Topic: Interesting Discussion (Read 2884 times)

Blacknova · « **on:** July 25, 2012, 06:00:50 AM »

For those not aware of it, there is a very interesting discussion over long distance colony fleets on CBT here:

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,20705.0.html

A good read for AU developers basing themselves on a colonial program.

Takiro · « **Reply #1 on:** July 25, 2012, 06:29:17 AM »

The numbers seem mind boggling

Cestusrex · « **Reply #2 on:** July 25, 2012, 10:02:55 AM »

Too complicated. I would just fall back on the fiction writers best friend, the magical snap-of-the-fingers and poof a colony appears. Anonymous reader: But. But. How did it get there? Fiction writer (me): Shut up and read the story. If you want logic and numbers that add up (sometimes), head over to the NON-fiction section. But that's just me. Your mileage may very, discontinue use if redness appears, make sure the firearm is unloaded and that the chamber is clear, beware of dog, and this ride is not recommended for women who are pregnant and anyone with a heart condition.

Dragon Cat · « **Reply #3 on:** July 25, 2012, 11:37:15 AM »

If I was going to do it I'd probably build (in secret) a fleet of Potemkins cut the fleet sizes right down

Knightmare · « **Reply #4 on:** July 25, 2012, 12:55:04 PM »

Quote from: Cestusrex on July 25, 2012, 10:02:55 AM

Too complicated. I would just fall back on the fiction writers best friend, the magical snap-of-the-fingers and poof a colony appears. Anonymous reader: But. But. How did it get there? Fiction writer (me): Shut up and read the story. If you want logic and numbers that add up (sometimes), head over to the NON-fiction section. But that's just me. Your mileage may very, discontinue use if redness appears, make sure the firearm is unloaded and that the chamber is clear, beware of dog, and this ride is not recommended for women who are pregnant and anyone with a heart condition.

That's pretty much how the original FASA writers of the Star League explained all of their achievements (Read: Dark Age Magic or McGuffin Device).

Quote from: Dragon Cat on July 25, 2012, 11:37:15 AM

If I was going to do it I'd probably build (in secret) a fleet of Potemkins cut the fleet sizes right down

Good luck with that. Wouldn't help with time-saving. Only a CC would help.

Cestusrex · « **Reply #5 on:** July 25, 2012, 02:17:08 PM »

Quote from: Knightmare on July 25, 2012, 12:55:04 PM

That's pretty much how the original FASA writers of the Star League explained all of their achievements (Read: Dark Age Magic or McGuffin Device).

I was thinking more along the lines of a Bloody Stupid Johnson designed and/or built device.

Dread Moores · « **Reply #6 on:** July 25, 2012, 02:56:39 PM »

Quote from: Cestusrex on July 25, 2012, 10:02:55 AM

Too complicated. I would just fall back on the fiction writers best friend, the magical snap-of-the-fingers and poof a colony appears. Anonymous reader: But. But. How did it get there? Fiction writer (me): Shut up and read the story. If you want logic and numbers that add up (sometimes), head over to the NON-fiction section. But that's just me. Your mileage may very, discontinue use if redness appears, make sure the firearm is unloaded and that the chamber is clear, beware of dog, and this ride is not recommended for women who are pregnant and anyone with a heart condition.

Hold on to your hat everybody, I'm about to agree with Sir Cest...partially. (Why yes, that is a blizzard of hellfire outside. Thanks for asking.)

There's value to threads like this, since they help to expand on the holes your own ideas or plans may have. But at the end of the day, BT is a fictional setting that is built upon a great deal of handwaving. There's a happy medium that needs to be reached, though. Handwaving everything leads to a story with a very weak foundation, and it is something that readers will notice quickly. Alternately, getting bogged down in the minutiae will also get noticed. Take what you find as useful, but don't be afraid to use dirty writer tricks as necessary.

Takiro · « **Reply #7 on:** July 25, 2012, 04:02:51 PM »

Well put DM and C-rex!

