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Author Topic: Drastically changing the military paradigm  (Read 975 times)

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Dread Moores

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Drastically changing the military paradigm
« on: September 19, 2012, 12:10:52 AM »

I ran across this quote on this i09 article recently:

Quote
Personally, while I don't mind military elements in my SF, I'd like to see many fewer stories involving organisations with command hierarchies and tactical rulebooks lifted almost without change from today's navies and armies (or worse, from the navies and armies of Napoleon's time).

It left me thinking about how much BT (outside of just the tech and the background) models modern day warfare. Even when the fan base talks about, for example, having larger fleets and more WarShips, they still tend to use the same sort of carrier models as the tactical basis. So if you were going for a ground up revision, and going very outside the box here, looking to step away from the modern day paradigm: What would you do?
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Blacknova

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Re: Drastically changing the military paradigm
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2012, 12:18:36 AM »

Considering the distances and roles, I would see a far more integrated future force of ground, air and naval elements, with almost a 4th branch of service specialising in combining the three into an effecive weapon of interstellar warfare.

However, considering the nature of future warfare first requires a consideration of future weapons and looking at some of the in development weapons and weapons platforms, we really can't be too specific.

Asking the same question to someone living in the 18th C as to what war would be like in the 20th C would have been impossible.  So that is why there is the fall back to known systems in modern Sci-Fi.

Should be an interesting topic though.
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JPArbiter

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Re: Drastically changing the military paradigm
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2012, 11:01:18 AM »

it is like that cause it has been proven to work.

Warships- I would love to see fleets based on Fast Frigates models, where the half million ton 5/8 to 6/9 speed ship can out manuver and interdict whatever you want.

Battlemechs- I saw something special in the Robinson Transport, I would love a Military where 100% of Mechwarriors are Orbital Drop Certified, and THAT was their primary Mech Deployment.
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SSJGohan3972

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Re: Drastically changing the military paradigm
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2012, 11:19:07 AM »

I found that to be a very fascinating article about plausibly based science fiction and it is interesting to imagine how warfare will be different in the future but I think there are a few things we have to keep in mind with the BattleTech Universe and to a certain extent future warfare in general.

1) BattleTech physics =/= Real World Physics, horribly inadequate ranges and leathality to weapons next to relatively high movement and agility (talking mainly about BattleMechs here) make older models of fighting more, if not effective, at least easy. There are differences in aero, dropships/warships, etc. but overall the difference from real world physics IMO make it easy not to branch out.
2) BattleTech structures =/= Real World political structures and in fact the core of the BattleTech political structure is a loosely feudal based system with some small variations (Clans are a little different, some IS/Periphery factions have varying levels of individual freedoms, but the differences are actually quite minor).
3) Also keep in mind that besides the introduction of the Airplane, modern military structure has changed very little since the dark ages - if it works it works.
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Drastically changing the military paradigm
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2012, 02:32:11 PM »

Warships and space warfare are from what I understand usually underevaluated.
Why?
Because Battletech is a ground combat simulator.

1 power with the naval supremacy and not afraid to use firepower/meteor rains against infrastructures/cities is enough to subdue most nations.
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Takiro

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Re: Drastically changing the military paradigm
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2012, 04:26:27 PM »

Couple of general points for comment -

1. I always like to look at the examples of Nobel (dynamite) and Gatling (Machine Gun). Their premise war would be so horrible with these innovations that no one would fight. However the effect was very different. Why is that - because it is difficult to imagine the impact of new devices in the future.

2. What works often times is simple and boring. In war you want to kill the enemy. Tactics and strategies may evolve but the general principle remains the same so certain innovations

3. The author can justify anything depending on their imagination. I think this is the primary gripe here. Lack of imagination for a futuristic setting. Just remember the more things change the more they stay the same.
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Drastically changing the military paradigm
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2012, 02:47:33 PM »

2. What works often times is simple and boring. In war you want to kill the enemy. Tactics and strategies may evolve but the general principle remains the same so certain innovations e.

With usually the lightest casualties possible on your side (and I did say usually).
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

JPArbiter

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Re: Drastically changing the military paradigm
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2012, 09:35:02 AM »

Considering we still hold up Alexander the Great, Sun Tzu, Genghis Kahn, and the list goes on as strategic and tactical geniuses, and have simply refined those methods over the centuries, it makes sense that sci fi militaries are just further refinments of that paradigm.
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georgiaboy

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Re: Drastically changing the military paradigm
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2012, 05:17:21 PM »

Another big issue in the Battletech Universe is communication. The governments do not control the interstellar communication, without that the    governments war making is limited.
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Dread Moores

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Re: Drastically changing the military paradigm
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2012, 06:13:17 PM »

Another big issue in the Battletech Universe is communication. The governments do not control the interstellar communication, without that the    governments war making is limited.

Yeah, that's part of my issue with using modern military schemes in BT. The communication necessary for modern military operations just isn't applicable in the BT setting.
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Drastically changing the military paradigm
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2012, 01:45:41 PM »

Another big issue in the Battletech Universe is communication. The governments do not control the interstellar communication, without that the    governments war making is limited.

I guess it makes sense since you have fractioned States that were part of something bigger or it is the ultimate Cyberpunk artefact.
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

JPArbiter

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Re: Drastically changing the military paradigm
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2012, 04:31:32 PM »

a 100% impartial Comstar is one of those things I am looking forward to about the Dark Age.  no mettling whatsoever means wider and greater wars.

at the very least the Dark Age/Age of Destruction will have campaigns waged akin to the Reunifacation Wars, and massive numbers of troops were no problem there.
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SSJGohan3972

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Re: Drastically changing the military paradigm
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2012, 05:28:18 PM »

a 100% impartial Comstar is one of those things I am looking forward to about the Dark Age.  no mettling whatsoever means wider and greater wars.

at the very least the Dark Age/Age of Destruction will have campaigns waged akin to the Reunifacation Wars, and massive numbers of troops were no problem there.

ComStar/WoB/ROTS are still doing their fair share of meddling if Bonfire of Worlds is to believed.
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Re: Drastically changing the military paradigm
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2012, 06:36:59 PM »

oh I understand that, but the agenda seems to be more on letting powers destroy themselves and making money, rather then influcing politics for power.
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