OBT Forum

Ice Hellion
Contributor
Grand Champion

 Offline

Posts: 3087

Part time builder of fallen Empires


      Re: CCAF House units in 2785
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2008, 05:37:23 PM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In 3025, Preston Lancers are 3 Battalions strong (1st, 2nd and 3rd).

I also found references to the Red Lancers (members of the Capellan Hussars), the Blackwind Lancers and the 1st and 2nd St Ives Lancers.
 
 
 Report to moderator    Logged 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


In Turn they tested each Clan namesake in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle. Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down. All failed to match the predator's speed and grace. Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5
 
 
Rainbow 6
Global Moderator
Champion

 Online

Posts: 829


    Re: CCAF House units in 2785
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2008, 06:04:12 PM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Blackwind Lancers were originally the 14th Capellan Lancers which we think the regiment know in 3025 as Preston's Lancers belonged to originally.

The St. Ives Lancers are part of the St. Ives Armored Cavalry. 
 
 Report to moderator    86.165.150.192 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Userbar by Xtrahmxwohld
 
 
Takiro
Administrator
Avatar

 Offline

Posts: 5059

 
     Re: CCAF House units in 2785
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2008, 08:42:27 PM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I will have to research the Capellan Lancers, more but I can't find any canon evidence for them as of yet.

The St. Ives Lancers are part of the St. Ives Armored Cavalry which FM CC says were more than a dozen regiments strong at the start of the Succession War. 
 
 Report to moderator    Logged 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"It is better to be thought a fool, than open your mouth and remove all doubt."
    U. S. Grant

"Don't think about what I say, cause I don't."
   John Luther
 
 
Ice Hellion
Contributor
Grand Champion

 Offline

Posts: 3087

Part time builder of fallen Empires


      Re: CCAF House units in 2785
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2008, 08:15:39 PM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: Takiro on November 03, 2008, 08:42:27 PM
The St. Ives Lancers are part of the St. Ives Armored Cavalry which FM CC says were more than a dozen regiments strong at the start of the Succession War.


I know this


Quote from: Takiro on November 03, 2008, 08:42:27 PM
I will have to research the Capellan Lancers, more but I can't find any canon evidence for them as of yet.


I could not find any evidence on them either. 
 
 Report to moderator    Logged 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


In Turn they tested each Clan namesake in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle. Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down. All failed to match the predator's speed and grace. Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5
 
 
wolfcannon
Advocate

 Offline

Posts: 441

 
      Re: CCAF House units in 2785
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2008, 01:53:26 AM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
these are the units ive found in the House Liao Sourcebook


1st Hexare Lancers
2nd Hexare Lancers


Chesterton Reserves

Chesterton Reserve Cavalry
1st Chesterton Reserve Cavalry
2nd Chesterton Reserve Cavalry
3rd Chesterton Reserve Cavalry
4th Chesterton Reserve Cavalry
5th Chesterton Reserve Cavalry
6th Chesterton Reserve Cavalry
7th Chesterton Reserve Cavalry

St. Ives Armored Cavalry
1st St. Ives Armored Cavalry
2nd St. Ives Armored Cavalry
3rd St. Ives Armored Cavalry
4th St. Ives Armored Cavalry
5th St. Ives Armored Cavalry
6th St. Ives Armored Cavalry
7th St. Ives Armored Cavalry
8th St. Ives Armored Cavalry
9th St. Ives Armored Cavalry
10th St. Ives Armored Cavalry
11th St. Ives Armored Cavalry
12th St. Ives Armored Cavalry
13th St. Ives Armored Cavalry
14th St. Ives Armored Cavalry


Morcock's Rangers
1st Battalion
2nd Battalion

Blandford's Cuirassiers
Blandford's Grenadiers
Shepperton's Grenadiers

Shimosa's Gravediggers
1st Battalion unk unk Regular Reliable
2nd Battalion unk unk Regular Reliable

Capellan Jaegers
1st Capellan Jaegers unk unk unk unk
2nd Capellan Jaegers unk unk unk unk
3rd Capellan Jaegers unk unk unk unk
4th Capellan Jaegers unk unk unk unk

