the Confederation military.
Inspiration: Blackwind, Preston (appearing in the HLSB and the Succession War board game their appearance in BTSD is homage to those limited sightings), and many other Capellan Lancers served as my muse here as I took the Confederation’s mass recruitment efforts to heart.
Child Units: Capellan Lancers are typically numbered and named for their world of origin. Known members would be the 1st (Preston) Lancers and the 14th (Zurich) Lancers. Possible graduates could be the Red Lancers, St. Ives Lancers, 21st Centauri Lancers, etc.
1st (Preston) Lancers would keep much of the history I was assembling for that Formation. The world of Preston is located just above Sian in the Capellan Commonality. This proud member of the Confederation along with its fanatical soldiers has played a historical role which few can surpass. Their constant efforts to showcase these facts have earned them the derision of many outsiders and even some Capellans. While critics are only to happy to point out that Preston and its Lancers are in decline this doesn’t deter the True Servants of the Confederation in the least. Traditionalists in the strict sense they are slow to adapt new ways but they know what works and are experienced warriors.
Turin Light Cavalry (4 regiments*)
Overview: Based on Star League RCTs they are currently at 4 battalions even though Liao counts them at 4 regiments their complete planned strength. Capellan Counting and Liao Math to be explained here. Based on the Chancellor’s decree Capellan figures often mean an ideal rating rather than an actual facts. This is an interesting Liao like philosophy (and certainly a red meat item to be discussed in Terran analysis for the book) based on the central planning and the command economy which operates at the Chancellor's whim. I could see it. Are they mercenaries or House Regulars also to be discussed here. Explain Liao Charted Units. This new Liao unit based on the League’s old Regimental Combat Teams has already proven itself in combat. While assembling on Turin they quickly dispatched a band of Periphery outlaws who thought they were attacking an undefended world.
Inspiration: Long ago the Turin world summary in HLSB along with the Furies therein inspired me to come up with this unit. In BTSD they effectively replaced the Tau Ceti Rangers who instead joined the Terran Republic.
Child Units: Could be named like the Star League named its regiments that composed a Combat Team.
Northwind Highlanders (4 regiments*)
Overview: The well known and beloved Highlanders of Northwind need no overview. Are they mercenaries or House Regulars also to be discussed here. Explain Liao Charted Units and why only four of the six are counted.
Inspiration: Established canon formation, see HLSB
Child Units: Marion's Highlanders, McCormick's Fusiliers, 1st Kearny Highlanders, 2nd Kearny Highlanders
Chesterton Freedom Legion (9 regiments)
Overview: Nominally a Commonalty Force but in practice Liao expatriates from the long dispute zone along the Davion border. These freedom fighters rove throughout the Confederation serving at the Chancellor’s will.
Inspiration: The forerunner of the Chesterton Reserves which were established in 2832
Child Units: Known to exist as of 2785; Shadrack’s Shadow Hawks, Sung’s Cuirassiers, Ariana Fusiliers (just the 1st), Ariana Grenadiers, and Hamilton's Highlanders (I find there is evidence of the Highlanders, placed them here)
St. Ives Armored Cavalry (14 regiments)
Overview: Commonalty Force of St. Ives
Inspiration: Established canon formation, see HLSB and FM CC
Child Units: Known to exist as of 2785; 1st St. Ives Lancers, 2nd St. Ives Lancers, St Ives Cheveau Legers, 21st Centuari Lancers, and Capellan Cuirassiers
Tikonov Border Guard (17 regiments)
Overview: Commonalty Force of Tikonov, we decided to name all Commonalty Parent Formations after the militaries of their Capellan state predecessors
Inspiration: The old military of the Grand Union
Child Units: Known to exist as of 2785; Kincaid’s Rangers, a number of Tikonov Lancers, Lefarge Hussars (named after the General who put down a revolt here, I figure the Chancellor stuck them here as a reminder even though they weren’t native, eventually became Wilson's Hussars)
Capellan Defense Force (12 regiments)
Overview: Commonalty Force of Capella, smallest area went with smallest number we decided to name all Commonalty Parent Formations after the militaries of their Capellan state predecessors
Inspiration: The old military of the Hegemony
Child Units: Known to exist as of 2785; Stapleton’s Grenadiers, Ishira’s Grenadiers (in the same write up in HLSB)
Sarna Shock Brigades (14 regiments)
Overview: Commonalty Force of Sarna, we decided to name all Commonalty Parent Formations after the militaries of their Capellan state predecessors
Inspiration: The old military of the Supremacy
Child Units: Known to exist as of 2785; none but not surprising considering they took the hardest blow from the FWLM
Sian Common Army (18 regiments)
Overview: Commonalty Force of Sian, large size because of the space to defend
Inspiration: We are still debating the name of this final Commonalty Formation which has no known canon designation. "Common Army" is a play on words and alludes to the Sian Commonwealth which it served. It sounds like something the descendents of Communist Chinese immigrants might name their military force, but it has Celtic origins as well (and Scots are a prominent part of the Capellan population). The Common Army was the main body of the medieval Scottish Army, as opposed to the professional knights and mercenary bodyguards of the king. Men from each region were levied into units in a time a war, and of course each region tended to have their own specialty in combat.
