OBT Forum
General BattleTech => Cartography Central => Topic started by: Blacknova on July 03, 2012, 12:49:59 AM
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DRAFT 3144 IS Map attached for comment. I wanted input from various quaters as to whether I have the borders correct or not, as I do not own any of the DA books.
The map also shows the LC/Wolf advance and pre-War LC border, just to depress fellow Lyran fans.
I then have to cut the polygons for the Provinces and Regions and then make educated guesses as to what the internal borders and capitals of some states would now be.
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
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Haven't touched my DA books yet, so I'm pretty much stuck in 3130
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I have a few of the DA books I'll have a look at the maps and list the planets under each realm if that helps
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I have a few of the DA books I'll have a look at the maps and list the planets under each realm if that helps
If you just check for errors in what I have shown, that would be perfect, saves listing all of the planets.
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The only books that will really show 3144 is Bonfire of Worlds (and possibly the later two FWL books). Every other map is set well before that. And I only have the Bonfire map in the PDF, where you can't zoom in any way readable.
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I have the bonfire PDF in the 15 parts. What section is the map in?
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I think a map for 3144 is quite a stretch really, apart from the events shown in Bonfire. No other novel even touches 3140, and between fortress in 3136 and the reformation of the FWL in 3139 there is so much going on with worlds changing hands, banding together and so on, that it's just impossible to extrapolate the entire inner sphere for 4 years.
Just two examples: The Senate Alliance, which has the capital on Augustine and controls a handful of worlds around it stays a separate entity even after the formation of the FWL. So the borders there would definitely be wrong for 3140 but we have no info about 3144. Also in 3136 Vega becomes independent as the Vega Protectorate under rule of the Ghost Bear's Omega Galaxy, who cut their ties to the Dominion in order to serve Vega. AFAIK we don't have any info if they stay, get smashed or even expand to nearby planets. There are many such examples, which is why I think 3144 is almost impossible right now.
I'd recommend to set up a 3140 map (or even 3136 first), where at least some hard facts are known, and once that is done include anything beyond bit by bit, first Bonfire and then anything else if and when it becomes available. I'm also in the process of re-reading some of the DA novels, and I can supply some hard facts when they come up during my reading.
I have to say this whole map project is really a great thing and a huge service to the community. Thank you so much!
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I have the bonfire PDF in the 15 parts. What section is the map in?
I have the full novel in one file, so I can't say definitely. However, the Wolf Empire map is posted just before the Acknowledgements section. Presumably, this would be part 15.
I think a map for 3144 is quite a stretch really, apart from the events shown in Bonfire.
It's a lot of guesswork. Most of it comes from the fans who took the full IS 3144 overlay map (provided on the Bonfire map) and put it over the 3130 map. As you mentioned, things like the Vega Protectorate worlds, the Senate Alliance, and the various independent former Republic worlds...they all become very problematic.
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I think a map for 3144 is quite a stretch really, apart from the events shown in Bonfire. No other novel even touches 3140, and between fortress in 3136 and the reformation of the FWL in 3139 there is so much going on with worlds changing hands, banding together and so on, that it's just impossible to extrapolate the entire inner sphere for 4 years.
This is the main reason for the request for assistance, as I have next to no working knowledge of the novels past Falcon Rising, something I began to change by starting Threads of Ambition two days ago.
Just two examples: The Senate Alliance, which has the capital on Augustine and controls a handful of worlds around it stays a separate entity even after the formation of the FWL. So the borders there would definitely be wrong for 3140 but we have no info about 3144. Also in 3136 Vega becomes independent as the Vega Protectorate under rule of the Ghost Bear's Omega Galaxy, who cut their ties to the Dominion in order to serve Vega. AFAIK we don't have any info if they stay, get smashed or even expand to nearby planets. There are many such examples, which is why I think 3144 is almost impossible right now.
Fair point, maybe 3144 is a map to far...
(http://I'd recommend to set up a 3140 map (or even 3136 first), where at least some hard facts are known, and once that is done include anything beyond bit by bit, first Bonfire and then anything else if and when it becomes available. I'm also in the process of re-reading some of the DA novels, and I can supply some hard facts when they come up during my reading.)
That I might do, thanks for the tips and any information you can provide would be greatley appreciated.
I have to say this whole map project is really a great thing and a huge service to the community. Thank you so much!
Thanks for the kind words, it is nice to know they are assisting people.
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I have the full novel in one file, so I can't say definitely. However, the Wolf Empire map is posted just before the Acknowledgements section. Presumably, this would be part 15.
Can't see it for looking. Is there any chance you can make a copy of the map for use in the mapping?
It's a lot of guesswork. Most of it comes from the fans who took the full IS 3144 overlay map (provided on the Bonfire map) and put it over the 3130 map. As you mentioned, things like the Vega Protectorate worlds, the Senate Alliance, and the various independent former Republic worlds...they all become very problematic.
