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Author Topic: Guys, I need an opinion  (Read 680 times)

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Red Pins

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Guys, I need an opinion
« on: September 12, 2013, 02:00:33 AM »

...I think this is the final draft for these homebrew weapons from my AU, but I need some opinions.

Quote
Improved Autocannon (I-AC)
   Despite the heat efficiency of Autocannons, advances in heatsinks and energy weapons have diminished their presence on the battlefield.   Looking for weapons systems adaptable to modern warfare, the Civil Government has successfully combined the 21st century Metalstorm system with the modern Autocannon, providing compact, heat efficient weapons capable of flexibility unmatched by current designs.
   I-ACs take advantage of several centuries of development in ballistic weapons to provide cutting edge weight-to-damage ratios; the Metalstorm concept, used in large caliber grenade launchers before being abandoned by 2050, takes advantage of these developments to provide a rate of fire similar to Rotary Autocannons.

Game Rules
   I-ACs are useless after firing their pre-loaded ammo until the barrel is exchanged, but offer an increased rate of fire at a growing cost in accuracy.  I-AC/2 and /5s fire Bursts of six rounds per Turn, I-AC/10s fire Bursts of four, and I-AC/20s Bursts of two.

              Heat     Damage                   Range                Ammo     Wt                  Space               Tech
Weapon          Std(Aero)      Std (Aero)             M/S/M/L (Aero)    (barrel)  (tons)   M  E  CV  SV  F  SC  DS Rating
I-AC/2                 0*(0*)              2(2)            4/6/12/18 (Long)         45         3       1   2    1     1    1   1     1      F
I-AC/5                 0*(0*)              5(5)         3/5/10/15 (Medium)        20         4       1   3    1     2    1   1     1      F
I-AC/10                1(1)              10(10)        0/4/8/12 (Medium)          10         6       1   4    1     4    1   1     1      F
I-AC/20                3(3)              20(20)           0/3/6/9 (Short)              5         7       2   -     1     8    1   1     1      F
* - See Notes

Notes:
·   I-ACs are able to use special- and mixed ammo, in any order and any type except Caseless.  Players must record the type of ammo in order of firing.
·   I-ACs may fire single rounds or in Bursts.  Players must specify the number of rounds to be fired before the weapon is fired.
·   Heat is cumulative with each shell fired.  I-AC/2s and /5s do not generate heat for single shots; for each multiple of 2 rounds fired, one heat is generated.
·   Damage is allocated by shell, in order of rounds fired, following the rules for specialty ammo.
·   I-ACs roll on the Cluster Hits table to determine the number of rounds that hit the target.
·   I-ACs may fire a single round or Bursts.  When firing a single Burst, I-ACs do not receive a to-hit penalty and roll on the Cluster Hits table normally.
·   I-ACs may fire up to four Bursts in a single Turn, but players must make a to-hit roll for each Burst with a cumulative to-hit penalty.  Each Burst after the first requires its own to-hit roll (with a cumulative +2 to-hit penalty) and Cluster Hit table roll.
Ex.  An I-AC/2 needs a 3 to hit.  Because the to-hit number is low, the owner decides to risk the maximum number of Bursts in an attempt to kill his target.  The first Burst, without a to-hit penalty, requires a 3 (3+0), which the Player makes easily.  Rolling on the Cluster Hits table, he sees five have hit the target.  Checking the list of ammunition, he sees that all are standard rounds, and rolls hit locations for all five before proceeding.
The second Burst suffers from the first cumulative penalty, requiring a 5 (3+0+2).  Rolling on the Cluster Hits table, he finds that five more standard rounds have hit the target, and rolls hit locations for all five before proceeding.
The third Burst requires a 7 (3+0+2+2), which he makes narrowly.  Checking against the Cluster Hits table he finds 3 rounds hit the target and rolls locations for all three.
The fourth Burst brings him to his first specialty ammunition, a six-round Burst of Precision ammo.  (Note the added mass of the specialty ammo has no effect on the I-AC/2.)  The ammunition provides a –2 to-hit modifier, giving him a to-hit number of 7 (3+0+2+2+2-2) for the second time.  If the fourth Burst had been standard ammo, it would have been a 9 (3+0+2+2+2).
·   If a Burst contains mixed ammunition types each round must be individually rolled in the order of firing and a hit location determined before going on to the next Burst.

