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Author Topic: Losses  (Read 937 times)

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Ice Hellion

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Losses
« on: June 27, 2015, 12:37:52 AM »

I was looking at the old Star League Sourcebook and I was curious about the casualty level of the SLDF units after the Amaris' Coup.
I think it would be heavy but why disband some units and others not?
What is the minimum level to disband an unit or to keep it?
If an unit is destroyed, how much of it can be thought to be still there (I never heard of units being destroyed at 100%)?
And so on and so on.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2015, 12:42:01 AM by Ice Hellion »
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Blacknova

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Re: Losses
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2015, 09:28:58 PM »

Depends, A unit with its entire command apparatus wiped out in a head hunter could be at 95% strength and next t useless.  Another unit could have lost 80 of strength across the board.
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Losses
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2015, 03:18:03 PM »

I just read in Historical: Liberation of Terra Volume 2 that General DeChavilier wrote that they (I guess Kerensky and him or was it standard procedure?) decided to disband on a temporary basis units with a strength under 50% of their nominal strength.

On a temporary basis as they intended to recreate them after the war.
It seems they went the quality over quantity way (bringing more and more veterans in the surviving units).
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Takiro

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Re: Losses
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2015, 04:20:57 PM »

In regards to the SLDF post Coup their losses could not be made up because of political realities. The High Council really didn't agree on a way forward and sought to recruit troops for themselves and not the SLDF. The Terran Hegemony and the Periphery were a mess with resources needed to rebuild vital infrastructure. As a result Star League units would have to make do and as I point out in FM Terran Republic 2785 that wasn't easy. It was an aging force that had seen constant conflict since 2765. It would have been difficult for the SLDF to even maintain their post war size without House support which was not coming. So some kind of reorganization had to happen or units would have been left understrength.
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Losses
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2015, 02:04:41 PM »

In regards to the SLDF post Coup their losses could not be made up because of political realities. The High Council really didn't agree on a way forward and sought to recruit troops for themselves and not the SLDF. The Terran Hegemony and the Periphery were a mess with resources needed to rebuild vital infrastructure. As a result Star League units would have to make do and as I point out in FM Terran Republic 2785 that wasn't easy. It was an aging force that had seen constant conflict since 2765. It would have been difficult for the SLDF to even maintain their post war size without House support which was not coming. So some kind of reorganization had to happen or units would have been left understrength.

This I can understand and also why they went that way during the war and after it but my question was much how much losses must they take before being disbanded.
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

David CGB

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Re: Losses
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2015, 10:59:56 PM »

In regards to the SLDF post Coup their losses could not be made up because of political realities. The High Council really didn't agree on a way forward and sought to recruit troops for themselves and not the SLDF. The Terran Hegemony and the Periphery were a mess with resources needed to rebuild vital infrastructure. As a result Star League units would have to make do and as I point out in FM Terran Republic 2785 that wasn't easy. It was an aging force that had seen constant conflict since 2765. It would have been difficult for the SLDF to even maintain their post war size without House support which was not coming. So some kind of reorganization had to happen or units would have been left understrength.

This I can understand and also why they went that way during the war and after it but my question was much how much losses must they take before being disbanded.
it would also depend on how popular the unit is with high command, a popular unit could drop to 3% and be rebuilt while a unpopular unit could drop to 70% and be disbanded.
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Losses
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2015, 02:11:54 PM »

it would also depend on how popular the unit is with high command, a popular unit could drop to 3% and be rebuilt while a unpopular unit could drop to 70% and be disbanded.

According to the extract I found, their approach was not biased.
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Takiro

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Re: Losses
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2015, 09:07:38 PM »

Units likely earned their reputation through this period of time so I doubt you'd see a ton of politics play into decisions to keep a division on the rolls. For this reason recent performance probably had more to do with rebuilding a damaged unit rather than traditional placements like the Black Watch.
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Losses
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2015, 02:32:08 PM »

Units likely earned their reputation through this period of time

Not really.
Some had already a reputation before the Amaris' Coup.
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

JPArbiter

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Re: Losses
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2015, 04:10:14 PM »

Liberation of Terra covers it.  nominally a unit has to be knocked to 50% or below to be stricken from the records and it's assets transferred to units nominally in need of replacements but still in that effective definition.  I am sure there were some units that were preserved and given life support vis a vie replacements for thier reputation, meanwhile the ones that were likely to be stricken first are ones like the Divisions financed by the Houses (Marik, Davion and Steiner did so, not sure about Kurita, Liao could not afford it)

we should also remember that numerous Auxiliaries were made from Volunteers from the Houses, Periphery Volunteers, and Amaris Opposition in the RWR, those units lived and died day to day with almost no paperwork of thier existence.  Hell thier identifiers were probably "Task Force X"

the big question is Royal Divisions, arguably the symbol of the Hegemony, and whether the kept to the "All present are Hegemony Natives" requirment, or if replacements began flowing from house and Periphery oriented forces.
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Losses
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2015, 02:03:49 PM »

Liberation of Terra covers it. 

Thanks for the input. I had looked there too.
I came to something that suits me, not 100% but this is war and not everything goes how you want.
No I need to work on fluff and ...
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5
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