Topic: Forming new Clans... Good/Bad? (Read 729 times)

Corbeau · « **on:** November 24, 2012, 06:03:30 PM »

So I'm curious what people around here think. Is the formation of a new Clan a good idea? Is it dependent on circumstances? Should it NEVER happen?

Let your voices be heard.

masterarminas · « **Reply #1 on:** November 24, 2012, 06:22:13 PM »

Forming a Clan for the sake of having a new Clan isn't a good idea. BUT, if it grounded in the story and the circumstances call for it . . . yes, it can be a good thing. Personally, I thought that the pre-Revival 'superclans' (i.e., Wolf, Jade Falcon, Ghost Bear, Smoke Jaguar, Star Adder) were getting too big. Especially given the limits on Bloodnamed Warriors. I mean 60+ Clusters for a single Clan was a bit outrageous; the tension between Warriors seeking their Bloodnames and those who had them must have been enourmous. Only 500 Warriors per Clan can have a Bloodname, after all.

MA

Dragon Cat · « **Reply #2 on:** November 24, 2012, 06:28:23 PM »

Very dependent on the circumstance.

Clan Stone Lion - yes it is a cut off part of the Hell's Horses that needs to find its own path. There was no way forward for the cut off part of Clan Hell's Horses in the Homeworlds. Instead of rolling over and dying they stood up for what they believed and were honoured with a place within the Clans to call their own.

Clan Wolf (in-Exile) - the Wolf Clan should have fixed their squabble between itself (probably before Operation Revival but there goes history for you) or been annihilated the Exiles IMO are a total affront to the Clan way. The parent Clan still survives it was reforged by those who stayed with Vlad and pulled off the greatest hail-mary in existence by seizing the Kerensky Bloodname. If that Clan had remained whole it could be the leaders of the Clans by now. Unlike the Exiles who have sat on the Lyran border and played lap dogs for 30 years.

I think the only way the Clans will survive is to create new and bring new blood into their breeding program. But the way they do it has to be the right way, it has to honour where the Clans came from or they will completely lose their way. Reaving was the start of it, the rebirth of the Hell's Horses as Stone Lions rescued a little of what little was left of them.

They say history is written by the victors... at this rate it won't be the Clans writing it.

Takiro · « **Reply #3 on:** November 24, 2012, 06:30:47 PM »

I'm a yes. I think new Clans like the Crusader Wolves and the Stone Lions in canon are good things. It brings in new competition and what I think the Clans need desperately, new blood. I wouldn't have minded if they opened new bloodlines for worthy followers of the Martial Code who perhaps now wish to follow Kerensky's vision. Unfortunately the Clans have become to narrow minded, unimaginative, and ultimately self defeating IMO.

I will also say that I am NOT fond of the canon way in which a new Clan is formed. A Khan unilaterally declares a section of their Clan is now a Clan of their own?! Not terribly Clan like. Where are the Trails? I think potential Clans should be tested or blooded in an established way like the originals had to become combat worthy prior to Klondike or my Foundation Trails (another alternate universe in which I created some new Clans). How about the ilKhan? Nicholas Kerensky founded the 20 original Clans and I think only the ilKhan should be allowed to found a new one. And what of the Grand Council? I mean a simple vote of recognition by the others saying yes we recognize you as a fellow Clan or no we do not followed of course by the appropriate Trail of Refusal.

Of course all bets are off now. Who says what is a Clan anyway? Was Clan Snord? The Wolf Dragoons? The Society? Why not??

Corbeau · « **Reply #4 on:** November 24, 2012, 10:35:37 PM »

I'm asking because I always found it interesting that there weren't more Clans formed over the years. Seemed it would have been the ideal solution for the Fire Mandrills problems.

@masterarminas - Agreed.

@Dragon Cat - There is some hope for the canon Clans. Trials of Founding for new bloodlines (so far used by the Wolves and Bears) and the Nova Cats new caste/genotype. There are those trying, but they're few and far between. The Spirit Cats MAY be a step in the right direction.

@Takira - Yeah, the line for what qualifies as Clan is becoming increasingly blurred.

Ice Hellion · « **Reply #5 on:** November 25, 2012, 02:18:48 AM »

Quote from: masterarminas on November 24, 2012, 06:22:13 PM

Forming a Clan for the sake of having a new Clan isn't a good idea. BUT, if it grounded in the story and the circumstances call for it . . . yes, it can be a good thing. Personally, I thought that the pre-Revival 'superclans' (i.e., Wolf, Jade Falcon, Ghost Bear, Smoke Jaguar, Star Adder) were getting too big. Especially given the limits on Bloodnamed Warriors. I mean 60+ Clusters for a single Clan was a bit outrageous; the tension between Warriors seeking their Bloodnames and those who had them must have been enourmous. Only 500 Warriors per Clan can have a Bloodname, after all.

