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Author Topic: A Discussion: Z List mechs you inexplicably love  (Read 1286 times)

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JPArbiter

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A Discussion: Z List mechs you inexplicably love
« on: August 08, 2012, 01:15:39 PM »
They are all out there.  The Jackrabbit, the Mauler, Fireball, Koshi, Hoplite, Vulcan, and Blackjack name a few.  Battlemechs that are considered bottom tier not just for thier weight class, but for all of Battletech.  Yet I notice a fair number of fans get drawn to them.  Whether it is made famous by their preferred faction, or it uses a weapon system that they are drawn to, or even the mech itself is so rediculously asinine that it has more charm then all the Daishi's and Timber Wolves in the Kerensky Cluster.  What is that Mech for you?

for me it is the Jagermech.  unequivocally the lowest of the low for many, few would willingly use one, usually being assigned it graced by the RAT with one.  I love the thing cause of it's extreme range, low heat and endurance, despite it's low damage output and pitiful armor protection.  add on top of that it's look is more fearsome (to me) then it's closest competitor, the rifleman, and it just screams awesome to me.

I took the jagermech and learned how to deploy it, and that has led to a saying with me.

"I never expect you to fear the Jager, but under my hands, you WILL respect it."
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Ice Hellion

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Re: A Discussion: Z List mechs you inexplicably love
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2012, 01:56:02 PM »
I guess most official 'Mechs fall into this category.
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JPArbiter

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Re: A Discussion: Z List mechs you inexplicably love
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2012, 02:06:54 PM »
Quote from: Ice Hellion on August 08, 2012, 01:56:02 PM
I guess most official 'Mechs fall into this category.

I dunno if I would go that far, but I was talking official canon mechs.
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Cestusrex

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Re: A Discussion: Z List mechs you inexplicably love
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2012, 02:52:23 PM »
I don't know about Z list mechs but their are a few "neglected" mechs that I've always liked.  The Cestus (go figure), Tempest, Clint, Banshee-S, and a whole laundry list of "newer" (hey, they were new when I started drifting away from BT in the 3060's) designs like the Lynx (though my memory won't let me think of any of their names other then the Lynx).  Of the Z list mechs (I'm thinking that description comes from the fact that these designs have some major or percieved design flaw like the aformentioned Jagermech's paper thin armor or the Blackjack's pop gun weapons payload) I'd have to say my favorite would have to be the Grasshopper. I know, some would say it doesn't qualify as a Z list mech because it does live up to its design philosophy; a somewhat-mobile heavy mech.  But I say any heavy that only has a LL and an LRM 5 as its long range fire power isn't much of a heavy.  That being said I still like it.
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JPArbiter

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Re: A Discussion: Z List mechs you inexplicably love
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2012, 03:28:23 PM »
When I say Z List I mean "The Last Mechs on earth a majority of Mech Heads would choose."  I like to define it by what I call the SVC Line (Stinger, Vindicator, Crusader).  If you are presented a choice between a Z List mech, and an "Average" Mech one weight class down (or 20 tons for lights), like a Vindicator compared to a Quickdraw, you will take the Vindicator.

the Grasshopper is a beast so long as you are not afraid to use it properly.  if you are expecting to stand off and play cowboys and indians at 18 hexes you are doing it wrong.  the Grasshopper, like the enforcer is meant to get in your face and make you hurt, and hurt bad.  the placement of the large laser is also a bit of brilliance cause the thing will be a threat long bas when Warhammers, Marauders, and Zeus are disarmed.

that said the fact that it is a close combat heavy rather then a stand off heavy does get it relegated to the back role, so I can see it as a Z Lister
« Last Edit: August 08, 2012, 03:33:19 PM by JPArbiter »
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Re: A Discussion: Z List mechs you inexplicably love
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2012, 07:22:14 PM »
...Well, from the beginning, the Tempest refused to live up to my interest.  Also the Mad-7D (with the RAC/5), the Cestus, Blackjack - the list is a long one.  If pressed, I would have to say the winner is the Osiris (with the extended jump radius) and the Jinggau win top honors for most persistent use.
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Cestusrex

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Re: A Discussion: Z List mechs you inexplicably love
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2012, 08:41:38 PM »
Quote from: JPArbiter on August 08, 2012, 03:28:23 PM
the Grasshopper is a beast so long as you are not afraid to use it properly.  if you are expecting to stand off and play cowboys and indians at 18 hexes you are doing it wrong.  the Grasshopper, like the enforcer is meant to get in your face and make you hurt, and hurt bad.  the placement of the large laser is also a bit of brilliance cause the thing will be a threat long bas when Warhammers, Marauders, and Zeus are disarmed.

