Topic: Clan Ghost Bear Touman: Am I Missing any canon units? (Read 1384 times)

masterarminas · « **on:** October 27, 2013, 12:56:20 AM »

I am putting together a list of all Clan Ghost Bear assets that existed before Operation Revial was launched . . . this is what I've got so far:

Clan Command: The Ourse Keshik (Supernova Trinary)

Alpha Galaxy (The Golden Bears): The Silveroot Keshik (Supernova Trinary)
Beta Galaxy (The Night Howlers): The Shrill Keshik (Supernova Trinary)
Delta Galaxy (The Blitzkrieg): Jorgensson's Keshik (Supernova Trinary)
Rho Galaxy (Bear Essentials): Kabrinski's Keshik (Supernova Trinary)
Omega Galaxy (The Raging Bear): Tseng's Keshik (Supernova Trinary)
Zeta Galaxy (The Claws of the Ghost): The Claw Keshik (Supernova Trinary)

Theta Galaxy
Kappa Galaxy
Xi Galaxy
Omicron Galaxy
Pi Galaxy
Sigma Galaxy
Tau Galaxy

1st Bear Guards (The Rage)
3rd Bear Guards (The ilKhan's Shield)
5th Bear Guards (Arctic Thunder)
7th Bear Guards (Claws of Glory)
304th Assault Cluster (The Howling Bears)
332nd Assault Cluster (The Iowa Blacklancers)
357th Assault Cluster (The Cave Bears)
20th Attack Cluster (Polar Bear)**
14th Battle Cluster (The Maulers)
18th Battle Cluster (Fire with Fire)
48th Battle Cluster (The Chilled Death)**
73rd Battle Cluster (The Lash)
243rd Battle Cluster (Apollo's Chariot)
283rd Battle Cluster (Ursine Inferno)
297th Battle Cluster (The Burnout Brigade)
300th Battle Cluster (Roaring Phoenix)
12th Bear Chevaliers (The Wendigos)
8th Bear Cuirassiers (The Blinding Drive)
10th Bear Cuirassiers (Tundra Roughriders)
1st Bear Regulars
2nd Bear Regulars
3rd Bear Regulars
4th Bear Regulars
5th Bear Regulars
6th Bear Regulars
7th Bear Regulars
1st Claw
2nd Claw
3rd Claw
4th Claw
3rd Striker Cluster (The Ursine Howl)
50th Striker Cluster (The Black Bears)
68th Striker Cluster (The Walking Panzers)
115th Striker Cluster (The Rolling Wave)
139th Striker Cluster (The Sphere Hunters)
140th Striker Cluster (Death from Above)
5th Phalanx
7th Phalanx
10th Phalanx
13th Phalanx
21st Phalanx
9th Provisional Garrison Cluster
10th Provisional Garrison Cluster
11th Provisional Garrison Cluster
12th Provisional Garrison Cluster
14th Provisional Garrison Cluster
17th Provisional Garrison Cluster
18th Provisional Garrison Cluster
23rd Provisional Garrison Cluster
29th Provisional Garrison Cluster
30th Provisional Garrison Cluster
33rd Provisional Garrison Cluster
37th Provisional Garrison Cluster
42nd Provisional Garrison Cluster
54th Provisional Garrison Cluster
55th Provisional Garrison Cluster
56th Provisional Garrison Cluster
63rd Provisional Garrison Cluster
69th Provisional Garrison Cluster

*In canon, Zeta Galaxy did not have a Galaxy Command Supernova Trinary. However, every other NAMED Galaxy did so. So I added a Keshik.

**Yes, I know that the 20th is the 'Polar Bear Attack' unit and carries the nickname of 'The Chilled Death'. But really, it works better this way and allows me to use that nickname for the 48th Battle Cluster, which was unknown.

Totals:

Galaxies: 13 (6 named and 7 second-line/garrison)

Clusters: 59 (4 Bear Guards, 3 Assault, 1 Attack, 8 Battle, 1 Bear Chevaliers, 2 Bear Cuirassiers, 7 Bear Regulars, 4 Claws, 6 Striker, 5 Phalanx, & 18 PGC). Basically 29 front-line Clusters and 30 second-line/garrison (Bear Regulars, Phalanx, PGC).

