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Author Topic: 3250  (Read 1969 times)

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Blacknova

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3250
« on: October 26, 2012, 08:55:38 PM »

I thought I might start a thread where the little bits of information we recieve about the 3250 era can be coallated.  Each of these bits of information have come from comments Herb has made on the boards or in BattleChats.

As futher information is released by TPTB, if you post it here, also insert a link so it can be verified.

So far these are the facts we have so far:

SETTING

1. 3250 is the new era;

2. A new set of core Mechs will be introduced;

3. State militaries will be on the same technological level, with everyone else below them;

4. Free Taiw...St.Ives "may" have showcased some of the equipment of the new era; and

5. There will be a lower variety of Mechs in the new era.

6. Common Mech models of the 3085 era will be be fairly obsolete

RULES

1. Revisions to the TacOps rules likely wont occur before 2015;

2. The list of weapons for the 3250 setting is under 20, replacing virtually every class of weapon system in current play; and

3. The 3250 box set may see a more user friendly introductory rules set.

PRODUCTS

1. A sourcebook called ilClan will be released;

2. An introductory boxset for the new era is being investigated; and

3. 3025 material will start being released in 2014, or so the theory goes.
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Takiro

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Re: 3250
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2012, 09:21:27 PM »

Good stuff Nova, I look forward to more developments.
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lucho

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Re: 3250
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2012, 12:19:55 AM »

First, Takiro's right: good work. We need a place with the few solid facts.

Second, Like many others, I'm mostly in the "wait and see" camp. There's still a lot of emotion and few facts (SOP every time TPTB test an idea in this fashion).

Third, I really, really hope that I'm not too far out in left field when I say I feel cold tendrils of dread enveloping me upon seeing yet another example of the dumbing down of something we hold dear. Reducing the number of  mechs and- more importantly- weapons, a more "user friendly introductory rules set?" Please tell me that you all don't seriously think that the 'dumbing down' of the franchise is a good thing  >:(
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Dragon Cat

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Re: 3250
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2012, 12:31:29 AM »

7. from Free Taiw... St Ives I think the era may be called the 3rd Star League at least it's more than a date
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Really, as long as there is an unbroken line of people calling themselves "Clan Nova Cat," it doesn't really matter to me if they're still using Iron Wombs or not. They may be dead as a faction, but as a people they still exist. It's not uncommon in the real world, after all.

Blacknova

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Re: 3250
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2012, 01:06:24 AM »

To those who are freaking out about an apparent dumbing down...3025 had about 4 dozen Mechs and a similar number of vehicles, plus 12 fighters.  There were 17 weapons and the box sets have had an introductory rules set for a while and the ultimate dumbing down (quick strike) is fun to play an popular, or at least seems to be.

3025 is considered by many, not all, the golden age, so unless you are a Tac/Strat Ops rules junkie, I really dont think it will matter that much and even then, you will still have era support and can play whatever rules you want.

BT will be BT, Mechs will be Mechs and small blue furry creatures from Alpha Centauri will still be small blue furry creatures from Alpha Centauri.
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Dread Moores

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Re: 3250
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2012, 08:12:32 AM »

Please tell me that you all don't seriously think that the 'dumbing down' of the franchise is a good thing  >:(

Actually, yes. I think it's long overdue. Then again, I wouldn't call it dumbing down. I'd call it recognize that what worked in the 1980's game market doesn't necessarily work in the market of 201X. I'd also call it realizing that continuing on the exact same path of tech creep, overbloating of units, and/or correcting a general mix and match attitude that doesn't work quite as well as you might think. So, yes, if we're agreeing to use the terms I'd actually define it as...I'm absolutely onboard. Particularly in terms of the storyline. BT needs to not be the future of the 1980's anymore. Like pronto.  ;)

On a more serious note, simplifying and reclassifying a long-running system and setting don't automatically equal "dumbing down." The potential is certainly there, but the implementation is the key. One could have an incredibly simple interface on a program that is still an incredible powerful and flexibile program. The same holds true for just about...well, anything.

