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Author Topic: Need some info!  (Read 2662 times)

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masterarminas

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Re: Need some info!
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2012, 09:58:39 PM »

And here's my take on the naval forces available during this time.  The numbers are based on what we know the Clans have, plus information from Klondike and Wars of Reaving about what other ships they took out of the caches (or were destroyed).  I have inflated the numbers in certain classes in order to match the canon number of 401 ships (402 if you count the McKenna's Pride which is blown apart in this AU).   Tell me if the numbers look right, please.

First of all:  here are the numbers of WarShips that ComStar/WoB had access to after the Exodus (does not include any ships they produced in the interim). 

ComStar/WoB:  1 x Bonaventure; 6 x Vincent; 3 x Baron; 1 x Carson; 4 x Naga; 1 x Riga (York); 11 x Essex; 8 x Lola III; 1 x Quixote; 5 x Aegis; 2 x Congress; 3 x Sovetskii Soyuz; 3 x Black Lion; 1 x Cameron; 1 x Potemkin; 1 x McKenna; 2 x Newgrange

Total:  54

Next are my take on the ships that would have gone on the Exodus, with notes where necessary:

Exodus:  4 x Bug Eyes; 6 x Mako; 36 x Carrack; 38 x Vincent; 7 x Samarkand II; 4 x Baron; 1 x Concordat; 1 x Davion I; 8 x Whirlwind; 22 x Riga (York); 16 x Essex; 39 x Lola III (Note #1); 1 x Wagon Wheel; 11 x Quixote (Voga); 1 x Winchester; 38 x Aegis; 24 x Congress; 5 x Kimagure; 12 x Black Lion; 40 x Sovetskii Soyuz (Note #2); 7 x Avatar (Liberator); 12 x Cameron; 1 x Du Shi Wang; 2 x Monsoon (Note #3); 32 x Potemkin (Note #4); 8 x Texas (Note #5); 17 x McKenna (Note #6); 8 x Newgrange (Note #7)

Total:  401 (I added some Makos (4), Carracks (7), Vincents (14), Samarkands (4), Barons (3), a Concordat (1), a Wagon Wheel (1), a Winchester (1), and Congresses (7) as 'filler' to reach the 401 mark.  I decided on the three Taurian ships as having been in mothballs all these years, activated in the aftermath of the decision to launch Exodus.)

Note 1:  We are told that the Lola III is the second most common vessel of the Exodus Fleet.  But not according to the numbers I have crunched here.  I added one more Lola III to make it the second most common vessel (40 Sovetski Soyuz, 39 Lola III, 38 Aegis).

Note 2:  We are told that 'about forty' Sovetskii Soyuz survived to depart with the SLDF on the Exodus; I can only account for 17, however.  I find it surprising that there would be 23 of these ships in naval caches, but . . . perhaps it is so.

Note 3:  We discover in Liberation of Terra, that Kerensky added two Kurita battleships to his Fleet.  No class was specified.  I have assigned them as Monsoon-class; older ships that are no threat to the SLDF.

Note 4:  Likewise, we are told that only 30 Potemkins survived--and that one of those was lost.  My numbers show 31 on active duty in Clans and one more that was lost (Clan Widowmaker Ship Egg Sack).

Note 5:  Just seven Texas-class were part of the Exodus; the only seven to survive the conflict.  TRO 3057 even mentions that two of the survivors were then subsequently destroyed!  But that doesn't match up with what is listed in succeeding books:  there are 8 Texas class ships, and I cannot find a note indicating the loss of any Texas prior to the Wars of Reaving.  Seven ships are on active duty, the Prinz Eugen serves as a penal ship, and another vessel (Perth) is mentioned as having surrendered in Klondike.  Now, Perth could be one of the Texas-class belonging to the other Clans, just renamed.  It isn't clear.  But that still leaves 8.  Not seven, and definately not five.