Quote
Thunderbolt-TOW Missile
   Left with shortages of modern electronics and seeking to counter the growing use of electronic warfare among the New Clans, the Legacy Cluster’s Civil Government ordered historical databases combed to identify possible battletechnology they might be capable of producing.
   The Thunderbolt-TOW system duplicates the most common anti-armor system of the 21st Century, allowing missile crews the ability to guide a projectile by means of a nose-mounted camera and wire drum mounted with the launcher.  Ignoring the EW raging around their vehicles, Civil Government forces are able to use the system to its full potential, attacking and destroying specific locations on BattleMechs and vehicles.

Game Rules
   The Thunderbolt-TOW provides a gunner the ability to inflict the full damage of a standard LRM launcher while ignoring ECM penalties, but can only be fired from a stationary launcher.  With the optical guidance system, however, the missile can be guided over terrain obstacles such as hills but restricts it to vehicle use.  It is unable to engage BA, Infantry, and airborne targets.
The system allows players to make aimed shots at a +2 penalty, even when out of direct LOS, but depends upon visual conditions at the time of launchings.  The Thunderbolt-Tow missile is vulnerable to AMS systems, and is hindered by Smoke and weather conditions (found in Tactical Operations).  The Thunderbolt-TOW is the only missile allowed on portable turrets.

              Heat    Dam                       Range         Ammo       Wt           Space                   Tech
Weapon              Std      Std                       M/S/M/L        (ton)      (tons)   M  E  CV  SV  F  SC  DS    Rating
TTOW-10                 5         10         5/6/12/18          6            5        -    -   1   2   -     -      -      D
TTOW-15               7         15         5/6/12/18          4            7        -    -   1   3   -     -      -      D
TTOW-20               8         20         5/6/12/18          2            9        -    -   1   5   -     -      -      D
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JPArbiter

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Re: Guys, I need an opinion
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2013, 10:30:50 AM »

Gotta be honest... I do not see the utility of either weapons, nor would I take them over thier more standard counterparts.
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Knightmare

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Re: Guys, I need an opinion
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2013, 11:34:59 AM »

Quote
Thunderbolt-TOW Missile

Game Rules
   The Thunderbolt-TOW provides a gunner the ability to inflict the full damage of a standard LRM launcher while ignoring ECM penalties, but can only be fired from a stationary launcher.  With the optical guidance system, however, the missile can be guided over terrain obstacles such as hills but restricts it to vehicle use.  It is unable to engage BA, Infantry, and airborne targets.
The system allows players to make aimed shots at a +2 penalty, even when out of direct LOS, but depends upon visual conditions at the time of launchings.  The Thunderbolt-Tow missile is vulnerable to AMS systems, and is hindered by Smoke and weather conditions (found in Tactical Operations).  The Thunderbolt-TOW is the only missile allowed on portable turrets.

So an aimed shot without LOS with a +2 to-hit modifier as long as the launcher is stationary at the beginning of the turn. Explain optimal visual conditions, and clearly state the missile suffers the same weather penalties like regular LRM/SRMs, etc. found in TacOps. I also think ECM should mess with the camera feed.

Maybe something like, "The Thunderbolt-TOW missile can be targeted by AMS system, and is effected by ECM. The Thunderbolt-TOW suffers the same weather penalties as described for LRMs and SRMs in TacOps.

All Thunderbolt-TOW missiles traveling through Smoke and ECM must make an immediate 1D6 roll to determine whether or not the missile crashes into the ground. A result of 1-3 the missile crashes, on a result of 4-6 the missile clears the smoke or ECM unharmed. This roll is made because smoke and ECM obscures the controller's view and ability to guide the missile. In the event the target has active ECM, a successful roll keeps the missile straight, but unable to make course corrections. 

As for the I-AC, I think the I-AC is a little over-powering IMO and could use a jam rule or some sort of negative effect when running in burst-mode.
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Red Pins

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Re: Guys, I need an opinion
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2013, 03:29:38 PM »

Gotta be honest... I do not see the utility of either weapons, nor would I take them over thier more standard counterparts.

Ah! Perfect!

Quote
Thunderbolt-TOW Missile

Game Rules
   The Thunderbolt-TOW provides a gunner the ability to inflict the full damage of a standard LRM launcher while ignoring ECM penalties, but can only be fired from a stationary launcher.  With the optical guidance system, however, the missile can be guided over terrain obstacles such as hills but restricts it to vehicle use.  It is unable to engage BA, Infantry, and airborne targets.
The system allows players to make aimed shots at a +2 penalty, even when out of direct LOS, but depends upon visual conditions at the time of launchings.  The Thunderbolt-Tow missile is vulnerable to AMS systems, and is hindered by Smoke and weather conditions (found in Tactical Operations).  The Thunderbolt-TOW is the only missile allowed on portable turrets.

