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Author Topic: Banshees and Fasanomics  (Read 1429 times)

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Ice Hellion

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Banshees and Fasanomics
« on: March 22, 2013, 01:45:46 PM »
I was reading TRO 3039 and I wondered how come so many States had Banshees to toy.
Do we know how many were produced and how they were split in the Inner Sphere and in the Periphery?
« Last Edit: March 24, 2013, 03:01:06 AM by Ice Hellion »
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

JPArbiter

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Re: Banshees
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2013, 02:44:41 PM »
being the second or third Mech produced by the Terran Hegemony, (read EVER) I got a feeling the Banshee numbered in the tens of thousands by the end of Operation Liberation and was distributed to the point of stupidity.  add to that the DefHes never stopped producing the damned things, even when Blake Controlled it, and I call shennanigans on the Wasp and Stinger being "the most prolific mech ever"
« Last Edit: March 22, 2013, 02:46:02 PM by JPArbiter »
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JPArbiter

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Re: Banshees
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2013, 02:50:36 PM »
Quote from XTRO Primitives Volume II
Quote

Three decades after its introduction, Hegemony Weapons
Research debuted the BNC-3E, an upgrade that significantly
increased the Banshee’s top speed, though at a cost of most of its
close-range firepower.

Quote
The HAF immediately accepted this model, which soon
became the standard with over 5,000 units produced over a ten year
span (not counting the countless more converted from -1E
models).

So that means the banshee was produced for 40-50 years, only 10 of which was the more known 3E model.  the infamous 5,000 units is a soft retcon at worst.
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Banshees and Fasaconomics
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2013, 12:14:22 PM »
I just changed the title after JPArbiter's answer I looked a bit more at the "economics" behind the Banshees and found some rather strange things.

I looked at the numbers of regiments in 3025 in the LCAF, the DCMS, the AFFS, the CCAF, the FWLM, the TDF, the MAF, the AMC and the ComGuards, numbers provided in the House Books, the Periphery sourcebook and the ComStar sourcebook.

Then I converted these regiments into a number of 'Mechs and used the 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables provided by Xotl on Battletech.com (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,1219.0.html) to estimate the number of Assault 'Mechs and then of Banshees.

As we know from TRO 3025 that roughly a third of the 5000 Banshees produced are still in the Inner Sphere, I made the reverse calculations and found a number of BattleMech regiments for the rest of the Inner Sphere, a number that is way too high (and I found the number of Lyran Banshees, way too low for a nation that is supposed to have several hundreds of them).

What do you think?
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

JPArbiter

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Re: Banshees and Fasaconomics
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2013, 07:09:04 PM »
does that also take into account any mechs that were deposited into strategic reserve depots?

this is the massive failing of trying to get battletech to stick to it's numbers that are pulled, fundamentally out of their ass.  it is hard to account for all sorts of variables including strategic reserves, battlefield loses, privately owned machines, etc etc etc
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Re: Banshees and Fasaconomics
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2013, 08:07:35 PM »
What a lot of people tend to forget is that BT was put together pre-high numbers interent, with authors spread to hell and back (see the Objective Raids discussion on CBT for a great example).  This means big holes, or it could just be in universe exaggeration.  For a real life example I point you to Herodutus or Ramses. 
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JPArbiter

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Re: Banshees and Fasaconomics
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2013, 08:24:11 PM »
also the number does not take into count the fact that Defiance resumed Banshee Production at some point in the succession wars (assuming you do not stick to to early ideas of Hesperus being a stockpile rather then a functioning family.
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Re: Banshees and Fasaconomics
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2013, 11:16:40 PM »
This topic is not Catgirl friendly.
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Re: Banshees and Fasanomics
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2013, 03:42:01 AM »
I listened to you and introduced Banshees in reserve units (reserve meaning that they are stored somewhere).

Since this is not a popular design, every Inner Sphere State puts 20% of its number of active units in reserve except for ComStar (no need to have a really high number of active units) or the LCAF (as they are supposed to have a huge industrial basis and a rather low number of units) who both have twice their number of active units in reserve.
The Periphery and the remaining units only have 10% of their active Banshees in reserve.

And I didn't find any reference about Banshee being produced in 3025 (Objective Raids is set in 3054).

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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Knightmare

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Re: Banshees and Fasanomics
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2013, 09:58:31 AM »
Your totals do not include things like mercenary units—of which only a fraction are named in the books—planetary militias (12 ’Mechs x X IS planets, etc.) and as Black mentioned, things like privately owned machines.

I'm not defending the numbers, I'm just pointing out the futility of trying to narrow the scope. I know players love the economics of production in BattleTech—heck, I'm a factory-loving freak—but I'll be the first one to just "make the numbers work" if it means a better story. That's the real genius of BattleTech IMO, they give ya just enough hard evidence to drive you nuts. 
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Banshees and Fasanomics
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2013, 01:54:13 PM »
Quote from: Knightmare on March 24, 2013, 09:58:31 AM
Your totals do not include things like mercenary units—of which only a fraction are named in the books—planetary militias (12 ’Mechs x X IS planets, etc.) and as Black mentioned, things like privately owned machines.

They are in the other part.

Quote from: Knightmare on March 24, 2013, 09:58:31 AM
I'm not defending the numbers, I'm just pointing out the futility of trying to narrow the scope. I know players love the economics of production in BattleTech—heck, I'm a factory-loving freak—but I'll be the first one to just "make the numbers work" if it means a better story. That's the real genius of BattleTech IMO, they give ya just enough hard evidence to drive you nuts. 

I just wanted to know if a certain small power had enough Banshees to "justify" working on a variant of it (after all, it is 3025).
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Dread Moores

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Re: Banshees and Fasanomics
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2013, 05:06:57 PM »
Quote from: Ice Hellion on March 24, 2013, 01:54:13 PM
I just wanted to know if a certain small power had enough Banshees to "justify" working on a variant of it (after all, it is 3025).

Does it fit the tale you're trying to tell? Then yes.
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skiltao

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Re: Banshees and Fasanomics
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2013, 05:38:22 PM »
Ice Hellion, I could be misremembering, but I *think* Xotl has said that he skews his tables a little for the sake of variety.

EDIT:
Though it's also worth noting that the Lyrans had the advantage of Hesperus-trained technicians, Star League-era blueprints, and assistance from NAIS. A faction with better technology may not need to pull a full 100 BNCs out of their army.
/EDIT

Quote from: Blacknova on March 23, 2013, 08:07:35 PM
What a lot of people tend to forget is that BT was put together pre-high numbers interent, with authors spread to hell and back (see the Objective Raids discussion on CBT for a great example). 

I'm not sure what you mean by "high numbers" intent?
« Last Edit: March 24, 2013, 05:48:50 PM by skiltao »
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Blacknova

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Re: Banshees and Fasanomics
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2013, 06:33:03 PM »
Lots of folk connected.
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Re: Banshees and Fasaconomics
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2013, 12:15:34 AM »
Quote from: Blacknova on March 23, 2013, 11:16:40 PM
This topic is not Catgirl friendly.

hey the cat girls were asking for it.
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