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Author Topic: ComGuard Force Composition  (Read 11897 times)

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Ice Hellion

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Re: ComGuard Force Composition
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2012, 01:37:20 PM »

I don't see a problem with the strange mix of ComGuards forces.
This allows you to really tailor your force to the expected opposition, which against a pure 'Mech force is really devastating.

the Defenders of Andurien's combined-arms loadout (which was never specified) is listed as one of the reasons for their success in Andurien's bid for independence (and lack of it is cited as one of several reasons the Canopians performed so poorly). 

Which is strange since Canopians are said to use PBI and tanks as the anvil for the 'Mech hammer and they are known to have attached conventional units to the 'Mech ones.
This shows that they have some knowledge of it.
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Halvagor

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Re: ComGuard Force Composition
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2012, 01:55:50 PM »

I don't see a problem with the strange mix of ComGuards forces.
This allows you to really tailor your force to the expected opposition, which against a pure 'Mech force is really devastating.

the Defenders of Andurien's combined-arms loadout (which was never specified) is listed as one of the reasons for their success in Andurien's bid for independence (and lack of it is cited as one of several reasons the Canopians performed so poorly). 

Which is strange since Canopians are said to use PBI and tanks as the anvil for the 'Mech hammer and they are known to have attached conventional units to the 'Mech ones.
This shows that they have some knowledge of it.

While all Canopian regular regiments in FASA 1629 do have at least infantry, only 3/8 regular regiments (and 2/8 mercenary battalions) are said to field armor, so perhaps Bush Wars isn't so far out of line.  The standard existence of at least one battalion of armor per 'mech regiment in FASA 1726 is perhaps the result of the Canopian lack of effective combined arms in the Andurien-Canopian invasion of the Confederation.  In 1629 it says MAF support battalions "generally consist of whatever armor (mostly reconditioned tanks) and infantry are at hand" which certainly implies that the armor & infantry attached to 'mech units are poor-performing and are not permanently attached to the 'mech regiment.  While in 1726 only three regiments (the two Highlanders and the 1st Canopian Brigade) lack any armor support, but six others have two battalions instead of one. 
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Dread Moores

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Re: ComGuard Force Composition
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2012, 05:58:49 PM »

That is a great point Halvagor. You do hear about the ComGuards utilizing combined arms in a more extensive way than any other InnerSphere military. However I have never seen anything about mixed Level IIs or Level IIIs.

It's mentioned multiple times throughout FM: ComStar, FM: Updates, and a large number of the JHS Warchest tracks. It also gets some spotlight in a few of the novels dealing with Tukayyid.

On the Blakist side, the Manei Domini have that Choir mix of 2 level IIs as a specifically noted formation (1 Mech, 1 BA).
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 06:00:05 PM by Dread Moores »
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Re: ComGuard Force Composition
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2012, 08:29:28 AM »

The Choir Formation is a nasty "official" mix akin to the Clans' Nova Stars. Gotta love the Wobbies. They steal all the best stuff.
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Takiro

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Re: ComGuard Force Composition
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2012, 09:39:31 AM »

Interesting i have a divisional composition breakdown set but i'd like to see more about mixed level 2s and 3s. Where can i find canon examples and i'd love to here suggesrions.suggestions as well.
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Halvagor

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Re: ComGuard Force Composition
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2012, 12:58:33 PM »

Well, I tend not to acquire scenario packs, but 1714 FM: ComStar does have comments like "Level III units, directly analgous to battalions except for their use of combined arms, are the most common deployments in high-risk areas like the Clan border."  This shows that, at the very least, Level IIIs are composed of mixed groups of Level IIs, though it doesn't prove that the Level IIs themselves are combined-arms. 

For my money, I see plenty of advantages to having at least some Level IIs being of the same general unit type (i.e., all battlemech or all armor); it aids the age-old military dictum of concentration of force.  Technically speaking, a US 4-man fire team is "combined arms", since the team leader usually has an under-barrel 40mm grenade launcher, meaning the rest of the team can use direct-fire from their rifles to keep an enemy pinned in a location where the grenadier can hit them with indirect fire -- which is what is really meant by the term "combined arms" in military circles.  It certainly wouldn't be necessary to have more than two unit types in a given Level II, though I'm sure some people find a unit with two 'mechs, two tanks and two fighters very flexible.
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Ice Hellion

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Re: ComGuard Force Composition
« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2012, 01:39:24 PM »

I was quoting CAT35203 "Every MAF regiment has at least one supporting armor battalion
permanently attached."
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Halvagor

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Re: ComGuard Force Composition
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2012, 03:06:34 PM »

I was quoting CAT35203 "Every MAF regiment has at least one supporting armor battalion
permanently attached."
And that may well be true for 3066, which is the "current date" for that line in CAT35203, but it seems not to have been true for the MAF at earlier time periods, such as those represented by the earlier Periphery books, FASA 1629 (in-universe year 3025) and FASA 1726/FANPRO 10982 (3064), though the latter book makes the same blanket statement but then goes on to contradict it in the regimental profiles -- perhaps it was a new policy in the early 3060s. 
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Takiro

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Re: ComGuard Force Composition
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2012, 03:18:54 PM »

The Choir Formation sounds interesting guys and there is a lot of similarity between Clan style organizations and mixed units that ComStar has deployed. I look a few Clan sourcebooks over for some inspiration when it comes to Level III Battalion organization but right now I'm still focused on Level IIs. Think I'll call them Sections for now since they aren't a Lance or a Star but if anyone has a better suggestion I'll take it.

