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Author Topic: If you Could Choose the clan Invasion route  (Read 17043 times)

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Kwic

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Re: If you Could Choose the clan Invasion route
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2011, 03:28:23 PM »

Personally, I'd prefer to see it follow fairly closely to the Canon information we have.  ie departing from DC space, which would result in the most likely location of the Clans being somewhere Coreward to Spinward of the Inner Sphere proper.  That pretty much rules out the FWL-LC and the FWL-CC borders, and makes the CC-FS border a bit of a long shot, leaving the DC borders, either DC-LC or DC-FS.  Both of these borders have seen a lot of action in recent times so there will be plenty of "experienced" troops to face, and the populations will be suitably war torn.

The other major front seeing a lot of action was the CC-FS border, and to a lesser extent the FWL-LC border.

Any of the periphery nations are at best a speed bump for the rampaging clans.  Most don't have the mobility to mount an effective fighting retreat, and most of the periphery forces that aren't mobile are just enough to blood a couple of galaxies of the latest crop of trueborns.  (Both in Canon and AU)

So my money is on the same location as canon, much to my own personal chagrin.
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SSJGohan3972

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Re: If you Could Choose the clan Invasion route
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2011, 04:21:56 PM »

If I had to go with a canon-like invasion (ie a handful of clans attack from a single direction) I would either go the canon direction or between Davion and Kurita I would think it would be a nice little Warden ploy to get the Crusader all worked up and say "you won't attack that way because your scared they'll beat you" just like I always imagine the Wardens did to get the Crusader to limit the number of Clans in Operation REVIVAL.

However given free reign I would make it an Operation with all clans involved, splitting the Inner Sphere into 5 regions (not corresponding directly to the houses) and assigning clans to each region. Depending on how many clans are still around the more difficult areas would get more or stronger clans. Several years of lead up and intelligence gathering ala Operation SABLE SUN and then we have Operation KLONDIKE 2
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Ice Hellion

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Re: If you Could Choose the clan Invasion route
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2011, 04:28:25 PM »

However given free reign I would make it an Operation with all clans involved, splitting the Inner Sphere into 5 regions (not corresponding directly to the houses) and assigning clans to each region. Depending on how many clans are still around the more difficult areas would get more or stronger clans. Several years of lead up and intelligence gathering ala Operation SABLE SUN and then we have Operation KLONDIKE 2

Don't you think that by doing this they would overextend themselves?
After all, their armies are not that numerous when compared to those of the Inner Sphere.
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Blacknova

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Re: If you Could Choose the clan Invasion route
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2011, 06:56:50 PM »

Interesting thoughts. The final voting from this site and CBT was

           CBT   OBT   Total
LC/DC   10   1   11   13.6%
DC/FS   14   9   23   28.4%
FS/CC/FW   24   9   33   40.7%
FW/LC   12   2   14   17.3%

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Re: If you Could Choose the clan Invasion route
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2011, 07:10:41 PM »

Interesting thoughts. The final voting from this site and CBT was

           CBT   OBT   Total
LC/DC   10   1   11   13.6%
DC/FS   14   9   23   28.4%
FS/CC/FW   24   9   33   40.7%
FW/LC   12   2   14   17.3%

No one likes the Capellans lol with no FRR in this the Capellans become the new FRR its basically canon in reverse that way although the Taurian/Magistracy angle adds to the trouble the Clans could have.
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Really, as long as there is an unbroken line of people calling themselves "Clan Nova Cat," it doesn't really matter to me if they're still using Iron Wombs or not. They may be dead as a faction, but as a people they still exist. It's not uncommon in the real world, after all.

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Re: If you Could Choose the clan Invasion route
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2011, 07:13:03 PM »

True and I have made the final decision on where they will strike...but that is only revealed to the developers for the clans.
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SSJGohan3972

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Re: If you Could Choose the clan Invasion route
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2011, 07:21:09 PM »

However given free reign I would make it an Operation with all clans involved, splitting the Inner Sphere into 5 regions (not corresponding directly to the houses) and assigning clans to each region. Depending on how many clans are still around the more difficult areas would get more or stronger clans. Several years of lead up and intelligence gathering ala Operation SABLE SUN and then we have Operation KLONDIKE 2

Don't you think that by doing this they would overextend themselves?
After all, their armies are not that numerous when compared to those of the Inner Sphere.

Considering 4 clans (and 2 more later on but those were added to slow the invasion down in reality) took an area just smaller than a successor state I don't see how it would be that much of an issue it would be a big job and would need to be prepared for. The Sable Sun phase would require the clans setting up basses of operation in the periphery near their areas of operation which would require halfway intelligence clanners which canon seems to lack but an AU would not have to. Nicholas Kerensky was probably planning Operation KLONDIKE from the moment he first left on his "second exodus" and twenty years would be the minimum I would say it would take to prepare for an invasion on the scale of the entire IS.
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Re: If you Could Choose the clan Invasion route
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2011, 07:35:48 PM »

The issue of any invasion is not how many Clans are involved or where they attack from (though this is contributary to the actual problem), the primary issue was logistics.