Capellan Reserve Cavalry
1st Capellan Reserve Cavalry
2nd Capellan Reserve Cavalry
3rd Capellan Reserve Cavalry
4th Capellan Reserve Cavalry
5th Capellan Reserve Cavalry
6th Capellan Reserve Cavalry
7th Capellan Reserve Cavalry

Capellan Chargers
1st Capellan Chargers
2nd Capellan Chargers
3rd Capellan Chargers
4th Capellan Chargers
5th Capellan Chargers

Capellan Voltigeurs
1st Capellan Voltigeurs
2nd Capellan Voltigeurs
3rd Capellan Voltigeurs
4th Capellan Voltigeurs
5th Capellan Voltigeurs
6th Capellan Voltigeurs

Seneca's Fusiliers
1st Battalion
2nd Battalion

Sarna Reserve Cavalry
1st Sarna Reserve Cavalry
2nd Sarna Reserve Cavalry
3rd Sarna Reserve Cavalry

Sarna Voltigeurs
1st Sarna Voltigeurs
3rd Sarna Voltigeurs
4th Sarna Voltigeurs
5th Sarna Voltigeurs

Tikonov Reserves
Tikonov Guards
1st Tikonov Guards
2nd Tikonov Guards
3rd Tikonov Guards
4th Tikonov Guards
5th Tikonov Guards
6th Tikonov Guards
7th Tikonov Guards

Tikonov Lancers
1st Tikonov Lancers
2nd Tikonov Lancers
3rd Tikonov Lancers
4th Tikonov Lancers
5th Tikonov Lancers
6th Tikonov Lancers
7th Tikonov Lancers

Tikonov Voltigeurs
1st Tikonov Voltigeurs
2nd Tikonov Voltigeurs
3rd Tikonov Voltigeurs
4th Tikonov Voltigeurs
5th Tikonov Voltigeurs

 
 
 Report to moderator    Logged 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jennifer Daniels
General
Daniels Avengers
 
 
Takiro
Administrator
Avatar

 Offline

Posts: 5059

 
     Re: CCAF House units in 2785
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2008, 02:22:49 AM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting list wolfcannon, looks like you did your homework. I'll check it out.   
 
 Report to moderator    Logged 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"It is better to be thought a fool, than open your mouth and remove all doubt."
    U. S. Grant

"Don't think about what I say, cause I don't."
   John Luther
 
 
wolfcannon
Advocate

 Offline

Posts: 441

 
      Re: CCAF House units in 2785
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2008, 01:53:53 PM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
actually i took what little info they gave in the book.

pg 21 3rd Tikonov Border Guards.
pg. 22 Tikonove Voltigeur (Border) Guards 6 regiments
pg. 23 141rst and 173rd Sarna Shock Brigades
pg. 25  Morcock's Rangers, 1st and 3rd Tikonov Lancers, Seneca's Fusiliers, Capellan Reserve Calvary, and the Seluk Principia.
pg 28.  Davion forces (1st and 5th Victoria Lancers, 3rd Aragon Lancers, Findas Motorized Infantry and Illisien Commandoes)
pg 32. Davion Forces (1st Syrtis Fusiliers)
pg 34. Merik's Grenadiers (now a taurian unit), 2nd Hexare Lancers
pg. 39 53 Mech regiments in 2540's?
also during that time House Davion and House Liao were in negotions to join together through the marriage of the dual Davion/Capellan citizen Salicia Liao and Terril Davion.  but alas Salicia offended Terril because of a wart on his nose.  Also trade was established between Capellan radioactives for Davion Mechs.

pg. 41 Shepperton's Grenadiers (Cmdr and several officers and elinsted men left disgruntled, units fate unkown.  possible renamed?)
pg. 46 Kincaid's Rangers
pg. 48 Shimosa's Gravediggers
pg. 54 Hamiltons Cavaliers
pg. 54 Mercenares Devon's Devastators

 
 
 Report to moderator    Logged 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jennifer Daniels
General
Daniels Avengers
 
