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Author Topic: Help with a new version of the Renegade Tech WarShip conversion rules?  (Read 930 times)

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Trace Coburn

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  Hey, guys.  I’ve been kicking around the RT2.0 rules for the last couple of weeks, trying to get the WarShips to be more playable and user-friendly, and I’ve come up with a revamp of the conversion rules.  In the current release, v0.6, critical hits were determined on the standard Hit Locations table — which I think is a bit too much of a holdover from Aerotech and its various iterations — and any hit to the central block destroyed the ship outright.  In the new concept, a block of internal components, inspired by those seen in Renegade Legion — Leviathans, takes the place of the simple ‘destroyed’ marker, and the size of the armour-display shrinks a little to compensate.  In the new take, a ship would be considered ‘destroyed’ when a section of the ship is separated from the rest by intersecting columns of inflicted damage — a ship in that state suffers abject structural failure.

  Here’s the wording of the new conversion rules.  (For comparison, the old v0.5.1 conversion rules are on p.39 and p.40.)  I’ve also attached a side-by-side of the diagram for the Nightwing corvette under v0.5.1 and v0.7 for a visual comparison.

Quote from: Renegade Tech Aerospace v.0.7?
1. Size category

      Escorts
    Size 1 - Corvette          (  100,000 -   300,000 tons)
    Size 2 - Destroyer         (  310,000 -   500,000 tons)

      Cruisers
    Size 3 - Light Cruiser     (  510,000 -   700,000 tons)
    Size 4 - Heavy Cruiser     (  710,000 -   900,000 tons)

      Capital ships
    Size 5 - Battleships     (  910,000 - 2,500,000 tons)

   Escorts have four hit-locations (Nose, Aft, Left, Right).  Their Nose and Aft SI/armour blocks are five boxes wide; roll 2d3 to determine Nose/Aft hit centrepoints.
  Corvettes have Left and Right SI/armour blocks that are nine boxes wide; roll 4d3 to determine Nose/Aft hit centrepoints.
  Destroyers have Left and Right SI/armour blocks that are eleven boxes wide; roll 2d6 to determine Nose/Aft hit centrepoints.

   Cruisers have six hit-locations (Nose, Aft, Fore-Left, Aft-Left, Fore-Right, Aft-Right).  Their Nose and Aft SI/armour blocks are seven boxes wide; roll 3d3 to determine Nose/Aft hit centrepoints.
  Light cruisers have Fore-Left, Aft-Left, and Fore-Right and Aft-Right SI/armour blocks that are each nine boxes wide; roll 4d3 to determine hit centrepoints on these facings.
  Heavy cruisers have Fore-Left, Aft-Left, and Fore-Right and Aft-Right SI/armour blocks that are each eleven boxes wide; roll 2d6 to determine hit centrepoints on these facings.

   Battleships have six hit-locations (Nose, Aft, Fore-Left, Aft-Left, Fore-Right, Aft-Right).
  Their Nose and Aft SI/armour blocks are nine boxes wide; roll 4d3 to determine Nose/Aft hit centrepoints.
  Their Fore-Left, Aft-Left, and Fore-Right and Aft-Right SI/armour blocks are each sixteen boxes wide; roll 3d6 to determine hit centrepoints on these facings.

2. SI rows per location: divide the WarShip’s SI rating by 10 (use Swedish rounding).
 
3. Armour rows per location:
   A] divide the WarShip’s SI rating by 20 (use Swedish rounding).  These are the base armour-rows.
   B] divide each location’s armour rating by 20 (use Swedish rounding) and add the result to the base armour-rows.  (Escorts converting their Left and Right armour ratings use the average of the Fore and Aft armour ratings for each side.)

  Of the two, which set of conversion guidelines looks easier to use?  Which is more ‘realistic’, and which more flavourful?

  Please, guys, your thoughts?  These rules have been out on the ’Net in beta-form for a year and a half, and the only feedback I’ve had on them has come from Khymerion and his group playing a game of BattleTech 1988....  :(
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Help with a new version of the Renegade Tech WarShip conversion rules?
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2015, 04:20:13 AM »

Just a silly question (I am no Aerospace expert): why do they have different hit-locations according to their mass? Couldn't you just increase the resistance of each hit-location?

Also I do like your new take to destroy ships, it looks easier and better.
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Trace Coburn

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Re: Help with a new version of the Renegade Tech WarShip conversion rules?
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2015, 12:05:43 AM »

Just a silly question (I am no Aerospace expert): why do they have different hit-locations according to their mass? Couldn't you just increase the resistance of each hit-location?

Also I do like your new take to destroy ships, it looks easier and better.
  Each box of the central systems-diagram can/will hold something like an internal system or a weapons turret.  That means targets can suffer differing degrees of component damage and lose fighting capability in radically different ways, depending on what gets hit where and when.  Bigger ships have more space for internal components (including turrets), and thus a greater ability to ‘fight hurt’, because they’re less likely to loose all of their firepower to one or two hits.  Expanding the size of the hit-locations reflects the relative sizes of the different categories of ship; it also reflects the larger ships’ greater ability to absorb punishment (by spreading out the hits they do take) without ramping the number of armour-rows in a given block up to impractical sizes.  (It may be an outlier, but under the old system, the Mjolnir’s bow has an armour-block 18 boxes wide, with a depth of 13 SI rows and 33 armour rows, which is probably a little unwieldy for pick-up games.)
  As it currently stands, the only other way to ‘increase the (damage) resistance’ would be for weapons to use different-sized damage-templates when attacking different-sized ships, and tracking which template to use against which category of target would add another step of complexity and juggling to a system that might already be getting too complicated for its own good.  :(
  The objective is to encourage players/designers to use a mix of weapons for different purposes, like in ground combat.  NGRs, NACs, and NPPCs are mainly meant for hole-punching; large numbers of NLs and missile-warheads either swat down fighters/missiles, strip off huge chunks of armour so the hole-punchers can get into the chewy centre easier, or hope to exploit breaches forced by other weapons.

  That said, I am playing with the idea of borrowing the dice and mechanics used in FFG’s Star Wars games to resolve critical hits, rather than worrying about calculating damage thresholds.  (Dice pictured here.)  The differing shapes and symbols of the dice would make them easier to read for people with colour-blindness than different colours of standard dice, which I understand was a problem with the recent Leviathans game.  And FFG having a readily-available dice-app would be handy for most groups, too.
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Help with a new version of the Renegade Tech WarShip conversion rules?
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2015, 11:31:48 AM »

So instead of having more armour, the bigger ships would have more places to be hit?
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Trace Coburn

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Re: Help with a new version of the Renegade Tech WarShip conversion rules?
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2015, 08:18:20 PM »

So instead of having more armour, the bigger ships would have more places to be hit?
  Yes.  On larger ships, the probability curve of the hit-location and centre-point dice should scatter successive hits over a wider area.  And given that larger ships generally have higher SI- and armour-numbers, their protection is likely to be thicker overall than smaller ships, so those scattered hits are less likely to penetrate than the tightly-clustered-and-overlapping hits that smaller ships will typically suffer.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2015, 08:24:08 PM by Trace Coburn »
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Help with a new version of the Renegade Tech WarShip conversion rules?
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2015, 01:35:15 AM »

It makes sense.
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Takiro

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Re: Help with a new version of the Renegade Tech WarShip conversion rules?
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2015, 08:01:43 AM »

The concept seems pretty sound.
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