The Clans failed at this, utterly, and any invasion through Capellan spoace would more than double their problems.  It would be like Great Britain invading Russia via Siberia.  The Clans failure was dirven by both thier lack of effective logistics and thier own strictures on all out war.  These issues mutually compound with every light year travelled and when adding another 1000LY dogleg to the already long line of supply, you get into real trouble.

Even if every Clan sent thier entire front line force and struck every state at once, they would still fail, as the IS would be immidiately unified and strike back as one.  The only real effective invasion would be a 20 Clan race to Terra through the Commonwealth and Combine, using solid frontline forces and a swath or second line troops for garrison work.

Still, that option would turn the IS area taken into a miniture Kerensky Cluster, with no firm borders for each Clan.  No matter what happens, Terra really is the Clans unreachable star, due to thier lack of foresight and own cultural strictures.
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SSJGohan3972

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Re: If you Could Choose the clan Invasion route
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2011, 07:59:21 PM »

That's exactly what I'm saying you can't operate with 1000 light year supply trains which is why if I was running the clans I would take over periphery worlds slowly and discreetly all around the IS and set them up as bases of operations then when the actual invasion begins it will be a long one - Operation Klondike took almost a year of actual combat after nearly 4 years of Sable Sun planning and after combat was over they dealt with incorporating the people for years after, even generations. A successful invasion of the Inner Sphere would need to be a lot slower than the canon and would result in an inner sphere split up akin to the Kerensky Cluster.

I do disagree about if all the clans attacked at once the IS would be "immediately unified" in fact I think the exact opposite would happen, with each state being attacked they aren't going to want to do anything to help their neighbors, only themselves.

Also the goal of the invasion can not be Terra it has to be the subjugation of the whole sphere or its a no-go.
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Re: If you Could Choose the clan Invasion route
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2011, 08:07:43 PM »

However, 250 years of development means the Clans cannot think that way, they are not conditioned for it.  A slow aquisition of the periperhy is not in the Clan psyche, they do not operate slowly in war, no matter how much sense such a plan would make to the Adders and Wolves.

There is also the problem of ComStar's roving patrols (Explorer Corps) and the stories of pirates who would encounter them.  Keeping so many bases secret over such a time frame would be impossible and the IS would be tipped off at some stage.  Furthermore, even if the IS states are not helping each other, by all fighting the Clans, they are doing so in fact, if not in word or deed.

The planning for SABLE SUN/KLONDIKE was made by officers with experinces in a 20 year war and a 1000LY colonisation journey, the invasion of the Inner Sphere is led by Warriros who's idea of a long battle is actulaly having to break for lunch.  To undertake slow and methodical campaign, there would need to be a major and drastic shift in the outlook, ethos and culture of the Warrior caste.
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Re: If you Could Choose the clan Invasion route
« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2011, 08:48:34 PM »

Granted, it would require a radical shift in how the clans operate and the logistics would be astronomical but they had the forces to do it also I don't see the reason to keep it a secret. Take several periphery bases out from the main periphery states then move in on the TC, MoC, MH, OA, Oberon, Circinus areas. Even if the IS knew what was happening I doubt they would grasp the implications and ComStar can't pull a Tukkayid if the clans are coming from all directions, come to think of it ComStar's help would be even more beneficial with the clans coming from all directions.

I'm not trying to say it should have happened in canon or even that it should in an AU, its just interesting and more plausiblepossible than some people make it out to be.

Plausible is too strong, it would require a lot of changes.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2011, 09:06:12 PM by SSJGohan3972 »
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Re: If you Could Choose the clan Invasion route
« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2011, 01:02:22 AM »

True and I have made the final decision on where they will strike...but that is only revealed to the developers for the clans.

So when do we find out?
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Really, as long as there is an unbroken line of people calling themselves "Clan Nova Cat," it doesn't really matter to me if they're still using Iron Wombs or not. They may be dead as a faction, but as a people they still exist. It's not uncommon in the real world, after all.

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Re: If you Could Choose the clan Invasion route
« Reply #27 on: July 28, 2011, 01:04:02 AM »

I posted a thread in the KU Clan Developers forum for discussion
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drakensis

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Re: If you Could Choose the clan Invasion route
« Reply #28 on: July 28, 2011, 03:08:48 AM »

If anyone remembers my Star Adder Symphony AU it had the Star Adders carry out an invasion that took about as many worlds as all the other Clans combined. However it did this via four methods:

1. Spending 45 years developing a colony 200 light years from their intended invasion zone to support the factories building their ammunition, fuel, spare armour...
2. Over the same time assembling enough of a jumpship fleet to run a double command circuit between the Pentagon and that supply world to cover for what they couldn't yet build at their forward base.
3. Attacking with seven frontline galaxies and about twice that in garrison forces (which ended up costing them most of their Clan space holdings).
4. Hitting a lightly defended region of the Lyran Commonwealth.

And even with that, they failed to take Tharkad or get within 200 light years of Terra.

The Clan Invasion is a far more difficult exercise than the Clans ever realised.
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Re: If you Could Choose the clan Invasion route
« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2011, 06:52:15 AM »

Is that story on this site, as it was sweet.
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You know there is something wrong with the FWL, when Word's spell check changes Impavido to Impetigo and Zechetinu to Secretion.
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