Tech creep, moving forward from 3250, is still a future concern. I have a great deal more faith in the current freelancer crop than the FASA-era one to balance game mechanics enough to allow for growth without overwhelming bloat. I realize that it is likely heresy, but FASA-era products have never really appeared (to me) to be the shiny bastions of awesomesauce that some fans seem to find through their rose-colored glasses. Big picture? Yeah, it worked quite well (considering the game's longevity, obviously). Once you drill down into the details? Not so much.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2012, 08:15:33 AM by Dread Moores »
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JPArbiter

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Re: 3250
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2012, 10:59:23 AM »

Third, I really, really hope that I'm not too far out in left field when I say I feel cold tendrils of dread enveloping me upon seeing yet another example of the dumbing down of something we hold dear. Reducing the number of  mechs and- more importantly- weapons, a more "user friendly introductory rules set?" Please tell me that you all don't seriously think that the 'dumbing down' of the franchise is a good thing  >:(

Personally I hate it when people fear the "dumbing down" of thier hobby or game.  to me that reeks of trying to be insularity.  to broaden to focus a little bit, it tells me that hardcore gamers in general just don't want the game to be avaliable to anyone but themselves and thier particular culture.  it is one thing when gamers do it, but if we encourage our developers to be insular as well and cater only to us, that creates a sales problem in the long term.

I am sure Knightmare and his experience with Games Workshop USA has plenty to go off of on how developers focused on the hardcore demographic of thier audience are lucky to still be functioning.
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Dragon Cat

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Re: 3250
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2012, 12:35:18 PM »

Don't so mind the simpler ideas I just don't want a rehash of 3025

I first played BT in the mid 90s having simple designs did make for fun games but at the same time the multiple weapons of today make for just as interesting games on a different scale

3025 was well suited for lance v lance shorter ranges slower movement

3085 era I'd say is more suited to multi lance v multi lance formations faster movement more weapons

Question is where will 3250 take us....
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Really, as long as there is an unbroken line of people calling themselves "Clan Nova Cat," it doesn't really matter to me if they're still using Iron Wombs or not. They may be dead as a faction, but as a people they still exist. It's not uncommon in the real world, after all.

Blacknova

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Re: 3250
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2012, 06:00:02 PM »

Question is where will 3250 take us....

To infinity and beyond!

« Last Edit: October 27, 2012, 06:02:52 PM by Blacknova »
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Dragon Cat

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Re: 3250
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2012, 06:58:53 PM »

Question is where will 3250 take us....

To infinity and beyond!



Facepalm walked into that
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Really, as long as there is an unbroken line of people calling themselves "Clan Nova Cat," it doesn't really matter to me if they're still using Iron Wombs or not. They may be dead as a faction, but as a people they still exist. It's not uncommon in the real world, after all.

Blacknova

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Re: 3250
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2012, 07:09:35 PM »

Yes you did.
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Re: 3250
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2012, 10:52:47 PM »

does not change how awesome that was.
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Re: 3250
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2012, 02:27:29 PM »

Now that made me Lol.

And now i've had to explain to the mrs what was so funny.
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Re: 3250
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2012, 05:27:05 PM »

I am sure Knightmare and his experience with Games Workshop USA has plenty to go off of on how developers focused on the hardcore demographic of thier audience are lucky to still be functioning.

I'll bite.

During my tenure with GW Corporate, one of the corporate idioms that always struck me as funny was their term for Warhammer 40K. GW Corp employees used to call it "Chutes & Ladders". Meaning, compared to Fantasy, 40K was a decidedly simple game, and therefore a child's game.

In an office of about 50 people, not including Red Shirts, I'd say maybe two-to-three were 40K players first and Fantasy players second. It's a telling percentage, but not so telling considering these people were dedicated GW hobbyists – We're talking about Golden Demon, National Championship-type hobbyists here.

So keep that in mind. 

