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Author Topic: A Star League-era What if  (Read 4166 times)

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Dragon Cat

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A Star League-era What if
« on: January 27, 2017, 11:12:57 PM »

So we have had many what if scenarios but here's one I can't remember ever seeing (correct me if I'm wrong)

The SLDF after defeating Amaris knew they could not hold the old Hegemony together - already the Succession States were at the gates.  They also knew that they could not retreat back to Amaris territory in the Rim Worlds because there wasn't much there to begin with and what was now the Lyran Commonwealth wanted.

So Aleksandr Kerensky and his commanders decided that they needed to get out of dodge.  But instead of going the whole hog of an Exodus they selected a target...  New Samarkand.

From canon the SLDF leave the Hegemony as planned heading for New Samarkand where they got ready to leave the Inner Sphere.  But instead of leaving the SLDF go ahead and take over New Samarkand and everything around them setting themselves up as a new nation.

They have the Outworlds behind them that don't want a fight.  The Federated Suns who would rather see the Combine hurt and the Combine itself who will be a problem but have two Succession States to cater for.

Could the SLDF remaining as a new nation shorten the First Succession War to just the Hegemony worlds?

Would the Combine and Federated Suns eventually say we're going after you too?

Would the SLDF stay together?  There is no stress of an Exodus, no long journey in the dark to fracture the Defence Force no need to demobilize to become farmers due to the native population.

Would they end up taking over the Outworlds too?
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Really, as long as there is an unbroken line of people calling themselves "Clan Nova Cat," it doesn't really matter to me if they're still using Iron Wombs or not. They may be dead as a faction, but as a people they still exist. It's not uncommon in the real world, after all.

Ice Hellion

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Re: A Star League-era What if
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2017, 09:08:40 AM »

My main question is why New Samarkand?
The former capital of the Draconis Combine might not be the most obvious choice.

Why not go for the Rim Worlds Republic?
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Dragon Cat

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Re: A Star League-era What if
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2017, 09:29:58 AM »

The reason I went with New Samarkand was it was along the course of the SLDF fleet per canon

The Rim Worlds were already in trouble from Lyran attack by the Exodus so they'd be dropping into a war while the Hegemony had enemies on all sides New Samarkand has one clear enemy
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Really, as long as there is an unbroken line of people calling themselves "Clan Nova Cat," it doesn't really matter to me if they're still using Iron Wombs or not. They may be dead as a faction, but as a people they still exist. It's not uncommon in the real world, after all.

Takiro

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Re: A Star League-era What if
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2017, 12:17:15 AM »

I just don't see it Dragon Cat. I mean if I am Kerensky and I decide to stay why not just defect to the Lyran Commonwealth. The Archon was wildly unpopular and most folks loved the Star League. If you can get the Lyrans it links the Hegemony and the Rim Worlds. To form the largest star empire around. Then you can try to liberate Rasalhague from the Dracs maybe lure a few Free Worlds.
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Dragon Cat

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Re: A Star League-era What if
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2017, 02:26:39 AM »

Not a bad plan in all honesty I thought this up on a whim I know Kerensky in reality was dead cert to leave while his officers wanted an Empire Aflame.  This little scenario was an attempt at out of the box thinking probably wouldn't work
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Really, as long as there is an unbroken line of people calling themselves "Clan Nova Cat," it doesn't really matter to me if they're still using Iron Wombs or not. They may be dead as a faction, but as a people they still exist. It's not uncommon in the real world, after all.

drakensis

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Re: A Star League-era What if
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2017, 06:32:37 AM »

The Outworlds Wastes would probably be a more viable choice in political terms - the colonies there needed Star League technology to function and were noted as being more loyal to the Star League than the Outworlds Alliance. It's unlikely the Avellars would have objected.

Taking New Samarkand would be far more aggressive - it's the historic capital of the Draconis Combine so House Kurita would almost HAVE to retake it, damn the cost. Otherwise they're disgraced and dishonoured.




It's questionable how economically stable such a nation would be, but struggling to cope with that would explain why they were left alone for the First Succession War.

It's also possible that this could lead to castes developing organically:
a group working to set up the manufacturing capacity to support their needs (the technicans)
a group working to co-ordinate shipping resources from world to world as most of the colonies aren't self-sufficient (the merchants)
a group focused on defending their resources from outside raiding and ward off the armies of the Succession Wars (the warriors)
a group working to apply Star League technology to get them out of the economic deathtrap they're caught in (the scientists)
and finally those who don't really have the skills or training to do anything but grunt labour and service industries - frowned on because they don't directly contribute to the planned economy but necessary to let off the social pressures (the laborers)

ComStar, on re-establishing contact, might well come to an agreement that they'll help provide critical resources as long as the new Star League doesn't shake their HPG monopoly.
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Dragon Cat

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Re: A Star League-era What if
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2017, 09:30:15 AM »

Could be in interesting approach the SLDF see that they are no longer the Star League Defence Force and morph into the Clans near the Inner Sphere

Not quite sure they would split into so many or even split at all maybe just one "Clan" or Clan styled faction that sees the old way of rulership doesn't work and that there needs to be one central authority
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Really, as long as there is an unbroken line of people calling themselves "Clan Nova Cat," it doesn't really matter to me if they're still using Iron Wombs or not. They may be dead as a faction, but as a people they still exist. It's not uncommon in the real world, after all.