that said the fact that it is a close combat heavy rather then a stand off heavy does get it relegated to the back role, so I can see it as a Z Lister

I agree.  I always try to put an ERLL in the CT when I'm designing a mech (of course I don't think I've designed a new in 6 years) because it gives you a solid weapon that almost never gets knocked out.  Why TPTB design mechs with most, if not all, of their weapons in the arms is beyond me.  Yeah, yeah firing arcs and all that jive.  Take the left arm off a Scarabus and you've got a light mech with a hatchet.  Good luck with that.
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Audemus Jura Nostra Defendere

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Re: A Discussion: Z List mechs you inexplicably love
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2012, 10:14:36 AM »
it boils down to well protected weapons vs wide field of fire, and both a legit in most concerns.
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Re: A Discussion: Z List mechs you inexplicably love
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2012, 02:26:14 PM »
I think the Dervish, it's the 55 tonner that is always overlooked

I like the mix of speed, jump jets

LRMs for ranged then medium and paddle arm mediums as I close
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Cestusrex

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Re: A Discussion: Z List mechs you inexplicably love
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2012, 06:48:26 PM »
Quote from: JPArbiter on August 09, 2012, 10:14:36 AM
it boils down to well protected weapons vs wide field of fire, and both a legit in most concerns.

Both are concerns, IMHO one just out weighs the other.  Going back to the Scarabus the left arc is very well cover, 2 MLs and 2 SLs, but the right gets a hatchet.  Say whaaaa?  Again IMHO I think that TPTB created canon designs with intentional flaws to keep things... interesting.  I mean, what fun would BT be if you had just one or two "perfect" mechs per wieght class?

Quote from: Dragon Cat on August 09, 2012, 02:26:14 PM
I think the Dervish, it's the 55 tonner that is always overlooked

I like the mix of speed, jump jets

LRMs for ranged then medium and paddle arm mediums as I close

Getting back on topic.  I too like the Dervish.  It never got the attention or love that the Shadowhawk, Griffin, and Wolverine got (did anyone in the Blood pilot a Wolverine?) but neither did the Enforcer (which according to canon material you couldn't swing a dead Cappie without hitting in the FS/FC) or the Vindicator (which, again, according to canon material you couldn't swing a dead Fedrat without hitting in the CC).
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Re: A Discussion: Z List mechs you inexplicably love
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2012, 12:55:26 PM »
I really like the Albatross and the Grand Titan.
Why? No clue but their pictures in TRO 3055 were kind of cool.
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
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The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

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Re: A Discussion: Z List mechs you inexplicably love
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2012, 11:48:26 AM »
Quote from: Cestusrex on August 09, 2012, 06:48:26 PM
Both are concerns, IMHO one just out weighs the other.  Going back to the Scarabus the left arc is very well cover, 2 MLs and 2 SLs, but the right gets a hatchet.  Say whaaaa? 

The intent was so that you could fire all the weapons and still attack with the hatchet, since you cannot make a physical attack with an arm that has fired weapons in the same turn.  I agree that it would have been wise to mount at least one of those weapons in the torso, but as you said, TPTB deliberately try to avoid creating ÃœberMunch machines.  Considering that the arm can still fire directly to the rear on a torso twist, it's not a massive weakness.
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Re: A Discussion: Z List mechs you inexplicably love
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2012, 03:11:35 PM »
Quote from: MadCapellan on August 11, 2012, 11:48:26 AM
Quote from: Cestusrex on August 09, 2012, 06:48:26 PM
Both are concerns, IMHO one just out weighs the other.  Going back to the Scarabus the left arc is very well cover, 2 MLs and 2 SLs, but the right gets a hatchet.  Say whaaaa? 

The intent was so that you could fire all the weapons and still attack with the hatchet, since you cannot make a physical attack with an arm that has fired weapons in the same turn.  I agree that it would have been wise to mount at least one of those weapons in the torso, but as you said, TPTB deliberately try to avoid creating ÃœberMunch machines.  Considering that the arm can still fire directly to the rear on a torso twist, it's not a massive weakness.

and that fault was later corrected on the Valiant, for those of thus that are not pudjudiced against things that came fro the Dark Age
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