 
FirstStarLord
Advocate

 Offline

Posts: 118


    Re: CCAF House units in 2785
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2009, 01:18:29 AM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: wolfcannon on November 07, 2008, 01:53:53 PM
actually i took what little info they gave in the book.

pg 21 3rd Tikonov Border Guards.
pg. 22 Tikonove Voltigeur (Border) Guards 6 regiments
pg. 23 141rst and 173rd Sarna Shock Brigades
pg. 25  Morcock's Rangers, 1st and 3rd Tikonov Lancers, Seneca's Fusiliers, Capellan Reserve Calvary, and the Seluk Principia.
pg 28.  Davion forces (1st and 5th Victoria Lancers, 3rd Aragon Lancers, Findas Motorized Infantry and Illisien Commandoes)
pg 32. Davion Forces (1st Syrtis Fusiliers)
pg 34. Merik's Grenadiers (now a taurian unit), 2nd Hexare Lancers
pg. 39 53 Mech regiments in 2540's?
also during that time House Davion and House Liao were in negotions to join together through the marriage of the dual Davion/Capellan citizen Salicia Liao and Terril Davion.  but alas Salicia offended Terril because of a wart on his nose.  Also trade was established between Capellan radioactives for Davion Mechs.

pg. 41 Shepperton's Grenadiers (Cmdr and several officers and elinsted men left disgruntled, units fate unkown.  possible renamed?)
pg. 46 Kincaid's Rangers
pg. 48 Shimosa's Gravediggers
pg. 54 Hamiltons Cavaliers
pg. 54 Mercenares Devon's Devastators




A lot the those units you listed existed before the modern Confederation was formed, during the period Tikonov, Sarna and Capella were all still at war with one another. I'm not sure they even survived long enough to be equipped with Battlemechs 150 years later, or even if they did, they may have not survived the Age of War. Additionally the 2nd Hexare Lancers became the Red Lancers in the Capellan Hussars brigade, so a number of these units may have simply been given new names as the CCAF evolved. At any rate, the Capellans seemed to have a very fluid history in terms of how their regiments evolved. I have some theories about how they were organized in the late Star League era, but I would have to check my sources again to make sure everything fits together. 
 
« Last Edit: April 07, 2009, 03:10:48 AM by FirstStarLord »  Report to moderator    Logged 
 
 
 
Takiro
Administrator
Avatar

 Offline

Posts: 5059

 
     Re: CCAF House units in 2785
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2009, 01:25:14 AM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: FirstStarLord on April 05, 2009, 01:18:29 AM
I have some theories about how they were organized in the late Star League era, but I would have to check my sources again to make everthing fits together.


Sounds good FirstStarLord. I'm open to all such theories as well as hard research at this time.   
 
 Report to moderator    Logged 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"It is better to be thought a fool, than open your mouth and remove all doubt."
    U. S. Grant

"Don't think about what I say, cause I don't."
   John Luther
 
 
FirstStarLord
Advocate

 Offline

Posts: 118


    Re: CCAF House units in 2785
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2009, 01:30:22 AM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: Takiro on April 05, 2009, 01:25:14 AM
Sounds good FirstStarLord. I'm open to all such theories as well as hard research at this time.


I'll get right on it boss.   
 
 Report to moderator    Logged 
 
 
 
FirstStarLord
Advocate

 Offline

Posts: 118


    Re: CCAF House units in 2785
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2009, 03:59:09 AM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All right, this is the results of my initial research:

Capellan Regiments in 2785

Capellan Hussars:
4 Regiments

5th regiment (Merik’s Grenadiers) destroyed and permanently disbanded centuries earlier after attempting to pull off a coup d’état. It would seem that only four regiments remained after that. One of those (which remained unnamed) was destroyed in the Succession Wars. Blandford’s Cuirassiers might have been the 4th regiment, but canon never implies that.

Capellan Lancers:
At least 14 regiments, possibly 21 if you fit the 21st Centauri Lancers into the equation.

Regiments originally were both numbered and named after a specific world, perhaps indicating that they were recruited from there. If they really numbered over 20 regiments, then that would have probably made them the largest corps in the CCAF.