So an aimed shot without LOS with a +2 to-hit modifier as long as the launcher is stationary at the beginning of the turn. Explain optimal visual conditions, and clearly state the missile suffers the same weather penalties like regular LRM/SRMs, etc. found in TacOps. I also think ECM should mess with the camera feed.

Maybe something like, "The Thunderbolt-TOW missile can be targeted by AMS system, and is effected by ECM. The Thunderbolt-TOW suffers the same weather penalties as described for LRMs and SRMs in TacOps.

All Thunderbolt-TOW missiles traveling through Smoke and ECM must make an immediate 1D6 roll to determine whether or not the missile crashes into the ground. A result of 1-3 the missile crashes, on a result of 4-6 the missile clears the smoke or ECM unharmed. This roll is made because smoke and ECM obscures the controller's view and ability to guide the missile. In the event the target has active ECM, a successful roll keeps the missile straight, but unable to make course corrections. 

As for the I-AC, I think the I-AC is a little over-powering IMO and could use a jam rule or some sort of negative effect when running in burst-mode.
:)

Ok, let's do the I-AC first.  It's one of the attractions for me in the RL system that there are no jams; mechanically, it's very simple and even the militia common in my AU can't screw it up.  Ditto the RL rate of fire.

What about reducing the ammo available for those Bursts, making it a far bigger deal to do so?  The other option is to increase the weight, something I think would reduce their attraction.  There aren't a lot of units that could spare the mass for an AC (Ultra or LB-X) and this would give them something besides beams (the NC glommed onto Reflec armor as soon as they could).

Now, the TTOW.  I don't want to get rid of the ECM-invincibility, because as far as I know, as long as the launcher would've  be out of it it would have no effect.

The AMS systems can already target the missile without a problem - but I just found the weather rules in tacops, excellent!  I'll post an updated rules segment with that later.  What would you say to a simple gunnery skill to deal with smoke?  Something like once per smoke hex travelled?

Come to think of it, although the NC use Inferno SRMs, I don't have a single, 'in case of fire it explodes' rule.  I'lladd something about that too.
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Recusant

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Re: Guys, I need an opinion
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2013, 03:14:24 AM »

With the TTOW I would think the by the time an ECM could effect it it would be up the nose of the intended target.

What about having a wire break/fail.  Upon firing randomly pick a number 1-6 and roll. If that number comes up the wire breaks/fails and the missile is lost.
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Red Pins

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Re: Guys, I need an opinion
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2013, 11:49:14 AM »



What about having a wire break/fail.  Upon firing randomly pick a number 1-6 and roll. If that number comes up the wire breaks/fails and the missile is lost.

...You, sir, are a frikken GENIUS!  One in twelve, I think, would be about right, how's that sound?
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XaosGorilla

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Re: Guys, I need an opinion
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2013, 06:31:54 AM »

Given how you are attempting to describe a wire guided missile, would a piloting check of some sort be a better method?
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Red Pins

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Re: Guys, I need an opinion
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2013, 10:38:28 AM »

...I don't know - it seems to me it would be gunnery more than piloting.  I'vewatched YouTube videos of the TOW and its jerky, seems like it might be easy (?) to snap the wire if the gunner isn't careful.
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XaosGorilla

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Re: Guys, I need an opinion
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2013, 04:04:46 PM »

I was thinking that operating a wire guided missile is essentially like driving the missile onto its target...  If the operator attempts to turn the missile too sharply, the wire breaks.   That is why I was thinking a piloting roll of some sort, in addition to a gunnery roll.  This would also help offset the weapons immunity (or near immunity) to the (abstracted) ECM.. 

A different (and realistic) possibility would be to add a requirement that the shooter be stationary (getting a large bonus to be hit) for the turn of the TOW attack.
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Red Pins

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Re: Guys, I need an opinion
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2013, 07:42:38 PM »

I was thinking that operating a wire guided missile is essentially like driving the missile onto its target...  If the operator attempts to turn the missile too sharply, the wire breaks.   That is why I was thinking a piloting roll of some sort, in addition to a gunnery roll.  This would also help offset the weapons immunity (or near immunity) to the (abstracted) ECM.. 

A different (and realistic) possibility would be to add a requirement that the shooter be stationary (getting a large bonus to be hit) for the turn of the TOW attack.

...Actually, you have to remain still in the movement phase of the turn before firing.  I figured, "that's what it is in RL, that's what it is here".  And, if you look carefully, you can only use it in a combat or support vehicle (or on one of my portable turrets, but those aren't listed here).
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