Okay . . . so did I miss any? And yes, I realize that the 48th Battle was destroyed in canon JUST prior to the Go Vote on Revival and the 300th Battle was formed from the survivors (and new sibkin). Let's assume that the 48th was not disbanded but the 300th was still formed in 3048/3049.

Any that I missed?

MA

Takiro · « **Reply #1 on:** October 27, 2013, 08:42:46 AM »

The 3050 toumans of the Clans are largely a topic of conjecture I'm afraid. Smoke Jaguar being the biggest mess to sort out. Why Coyote voted in favor of the invasion is another mystery I'd love to see addressed. There is this line from the Invading Clans Sourcebook pg 18 that suggests that your in the right neighborhood.

Quote

Clan Ghost Bear made an initial bid of twelve full OmniMech Galaxies with appropriate Elemental and aerospace support.

Now granted its the OmniMech part is an area but that is a near commitment of their full touman to accomplish the task put forward. They would retain one Galaxy in the homeworlds of whose breakdown I'd love to see and was there a truce ever established or a reason given that the Home Clans never challenged for these territories??

masterarminas · « **Reply #2 on:** October 27, 2013, 11:08:50 AM »

Yeah, the Jaguars are a royal mess. Here is what I've been able to glean from canon (and Sarna.net):

Clan Command: The Shroud Keshik

Alpha Galaxy (NOTE: no name given, but we know that the premier Jag formation WOULD be named): Jaguar's Spirit Keshik
Beta Galaxy (The Mistweavers): The Swath Keshik
Delta Galaxy (The Cloud Rangers): The Skyriders Keshik
Epsilon Galaxy (The Teeth of Justice): Dark Prowlers Keshik
Tau Galaxy (The Huntress Galaxy): ??
Omega Galaxy (The Black Cats): ??
?? Galaxy (The Iron Guard): ??
?? Galaxy (The Watchmen): ??

Zeta Galaxy
Kappa Galaxy
Nu Galaxy
Psi Galaxy

1st Jaguar Guards
2nd Jaguar Guards
1106th Aggressor Cluster
3rd Assault Cluster
33rd Assault Cluster
75th Assault Cluster
250th Assault Cluster
362nd Assault Cluster
3rd Attack Cluster
101st Attack Cluster
43rd Battle Cluster
48th Battle Cluster
225th Battle Cluster
267th Battle Cluster
304th Battle Cluster
315th Battle Cluster
Jaguar Grenadiers
3rd Jaguar Cavaliers
9th Jaguar Cavaliers
4th Jaguar Combat Cluster
28th Jaguar Combat Cluster
336th Jaguar Combat Cluster
4th Jaguar Dragoons
5th Jaguar Dragoons
6th Jaguar Dragoons
7th Jaguar Dragoons
214th Jaguar Dragoons
2nd Jaguar Regulars
4th Jaguar Regulars
5th Jaguar Regulars
10th Jaguar Regulars
11th Jaguar Regulars
12th Jaguar Regulars
17th Jaguar Regulars
22nd Jaguar Regulars
32nd Jaguar Regulars
63rd Jaguar Regulars
145th Jaguar Regulars
1st Striker cluster
6th Striker cluster
19th Striker Cluster
25th Striker Cluster
122nd Striker Cluster

22nd Smoke Jaguar Freebirth Cluster
12th Solahma Cluster
44th Solahma Cluster
63rd Solahma Cluster
77th Solahma Cluster

3rd Garrison Cluster
4th Garrison Cluster
5th Garrison Cluster
7th Garrison Cluster
8th Garrison Cluster
10th Garrison Cluster
11th Garrison Cluster
17th Garrison Cluster
19th Garrison Cluster
27th Garrison Cluster
47th Garrison Cluster
51st Garrison Cluster
124th Garrison Cluster
143rd Garrison Cluster
151st Garrison Cluster
168th Garrison Cluster
189th Garrison Cluster

Totals:

Galaxies: 12 (8 named; 4 unnamed)

Clusters: 65 (2 Jaguar Guards, 1 Aggressor, 5 Assault, 2 Attack, 6 Battle, 1 Jaguar Grenadiers, 2 Jaguar Cavaliers, 3 Jaguar Combat, 5 Jaguar Dragoons, 11 Jaguar Regulars, 5 Striker, 1 Freebirth, 4 Solahma, and 17 Garrison)

We seem to be missing a few Galaxies . . . unless the Jaguars used more than five Clusters per Galaxy, which I don't have ANY evidence for. And the hodge-podge of differing Cluster types just boggles the mind. Still, just using references from canon, that gives the Jags more strength than even the Ghost Bears above.

