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Author Topic: BT WarShips - A Historical Thought  (Read 3778 times)

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Hairbear541

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Re: BT WarShips - A Historical Thought
« Reply #45 on: August 17, 2014, 11:02:52 PM »
I don't know if you guys have read any of david webers' honor harrington novels , but his forum board  has discussed this same subject many times . both bt  and hhu use 18th century sail model for space combat . that is why is the hhu ship classification/rating is determined by tonnage ... ie  ist rate sd/superdreadnought  , 2nd rate dn/dreadnought , 3rd rate ca/heavy cruiser , 4th rate cl/light cruiser , 5th rate dd/destroyer and no vessels in the frigate or corvette  class ranges as being to small to survive combat in which thermonuclear bomb pump x-ray lasers are the primary weapon , with stand off ranges of up to 20 light minutes . it is a very interesting universe of which I have read many alusions to in quite a few posts here on the OBT . in both bt and hhu there are chase mounts and broadsides mounts for your big guns or missles , and rolling ship from side to side is common practice in both universes written material and gaming material . the only thing bt  doesn't have that hhu has is the impenetrable grav bands above and below a warship which protects it during a roll to present the undamaged  side to combat . the hhu gaming material is put out by final sword productions in pelican rapids minesota . some people think their attack vector gaming engine is to hard to use , but i've used it with bs and got very good results .
sd/6,000,000-8,500,000tn             dn/4,000,000-6,000,000tn            ca/160,000-350,000tn            cl/90,000-150,000tn             dd/65,000-80,000tn
there once was a frigate class , but it got retconned several years back , by mr. weber himself .
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Blacknova

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Re: BT WarShips - A Historical Thought
« Reply #46 on: August 17, 2014, 11:55:00 PM »
I enjoyed the Honour Harrington Novels, once my wife was finished with them.
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drakensis

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Re: BT WarShips - A Historical Thought
« Reply #47 on: August 18, 2014, 01:29:04 AM »
You're missing out battleships (obsolete line of battle... actually WALL of battle... ships now too small for serious fleet actions) and battlecruisers (the largest units below the wall of battle, important for raiding, counter-raiding and screening fleet formations). Also Light attack craft, sublight ships used for system-defense or later deployed by carriers. Dropships, anyone?

Frigates haven't been retconed as much as the in-story scale has gotten to the point frigates aren't large enough to be useful any more. (For that matter, as of the latest stories destroyers are creeping up into light cruiser sizes and battlecruisers are coming in at sizes previously indicating battleships, as a result of technology letting ships that size accelerate more effectively). Note: drives in the honorverse are much more effective than BT thrusters, accelerating at rates around 100x greater.

The setting could be somewhat reminiscent - the sprawling and over-bureaucratized Solarian League which is gradually absorbing and enabling the exploitation by Transtellar Corporations of less advanced states around its frontiers. Far outside the borders of the League, the driving conflict between 'neo-barbarian' states has pushed their military technology well ahead of the League's navy.
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Hairbear541

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Re: BT WarShips - A Historical Thought
« Reply #48 on: August 18, 2014, 07:25:19 AM »
morning  drak , your quite right I did miss 2 classes . bb/2,000,000-4,000,000tn  ,  bc/500,000-1,200,000tn . and again you are right about the frigate not being retconned by mr weber but to many fans it felt that way. ms harrington's 1st command was a system defense lac , while her 1st hyper command was the ff-hawkwing that mr weber now says wouldn't survive as a modern combatant . weight creep has been with all navies throughout history . as an old blue water sailor I
've watched frigate wts move into the wt range of destroyers , and conversely destroyer wts have crept into the  wt range normally associated with light cruisers .
there are quite a few anologies between the solarian league and the star league . both blotted and so damned cock sure their right about everything . swelled heads ego wise and look down there noses at anything to far out in the boonies (the neo-barbs from the back of beyond) .
nova you need to check out the new honorverse companion , its got what you call fluff galore plus backstories
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drakensis

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Re: BT WarShips - A Historical Thought
« Reply #49 on: August 18, 2014, 03:37:54 PM »
The Hawkwing was a destroyer not a frigate. The RMN had had frigates in services - a small number of such vessels served as the foundation of the service in fact - but by 1901 P.D. they'd all been retired.
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Gabriel

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Re: BT WarShips - A Historical Thought
« Reply #50 on: August 18, 2014, 11:37:35 PM »
Yeah I read that great series. I even brought up L.A.C.s before in this forum.
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Will of Iron,Nerves of Steel,Heart of Gold,Balls of Brass... No wonder I set off metal detectors.Death or Compliance now that's not to much to ask for,is it?