Capellan Chargers:
4(?) Regiments

The 5th regiment was not formed until 2805, so there could not have been more than four of them in 2785.

Capellan Reserve Cavalry:
6 Regiments

If you count Chesterton (or Andurien) you have six Commonalities. There therefore seems to be one Capellan Reserve Cavalry regiment for each of them. They may have served as the core of a mobile reserve force, hence their name.

Chesterton Reserves:
1st Ariana Fusiliers
Ariana Grenadiers
Hamilton’s Highlanders(?)
Sung's Cuirassiers

Hamilton’s Highlanders are mentioned in the text of the House Liao Sourcebook as existing before the start of the 1st Sucession War, but their profile later in the same book claims they were formed from a combination of units heavily damaged in the first years of the 2nd War. Hamilton’s was probably one of many Capellan Highlander regiments; it being the most senior, it kept its identity after the amalgamation.

Hamilton

Tikonov Reserves:
Kincaid’s Rangers (Not to be confused with Kincade’s Rangers)

St. Ives Armored Cavalry:
1st St. Ives Lancers
2nd St. Ives Lancers
St. Ives Cheveau Legers
Capellan (Justinia’s) Cuirassiers

There may have been a whole brigade of Capellan Cuirassiers regiments, with each one taking the name of a prominent noble or officer. That may be true for the grenadier, ranger and other types of regiments as well.

Other forces not known to be assigned to any one group:

Blandford’s Cuirassiers (Possibly the 4th Capellan Hussar Regiment?)
Hamilton’s Cavaliers (Possibly existed in 2785)
Ishira’s Grenadiers (Possibly existed in 2785)
Lefarge Hussars (Possibly existed in 2785)
Lothar’s Fusiliers (Possibly existed in 2785)
Shadrack’s Shadow Hawks (Possibly existed in 2785)
Shimosa’s Gravediggers (Possibly existed in 2785)
1st Tau Ceti Rangers (Wayne Waco’s Old Unit, disbanded 3007, possibly existed in 2785)
Various unnamed commando units (of battalion strength or greater) formed out of fast battlemechs.

The Lefarge Hussars were a regiment that became the infamous Wilson’s Hussar mercenary unit. A general named Lefarge is mentioned as serving the Confederation early in its history, so the chances of this regiment existing in 2785 are quite good. For the case of Lothar’s Fusiliers, see my theory about Hamilton’s Highlanders written above. The other units are somewhat more mysterious, and I’ll leave it up to others on how to handle them.
 
 
 Report to moderator    Logged 
 
 
 
Takiro
Administrator
Avatar

 Offline

Posts: 5059

 
     Re: CCAF House units in 2785
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2009, 10:41:08 AM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Looks good FirstStarLord, a lot of your numbers match what we have previously posted. Two comments.


Quote from: FirstStarLord on April 08, 2009, 03:59:09 AM
1st Tau Ceti Rangers (Wayne Waco’s Old Unit, disbanded 3007, possibly existed in 2785)


Thanks to the defection of the Tau Ceti Rangers to the Terran Republic I have effectively replaced that unit with the Turin Light Cavalry in the CCAF. Quote from FM Terran Republic below;


Quote
A few members of the unit refused to leave Liao space and elected to resign from the Rangers officially becoming part of the Capellan Confederation Armed Forces (CCAF). These individuals along with other Capellans who previously served in the Star League Defense Force (SLDF) have gone onto form the Turin Light Cavalry. This new Liao unit based on the League’s old Regimental Combat Teams has already proven itself in combat. While assembling on Turin they quickly dispatched a band of Periphery outlaws who thought they were attacking an undefended world. Currently at four battalions in strength it will take quite sometime until the Light Cavalry reaches full RCT size as the Chancellor has decreed.

