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Author Topic: Clan forces  (Read 19242 times)

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Ice Hellion

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Clan forces
« on: June 19, 2021, 03:58:24 PM »
This thread comes from two things:
1. an interrogation I made myself about how strong where the Clans and could Operation Revival reach its target?
2. Finding in Clans: Warriors of Kerensky some hard data (that is for Fasanomics) about the population of the Clans.
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Ice Hellion

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Re: Clan forces
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2021, 03:58:54 PM »
So here is the population around 3050 and the split among the different Castes

Code: [Select]
Percentage Numbers
Warrior 0.01 % 110,500
Scientist 6.41 % 73,820,500
Merchant 18.58 % 213,976,500
Technician 7.87 % 90,635,000
Laborer 67.12 % 772,679,000
Dark Caste Unknown Unknown

Total 1,151,221,500
« Last Edit: June 19, 2021, 03:59:21 PM by Ice Hellion »
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Ice Hellion

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Re: Clan forces
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2021, 04:00:10 PM »
I then did a research in Operation Revival Trials and on Sarna to have a look at the different Clans and their Toumans.

Code: [Select]
Revival Trials Bid Touman (Sarna) Notes
Khan Keshiks Number of Galaxies Number available in 3050 WarShips
Clan Blood Spirit 9 Galaxies 1 Cluster 13 11 6 Iota and Zeta Galaxies created in 3066
Clan Burrock 9 Galaxies 9 7 More than 9 Galaxies
Clan Cloud Cobra 7 Galaxies 2 7 6 15 Omicron Galaxy formed in 3068
Clan Coyote 9 Galaxies 3 Clusters 13 13 13 Understrength units (see Khan Sullivan Koga’s reforms)
Clan Diamond Shark 7 Galaxies 2 Clusters 8 8 18 Keshiks in Alpha and Beta Galaxies/Fewer Galaxies with fewer Clusters but with more Trinaries
Clan Fire Mandrill 7 Kindraas 7 7 7 Kindraas merging after => numbers to be checked
Clan Ghost Bear 12 Galaxies 2 Reinforced Trinaries 15 12 17 Keshiks in Alpha Galaxy/3 Galaxies formed after 3052
Clan Goliath Scorpion 7 Galaxies 10 7 17 Based in Imperio del Escorpión/No Keshik ?/3 Galaxies formed later
Clan Hell's Horses 9 Galaxies 2 Clusters 11 9 10 Omega Galaxy formed in 3070, doubts about Kappa Galaxy (discarded to be coherent with Revival Trials)
Clan Ice Hellion 7 Galaxies 2 Clusters 6 6 13 Keshiks in Alpha and Beta Galaxies/1 Galaxy more in the Revival Trials ?
Clan Jade Falcon 10 Galaxies 1 Cluster 14 10 23
Clan Nova Cat 9 Galaxies 2 Trinaries 15 12 22 Keshiks in Alpha and Beta Galaxies/3 Galaxies formed later
Clan Smoke Jaguar 11 Galaxies 13 12 32 Tau Galaxy formed in 3056/Total strength above 11 Galaxies
Clan Snow Raven Too weak 1 Trinary 7 6 39 Zeta Galaxy formed in 3066
Clan Star Adder Entire Touman 2 Clusters 13 10 28 1 disbanded before and reformed after/2 Galaxies formed later
Clan Steel Viper 9 Galaxies 1 Trinary 12 10 14 Omicron Galaxy formed in 3068 and Omega Galaxy in 3052
Clan Wolf Already qualified 2 Trinaries 16 11 21 Keshiks in Alpha and Beta Galaxies/5 Galaxies formed after 3050
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Ice Hellion

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Re: Clan forces
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2021, 04:05:16 PM »
I took an average of 300 Warriors in a Galaxy and 10 Warriors in a WarShip (if you disagree, it is easy to change).