Now don't get me wrong. I'm not saying these people disliked 40K. Quite the contrary. Almost every employee had a least one 40K army in their collection, but most found the Fantasy game to be more complex and more challenging; therefore a better game for the "hardcore" competitive player. Fantasy was clearly more advanced, and the player type consistently proved it.

That said, most people would then assume Fantasy was the better selling of the two main GW product lines. After all, a dedicated, highly motivated, and competitive cadre of hobbyists would be keen to purchase lots of product.   

Anyone want to take a guess which line actually sold better?

If you said 40K you'd be correct.

While the models and storyline have a lot to do with initial appeal, the truth was that 40K play was better suited to young or new table top gamers. One of the many trends we capitalized on as Account Managers was the transition from 40K to Fantasy/LotR – bringing new gamers through one product line and then into another – once they reached a certain point in their hobby, i.e. where "hardcore" or competitive play was now the norm.

Truth be told, by the time these hobbyists reached the aforementioned point they were typically already hooked for one reason or another, but branching them out to another, more complex line made sense and would generate additional revenue. Also, at this point in the hobbyist cycle there's a whole different set of requirements to keep them happy – which I'll get into below. 

99.9% of all targeted hobbyists generally fall into two categories. Those with limited or no exposure (new market) and existing (old market) hobbyists. They're two different, yet inter-connected hobby markets.

I've intentionally left out lost, or the returning hobbyist market because their market value is much smaller than the other two...

Having a game or game line with ascending levels of complexity and difficulty is extremely important. A "dumb" basic game for introductory, general and even some tournament play is especially useful in garnering new hobbyists from an extremely competitive market. Which by the way, isn't shrinking.

Table Top Market Econ 101 – The niche Gaming Market is not (truly) affected by Macro-Economics.

So now you're scratching your head. Why you ask? Well, the easiest way to explain it is to tell you about the young kid who gets $10 a week for lunch money and a $10 a week allowance. Every week the kid buys his school lunch and spends his weekly allowance on Pokemon cards. Life is good. Then all of a sudden his parents lose their jobs and can only provide their kid with the $10 for lunch. You know what happens? Market and research data shows that the kid will starve himself every week just to spend the same $10 bucks on his Pokemon cards.

This same scenario plays itself out every day.

It's true that economic recessions reduce market size, but the gaming industry is affected differently. In fact, the board game industry saw a decent jump in overall revenue growth during the first years of the American Recession because parents and families found the value in repetitive game play.

Remember, Table Top Gaming is an investment. So, the product's "value" is typically in excess to the product's cost. The capital outlay pales in comparison to the hours upon hours of fun.

Ain't psychology grand?

So how is that applicable to BattleTech...

Well, without getting into specifics – I neither want, nor care to pass judgment, I'm just talking about a game, not a company – BattleTech would do well to have a simplified, fast, easy-to-play introductory game (which I think it has with Quickstart IMO). A game that appeals to today's typical gamer, but with the capacity to add layers of advanced and technical rules.

In terms of complexity, I think BattleTech already has a great line of Core Rule Books that serve up the complexity by the bucket full. That said, would a simpler introductory game hurt BattleTech? Absolutely not.

IF anything it'll help introduce and reintroduce casual gamers to the line, while the advanced core rules will help keep them playing well after the glossy veneer of "simplicity" wears thin. There's a reason why video games start off easy and progressively become more difficult.

Challenges are invitations for investment. Investment generates revenue. Revenue creates new product and happy gamers.






« Last Edit: October 28, 2012, 05:33:39 PM by Knightmare »
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Dread Moores

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Re: 3250
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2012, 11:51:31 PM »

On an entirely unrelated note: I'd kill to see 3250 and forward move away from the location based (for armor/IS) and crit table based (for equipment and critical hits) damage resolution. Something more along the lines of overall protective value, and equipment failing automatically at certain damage intervals would do a great deal to reduce wasted time in game while still keeping the complexity that critical hits and damage effects allow.
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