Child Units: Known to exist as of 2785; The Lost Legion (Garrisoning Shuen Wan) and the 15th Sian Dragoons (TRO3075)
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LordGrayson
Child Units: Capellan Lancers are typically numbered and named for their world of origin. Known members would be the 1st (Preston) Lancers and the 14th (Zurich) Lancers. Possible graduates could be the Red Lancers, St. Ives Lancers, 21st Centauri Lancers, etc.
Just to note that the 21st Centauri lancers arn't around at this time. Their a rogue batt from the St Ives lancers(to note it never does say which regiment they where part of that they went rogue from over pay) that becomes the 21st Centauri lancers mercenary
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FirstStarLord
As far as we know, the 21st Centauri Lancers were an independent unit in the SIAC. Granted, we know very little about their history before they went merc, but I doubt they were a sub-unit of the St. Ives Lancers.
The Lancers as they existed in 2785 were probably more then a battalion in size. A lot of Capellan regiments were less then full strength by the time of the 3rd SW. Some regiments had only two mech battalions with a conventional battalion filling in the gaps, and the elite Ariana Grenadiers had been battered down to a mere battalion despite still claming the designation of "regiment". Considering that the whole reason the Lancers left the CCAF was due to their anger over late pay and a lack of supplies for maintaining their mechs, then it makes sense that they had shrunk greatly in size over time; a battalion sized unit might not have even survived long enough to mutiny.
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LordGrayson
Originally a regular battalion in House Liao’s St. Ives Armored Cavalry, the founding members of the 21st Centauri Lancers mutinied against their commander over unpaid wages more than one hundred years ago. The group then seized supplies, DropShips and a JumpShip, fled Capellan space and turned mercenary.
History
Originally a battalion of House Liao's St. Ives Armored Cavalry, the 21st Centauri Lancers were a regular military unit of the Capellan Confederation. They were well-known for having totally destroyed the 4th Marik Militia in an attack against Anegasaki in 2793, thereby stopping a string of Marik victories. They had been equipped with the new Grasshopper BattleMech, and to this day the 21st operates several of these now rare 'Mechs.
Around the year 2875 the unit mutinied against their regimental commander over wages nine months overdue. With Shiro Kusaka as their elected leader, they captured some DropShips and a JumpShip from their regimental battle group as payment and formed a mercenary unit. They are colloquially known as "the 21st."
That's one of the cannon write ups on the unit they all say they where a batt some have them as part of the St.Ives AC and some actually say the lancers.
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Hessian
Quote from: MechRat on April 12, 2009, 10:28:53 PM
Hmmm, I think a combination of all the choices might be good. Something like Sian Commonality Guard?
Sian Commonality Guard? Sounds good to me!
BTW I just figured that one (albeit obscure) CCAF formation hasn't been mentioned at all yet(at least I didn't see them being mentioned).
The Shin Legions.
Per FM:DC and FM:CC three Shin Legions existed at the time Romano Liao became chancellor. They decided to defect to the Draconis Combine, but only two of them made it. Of them the Second Shin Legion was destroyed during the Clan invasion. The First Shin Legion then returned upon Sun-Tzu's invitation for expatriates to return home.
Just my two € cents
Ciao
Hessian
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CJvR
Quote from: Hessian
The Shin Legions.
IIRC the Shin Legions were formed by the remnants of CCAF units cut off from the Confederation and who crossed into the DC to continue the war from there as DCMS mercenaries so they would not exist until SW4.
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Hessian
Quote from: CJvR on April 13, 2009, 08:24:09 AM
IIRC the Shin Legions were formed by the remnants of CCAF units cut off from the Confederation and who crossed into the DC to continue the war from there as DCMS mercenaries so they would not exist until SW4.
Nope.
Both FM's describe the First Shin Legion, which is the sole surviving unit(remnant) of an organization that numbered three regiments at the time Romano Liao assumed the throne.
FM:CC p101 tells us that "the three Shin regiments fled the Confederation for the Draconis Combine after the Fourth Succession War. Two made it and were accepted by House Kurita as line regiments".
FM:DC p110 tells us that "The(1st) Shin Legion is actually the remnants of an expatriate Capellan unit that fled the Capellan Confederation shortly after Romano Liao assumed the throne. During the final years of Chancellor Maximilian Liao's reign, the unit's members frequently and publicly commented on his obvious mental instability.
