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Author Topic: Clans worlds and number of inhabitants  (Read 16312 times)

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Ice Hellion

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Clans worlds and number of inhabitants
« on: November 23, 2018, 02:12:43 PM »

While thinking about what a realistic organisation for the Clans could be (as I said in another topic, I had the idea to look at it), I decided to first focus on the overall Clan population (I know Fasanomics and reality).

I didn't find much data around 3050 but more around 3062.

Code: [Select]
Name Population
Albion 7 300 000
Arcadia 54 000 000
Atreus 8 100 000
Babylon 51 000 000
Barcella 37 000 000
Bearclaw 41 000 000
Brim 6 500 000
Circe 37 000 000
Colleen II -
Colleen IV -
Dagda 440 000
Delios 1 700 000
Eden 61 000 000
Foster 11 700 000
Gatekeeper 4 300 000
Glory 6 200 000
Grant's Station 7 100 000
Hector 44 000 000
Hellgate 250 000
Hoard 6 600 000
Homer 36 000 000
Huntress -
Ironhold -
Kirin 37 000 000
Londerholm -
Lum 32 000 000
Marshall 17 600 000
New Kent 27 000 000
Niles -
Paxon -
Priori -
Roche 31 000 000
Shadow 42 000 000
Sheridan -
Strana Mechty 136 000 000
Strato Domingo -
Tamaron 37 000 000
Alexandrea 185 000
Stacha 493 000
Tanis 642 000
Tathis -
Tiber -
Tokasha 14 600 000
Tranquil -
Vinton -
York 56 000 000

A few are missing and Dagda isn't in the right time period.

I would welcome any addition/suggestion you could make.
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Takiro

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Re: Clans worlds and number of inhabitants
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2018, 03:53:20 PM »

I haven't reversed the population growth of the Clan Homeworlds yet for 3052 but it is possible I am sure. Just have to take their average rate of growth and rewind it ten years or so. And don't forget migration to the InnerSphere (see Clan Ghost Bear). Its on my to do list. ;)

Also don't forget Deep Periphery Base Worlds on the Exodus Road which supply the Clan Occupation Zones.
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Clans worlds and number of inhabitants
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2018, 11:41:01 PM »

I haven't reversed the population growth of the Clan Homeworlds yet for 3052 but it is possible I am sure. Just have to take their average rate of growth and rewind it ten years or so. And don't forget migration to the InnerSphere (see Clan Ghost Bear). Its on my to do list. ;)

Also don't forget Deep Periphery Base Worlds on the Exodus Road which supply the Clan Occupation Zones.

I hadn't forgotten about the reverse average growth but I was looking for other things.
Thanks for the tips about migration and I will take
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Ice Hellion

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Re: Clans worlds and number of inhabitants
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2018, 01:11:23 PM »

I cross-checked my numbers and now the only problem I have for 3062 is Kirin.
Sarna gives me a population of 37,000,000 inhabitants while the sourcebook Clans: Warriors of Kerensky gives me 8,800,000 (and both at the same period give or take 2 years).

Takiro, I checked and the Deep Periphery worlds are mostly small holdings or outposts. The only ones worth of anything are already in my list.

Regarding Clan Ghost Bear, I made an estimate with 2 Leviathians doing only that (500,000 people per trip) and 6 months for one trip, this would make 1,000,000 people relocated per year, which would make a population under 30,000,000 inhabitants in 3060 (since Clans: Warriors of Kerensky gives me 24,294,000 in Clan space), which is obviously too low since the next one (Clan Steel Viper) is a little over 57,000,000 inhabitants.

Should I increase the size of the fleet being used? If I look at Field Manual Warden Clans, they mention 5 Transport Ships in Clan Ghost Bear Fleet: 2 Leviathans, 2 Carracks and 1 Volga.
Converting their cargo space in people being transported on the basis of the ratios for the Leviathan, gives me 760,000 inhabitants per trip and 7,600,000 inhabitants relocated between 3055 and 3060, with a total population of circa 32,000,000 inhabitants.

Still not enough.
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Takiro

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Re: Clans worlds and number of inhabitants
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2018, 04:03:01 PM »

I'll have to source Kirin. Warriors of Kerensky (3061?) followed by FM Update (3067) I believe has population numbers but gotta check that.

What number of Clan denizens are in the Deep Periphery for operations? I doubt these are permanent settlements rather temporary bases.

The Ghost Bear migration numbers are interesting certainly. The numbers on their worlds like Bearclaw could be very off by 3061. What is the average population for Clan? Say 50 million or so, right? I'd have that as my ceiling for the number which left the Homeworlds for the InnerSphere.

Don't forget regular jumpships and dropships as well, they could ferry a sizable number too. The convoy which the SLDF fought at Traflagar during Operation Serpent may provide some clues.

How denizens many left with Wolf in Exile?
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Clans worlds and number of inhabitants
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2018, 01:20:24 AM »

What number of Clan denizens are in the Deep Periphery for operations? I doubt these are permanent settlements rather temporary bases.