Which is something.

To your second point, I think it was said (in Invading Clans, maybe?) that the ilKhan (Showers) forbade Trials against the holdings of the Invading Clans during Revival. I know I read that somewhere . . . I think. LOL

MA

Takiro · « **Reply #3 on:** October 27, 2013, 02:38:56 PM »

Well the Jaguars did field an impressive touman which I surmise was supported in large part by the limited warfare of Clan society. Only when the Smoke Jags got to the Inner Sphere did they suffer massive material reversals like Luthien and Tukayyid which must have crippled their large army to the point where it could not recover. They did absorb the Mongoose Clan but were not an industrial powerhouse like the Bears or the Wolves.

I've got two different posts from the old CBT forums which did a good job at documenting the Jag touman. Unfortunately I don't have the authors at hand. If somebody knows please post them.

Quote

Clan Smoke Jaguar Touman (canon sources)
Total strength: 12 Galaxies (61 Clusters) (plus 1 Galaxy (3 Clusters) and 7 Clusters that weren't counted)

Command units
Jaguars' Den Keshik
Shroud Keshik

Alpha Galaxy (5 Clusters)
Jaguar Spirit Keshik
Smoke Jaguar Grenadiers
5th Smoke Jaguar Regulars*
6th Smoke Jaguar Dragoons
7th Smoke Jaguar Dragoons (The Leaping Jaguar)
9th Smoke Jaguar Cavaliers

Beta Galaxy (The Mistweavers) (9 Clusters)
Swath Keshik
1st Smoke Jaguar Cavaliers
1st Smoke Jaguar Guards
2nd Smoke Jaguar Guards
3rd Attack Cluster (Hunters All)
4th Combat Cluster
225th Jaguar Battle Cluster
267th Battle Cluster
214th Smoke Jaguar Dragoons
362nd Assault Cluster

Delta Galaxy (Cloud Rangers) (6 Clusters)
Skyriders Keshik
1st Striker Cluster
3rd Assault Cluster
3rd Smoke Jaguar Cavaliers
4th Smoke Jaguar Dragoons
19th Striker Cluster
1106th Aggressor Cluster

Epsilon Galaxy (The Teeth of Justice) (1 Cluster)
Dark Prowlers Keshik
6th Striker Cluster

Pi Galaxy (5 Clusters)
Galaxy Command Trinary
No Clusters listed as part of Pi Galaxy in any canon material

Tau Galaxy (Huntress) (3 Clusters) (not counted)
Galaxy Command Trinary
25th Strike Cluster (Deathstrike)
101st Attack Cluster (Bloodied Claws)
250th Assault Cluster (Mist Pouncers)

Zeta Galaxy (The Iron Guard) (1 Cluster)
Galaxy Command Trinary
33rd Assault Cluster

Omega Galaxy (The Watchmen) (1 Cluster)
Galaxy Command Trinary
48th Battle Cluster

Zeta Galaxy (5 Clusters) [may be another Greek letter, not sure]
Galaxy Comand Trinary
2nd Smoke Jaguar Regulars
5th Garrison Cluster
11th Smoke Jaguar Regulars
47th Garrison Cluster
189th Garrison Cluster

Kappa Galaxy (5 Clusters)
Galaxy Command Trinary
3rd Garrison Cluster
4th Garrison Cluster
17th Garrison Cluster
19th Garrison Cluster
51st Garrison Cluster

Nu Galaxy (5 Clusters)
Galaxy Command Trinary
4th Smoke Jaguar Regulars
12th Smoke Jaguar Regulars
124th Garrison Cluster
143rd Garrison Cluster
168th Garrison Cluster