When Romano assumed the throne , the legion's warriors grew concerned that they might fall prey to Romano's ruthless purge of those she perceived as threats to her realm and authority. When a unit commander died in a mysterious off-planet automobile accident during the second year of Romano's reign, the unit members immediately suspected the hand of the chancellor and her Maskirovka.
The original three Shin Legions the began to plan their defection from the Confederation. Although the Third Legion later learned that their commander had simply fallen victim to a drunk driver, all the Shin Legion members realized that they no longer felt safe in the Confederation and realized that they would spend Romano's reign continually lloking over their shoulders. As a result they, they decided to carry out their plan to flee the Capellan Confederation.
The Legions' paranoia proved well founded , however, when Maskirovka agents in the First and Third Regiments betrayed the units to port authorities, who launched immediate efforts to detain or destroy the Legions. The First Shin managed to fight its way free and escape Capellan space; the second eliminated the spies in its midst before the Maskirovka could do any damage. The Third Shin, however, fell in afirefight that nearly destroyed another Capellan regiment and the spaceport from which the Third was attempting to launch."
On p 111 of FM:DC we are told that "the Second Shin Legion had fallen to Clan Smoke Jaguar" and that "the First absorbed the survivors of the Second Shin".
So the Shin Legions were clearly a formation numbering three regiments(at the time Romano Liao assumed the throne).
Page 139 of Historical War of 3039 also lists the first and second Shin Legions in the Draconis Combine deployment table(obviously after their defection from the Capellan Confederation).
The real question, in my opinion, though, is: did they already exist in 2785? Since they do not appear in the original House Liao SB it will be interesting to see if the Shin Legions will be included and if so in what form and shape. But thats for Takiro to decide.
Just my two € cents
Ciao
Hessian
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Takiro
In 2785 there isn't evidence of the Shin Legion whose first real mention is in the 3000s. Over on CBT it was a point contention that the Lost Legion was a part of the Shin Legion but again there is no evidence of that. Just the word Legion to link them isn't enough in my mind.
I will change the 21st Centauri Lancers to a footnote in the SIAC rather than its own unit. Thanks for the catch.
Still considering the Sian Parent Formation name, so please continue to tell me what you'd prefer instead of the Common Army or if you like Common Army.
How did you guys like the rest of the overview? I'm especially curious about the Capellan Lancers which I came up with to address many concerns.
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Hessian
Quote from: Takiro on April 13, 2009, 10:31:49 AM
In 2785 there isn't evidence of the Shin Legion whose first real mention is in the 3000s.
Indeed. They suddenly appear in the Field Manuals with no previous mention in the House Liao SB.
Quote from: Takiro on April 13, 2009, 10:31:49 AM
Over on CBT it was a point contention that the Lost Legion was a part of the Shin Legion but again there is no evidence of that. Just the word Legion to link them isn't enough in my mind.
Wasn't aware of that and I guess you are probably right.
Although I must say that personally I like the name Shin Legion(s) and their descriptions in FM:DC and FM:CC. So to see them approved in BTSD would be fine with me, though I understand if you decide otherwise Takiro.
Quote from: Takiro on April 13, 2009, 10:31:49 AM
Still considering the Sian Parent Formation name, so please continue to tell me what you'd prefer instead of the Common Army or if you like Common Army.
Well I already cast my vote in favor of MechRat's proposal.
Quote from: Takiro on April 13, 2009, 10:31:49 AM
How did you guys like the rest of the overview? I'm especially curious about the Capellan Lancers which I came up with to address many concerns.
Well I like what you came up with Takiro. I think this is a good way to explain the many Lancers units within the CCAF. It also gives them a certain ring I like. Found no fault with the content of the rest of your writeup. However, in my opinion the Tikonov Border Guard and the Sian Common Army(or whatever its final name will be) are a tad too large formations. It seems to me that the CCAF prefers a multitude of smaller formations(at least from what is known from FM:CC and the House Liao SB).
Ciao
Hessian
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Rainbow 6
I like it even the Sian Common Army name now.
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Ice Hellion
I think the Northwind Highlanders should be mercenaries.
They may have signed with the Capellan Confederation to keep their planet out of harm and House Liao would have certainly accepted that to avoid a costly campaign
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Takiro
Quote from: Ice Hellion on April 13, 2009, 08:15:34 PM
I think the Northwind Highlanders should be mercenaries.
They may have signed with the Capellan Confederation to keep their planet out of harm and House Liao would have certainly accepted that to avoid a costly campaign.
Actually the Turin Light Cavalry and the Northwind Highlanders are mercenaries as well as Capellan Line Units. This confusing issue will be explored in the report.
Glad you liked the Capellan Lancers, I wanted to give them a Liao angle and think mission accomplished.
One last issue remains the name for the Commonalty Forces of Sian. Here is what it looks like so far.
Sian Common Army (FirstStarLord, Rainbow 6)
Sian Citizens Army or Sian Peoples Army (CJvR, Irose)
Sian Commonality Guard (MechRat, Hessian)
Hurry up and vote now for your favorite or create your own!
