OBT Forum

Two things:
1. is this for FNG or for seasoned soldiers?
2. quality is decreasing (an old problem).

What I found interesting is what was deleted, perhaps I read it wrong but was calling in support fire deleted?

Yikes not a good sign. Perhaps proper training was neglected during the recent wars in favor of toss em in and see if they survive.

No, they're doing that now:

http://kitup.military.com/2010/02/teaser-army-officials-recommend-major-training-cut.html

http://www.military.com/news/article/army-may-slash-warrior-task-training.html

http://defensetech.org/2010/01/28/fix-bayonets/

http://www.military.com/news/article/general-drop-bayonet-from-army-training.html?wh=news

"Recruits need to learn how to use their hands, the St. Louis native said. "A greater majority of recruits have never been in a fistfight," he added." - Wow...The Marine Corps noted this problem several years ago, and developed the MCMAP fighting style in response.

Wow.

""We were teaching Soldiers too much stuff," said Hertling, a veteran of Desert Storm and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. The result was a "task paralysis" and loss of focus." - Bullshit. That means that he's saying he has stupid troops - I say he has poor instructors.

 

I suspect that what is going on is they are trying to increase the utility of basic troops.

For example, a GI wouldn't be trained in personal recovery operations because their job was to fight.  They may be sent to recover personal of course, but they weren't trained specifically for that.  They were more concerned with killing the other guy and then could pick the pieces of their units up after.

Or medical care would be provided by a Medic rather than a GI.  Yes some GI's would know first aid, but wouldn't be trained to deal with the types of things a Medic could.

It looks like a lot of these jobs are being taken from other areas and being taught to troops as well and I expect this is a result of our increasing experience with asymmetric warfare.  I.E. you cannot just count on the Medic to provide medical care for fallen troops because enemy snipers specifically target the medics first (along with officers and people carrying heavy weapons).  Thus it becomes more important that your general troops be able to handle more tasks.

@Kit:

The problem is that there are never enough specialists to go around - for example, there might be one medic to 30 people, if that. Combat is not simple, nor is it clean and straightforward - if it ever is, you're in an ambush.

These are basic drills that ever person on the ground, in uniform and carrying a weapon, needs to know by heart. These are the "little things" that make small units efficient, and if they are efficient, that usually translates upwards to the larger units. That is what wins battles.

In effect, the Army is trying very hard to do everything possible to ram cannon-fodder into the theater. I know that sounds harsh, but I have Patton on, my side: [paraphrasing] "The more you sweat in training the less you bleed in combat" and "No one ever drowned in sweat".....I recall reading a brief back in the 80's that stated Soviet conscripts got to fire a mere 60 rounds of live ammunition in their entire 3-4 year stint - I shot that in one firing day out of 5 hooting days during the KD course, and probably three times that on the Quick Kill course, as well as uncounted rounds on machinegun ranges and in demo's...and  was in a support unit -- the more live rounds you fire, the better you get - simulators don't cut it.

And the classical: hard training, easy fights. Easy training, hard fights.

@MageOhki -- Please don't think I'm beating up on the Army, but I remember the "Time Out" cards my friends at Fort Hood were telling me about in '98, and how the Sgt's were deliriously happy that they weren't allowed in Korea.