I am sure they do. I might use the idea jerome had and start from 3130 again and go map by map, instead of trying to jump to far ahead.
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Can't see it for looking. Is there any chance you can make a copy of the map for use in the mapping?
Attached below. I'm terrible with knowing anything about image files or manipulation, so if you need something more than that...you're out of luck. :)
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Thanks
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At least that also gives a good view of Vega and the remaining ROTS independent worlds.
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wow, i never knew that map existed. that renders both my examples obsolete *lol* Senate Alliance seems to be gone and Vega Protectorate expanded to a good part of Prefecture I...
Still I think a step-by-step approach would be a good idea with all the sketchy information.
BTW, are you going to release the shape files for the new maps as well?
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I'll get those out and I missed the Provinces for the Dominion in 3085 and 3130.
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That's the source image used to overlay the 3144 borders over the 3130 one? Interesting... I'll see if i can't a more crisp blown up version of that and compare to your 3144 pdf.
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Tagged.
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Nova, going solely by the overlay map I linked earlier, it appears that the disputed worlds between FS and DC have gone to DC. From very vague memory, I think that may have happened when Katana Tormak signed on with the Coordinator as a Warlord.
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Thanks for the update.
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I won't say that it's right, but it's the best that can be done with this murky place in the timeline. :)
I think I had the Falcons and Wolves closer to Terra on my list, but take that with an extremely large truckload of salt. Eyeballing it was the rule when I built that list. The two Falcon novels would be the place to look at for that info. If anybody has them, that is. I'm also not real sure that Castor/Pollux/Devil's Rock make it inside the Fortress. I thought I remembered the FWL novels having them picked up by Thaddeus Marik before he married Jessica (and then died). Again, lots of salt. That's from very rusty memory, so there's nothing to back it up.
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If there is someone whith all the books that can scan the various maps for me and also provide a general overview of the 3130-3144 time period, it would make things a lot more accurate an I woukd be eternaly grateful.
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Here are the four relevant maps of Books 1 to 14. Those not included either show the 3130 status, have an exact reproduction of a previous book, or don't have a map at all.
All maps beyond book 14 (except Bonfire) can be found on Oystein's page: http://home.ifi.uio.no/~oysteint/btech/MWDA.html
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Also, here is a most complete Dark Age timeline. I'd like to give credit to the author, but I found it somewhere on the net and don't remember where it came from.
BEWARE!! If you have not yet read all the DA novels, this is FULL of spoilers, since it essentially covers ALL the events recounted in the novels. This also means that it will be some work to filter out any information concerning planets changing hands, but it should all be in there I guess.
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You sir, are an officer and a gentleman. Thanks for that, should do the trick nicely.
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a little bit of necromancy... I got my lazy self to start working on 3135 and 3139. I'm considering working on 3144 next. anyone wanna lend a hand? I've completed all of the 3135 pdf maps from Oystein's page. I'll be working on the 3139 next before i start working on the other partial maps from the DA books.
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I would suggest just waiting a few months until Era Report 3140 is out.
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ah, i didn't know there was gonna be one... that would greatly simplify my life.
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3144 is incredibly problematic, as you only have the Bonfire overlay to work from. Somewhere on the boards I threw up a spreadsheet of my own best guesses as to what worlds changed hands, but it is rather difficult to see clearly where the new borders fall.
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Do you know wherei can take a peek at the overlay? I don't have bonfire so i'd need a different souce. I might be able to match up the overlay's borders with the latest map data that i have.
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The Bonfire map (which has the overlay on it as well) can be found earlier in the thread, right back here. (http://www.ourbattletech.com/forum/cartography-central/3144-inner-sphere-map/msg22113/#msg22113) Someone also made a map (over on the BT forums) that put the overlay over the 3130 map. I honestly don't recall where that is over there, but I'll attach it here. Proper credit given to whoever did it, as I don't remember. I'll also throw a link to the AU thread where I discussed (and posted) the ownership changes I guessworked from the 3130 map via the 3144 overlay. That can be found here. (http://www.ourbattletech.com/forum/parallel-universes/post-lapsum-(au-idea-in-progress)/msg20740/#msg20740) There is also some data comparison between 3130 and 3144 in the posts after the link.
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I would suggest just waiting a few months until Era Report 3140 is out.
Apparently, either Era Report: 3145 or volume 2 of Liberation of Terra will be out this weekend. (Hopefully, whichever book isn't up this time around won't take too long to follow suit.)
As an aside, how about that ER:3145 cover art (http://bg.battletech.com/wp-content/uploads/Wallpapers/ER3145_Wallpaper@1600x1200.jpg)?
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It's a world of awesome :) Best thing to come out of DA so far