Note 6:  Twenty-nine McKenna-class survived the Amaris Coup and the Liberation. Eleven of those were scuttled (but it seems like that one of those was actually repaired by ComStar/WoB).  That means eighteen departed on the Exodus.  I can only account for 9, though.  I have decreased this by one, since this scenario requires that McKenna's Pride gets clobbered on the approach to Earth.

Note 7:  We don't know how many Newgrange-class ships were in the Exodus Fleet, but I have given the number as 8.  These are rear-area ships, but they will still have suffered greatly from Amaris raiders.  And the presence of them gives an explanation for how the Clans developed their space industry so quickly.


   

« Last Edit: July 06, 2012, 09:08:07 PM by masterarminas »
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masterarminas

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Re: Need some info!
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2012, 10:06:29 PM »

I'm planning on having Aaron consolidate into the former-Royal Divisions of the SLDF for the HAF; but HAF will not have 'Royal' formations.  They will be open to any soldier who joins HAF.  Or to put it another way, they might well have some royal-quality equipment, but mostly just the regular SLDF stuff, and a mix of native-born Terrans, former-SLDF from any of the member states who stay, and even some Rim Worlders who fought against Amaris.

Fair enough. I was just trying to figure out how you were getting from Fiction Point A to Fiction Point B.

Just to clarify, I was using the term "Royal" to differentiate between the Terran-born better equipped soldiers of the SLDF and the bulk of the Regular Army. The Star League Defense Force was pretty particular with their Command divisions (for a number of good reasons). So without the fictional explanations for your story changes I could only discuss the Division formations you've posted: i.e. the Royal Divisions you're using as the core of a new HAF.

I realized that after I posted things earlier, KM.   ;D  The best way I can put it is, these are former Royal formations that now have a mix of Royal and normal SLDF equipment.  That have no citizenship restrictions.  And will be losing the Royal title in the change to HAF.  I chose them instead of regular SLDF formations (although there are a good many former regular formations in there as well) to keep their advanced tech gear in service with those who know best how to use it.  But once the units are amalgamated, there won't be any more 'pure' regular or royal units.

MA
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Knightmare

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Re: Need some info!
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2012, 10:22:11 PM »

...to keep their advanced tech gear in service with those who know best how to use it.

Funny you mentioned that. By the 2770s every Great House is pretty familiar with almost all advanced tech shy of the SDS.

Might want to change it to, "...those less likely to defect with their advanced tech."  ;)

The ComStar/WoB McKenna are you referring to Blake's Sword? The jury's still out on that ship. Could be the Big Z, a Wolverine vessel.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 10:24:51 PM by Knightmare »
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Takiro

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Re: Need some info!
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2012, 10:27:13 PM »

There is also age to consider MA. The average age of an SLDF soldier is something I delve into in Fanbook 1 - FM Terran Republic 2785 (take a gander lot of good info in there). Needless to say there are a bunch of veterans who will probably say no mas after the Amaris Coup. I'd offer to resettle families of foreign SLDF volunteers who remain.
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masterarminas

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Re: Need some info!
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2012, 10:27:37 PM »

...to keep their advanced tech gear in service with those who know best how to use it.

Funny you mentioned that. By the 2770s every Great House is pretty familiar with almost all advanced tech shy of the SDS.

Might want to change it to, "...those less likely to defect with their advanced tech."  ;)

The ComStar/WoB McKenna are you referring to Blake's Sword? The jury's still out on that ship. Could be the Big Z, a Wolverine vessel.

It could be.  Or in this AU it might be a McKenna (maybe even the McKenna's Pride?  Hmmmm?) that was too badly crippled to leave on the Exodus but instead (since the former-SLDF isn't leaving) will take years (decades?) to work to restore to a functional condition.

MA
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masterarminas

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Re: Need some info!
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2012, 10:32:09 PM »

There is also age to consider MA. The average age of an SLDF soldier is something I delve into in Fanbook 1 - FM Terran Republic 2785 (take a gander lot of good info in there). Needless to say there are a bunch of veterans who will probably say no mas after the Amaris Coup. I'd offer to resettle families of foreign SLDF volunteers who remain.