MAD-4A

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Re: A Star League-era What if
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2017, 10:07:10 AM »

2 issues with this:

1st - there were several units who didn't go, the Highlanders, the 12 Star Guard/Lindon's Company, Eridani Light Horse... all former SLDF units. If the SLDF had remained behind, it would have shuffled off units like a molting bird. each unit going merc or jumping in to whatever house the commanders/troops were most loyal too (as Kerensky predicted). As it was, the SLDF fell apart into civil war, while in exile, and Nicky boy had to reform the survivors into what became the Clans. That would have been massively accelerated with promise of paymasters a few jumps away.

a2nd -
Would the Combine and Federated Suns eventually say we're going after you too?
YES, in the 1st SW they had no qualms with nukes or orbital bombardment. In your scenario, after all the units that can be bribed away are gone, New Samarkand takes it from booth ends and becomes a radioactive waste dump.
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Dragon Cat

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Re: A Star League-era What if
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2017, 12:34:37 PM »

Unfortunately probably right
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Really, as long as there is an unbroken line of people calling themselves "Clan Nova Cat," it doesn't really matter to me if they're still using Iron Wombs or not. They may be dead as a faction, but as a people they still exist. It's not uncommon in the real world, after all.

Ice Hellion

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Re: A Star League-era What if
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2017, 04:11:42 PM »

I just don't see it Dragon Cat. I mean if I am Kerensky and I decide to stay why not just defect to the Lyran Commonwealth. The Archon was wildly unpopular and most folks loved the Star League. If you can get the Lyrans it links the Hegemony and the Rim Worlds. To form the largest star empire around. Then you can try to liberate Rasalhague from the Dracs maybe lure a few Free Worlds.

Or Kerensky could issue a call for universal peace and everything, rally some support and found a new State bigger than the Hegemony.
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Takiro

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Re: A Star League-era What if
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2017, 04:21:07 PM »

True Ice, a Terran-Lyran-Rim nation could be the core of a new Star Alliance. I'd split the Commonwealth up into its three component states (Donegal, Tamar, Skye), the Rim Worlds in two (Apollo on top and the other arm), and the Hegemony. Heck you could add Bolan and Rasalhague after the 1st Succession War. Of course you'd face some defections from the SLDF.

On the Outworlds Wastes, the door would go both ways though in my opinion. Yes a Star League in Exile located closer to the InnerSphere does present a problem for those who come and find that where they are going isn't exactly a paradise along with the fact that their known profession (soldering) ain't necessarily their going to be their profession there. You could argue that mercs leaving the area would be balanced by refugees fleeing the Succession Wars too. Be interesting if they cut a deal. Send some of your profits home for development along with any new settlers fleeing the war zone.
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MAD-4A

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Re: A Star League-era What if
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2017, 06:32:51 PM »

You could argue that mercs leaving the area would be balanced by refugees fleeing the Succession Wars too. Be interesting if they cut a deal. Send some of your profits home for development along with any new settlers fleeing the war zone.
Not really, it ain't like refugees from the Ukraine walking to Poland, they won't have a Jumpship sitting in their garage to run off in. Look at how difficult it was for Jews to flee Germany to the US (and how few succeeded) and that was just across a little water with air to breath. There may be some who can afford, and manage to acquire, transport, but not many. Most of those with the means to go would be in positions that they don't (or at-least currently think they do) need to go.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2017, 06:34:26 PM by MAD-4A »
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Takiro

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Re: A Star League-era What if
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2017, 06:37:56 PM »

Good point on the jumpships. Kerensky and his son seemed to have a tight reign on their navy so to speak. If that continues forward they could get rid of troublesome elements or maroon them. Likewise said transport to the InnerSphere to serve as mercs could come with valuable control of transports from Kerensky's stronghold.
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MAD-4A

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Re: A Star League-era What if
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2017, 10:03:36 AM »

Good point on the jumpships. Kerensky and his son seemed to have a tight reign on their navy so to speak.
Not really, most units (especially Division level and above) had their own assigned Naval support. As I recall, when news of the coup first reached the SLDF, one Division took off on it's own, unsupported, and got itself whipped-out completely. Also, several units did go Merc/rouge the 12-Star-Guard, NWH and the EL were all SLDF Divisions originally. There's also the issue of the House Navies, if a House managed to bribe away a unit without JS capability they certainly wouldn't leave them stranded, they would send transport & escorts of their own to bring them in (and all the better since that unit would be beholden to them for future transport, reducing their opportunity to take other offers).
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Ice Hellion

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Re: A Star League-era What if
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2017, 03:29:24 PM »

Good point on the jumpships. Kerensky and his son seemed to have a tight reign on their navy so to speak.
Not really, most units (especially Division level and above) had their own assigned Naval support. As I recall, when news of the coup first reached the SLDF, one Division took off on it's own, unsupported, and got itself whipped-out completely.

Takiro was focusing on the post-Exodus timeframe.

And the question is whether or not, the Star League should exile itself or not? and if it should go in one direction or in another.
Perhaps we could list every alternative universe we know with their answers to these 2 questions? This would be a good start to see if there is something still missing.
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5
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