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Ice Hellion
Sian Citizens Army or Sian Peoples Army.
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Takiro
Okay folks I think this thread is just about wrapped up. Only issue that remains is the Sian Commonalty Force name. Results thus far below. Remember to vote for your favorite or create your own.
Sian Common Army (FirstStarLord, Rainbow 6)
Sian Citizens Army or Sian Peoples Army (CJvR, Irose, Ice Hellion)
Sian Commonality Guard (MechRat, Hessian)
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muttley
Sian Commonality Guard
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wolfcannon
sian commonality guard
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takiro
Thanks Mutt and WC, keep those votes coming. Here are the current results.
Sian Common Army (FirstStarLord, Rainbow 6)
Sian Citizens Army or Sian Peoples Army (CJvR, Irose, Ice Hellion)
Sian Commonality Guard (MechRat, Hessian, Muttley, Wolfcannon)
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MechRat
Wow,
Something I proposed is actually becoming popular? Shocked Who could have pictured that... Wink
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Takiro
Alright before more people vote for MechRat's idea and swell his ego well beyond the point of no return Grin I'd like to propose a solution which will put a bow on this Overview of the CCAF. The Sian Commonalty Guard shall be the name of that Parent Formation discussed. A Chancellor (whom I yet to identify) taken into account the size (grown far beyond the original Commonwealth to become Capella's largest including the disputed Andurien worlds) and its importance (the capital region of the Confederation) reorganized this Commonalty Force during the Star League era. Previously it had been named the Sian Common Army in honor of its predecessor like other Commonalty Forces.
What do you think?
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FirstStarLord
Quote from: Takiro on April 14, 2009, 09:12:58 PM
Alright before more people vote for MechRat's idea and swell his ego well beyond the point of no return Grin I'd like to propose a solution which will put a bow on this Overview of the CCAF. The Sian Commonalty Guard shall be the name of that Parent Formation discussed. A Chancellor (whom I yet to identify) taken into account the size (grown far beyond the original Commonwealth to become Capella's largest including the disputed Andurien worlds) and its importance (the capital region of the Confederation) reorganized this Commonalty Force during the Star League era. Previously it had been named the Sian Common Army in honor of its predecessor like other Commonalty Forces.
What do you think?
Go with it. We should start focusing more on the regiments within the meta-formations at this point, now that the overall structure has been planned out.
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Takiro
Sounds good. Did a final revision shifting a regiment from the TBG to the new SCG. I should also mention the size of the Guard will also be a focus of our write up as Liao generally prefers smaller formations with this one exception. Our finalized outline of the CCAF which I was think of posting on CBT and S7 for further comment. Any other thoughts?
Capellan Confederation Armed Forces (CCAF)
129 BattleMech Regiments (as of 2785)
Liao Rangers (5 regiments)
Overview: The Rangers are closely linked to the Duchy of Liao and the ruling House of the Confederation. As one of the elite forces of the CCAF (think US Army Rangers) they are adept at rapid battalion sized strikes making them ideal for modern combat. Their brand of highly mobile warfare has been honed as recently as the Star League’s infamous Hidden Wars. Striking at Liao's neighbors with a high degree of success is already second nature to these crack troops.
Inspiration: Vincent’s Commandos who according to HLSB were formed in 2805-2810 from “various commando battalions†provided much of the canon inspiration for the Rangers. They are also meant to provide Liao with an appropriate elite force and foreshadow the coming of the Warrior Houses and Death Commandos.
Child Units: Organized into 15 BattleMech battalions supported by infantry and aerofighters they are likely numerical in organization although there could be a certain amount of “hero units†I suppose likely one based on Vincent’s Commandos.
Confederation Reserve Cavalry (6 regiments)
Overview: The rapid response forces of Capella are the Confederation Reserve Cavalry. Akin to the Star League’s Deneb Light Cavalry they are pre-positioned by the Strategios across the realm. Their deployment is subject to constant review in order to best react to any hostile incursion. Traditionally there is one for each Commonalty including Chesterton.
Inspiration: Established canon formation, see HLSB and FM CC
Child Units: Perhaps the simplest of the CCAF units to detail as they maintain the 1st through the 6th Cavalry regiments often rebuilding units if I remember correctly.
Capellan Chargers (4 regiments)
Overview: The Chargers are the "strong hammer" of the Capellan military. Quite simply they are a four regiment force of heavy and assault BattleMechs used to spearhead assaults against heavily defended enemy worlds. The Chargers carry this aggressive tactical doctrine to its end point both on and off the battlefield. Typical their members are described as brash and callous in manner. In other words they come straight to the point and won’t hesitate to fight if provoked.
