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Author Topic: Hegemony Armed Forces  (Read 2136 times)

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JPArbiter

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Re: Hegemony Armed Forces
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2013, 01:20:08 PM »

taken what steps using what information?  a military can not act on a "bad feeling." against thier commander in chief.

that would be called a military coup.
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Hegemony Armed Forces
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2013, 01:39:42 PM »

you do not disobey the lawful orders of your commander in chief because you don't like his friend.

Who said disobeying? Slowing down things.
And you might also think that letting the Hegemony Worlds without protection is a silly idea (no army was ever completely deployed in foreign lands)
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

drakensis

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Re: Hegemony Armed Forces
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2013, 04:04:36 AM »

the OP also needs to keep in mind that even in a situation where the HAF would have been separated from the SLDF, Stephan Amaris had a humongous influence on the Child First Lord (who granted was what, 19 at the time of the coup).  Kerensky HAD to obey the orders of his commander in chief, as would the Royal Command.  there was no bureaucratic method to ensure that the Hegemony was safe from an idiot Director General.

Amaris said devote all of the SLDF to the Periphery Uprisings, Cameron followed the Fat Mans advice cause there is no way Uncle Stephan would stab him in the back.  (instead he shot him in the face...)

Richard Cameron came of age in 2762 (at the age of 18) and was 22 at the time of the Coup.

Amaris left Terra in July 2764 (although he'd have remained in contact with Cameron via HPG and by the numerous officials he'd suborned in the Hegemony and Star League government), having made the pact to reinforce the Hegemony with RWA soldiers if needed.

The Periphery Uprising began in April 2765 and in July 2765 Kerensky made the decision to pull two thirds of First Army (the Hegemony's garrison) to replace units pulled out of the garrisons in the Member States.

Kerensky also proposed hiring AFFS and LCAF units to fill out the Hegemony garrisons. Which must have gone down well with the Coordinator, Captain-General and Chancellor. Also, these AFFS and LCAF units would be essentially swapping places with some of the SDLF 1st Army units, indicating Kerensky trusted the Suns and Commonwealth enough to let their troops into the Hegemony but not enough to leave them without SLDF garrisons. It's not the most politically astute proposal to make.

Cameron then announced that per the existing treaty he'd be bringing in RWA troops instead. This was after Kerensky had decided to weaken the 1st Army.

Kerensky wasn't keen, particularly since the SLDF had been ordered out of the RWR by Cameron in 2755 (which Kerensky didn't have to do since Richard was only 11 so his authority was more moral than actual, but the general decided to obey anyway) and there were no reciprocal SLDF garrisons in the RWR.

Amaris had reasonable credibility: he was generally considered a bad influence on Richard on a personal level and not to be terribly bright but overall his loyalty was not considered in doubt: he was highly influential at court and his soldiers had reportedly beaten off the local separatists (battle of Gotterdamerung) unlike the other three Territory states that had had massive 'defections' to the Uprising. Even the SLDF had defectors whereas the RWA appeared to have proven its loyalty by not doing this.

Kerensky would have had to recant his existing commitment to move troops out of the Hegemony to stop this, something that would have had significant political consequences particularly since his reasons would be distrust of someone who wasn't considered a threat on any level except as a bad advisor - not a malicious one.
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JPArbiter

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Re: Hegemony Armed Forces
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2013, 12:34:42 PM »

in the end, Kerensky would have had to have faced a choice, Follow Orders,  overthrow Cameron, or step down.  no amount of slowing things down would have prevented Amaris, just delayed his own time table, and since step one was getting the RWA into the Hegemony and integrating with the local facilities... it would have been a meaningless delay
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Hegemony Armed Forces
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2013, 03:09:06 PM »

Cameron then announced that per the existing treaty he'd be bringing in RWA troops instead. This was after Kerensky had decided to weaken the 1st Army.

Now I remember the correct chain of events.
Thanks.
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Gabriel

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Re: Hegemony Armed Forces
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2013, 08:22:38 PM »

Well if only a strong force was in place things would of been different. I still say the Royal command should of sneaked around Kerensky and skimmed off a Royal Battalion here and there and maybe altered a order or two and had  independent regiment's rerouted.
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Re: Hegemony Armed Forces
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2013, 07:57:24 PM »

Well if only a strong force was in place things would of been different. I still say the Royal command should of sneaked around Kerensky and skimmed off a Royal Battalion here and there and maybe altered a order or two and had  independent regiment's rerouted.