I only found mentions of small outposts.

How denizens many left with Wolf in Exile?

I looked right now at the population of Arc-Royal and between 3055 and 3067, the population only increased by 2 millions, which is not even logical given the potential growth rate (even with 1% per year, the first year gives them more than these 2 millions). Most of the population would be mercenaries that don't settle, which would mean that these 2 millions are what is Clan Wolf-in-Exile.

What is the average population for Clan? Say 50 million or so, right?

I took a look and without Clans Ghost Bear, Smoke Jaguar (death by that time), Nova Cat (in the Inner Sphere) and Wolf-in-Exile, we are at 83 millions.

I'll have to source Kirin. Warriors of Kerensky (3061?) followed by FM Update (3067) I believe has population numbers but gotta check that.

FM Updates says 8,800,000. Perhaps something happened on Kirin that I don't remember.
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Takiro

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Re: Clans worlds and number of inhabitants
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2018, 03:22:06 PM »

The 2 million number from the Wolves in Exile sounds about right. I think they had a Potemkin and McKenna fully loaded with people and facilities. Arc Royal did 'secede' from the Lyrans so perhaps some people left or were moved around in the Defense Concord? Just riffing I have no idea other than bad math.

I'd say 50 or 60 million is the average Clan population in the 3050s as a ballpark figure, could be wrong. Its just a guess.

Other than Kirin being the last stand of the Jaguars I really don't know. Perhaps the Hell's Horses moved them to the InnerSphere?
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Clans worlds and number of inhabitants
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2018, 05:52:41 PM »

I'd say 50 or 60 million is the average Clan population in the 3050s as a ballpark figure, could be wrong. Its just a guess.

I will do the maths and let you know if your guess was right.
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Ice Hellion

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Re: Clans worlds and number of inhabitants
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2018, 04:25:39 PM »

I looked in a lot of sourcebooks for the missing infos.
I found in a Time of War that the Clans only reached  billion inhabitants within a decade of the Invasion. This means that with their average growth of 2.3% (according to The Clans: Warriors of Kerensky sourcebook), they would have in 3050 around 1,255,000,000 inhabitants, with an average of circa 74,000,00 per Clan.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2018, 04:31:43 PM by Ice Hellion »
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Ice Hellion

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Re: Clans worlds and number of inhabitants
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2018, 05:00:29 PM »

So here is my final take on the population of the Clans in 3050 (based on recalculation and some guesses from my part). Let me know what you think of it.

Blood Spirit      59,000,000
Cloud Cobra      51,000,000
Coyote         65,000,000
Diamond Shark   56,000,000
Fire Mandrill      70,000,000
Ghost Bear      85,000,000
Goliath Scorpion   58,000,000
Hell’s Horses      82,000,000
Ice Hellion      79,000,000
Jade Falcon      94,000,000
Snow Raven      80,000,000
Star Adder      85,000,000
Steel Viper      53,000,000
Wolf            87,000,000
Burrock         79,000,000
Nova Cat         85,000,000
Smoke Jaguar      81,000,000
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Takiro

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Re: Clans worlds and number of inhabitants
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2018, 08:59:53 PM »

Bearing in mind I haven't had a chance to check these figures in detail they look pretty good.

Could you break it down by planet for the year 3052 and 3053? That would be most helpful for me.
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Clans worlds and number of inhabitants
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2018, 12:45:30 AM »

Bearing in mind I haven't had a chance to check these figures in detail they look pretty good.

What do you need to do so?


Could you break it down by planet for the year 3052 and 3053? That would be most helpful for me.


I can trigger the numbers (this is when a spreadsheet is your friend). However to try to be as accurate as possible, I would like to have the info on how the different Clans are spread on each world in 3052.
Do you know where I can find such a list? I have the data for 3060 but it is missing some Clans that are no longer there or in Clan space.
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Takiro

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Re: Clans worlds and number of inhabitants
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2018, 06:29:13 AM »

I can trigger the numbers (this is when a spreadsheet is your friend). However to try to be as accurate as possible, I would like to have the info on how the different Clans are spread on each world in 3052.
Do you know where I can find such a list? I have the data for 3060 but it is missing some Clans that are no longer there or in Clan space.

I'll have to look around for that and see what I can find. Wouldn't the numbers be the same if you did it by planet with the populations??
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Clans worlds and number of inhabitants
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2018, 03:51:30 PM »

I'll have to look around for that and see what I can find. Wouldn't the numbers be the same if you did it by planet with the populations??

Probably but I would have to rework them again as the different Clans have different growth rates.
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

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Re: Clans worlds and number of inhabitants
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2018, 03:56:21 PM »

Wouldnt the % of what clan held what % of land on each planet change some over those 10 years. You'll never get an exact number anyway. Shocked by the amount of people Blood Spirit has though wouldn't have expected that must be people rich resource poor.
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