Inspiration: FirstStarLord developed the basic Charger role from the history of Cochraine's Goliaths. Building on their profile as a clue to the Charger's overall mission profile, he surmised that the Chargers were an assault brigade. Usually Capellan units are composed of medium mechs mixed with some heavies and lights in support. The Goliaths on the other hand were one of the few regiments in the CCAF to use assault mechs in large numbers.
Child Units: As the 5th Capellan Chargers (Cochraine's Goliaths) are listed numerically it is assumed that the 1st through 4th would be as well in 2785.
Capellan Hussars (4 regiments)
Overview: The guardians of the state we all know from BT and admire
Inspiration: Established canon formation, see HLSB and FM CC
Child Units: The Red Lancers, The Prefectorate Guard, Blandford's Grenadiers, The Celestial Hand. The fourth and final Capellan Hussar regiment represents the unbreakable bond between the Capellan people and the will of the Chancellor. In that role this regiment called out to defend the most critical planets. This explains why of all of the Hussars units it became the only one to be destroyed before the 4th SW.
Baranov’s Regulars (6 regiments)
Overview: Faced with the prospect of returning Capellan nationals and those citizens who espoused Star League ideals polluting Liao military establishment a new unit was created to keep all the bad eggs in one basket. They are named for their commander and the Star League Regulars who now fight to uphold Liao’s rightful claim to the First Lordship. Their “foreign values†may have forever put them under the thumb of the Maskirovka. Only through dedicated and unquestioning service to the CCAF can these soldiers ever hope to prove their worthiness for citizenship. Despite the clash of military doctrines the Regulars are an invaluable force to the Chancellor.
Justification: The last CCAF Parent Formation created, they address the question what happened to all the Capellans returning from SLDF service. Assembled from elements joined the Capellan Confederation in the SLSB.
Child Units: It is possible that the regiments of the Regulars reflect the SL units who mainly made up this formation. 133rd Jump Infantry Division, 202nd Mechanized Infantry Division (The Pride of Cuba), 147th Mechanized Infantry Division, 265th Mechanized Infantry Division (Pride of Pittsburgh), 166th Mechanized Infantry Division (Red Diamond Division), and 7th Jump Infantry Division. They could also contain some or all of the ancestors of the Dismal Disinherited which were assembled in the 2nd Succession War from Capellan Mechwarriors who traced their heritage back to SLDF so their units could also be foreshadowed here.
Capellan Lancers (12 regiments)
Overview: Several times throughout its history the Confederation has recruited line military units from specific worlds. This whole scale conscription seems arbitrary and ill-conceived to foreigners who individually elect to join the military. In Capellan society such efforts are considered the norm as the individual rights are less important then the well being of the whole. The Lancer Program fosters a special camaraderie among its participants who have the high honor of being chosen to serve the state. Their world is also rewarded with service benefits and recognition which provide significant boosts to the locale economy. Potential aspirants, often Home Guard units, train along senior Lancer formations like the 1st (Preston) Lancers. The 1st claims to have instructed many illustrious Capellan units like the Red Lancers and the St. Ives Lancers. Many groups across the nation have tried to become Capellan Lancers but few who do succeed. Graduate units either stay with the Parent Formation and become teachers themselves or go onto serve in other Line Formations. As such they are Liao’s version of training cadre essentially serving up feeder units for the Confederation military.
Inspiration: Blackwind, Preston (appearing in the HLSB and the Succession War board game their appearance in BTSD is homage to those limited sightings), and many other Capellan Lancers served as my muse here as I took the Confederation’s mass recruitment efforts to heart.
Child Units: Capellan Lancers are typically numbered and named for their world of origin. Known members would be the 1st (Preston) Lancers and the 14th (Zurich) Lancers. Possible graduates could be the Red Lancers, St. Ives Lancers, 21st Centauri Lancers, etc.
1st (Preston) Lancers would keep much of the history I was assembling for that Formation. The world of Preston is located just above Sian in the Capellan Commonality. This proud member of the Confederation along with its fanatical soldiers has played a historical role which few can surpass. Their constant efforts to showcase these facts have earned them the derision of many outsiders and even some Capellans. While critics are only to happy to point out that Preston and its Lancers are in decline this doesn’t deter the True Servants of the Confederation in the least. Traditionalists in the strict sense they are slow to adapt new ways but they know what works and are experienced warriors.
Turin Light Cavalry (4 regiments*)
Overview: Based on Star League RCTs they are currently at 4 battalions even though Liao counts them at 4 regiments their complete planned strength. Capellan Counting and Liao Math to be explained here. Based on the Chancellor’s decree Capellan figures often mean an ideal rating rather than an actual facts. This is an interesting Liao like philosophy (and certainly a red meat item to be discussed in Terran analysis for the book) based on the central planning and the command economy which operates at the Chancellor's whim. I could see it. Are they mercenaries or House Regulars also to be discussed here. Explain Liao Charted Units. This new Liao unit based on the League’s old Regimental Combat Teams has already proven itself in combat. While assembling on Turin they quickly dispatched a band of Periphery outlaws who thought they were attacking an undefended world.