And what would have happened to the SLDF if such a Royal conspiracy was found out? The SLDF was already on the verge of an internal schism between the Regulars and Royals even before the Coup.

Honestly, pulling something like that isn't worth the risk.
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David CGB

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Re: Hegemony Armed Forces
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2013, 01:28:51 AM »

Well if only a strong force was in place things would of been different. I still say the Royal command should of sneaked around Kerensky and skimmed off a Royal Battalion here and there and maybe altered a order or two and had  independent regiment's rerouted.

And what would have happened to the SLDF if such a Royal conspiracy was found out? The SLDF was already on the verge of an internal schism between the Regulars and Royals even before the Coup.

Honestly, pulling something like that isn't worth the risk.
Agreed but the are ways one could hold back forces without disobaying orders,
What about units that are reserve, or they could build new reserve units for this thought
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JPArbiter

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Re: Hegemony Armed Forces
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2013, 09:57:27 AM »

First we need to keep in mind that the Hegemony was not completely emptied, and that the RWA did have to fight on Operation APOTHEOSIS, so those units left behind got wiped out or went to ground.

Second, we again forget that all roads lead to the Director General/First Lord, any decision to reactivate reserves would have to go through him, and Uncle Stephan already insisted he had the Hegemony covered, so Richard would have nixed that idea.
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Gabriel

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Re: Hegemony Armed Forces
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2013, 11:42:26 AM »

Yeah it was a combination of his stupidty, Kerensky's negligence and the lack of a STRONG Role Model caused the death of the LEAGUE
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Re: Hegemony Armed Forces
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2013, 12:37:09 PM »

Second, we again forget that all roads lead to the Director General/First Lord, any decision to reactivate reserves would have to go through him, and Uncle Stephan already insisted he had the Hegemony covered, so Richard would have nixed that idea.

This is not 100% accurate. However, for argument's sake it wouldn't have mattered anyway.

Even with a strong reserve 'activated,' the RWA units stationed in the Hegemony had enough access to strategic-level assets (CBs & SDSs), not to mention their overall size, that their presence would have only slowed the inevitable—not stopped it.

Perhaps even worse for the Hegemony, a stronger initial resistance would have likely resulted in additional damage being dealt to the Hegemony in excess to the original outcome of APOTHEOSIS.

With hindsight being what it is, the aforementioned extra damage may not have mattered in the long run—Amaris's scorched earth tactics during CHIEFTAIN more or less makes it a moot point—but prior to the SLDF's 'liberation,' APOTHESIS was pretty light. 

Honestly, had Kerensky not attempted CHIEFTAIN, the Hegemony would have likely survived.
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Re: Hegemony Armed Forces
« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2013, 01:50:31 PM »

So would you have blockaded the Hegemony and treated it as a pariah nation? Assassinating Amaris or waiting for a Terrans rebellion might not ever happen.  You may not ever get a Von Rohr type solution.  Getting rid of the fat man and his progeny is bound to be bloody.
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JPArbiter

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Re: Hegemony Armed Forces
« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2013, 07:13:44 PM »

the other option would have been acknowledge Amaris' rule
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Re: Hegemony Armed Forces
« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2013, 10:26:46 PM »

That ain't gonna happen. Unless someone took out Kerensky but let me address the thread topic with a question. Why couldn't Stefan Amaris simply usurp a Hegemony Armed Force if one existed? Like it or not the fat man was able to manipulate his way to the top in the canon universe. Why in a setting with a HAF couldn't he replace its hierarchy with his people or those Terrans felt he could influence just like Amaris did to the government? I think the end result is pretty much the same but with greater Hegemony armed resistance.
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Knightmare

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Re: Hegemony Armed Forces
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2013, 10:57:25 PM »

the other option would have been acknowledge Amaris' rule

Why not? 

So would you have blockaded the Hegemony and treated it as a pariah nation? Assassinating Amaris or waiting for a Terrans rebellion might not ever happen.  You may not ever get a Von Rohr type solution.  Getting rid of the fat man and his progeny is bound to be bloody.

Huh?

We were talking about the Royals and/or expanding the militia to beef up the resistance...

Guess this was a "flight of ideas" moment?
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