Psi Galaxy (5 Clusters)
Galaxy Command Trinary
7th Garrison Cluster
8th Garrison Cluster
10th Garrison Cluster
11th Garrison Cluster
17th Smoke Jaguar Regulars

Omega Galaxy (3 Clusters) [may be another Greek letter, not sure]
Galaxy Command Trinary
10th Smoke Jaguar Regulars
27th Garrison Cluster
151st Garrison Cluster

Clusters without Parent Galaxy listed in Canon 15(16) Clusters
5th Smoke Jaguar Dragoons
22nd Jaguar Regulars*
25th Smoke Jaguar Dragoons (destroyed in 2905) (not counted)
28th Jaguar Combat Cluster
31st Jaguar Assault Cluster (?)
32nd Smoke Jaguar Regulars
43rd Jaguar Battle Cluster
44th Jaguar Attack Cluster (?)
63rd Smoke Jaguar Regulars
75th Jaguar Assault Cluster
122nd Striker Cluster (Spotted Cats of Death)
145th Smoke Jaguar Regulars*
181st Battle Cluster
304th Battle Cluster
315th Battle Cluster
336th Combat Cluster

Questionable and probable typos (12 Clusters) (not counted)
4th Jaguar Hussars (probably 4th Jaguar Dragoons)
7th Jaguar Hussars (probably 7th Jaguar Dragoons)
2nd Jaguar Cavaliers not sure if it even IS mentioned.. should be in Lost Destiny.. might have been the 1st Cavs, though)
2nd Jaguar Guards Striker Cluster (uh, funky since this is #2 of the triple-listed 2nd Guards)
2nd Jaguar Guards Battle Cluster (this is #3)
124th Phalanx (probably 124th Garrison)
168th Phalanx (probably 168th Garrison)
3rd PGC (probably 3rd Garrison)
4th PGC (probably 4th Garrison)
5th PGC (probably 5th Garrison)
7th PGC (probably 7th Garrison)
8th PGC (probably 8th Garrison)

Solamha Clusters (5 Clusters) (not counted)
12th Solamha Cluster
22nd Smoke Jaguar Freebirth Cluster
44th Solamha Cluster
63rd Solamha Cluster
77th Solamha Cluster

an asterik (*) denotes a Second-line unit attatched to a Front-line command
a question mark denotes a unit previously listed as a Galaxy, but more than likely really a Cluster.

Sources: The Invading Clans Sourcebook, Field Manual: Crusader Clans, Field Manual: Warden Clans, The Dragon Roars Scenario Book, Twilight of The Clans Scenario Book, Battletroops Rulebook, Explorer Corps Sourcebook, Exodus Road: Book One of the Twilight of The Clans series (Novel), Grave Covenant: Book Two of the Twilight of the Clans series (Novel), Impetus of War (Novel), Battle of Luthien Scenario Book, Objective Raids.

Thanks to Dark_Jaguar for pointing out my errors concerning the Second Smoke Jaguar Cavaliers, and the alleged Fourth and Seventh Smoke Jaguar Hussars, which were, in fact typos for the Fourth and Seventh Smoke Jaguar Dragoons. Still listing them, just not counting them

Special thanks to Warrior_Priest for the info on the Jags from Battle of Luthien.
Special thanks to Wick (from the S7 League) for the info from Objective Raids

Here is the second again I apologize for not knowing the author.

Quote

Total: 46 worlds
Homeworld Control (as of 3048-3059):

Pentagon (2 Worlds)
Eden: 25% (Original landhold from Operation Klondike)
Circe: 25% (Original landhold of Clan Mongoose, from Operation Klondike)

Kerensky Cluster (7( worlds)
Atreus: 70% (possible former Homeworld of Clan Mongoose)
Homer (coolest name for a planet ): 10%
Huntress: 100% (small section, less than 1% ceded to Clan Jade Falcon in 3048)
Kirin: 50%
Londerholm: 100%; 85% by 3059, lost land to Clan Ice Hellion
Strana Mechty: 5.882%
Tranquil: 100%
Vinton: 100%