Dragon Cat · « **Reply #8 on:** July 25, 2012, 04:38:23 PM »

I agree with DM what works for the fiction works for the setting

I think the biggest colonisation fleet you'd likely see would be max 20 JS much bigger than that then you local Succession War leader or General starts to worry about a force returning causing hassle in future

Also depends on your timescale it's natural for a colony to grow unhindered so the size of the colony fleet shouldnt matter too much if they are well equipped and unhindered when they get there

Dread Moores · « **Reply #9 on:** July 25, 2012, 06:18:05 PM »

Quote from: Dragon Cat on July 25, 2012, 04:38:23 PM

I think the biggest colonisation fleet you'd likely see would be max 20 JS much bigger than that then you local Succession War leader or General starts to worry about a force returning causing hassle in future

You'd have to specify an era for this to have any kind of context. 20 JumpShips would be a tiny drop in the bucket to canon examples of colonization that happened as far back as during the Age of War. They've already hinted at canon fleets much larger than that.

Dragon Cat · « **Reply #10 on:** July 26, 2012, 04:20:34 AM »

Quote from: Dread Moores on July 25, 2012, 06:18:05 PM

Quote from: Dragon Cat on July 25, 2012, 04:38:23 PM
I think the biggest colonisation fleet you'd likely see would be max 20 JS much bigger than that then you local Succession War leader or General starts to worry about a force returning causing hassle in future

You'd have to specify an era for this to have any kind of context. 20 JumpShips would be a tiny drop in the bucket to canon examples of colonization that happened as far back as during the Age of War. They've already hinted at canon fleets much larger than that.

If it was age of war then I'd say how many Aquillas do you need

Blacknova · « **Reply #11 on:** July 26, 2012, 07:05:47 AM »

This does branch into the how many JumpShips were there question, which will never be answered. But if the IS of 3025 had 20-30 000 [one of the few figures that does seem to get a mention] and losses had been close to crippleing, the number during the Star League era could easily have been 10 times that number.

Dragon Cat · « **Reply #12 on:** July 26, 2012, 11:07:43 AM »

Quote from: Blacknova on July 26, 2012, 07:05:47 AM

This does branch into the how many JumpShips were there question, which will never be answered. But if the IS of 3025 had 20-30 000 [one of the few figures that does seem to get a mention] and losses had been close to crippleing, the number during the Star League era could easily have been 10 times that number.

Considering the WarShip numbers probably even more

Minerva12345 · « **Reply #13 on:** July 26, 2012, 03:49:01 PM »

Let's insert some facts (from NASA) to discussion.

A typical planned modern space habitat has population of 10000 inhabitants (45% men, 45% women, 10% children). I make a simplifying assumption that they are now actually located in an alien planet.

Thus they need following cargo manifest (all values metric tons):

Dry soil: 220,000 tn
Water (to moist the dry soil): 22,000 tn
Water (other community use): 20,000 tn

This cargo is needed if we make a realistic assumption that local biosphere cannot directly support colonists and thus Earth based till and water is required at first at least. Additionally following biomass is used and related to agriculture required by inhabitants:

Animals: 900 tn
Plants: 5,000 tn

These requirements must be fulfilled because local flora and fauna cannot be expected to be supporting to inhabitants (at least not immediately).

Following structures are necessary to house and support infrastructure:

Structures: 77,000 tn
Sub-Structures (20% of Structures are supporting auxiliary infrastructure): 15,000 tn
Furniture & Appliances: 20,000 tn
Machinery: 40,000 tn
Utilities: 29,500 tn
Miscellaneous (extra hardware and odds & ends): 80,000 tn

Note that the above mentioned values assume that future crop production is roughly 10 times as good as agricultural production in mid-1970's. Assuming that they are not all previous agriculture related mass numbers should be multiplied by ten.

These numbers can be broken down further if there is need but I think this gives you a ballpark figure of what kind of logistics are related to colony building.

Dragon Cat · « **Reply #14 on:** July 26, 2012, 04:27:27 PM »

I'd think multiple DropShips would need to be broken up or used as habitats to start with, or even integrated into the structures.

But at the same time a WarShip, or at least an armed transport of some sort would be better in the short run (in BattleTech verse) because of the massive Cargo Holds a WarShip has.

BTW welcome to boards Minerva

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Author Topic: Interesting Discussion (Read 2884 times)

Blacknova

Interesting Discussion

Takiro

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Cestusrex

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Dragon Cat

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Knightmare

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Cestusrex

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Dread Moores

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Takiro

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Dragon Cat

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Dread Moores

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Dragon Cat

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Blacknova

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Dragon Cat

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Minerva12345

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Dragon Cat

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