Excellent idea.  I was actually thinking of taking a page from ancient times and having Aaron offer land-grants on Hegemony worlds (the ones not irradiated, lol) to former SLDF veterans and their families.  Places like Asta and Northwind and Tall Trees and Zurich; systems that didn't see the use of nuclear, biological, or chemical weapons on their surface (although they still suffered great damage).

MA
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Need some info!
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2012, 12:56:06 PM »

To reply to some former interrogations, I think the units of the SLDF would have make the choice of sticking together if their commanders had decided to stay and "fight".
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Dread Moores

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Re: Need some info!
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2012, 02:37:22 PM »

MA, how are you dealing with the massive leadership and administrative "brain drain" that happened post-Liberation that Kerensky allowed in canon? Specifically, the many deaths of people who worked in any minor capacity as a part of the Amaris regime to keep the trains on time and such. There's some very solid sections on this in JHS: Terra. This factor plays more into the death of the Hegemony (in my opinion) than the SLDF leaving. They had nobody left who knew how to run things.
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masterarminas

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Re: Need some info!
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2012, 02:40:07 PM »

That will be dealt with in story:  suffice it to say (for now), things will be handled differently.  This is all very preliminary work; I won't actually start writing until I finish with my Scorpion Ascendant story.

MA
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Dread Moores

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Re: Need some info!
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2012, 02:40:38 PM »

Excellent idea.  I was actually thinking of taking a page from ancient times and having Aaron offer land-grants on Hegemony worlds (the ones not irradiated, lol) to former SLDF veterans and their families.  Places like Asta and Northwind and Tall Trees and Zurich; systems that didn't see the use of nuclear, biological, or chemical weapons on their surface (although they still suffered great damage).

MA

Age is also a factor to keep in mind, due the medical technology available. Keep in mind that many Terrans didn't even start having a family until 70+. There's many references to Terran (and some general Hegemony citizens) living well into their late 100's (not sure if they make 200). Active military careers can be a great deal longer.
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Takiro

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Re: Need some info!
« Reply #25 on: June 30, 2012, 08:06:27 AM »

MA, how are you dealing with the massive leadership and administrative "brain drain" that happened post-Liberation that Kerensky allowed in canon? Specifically, the many deaths of people who worked in any minor capacity as a part of the Amaris regime to keep the trains on time and such. There's some very solid sections on this in JHS: Terra. This factor plays more into the death of the Hegemony (in my opinion) than the SLDF leaving. They had nobody left who knew how to run things.

Not all of the bureaucrats actually died per say Dread Moores most were still alive. The problem is that they were Amaris supporters and were despised by so many in the post Liberation setting. We (Cray and I) did some hard thinking about this awhile back for canon and Shattered Dawn as well. Collaborators appears in Fanbook 2 - Project Phoenix if your interested in the problems faced.

JHS: Terra is an excellent take on what happened in the canon universe, Deamarisfication. Essentially everyone who had anything to do with the Usurper was fired in spite of the size of their roles (minor or trivial positions) or circumstances (living under the rule of deadly Amaris' fanatics who didn't need much of an excuse to kill you and your family). This along with absence of a central ruling figure (House Cameron) led to the crippling ineffectiveness of the Hegemony government in the post Coup era.
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Gabriel

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Re: Need some info!
« Reply #26 on: June 30, 2012, 12:58:26 PM »

Hi I noticed you did not included the Deneb Light Calvary aka the Rapid Deployment Mixed Armed Forces but that was probablely because not a lot of info is available. They are a Star League Special Forces Command . Their history is contained in the original House Davion handbook and they might be a worthy addition to your list.
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Takiro

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Re: Need some info!
« Reply #27 on: June 30, 2012, 02:02:53 PM »

And if you protect Deneb Kaitos like House Davion guaranteed then you are likely able to earn the loyalty of the 4th Deneb Light Cavalry.

Don't forget also there were other Special Forces perhaps other DLCs as well as other special regiments and battalions (Foul Weather Fiends, Blackhearts, etc) that could be available to Dechavlier.
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