Exodus Road (5 systems/facilities)
Ghent
Nouveaux Paris
Pivot Prime
Suda Bay
Transfer Facility #4

Smoke Jaguar Liberation Zone (31 worlds)
Alberio: 100%
Almunge: 100%
Asgard: 100%
Avon: 50%
Bangor: 100%
Byesville: 100%
Caripare: 50%
Coudoux: 100%
Garstedt: 100%
Hanover: 100%
Hyner: 100%
Idlewind: 100%
Jeronimo: 100%
Kabah: 100%
Kiamba: 100%
Labrea: 100%
Luzerne: 100%
Marshdale: 100%
Nykvarn: 100%
Outer Volta: 100%
Port Arthur: 100%
Richmond: 100%
Rockland: 100%
Savinsville: 100%
Schwartz: 100%
Schuyler: 100%
Stapelfield: 100%
Tarazed: 100%
Turtle Bay: 100%
Virentofta: 100%
Yamarovka: 100%

Now this Touman I got from long, hard research and a bit of fill-in the blanks. It may not be 100% accurate, but you'd get the idea.

Touman (in Galaxies): 12 Galaxies (57 Clusters)

Front-line: 5 Galaxies, 2 half/half Front/Second-line Galaxies (34 Clusters)
Alpha Galaxy: 6 Clusters
Beta Galaxy: 6 Clusters
Delta Galaxy: 6 Clusters
Epsilon Galaxy: 5 Clusters
Pi Galaxy: 5 Clusters
Zeta Galaxy: 3 Clusters
Omega Galaxy: 3 Clusters
Tau Galaxy (created & destroyed in 3058): 3 Clusters

Second-line Galaxies: 5 Galaxies (23 Clusters)
Zeta Galaxy (somehow there were two, or the former Front-line one on Huntress is another Galaxy): 5 Clusters
Kappa Galaxy: 5 Clusters
Nu Galaxy: 5 Clusters
Phi Galaxy: 5 Clusters
Omega Galaxy (ditto Zeta): 3 Clusters

There might be some missing Galaxies out there since only two Galaxies from the Homeworlds were mentioned, and those were the Iron Guard (Zeta) and Watchmen (Omega) Galaxies. Also, Pi Galaxy is mentioned in FM: Crusader Clans in the Star Adder section for Mu Galaxy, I believe. Since it squared off with the Adder's Beta Galaxy on Atreus, and since there are a few mentioned Front-line Clusters (304th Battle, 25th Jaguar Dragoons, 1st Jaguar Cavaliers, etc) I'm assuming they were part of Pi Galaxy. As it is, were all those Galaxies to survive to full strength, plus the addition of Tau Galaxy, the Smoke Jaguars would have had a Touman equivalent to the Ghost Bears, only would have been far superior since the Smoke Jaguars usually used better 'Mechs, tactics and warriors than the Ghost Bears. Though, as I said, there might have been more units, so it is quite likely that the Jaguars were even larger before Operation Revival and thata large portion of Clan Smoke Jaguar survived the lynching the Inner Sphere performed to steal the sweet, sweet paint job.

I posted a general unit composition, favored units and tactics on the Smoke Jaguar Tactics/Clan Tactics thread. Just look for it and you'll find a lot more info on that.

In my campaigns nothing canon mind you I have called Smoke Jaguar Alpha Galaxy, the Shadow Walkers.

Lysenko · « **Reply #4 on:** December 06, 2013, 12:35:41 PM »

You're missing the 77th Battle Cluster, originally in Alpha and moved to Omega in 3085. Oh, wait, that's my non-canon unit.

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Author Topic: Clan Ghost Bear Touman: Am I Missing any canon units? (Read 1384 times)

masterarminas

Clan Ghost Bear Touman: Am I Missing any canon units?

Takiro

Re: Clan Ghost Bear Touman: Am I Missing any canon units?

masterarminas

Re: Clan Ghost Bear Touman: Am I Missing any canon units?

Takiro

Re: Clan Ghost Bear Touman: Am I Missing any canon units?

Lysenko

Re: Clan Ghost Bear Touman: Am I Missing any canon units?