Halvagor you've once again beaten me to the punch with a very good post. Two books that I have found that detail ComGuard organization very well are Fall of Terra and Twilight of the Clans. Each gives you detailed looks at actual ComStar units and it is pretty interesting.

Exclusive or single unit type Sections (aka Level II) seem to make up the majority of ComGuard military organization. As Halvagor stated these same general unit types (all Mech, all Armor, all Infantry or all Fighter) helps bring a concentration of force to whatever situation you through them into. Out of the four types of units given Fighters seem to be the force which will appear in Single Sections the most (likely do to their very nature as an air unit) followed by Mechs which can be combined with other ground units. Armor and Infantry are a frequent pairing so appear the least (which is still a lot) in these exclusive formations.

Dual or two unit type Sections (aka Level II) make up a healthy portion of the ComGuards. As I see it there are three different ways to organize such a force. The 5 to 1 is possible but I haven't found any examples of such a standing force perhaps because of the diminutive size of the secondary unit involved make the benefits of such a pairing negligible. So you might see a 5 to 1 in a Provisional or Ad Hoc arrangement but the tactical advantages of such are not advantageous enough. Then there is the 4 to 2 which I really like. You can come up with a lot of pairings here for tactical advantage (Mech/Fighter, Mech/Armor, Mech/ Infantry, Armor/Infantry even Fighter/Infantry) that also feed into an InnerSphere like extended Lance (see the Leopard). The 3 to 3 is a little more even but less desirable in my opinion cause of the lack of buddy systems but

Triple/ Quad or three/ four unit type Sections (aka Level II) are possible but no such standing examples can be found in canon texts. Having a super flexible two Mech, two Armor and two Infantry force is pretty cool but how exactly practical would it be? A trifecta is nice but how often are you gonna need it on the battlefield. Even less likely is throwing in the Fighter for a superfecta. You really start cutting into your tactical effectiveness with such flexibility.

As the ComGuard force grows so does their combined arms approach. So Level IIs are only the tip of the ComStar combined arms iceberg.
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Knightmare

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Re: ComGuard Force Composition
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2012, 03:28:28 PM »

I find it funny this topic even gets discussion, let alone two full pages.

Keep the comedy rolling.
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Re: ComGuard Force Composition
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2012, 03:45:44 PM »

Straight from the FM: ComStar

Quote from: Field Manual ComStar pg. 8
...use a system based on multiples of six that offers great flexibility in deployments. Both the Com Guards and the Word of Blake Militia make use of combined-arms forces, for which the system is ideally suited. 


Quote from: Field Manual ComStar pg. 8
...a Level II, contains six Level Is and is thus roughly analogous to a reinforced lance or demi-company. In many cases a Level II contains units of the same type (e.g., BattleMechs), but combined-arms groups are also possible at this level.


Quote from: Field Manual ComStar pg. 8
...a Level III, contains six Level II formations and is the ComStar equivalent of a battalion; it is frequently referred to as such. Level IIIs are almost all combined-arms formations. Level IIIs are usually the largest formations to operate together on a regular basis.

The "Approximate" ComStar Division Formation Composition Table is on pg. 9 and showcases that the vast majority of ComGuard Divisions were indeed combined-arms down to the Level II. It's easy to see which Divisions would be more mixed than others depending on the total number of BattleMechs available. (BattleMechs seems to be the determining factor since ASFs are a consistent number and total vehicle numbers are fairly low.)

In an Alpha Division for example, only a couple of Level IIs are likely to be mixed. In any divisions from Xi down that number increases considerably simple because the total number of available units would dictate the mix. Keep in mind, "Level IIIs are almost all combined-arms formations." So while a single BattleMech in any formation, or a mix of vehicles and infantry, or ASFs would make the statement true, I doubt its a very clean mix. After all, the ComGuards were deployed quite messily as garrison troops for the bulk of their existence. 

A complete composition chart is available on Sarna.net and it's accurate.
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Re: ComGuard Force Composition
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2012, 04:54:02 PM »

I would not be suprised if ComGuard formations posted to general areas were mixed to very low levels, where as those on active fronts could have more homogenous Level II's and III's.
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Re: ComGuard Force Composition
« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2012, 04:56:51 PM »

I would not be suprised if ComGuard formations posted to general areas were mixed to very low levels, where as those on active fronts could have more homogenous Level II's and III's.

What you're really asking is how Divisions were slapped together before Tukayyid and reorganized afterwards.
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Dread Moores

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Re: ComGuard Force Composition
« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2012, 06:01:36 PM »

I'd imagine mixed Level IIs and IIIs were initially due to the ComGuards job as HPG security. An APC, a light tank or two, and maybe three platoons of infantry. A Mech, two tanks, three infantry...whatever. As the Jihad goes on, the mixed nature of level IIs and IIIs on the Blakist side seems to fall a lot more towards "It's mixed, but generally either just Mechs and BA or fighters and BA."
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Re: ComGuard Force Composition
« Reply #29 on: February 23, 2012, 08:42:49 PM »

Guess I'm always good for a laugh.  :D

Exactly what I'm looking at is a post Tukayyid ComGuard. I'd like to simplify the organizational techniques for a more uniform standard.
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