Inspiration: Long ago the Turin world summary in HLSB along with the Furies therein inspired me to come up with this unit. In BTSD they effectively replaced the Tau Ceti Rangers who instead joined the Terran Republic.
Child Units: Could be named like the Star League named its regiments that composed a Combat Team.
Northwind Highlanders (4 regiments*)
Overview: The well known and beloved Highlanders of Northwind need no overview. Are they mercenaries or House Regulars also to be discussed here. Explain Liao Charted Units and why only four of the six are counted.
Inspiration: Established canon formation, see HLSB
Child Units: Marion's Highlanders, McCormick's Fusiliers, 1st Kearny Highlanders, 2nd Kearny Highlanders
Chesterton Freedom Legion (9 regiments)
Overview: Nominally a Commonalty Force but in practice Liao expatriates from the long dispute zone along the Davion border. These freedom fighters rove throughout the Confederation serving at the Chancellor’s will.
Inspiration: The forerunner of the Chesterton Reserves which were established in 2832
Child Units: Known to exist as of 2785; Shadrack’s Shadow Hawks, Sung’s Cuirassiers, Ariana Fusiliers (just the 1st), Ariana Grenadiers, and Hamilton's Highlanders (I find there is evidence of the Highlanders, placed them here)
St. Ives Armored Cavalry (14 regiments)
Overview: Commonalty Force of St. Ives
Inspiration: Established canon formation, see HLSB and FM CC
Child Units: Known to exist as of 2785; 1st St. Ives Lancers, 2nd St. Ives Lancers, St Ives Cheveau Legers, 21st Centuari Lancers, and Capellan Cuirassiers
Tikonov Border Guard (16 regiments)
Overview: Commonalty Force of Tikonov, we decided to name all Commonalty Parent Formations after the militaries of their Capellan state predecessors
Inspiration: The old military of the Grand Union
Child Units: Known to exist as of 2785; Kincaid’s Rangers, a number of Tikonov Lancers, Lefarge Hussars (named after the General who put down a revolt here, I figure the Chancellor stuck them here as a reminder even though they weren’t native, eventually became Wilson's Hussars)
Capellan Defense Force (12 regiments)
Overview: Commonalty Force of Capella, smallest area went with smallest number we decided to name all Commonalty Parent Formations after the militaries of their Capellan state predecessors
Inspiration: The old military of the Hegemony
Child Units: Known to exist as of 2785; Stapleton’s Grenadiers, Ishira’s Grenadiers (in the same write up in HLSB)
Sarna Shock Brigades (14 regiments)
Overview: Commonalty Force of Sarna, we decided to name all Commonalty Parent Formations after the militaries of their Capellan state predecessors
Inspiration: The old military of the Supremacy
Child Units: Known to exist as of 2785; none but not surprising considering they took the hardest blow from the FWLM
Sian Commonalty Guard (19 regiments)
Overview: Commonalty Force of Sian, large size because of the space to defend
Inspiration: The only Commonalty Force not named after it’s pre-Confederation forerunner. A Chancellor (whom I yet to identify) taken into account the size (grown far beyond the original Commonwealth to become Capella's largest including the disputed Andurien worlds which Liao doesn’t fully trust) and its importance (the capital region of the Confederation) reorganized this Commonalty Force during the Star League era. Since this time the Guard has expanded in size and resposiblity. Previously it had been called the Sian Common Army in honor of its predecessor just like other Commonalty Forces.
Child Units: Known to exist as of 2785; The Lost Legion (Garrisoning Shuen Wan) and the 15th Sian Dragoons (TRO3075)
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Looks good- as for the Chancellor who reorganized the Sian Commonality Guard- I would suggest Warex Liao- he made a lot of reforms to the Capellan Military in general so it feels like a good fit for him.
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Takiro
That sounds good Irose.
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MechRat
Quote from: Takiro on April 14, 2009, 09:12:58 PM
Alright before more people vote for MechRat's idea and swell his ego well beyond the point of no return Grin
Too late... Grin
Overall it looks great to me. Does the "*" next to the Turin Light Cavalry & Northwind Highlanders indicate their mercenary status?
P.S.: Just glad I could contribute something Wink
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Rainbow 6
I belive it does, is this a good time to point out that the 15th Dracon were also granted a charter?
Although i must admit to not knowing when it was granted.
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Rainbow 6
Quick question for you all, anyone know what mechs Ceres Metals were building in 2785?
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Quote from: Rainbow 6 on April 16, 2009, 10:09:06 AM
Quick question for you all, anyone know what mechs Ceres Metals were building in 2785?
Not a clue- they had a lot of factories but the only mech that we know they produce is the Vindicator.
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Rainbow 6
Which didn't start production until the gap between the 1st & 2nd wars.