Perhaps the Great Father could have thought about it and found a way to create new Clans by limiting the size of the first 20 ones (growing too big for your environment or allowing super Clans to become "fat" is not an optimal use of resources without speaking about the social pressure when you have between 1 200 and 120 000 Warriors for only 500 Bloodnames).
But I think only the ilKhan with the backup of the Great Council should be allowed to "create" one.
This could be the beginning of a Martial Olympiad Trial.

Hessian · « **Reply #6 on:** November 25, 2012, 03:56:24 AM »

I also think that the creation of a new Clan is dependent on the circumstances.
While it is debatable which circumstances warrant the creation of a new Clan(after all different persons have different opinions), the explanation of the circumstances surrounding the creation of a new Clan is important.

Ciao
Hessian

drakensis · « **Reply #7 on:** November 25, 2012, 04:05:47 AM »

The limit is 1,000 bloodnamed warriors per clan (25 bloodrights for 40 bloodnames) although very few clans ever have that many due to the reaving of disgraced bloodrights. The point remains valid though.

The reason the Fire Mandrills never schismed was that none of the Kindraa was large enough to survive alone. A clan might survive breaking into two, but not into seven.

It would have been interesting if the Sea Fox change of name was actually a schism in the clan with a new Diamond Shark clan made up of those who want to adopt the new totem while the remaining Clan Sea Fox survives a while (although they might be absorbed or annihilated later).

I suspect that the Grand Council would look warily on the creation of new Clans since it could skew the balance of power amongst the Khans. If the Fire Mandrills split into seven clans, that would create 16 new Khans, most of whom would be Crusaders. Thus the Wardens would oppose this.

Dragon Cat · « **Reply #8 on:** November 25, 2012, 05:59:10 AM »

I'd have liked to see a split in the foxes one group stays in Homeworlds as Sea Foxes (staying loyal to their origins) while the wayward Diamond Sharks live in the Inner Sphere

Then again maybe too similar to the Hell's Horse storyline

JPArbiter · « **Reply #9 on:** November 25, 2012, 03:31:21 PM »

it seriously depends on the context. creating a "new" Clan is something that should NEVER be done lightly, I hold it as akin to annihilating a clan (the awesomeness of the Wars of Reaving not withstanding.)

if you ask me I think that the Star Adders will be getting busy, creating new clans every so often when the lesser clans reach a sort of critical mass in size, forcing splits and cross breeeding as part of a long game for a renewed "Full Might" inner sphere invasion.

Dragon Cat · « **Reply #10 on:** November 25, 2012, 04:53:53 PM »

Quote from: JPArbiter on November 25, 2012, 03:31:21 PM

it seriously depends on the context. creating a "new" Clan is something that should NEVER be done lightly, I hold it as akin to annihilating a clan (the awesomeness of the Wars of Reaving not withstanding.)

+1 on awesomeness

Quote

if you ask me I think that the Star Adders will be getting busy, creating new clans every so often when the lesser clans reach a sort of critical mass in size, forcing splits and cross breeeding as part of a long game for a renewed "Full Might" inner sphere invasion.

I wouldn't bet on it. The more Clans they create the less power they will potentially have. The Star Adders are the big dogs of the Kerensky Cluster they are going to want to stay there on top. More Clans give more spread of votes on the council which causes more friction and more chance that votes go against the Adders.

Blacknova · « **Reply #11 on:** November 25, 2012, 05:16:20 PM »

Then of course, the Adders, whose growth will be faster then tha other Clans, due to thier size, could always bud a few loyal Clans along the way.

Dragon Cat · « **Reply #12 on:** November 25, 2012, 06:00:54 PM »

or you could have it the other way the small clans leeching the the Star Adders dry, each of them "harvesting" a cluster here

Corbeau · « **Reply #13 on:** November 25, 2012, 06:10:13 PM »

Quote from: Dragon Cat on November 25, 2012, 06:00:54 PM

or you could have it the other way the small clans leeching the the Star Adders dry, each of them "harvesting" a cluster here

This appeals to me greatly.

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Author Topic: Forming new Clans... Good/Bad? (Read 729 times)

Corbeau

Forming new Clans... Good/Bad?

masterarminas

Re: Forming new Clans... Good/Bad?

Dragon Cat

Re: Forming new Clans... Good/Bad?

Takiro

Re: Forming new Clans... Good/Bad?

Corbeau

Re: Forming new Clans... Good/Bad?

Ice Hellion

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Hessian

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drakensis

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Dragon Cat

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JPArbiter

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Dragon Cat

Re: Forming new Clans... Good/Bad?

Blacknova

Re: Forming new Clans... Good/Bad?

Dragon Cat

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Corbeau

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