Hairbear541

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Re: BT WarShips - A Historical Thought
« Reply #51 on: August 19, 2014, 08:10:29 AM »
drak if you have the 1st published short story off hh's 1st hyper command , hawkwing was listed as a frigate , but in later reprints class size and classification was changed by mr weber to fit into his more structured universe outline . mr weber did an interview at one of the conventions he was at to explain why he made quite afew changes in the earlier hh short stories after baen  convinced him to make hh a serial .
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Hairbear541

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Re: BT WarShips - A Historical Thought
« Reply #52 on: August 19, 2014, 09:54:53 AM »
Gabriel , glad someone else likes the hh universe besides me . there are quite a few similarities between bt's star league and hh's solarian league , and yes I saw your post about possible lac use in bt . liked the idea , but remember  the hhu's lacs are the equivalent offww2 pt-boats or german e-boats so wt range for a bt  lac would have to be somewhere between the tigress gb and fury ds . but I think the idea is doable . just give between 15 to 30 days of food , fuel , a honking huge engine for the old zoom and schoot type attack profile , a rotary missle launcher for a 5 to 10 round volley and just enough close in defenses to keep those annoying aslt droppers and buzzing asf off your minus x after making your attk run . I myself was thinking a wt range between 450tn to about 900tn  with a crew of 6-8 . let me have your feedback on this . thanks 
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Gabriel

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Re: BT WarShips - A Historical Thought
« Reply #53 on: August 19, 2014, 11:51:33 AM »
I agree  What is funny I was looking at the Lyonesse and it's sister ship they might just do the trick. They are related designs to the Tigress gunship and I was thinking of a reworking of the weapon system. ( I suggested that in another thread) would give up weight for fuel and food.
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Fear is our most powerful weapon and a Heavy Regiment of Von Rohrs Battlemech's is a very close second.-attributed to Kozo Von Rohrs
Will of Iron,Nerves of Steel,Heart of Gold,Balls of Brass... No wonder I set off metal detectors.Death or Compliance now that's not to much to ask for,is it?

Hairbear541

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Re: BT WarShips - A Historical Thought
« Reply #54 on: August 19, 2014, 12:21:34 PM »
I've been trying to find info on the lyonesse . didn't ma do a super tigress , would be a little small , but a good starting point . you know it feels good when someone doesn't think your completely off your rocker by having a decent idea or imagination .
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Gabriel

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Re: BT WarShips - A Historical Thought
« Reply #55 on: August 19, 2014, 01:37:05 PM »
No you are but so am I so we are doing better than some
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Fear is our most powerful weapon and a Heavy Regiment of Von Rohrs Battlemech's is a very close second.-attributed to Kozo Von Rohrs
Will of Iron,Nerves of Steel,Heart of Gold,Balls of Brass... No wonder I set off metal detectors.Death or Compliance now that's not to much to ask for,is it?

drakensis

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Re: BT WarShips - A Historical Thought
« Reply #56 on: August 20, 2014, 04:42:20 AM »
Quote from: Hairbear541 on August 19, 2014, 08:10:29 AM
drak if you have the 1st published short story off hh's 1st hyper command , hawkwing was listed as a frigate , but in later reprints class size and classification was changed by mr weber to fit into his more structured universe outline . mr weber did an interview at one of the conventions he was at to explain why he made quite afew changes in the earlier hh short stories after baen  convinced him to make hh a serial .
I'm not familiar with that one. I took my information from my copy of the On Basilisk Station, but the original print run may differ.
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Hairbear541

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Re: BT WarShips - A Historical Thought
« Reply #57 on: August 20, 2014, 08:48:26 AM »
morning drak , I picked that up from mr webers forum site that had a link to the interview he did at one of the honorcons . I don't know if the link is still there or not . i still have the anthology where he was just 1 of about 10 or 15 other sf authors presenting there stories . it was this story that made me start looking for his works in the local book stores . when i later read on basilisk station certain things had been changed from the original short story to make it a novel . mr weber said in the interview that the original short story was just going to be a one of kind piece , but the chief editor at baen convinced him to serial the story . mr weber had to make a whole new universe to house honor and the star kingdom of manticore .
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