Another interesting piece of information I stumbled on last week thanks to a CBT thread is the Lost Legion. Appearing Warrior En Garde basically they were the CCAF garrison of Shuen Wan. This world was prized for the kincha (not kimchee) which is a sweet citrus fruit with a thick blue rind. Grown only on this single planet it may have addictive properties. While the world was Capellan, the fruit was widely exported throughout the Confederation, and the Chancellor had it for breakfast each morning.  When the world fell to the FWL, the fruit disappeared from Capellan markets, and the Chancellor, enraged, made the consumption of the fruit an act of treason.  The CCAF Shuen Wan garrison was disgraced by their defeat, and became known as "The Lost Legion".

http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,49549.0.html 
 
 Report to moderator    Logged 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"It is better to be thought a fool, than open your mouth and remove all doubt."
    U. S. Grant

"Don't think about what I say, cause I don't."
   John Luther
 
 
Rainbow 6
Global Moderator
Champion

 Online

Posts: 829


    Re: CCAF House units in 2785
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2009, 05:39:28 PM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought the Turin Light Cavalry replaced the 4th Tau Ceti Rangers? 
 
 Report to moderator    86.161.188.69 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Userbar by Xtrahmxwohld
 
 
Takiro
Administrator
Avatar

 Offline

Posts: 5059

 
     Re: CCAF House units in 2785
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2009, 06:26:55 PM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They did along with the rest of the Rangers organization. 
 
 Report to moderator    Logged 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"It is better to be thought a fool, than open your mouth and remove all doubt."
    U. S. Grant

"Don't think about what I say, cause I don't."
   John Luther
 
 
Ice Hellion
Contributor
Grand Champion

 Offline

Posts: 3087

Part time builder of fallen Empires


      Re: CCAF House units in 2785
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2009, 06:32:40 PM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well in FM Terran Republic, the 4th is mentioned as being the former Liao unit.
The 5th and the 6th are former SLDF units that were "given" to the Tau Ceti Rangers to increase their strength. 
 
 Report to moderator    Logged 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


In Turn they tested each Clan namesake in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle. Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down. All failed to match the predator's speed and grace. Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5
 
 

Takiro
Administrator
Avatar

 Online

Posts: 5059

 
     Re: CCAF House units in 2785
« Reply #45 on: April 13, 2009, 08:50:31 PM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah, gotcha. 
 
 Report to moderator    Logged 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"It is better to be thought a fool, than open your mouth and remove all doubt."
    U. S. Grant

"Don't think about what I say, cause I don't."
   John Luther
 
 
FirstStarLord
Advocate

 Offline

Posts: 118


    Re: CCAF House units in 2785
« Reply #46 on: April 13, 2009, 11:06:53 PM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: Ice Hellion on April 13, 2009, 08:45:47 PM
I was just trying to answer that question.

I hope it makes it clearer (and any mistakes are mine as I did not check info in any Sourcebooks yet).


I'm not so sure about that theory. It seems that institutional racism only became a problem in the Confederation under Sun-Tzu Liao. He never planned it as such, but the Xin Sheng program encouraged East Asian Capellans to begin to assert their "inherent" superiority over other groups (including the Russians). There's a passage in the Shattered Sphere book about a Chinese Capellan soldier wondering why he and his comrades should show any compassion to the "round-eyes" after the end of the St. Ives conflict. The people in question were ethnic Russians living on St. Ives proper.

Again, the losses of the Sucession Wars and the rebirth of Capellan nationalism in the 31st century probably led to that new attitude. In the Star League era the demographics and political philosophy of the Confederation were probably quite different then what we know of in 3025. The Liaos are themselves of very diverse racial and cultural origins, and they displayed no favortism towards any one group before Max Liao began a subtle but noticeable tilt towards East Asian culture.

Now the Draconis Combine on the other hand... but that's a discussion for another time. 
 
 Report to moderator    Logged 
 
 
 
Ice Hellion
Contributor
Grand Champion

 Offline

Posts: 3087

Part time builder of fallen Empires


      Re: CCAF House units in 2785
« Reply #47 on: April 14, 2009, 06:35:53 PM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Even if it is not official, I would say that it must be rampant. 
 
 Report to moderator    Logged 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


In Turn they tested each Clan namesake in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle. Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down. All failed to match the predator's speed and grace. Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5