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Quote from: Rainbow 6 on April 16, 2009, 01:06:24 PM
Which didn't start production until the gap between the 1st & 2nd wars.
Exactly- I would guess that Ceres built a variety of medium and light mechs - we know they have/had mech factories on Capella, Indicass, St Ives but there is nothing on what they built in the 2785 time frame.
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Takiro
Just wanted to go back here and talk military academies real quick. It looks like the Capellans have a two tiered system of military education in 2785 not including the Lancer Program which we will have to integrate. At the top of their warrior education program is the Confederation Martial Academies located on each of the Commonalty capitals (5 total; Sian, Capella, St. Ives, Tikonov, Sarna). Training at a Martial Academy can last from 2 to 5 years. This information comes from page 113 of HLSB. Tremendous changes are wrought on the Capellans as we travel to FMCC which from page 44-49 details their training. The St. Ives and Sarna Martial Academy are confirmed within but the Capellan War College and the Sian Center for Martial Disciplines are also listed although they could have been renamed. Page 41-42 of FMFS confirms the Tikonov Martial Academy as the Tikonov School of Military Discipline.
The second tier is detailed in FMCC page 44-46. Every Duchy in the Confederation maintains at least one Regional Training Center (RTC). An annual quota of trained recruits is maintained by the CCAF. Usually these graduates go onto serve in the Home Guard but Line Service is occasionally requested. I believe we can integrate the writings of the Lancer Program as a third leg or extension of the RTCs.
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Ice Hellion
Lancer program?
And I do no think we the RTC would be there.
To me, they are a copy of the Federated Suns system done somewhere in the future.
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Takiro
Look back at my notes on the Capellan Lancers. Another option is to make the Lancer Program an early form of the Regional Training Center.
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Rainbow 6
That might make sense as that way when the Lancer program becomes the RTC's it would help to explain why not every duchy's RTC has the ability to train mechwarriors.
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Hessian
Quote from: Takiro on April 24, 2009, 03:35:20 PM
Just wanted to go back here and talk military academies real quick.
Found a reference to another Capellan military academy.
The Ares MechWarrior Academy(presumably located on Ares) is mentioned in the biography of Talon Zahn, the Stategic Military Director of the CCAF (p. 24 of FM:CC).
If this academy already existed in 2785 is unknown.
Ciao
Hessian
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Rainbow 6
As its not mentioned in the Capellan Field Manual i wonder if its the name the Ares RTC goes by.
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Takiro
Is Ares a Duchy capital? Or it could be a planetary school, I will look it up.
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Ice Hellion
[3025] Originally an independent colony within the Capellan Zone, Ares is a commercial free port with many factories and supported by local exemptions from standard import duties. It is one of the few truly prosperous small worlds in the Confederation.
Ares is most often remembered as the site of the famous peace conventions organized by Aleisha Liao. The savage campaigns fought in the Tintavel system in 2412, between the Free Worlds League and the Capellan Confederation, caused massive loss of civilian life. Appalled at this, Chancellor Aleisha Liao, spent months drafting an 80-page document describing conditions for civilized warfare, rules intended to spare civilians from the horrors of unlimited war. Aleisha dispatched copies of her work to the leaders of all the warring realms, but expected only a lukewarm response. Instead, most of the leaders immediately communicated their wholehearted agreement.
Encouraged by the response, Aleisha immediately suggested a summit meeting on the Capellan world of Ares to further discuss the document. After much negotiation, the Ares Conventions were signed in the Grand Hall of the city of New Olympia on June 13, 2413.
Today, ironically, Ares maintains one of the few Capellan 'Mech producing centers left in existence.
[3030] Though the Ares factories are still rebuilding from the devastation of the Forth Succession War, it is on Ares that the Capellans have chosen to experiment with developing a stable, triple-strength myomer.
The destruction of most of the Quikscell Company's component lines at their Ares plant has actually led to their putting out a higher-quality product. Quikscell has always been known to use cheap parts; now that it is little more than an assembly plant, it is forced to rely on components shipped in from more conscientious firms.
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Rainbow 6
Looking at the maps of the Confederation its part of a Duchy with:- Necromo, Capricorn III, Minnicora and New Sagon.
Of those i would say Ares is the most likley to be the duchy capital and site of a RTC.
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Takiro
I read the entry on Talon Zahn and there is only two relevant entries. One, the Ares Mechwarrior Academy. Two, Born (Ares). To me this indicates a young man who was trained on his homeworld then shipped to Sian University for his OCS.
Most likely every planet around the InnerSphere has some type of military academy to train its militia at the very least. I believe the Ares Mechwarrior Academy is one of these likely part of the RTC.
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Ice Hellion
Fine with me.
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Rainbow 6
I think all of the house's would have something similar to the RTC system, the Lyran Alliance before the civil war had 55 military boot camps in addition to its military academies.