Code: [Select]
Number of Galaxies Number of WarShips Number of Warriors
Clan Blood Spirit 11.25 6 3,435
Clan Burrock 9 7 2,770
Clan Cloud Cobra 6.5 15 2,100
Clan Coyote 13.75 13 4,255
Clan Diamond Shark 8 18 2,580
Clan Fire Mandrill 7 7 2,170
Clan Ghost Bear 12 17 3,770
Clan Goliath Scorpion 7 17 2,270
Clan Hell's Horses 9.5 10 2,950
Clan Ice Hellion 6 13 1,930
Clan Jade Falcon 10.25 23 3,305
Clan Nova Cat 12 22 3,820
Clan Smoke Jaguar 12 32 3,920
Clan Snow Raven 6.25 39 2,265
Clan Star Adder 10.5 28 3,430
Clan Steel Viper 10.25 14 3,215
Clan Wolf 11 21 3,510
Total 162.25 302 51,695
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Ice Hellion

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Re: Clan forces
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2021, 04:07:16 PM »
Which would leave us with 63,427 Warriors available in training units, 3rd line ones, (real) Solhama ones, paramilitary forces... or brought back into Galaxies (with my 300 Warriors in one in average) and rounded a little down 200 Galaxies.
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Ice Hellion

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Re: Clan forces
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2021, 04:08:22 PM »
This leaves me quite puzzled.


What are your thoughts on the method, the results and their implications?
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Takiro

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Re: Clan forces
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2021, 07:29:23 PM »
Have you factored in intelligence or information lag? The state of technology in the InnerSphere circa 3025 is very different than 3050. The Great Houses make a fantastic turn around in just 25 years that the Clans may not have even suspected.

So if you were the Clans and you expected to fight the armies of the 3rd Succession War wouldn't you be overconfident?
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Clan forces
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2021, 02:05:51 PM »
Quote from: Takiro on June 19, 2021, 07:29:23 PM
Have you factored in intelligence or information lag? The state of technology in the InnerSphere circa 3025 is very different than 3050. The Great Houses make a fantastic turn around in just 25 years that the Clans may not have even suspected.

So if you were the Clans and you expected to fight the armies of the 3rd Succession War wouldn't you be overconfident?

Except Clan Star Adder that said "let's go for them with all our might".

More seriously, the questions here is how much is a Clan 'Mech worth in terms of 3025 'Mechs and then 3050?
Even the Star League had troubles conquering the Periphery and they were much more numerus.
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Ice Hellion

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Re: Clan forces
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2021, 02:08:22 PM »
And I did a second time the final calculations since I had forgotten to add the Aerospace Fighters among the WarShips. My average is a Trinary of Fighters aboard each ship, which leaves 54,367 Warriors for other things and units.
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Takiro

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Re: Clan forces
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2021, 02:11:11 PM »
I remember we did combat scenario many years ago with an older Battletech player who had 18 3025 Mech and we (including Bradshaw) had just 3 Clan Mechs. We wrecked him bad and my Mech was the only one really badly damaged.
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Re: Clan forces
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2021, 09:46:34 AM »
The Clans were dumb for a purpose I'm guessing. Because I don't care how long they've been out there their zeal for all things military shouldn't have made them stupid enough to attack the way they did. I could understand the average clan warrior but to become an officer takes more than individual skill and the means they had for promotion was so stupid they shouldn't have been able to survive the way that they did. They took Darwinism to the extreme with their survival of the fittest theme. Its why I like Star Adder the best of the Clans.
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Clan forces
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2021, 05:10:11 PM »
Quote from: Bradshaw on June 21, 2021, 09:46:34 AM
The Clans were dumb for a purpose I'm guessing. Because I don't care how long they've been out there their zeal for all things military shouldn't have made them stupid enough to attack the way they did. I could understand the average clan warrior but to become an officer takes more than individual skill and the means they had for promotion was so stupid they shouldn't have been able to survive the way that they did. They took Darwinism to the extreme with their survival of the fittest theme. Its why I like Star Adder the best of the Clans.

I do agree which is why I am trying to find hard data to show they were even more stupid (or had to because of their superiority).
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Takiro

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Re: Clan forces
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2021, 05:07:06 PM »
Define hard data please?

Are you looking for combat losses? Battle examples? Strategic blunders?
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Clan forces
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2021, 02:59:12 PM »
Quote from: Takiro on July 26, 2021, 05:07:06 PM
Define hard data please?

Are you looking for combat losses? Battle examples? Strategic blunders?

Numbers. Raw numbers.
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

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Re: Clan forces
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2021, 03:18:55 PM »
Quote from: Ice Hellion on July 29, 2021, 02:59:12 PM
Quote from: Takiro on July 26, 2021, 05:07:06 PM
Define hard data please?

Are you looking for combat losses? Battle examples? Strategic blunders?

Numbers. Raw numbers.

Battletechs not always great for that....
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