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Hessian
Quote from: Takiro on April 26, 2009, 09:29:02 PM
I read the entry on Talon Zahn and there is only two relevant entries. One, the Ares Mechwarrior Academy. Two, Born (Ares). To me this indicates a young man who was trained on his homeworld then shipped to Sian University for his OCS.
Most likely every planet around the InnerSphere has some type of military academy to train its militia at the very least. I believe the Ares Mechwarrior Academy is one of these likely part of the RTC.
Understood. Fine with me too(since, to my knowledge this is the sole mention of the Ares Mechwarrior Academy).
Ciao
Hessian
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From Merc Guild
3rd Capellan Chargers fought on Kanata in 2788 p. 177
Capellan Cuirassiers fought on Deschenes in 2780s p.201
Altorra Hussars fought on Deschenes in 2780s p. 201
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One update here based on the Field Report CCAF
The Confederation Reserve Cavalry is described as the "designated reserve regiments for the Sian Commonality". This would conflict with the way we have described them as a rapid response force akin to the Deneb Light Cavalry.
Maybe we should change then CRC to a general reserve force (I would not tie them to the Sian Commonality, but the CC as a whole) that is used to plug holes in defensive lines.
This would play into the elements of the Field Report that the CRC's main task is to assume garrison roles, freeing front line units for offensive operations.
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Two comments come to mind. One, the size of the Sian Commonality could play a contributing role here. Such a massive area, nearly half of the Confederation, could dictate the existence of such a force. I'd really like to get into the historical aspect of why the Capellan state military looks the way it does. From its internal borders to its component regional defenders. All are historical leftovers not yet rearranged by the horrors of the Succession War.
Two, I fail to see the distinction between the a designated reserve and a rapid response force. Both roles seem nearly identical to me. The whole point of holding a force in reserve is so they can respond to a crisis along your front. ???
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Two comments come to mind. One, the size of the Sian Commonality could play a contributing role here. Such a massive area, nearly half of the Confederation, could dictate the existence of such a force. I'd really like to get into the historical aspect of why the Capellan state military looks the way it does. From its internal borders to its component regional defenders. All are historical leftovers not yet rearranged by the horrors of the Succession War.
Sounds like a plan.
Two, I fail to see the distinction between the a designated reserve and a rapid response force. Both roles seem nearly identical to me. The whole point of holding a force in reserve is so they can respond to a crisis along your front. ???
Because the field report describes the CRC's role as a garrison force that is used to relieve front line forces for other missions. From the field report:
However, their treatment since their recall to Confederation space has been more in line with the Reserve Cavalry’s traditional role. Each
of the regiments is spread in battalion-scale packets across a swath of worlds, holding down critical defensive assignments so the frontline
regiments of the CCAF can strike into the collapsing Blakist Protectorate
Now you can argue that their role, as described above, depicts their service during the Succession Wars and that their original role was something different but we need to be clear on that. A rapid response force is something very different from a reserve garrison force. Using real world examples, a Marine Expeditionary Unit or the 82nd Airborne are far different from a National Guard Infantry Division. While they may share some of the same equipment, their intended roles and deployment capabilities are vastly different. A rapid response force (like the 82nd or the Marines) is capable of quickly deploying it's forces (within a few hours of getting their orders). On the other hand a reserve force (like the national guard) will require a bit more time to mobilize.
A better example of this might be the Israeli Defense Forces- with only limited manpower, the majority of their military is composed of reservists- probably something on the order of 75% of their army is composed of reservists. In the event of a war, these reservists will be recalled to active duty and assigned to combat postings. While these reservists can be called to duty fairly quickly it can take a few days- caught by surprising during the Yom Kippur War it took the IDF about 2 days to fully mobilize it's reserves for a counter attack.
So what I am getting at is we need to define the role of the CRC- is it a Rapid Response Force or is it a garrison/reserve force.
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How is the Field Report anyway Irose? Worth getting??
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It's not bad. It definitely looks pretty. It reads well but it could have been longer. The industries section is annoyingly vague- the only mech factory mentioned is Shengli Arms on Victoria- while I didn't expect an Objective Raids treatment it would have been nice to get the following factories have been destroyed, these are being rebuilt, these are new since 3067, these survived largely unharmed.
The unit entries are short- each formation (capellan hussars, Warrior houses, crc, MAC, etc) receives 1 page per formation with a brief overview, what each individual regiment did during the Jihad, their current condition/morale and unit listing showing their strength, upgrade levels and current postings. There is also a nice map showing the CC and the CCAF's deployment as of 3079.
Is it worth buying -if you are following the Jihad I think it is worthwhile. If you have no interest in the Jihad there is almost no information in the book that is useful in a pre-Jihad setting.
Do I regret buying it- no. I found it more interesting then the Galtor and Misery TP books (which could have used more Sourcebook book material to go with the scenarios). I will be getting the other Field Reports as they are released.