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Author Topic: new warships & fighters?  (Read 11813 times)

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wolfcannon

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new warships & fighters?
« on: August 29, 2010, 04:08:22 PM »

ok i am noticing new warships in StratOps pdf.


Lyran Commonwealth: First Warship: Commonwealth (2375)
Free Worlds League: First Warship: League (2368)
Draconis Combine: First Warship: Narukami (2380)
Federated Suns: First Warship: Defender (2360)
Magistracy of Canopus: First Warship: Athena (2569)


i also came across a listing of first aerospace fighters production.  some have been stated many havent. (S) is for being put in a TRO or some other form of official product.

Lyran Commonwealth: First Aerospace Fighter: Hurrican (2360)
Free Worlds League: First Aerospace Fighter: Eagle (2324)
Draconis Combine: First Aerospace Fighter: Sabre (2314)
Federated Suns: First Aerospace Fighters: Centurion (2430)
Capellan Confederation: First Aerospace Fighter: Firebird (2390)
Magistracy of Canopus: First Aerospace Fighter: Eagle (2564)
Outworlds Alliance: First Aerospace Fighter: Centurion (2557)
Taurian Concordant: First Aerospace Fighter: Lightning (2489) *and the concordant is aerospace deprived?*
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Re: new warships & fighters?
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2010, 04:18:06 PM »

I'm hoping an XTRO will address these and perhaps other warships of the past.

Many of the aerospace fighters came from the 1st AeroTech edition and have been detailed for some time.
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wolfcannon

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Re: new warships & fighters?
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2010, 04:25:05 PM »

hmmm
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Re: new warships & fighters?
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2011, 12:56:00 PM »

Zombie thread revived.

We might also see some of those first generation WarShips in the Reunification War sourcebook. At least, that's what I'm hoping for.
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Re: new warships & fighters?
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2011, 02:10:14 PM »

If those WarShips should appear in the Reunification Sourcebook this could indeed be very interesting.

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Re: new warships & fighters?
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2011, 02:19:33 PM »

Seems like a good idea.
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Re: new warships & fighters?
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2011, 02:20:46 PM »

Like I said, here's hoping. Otherwise it's a real waste.

Still, I don't know if they'll actually show. Most of the intro dates for these ships are well before standard "BattleTechnology" was in use. If they pull a Monsoon and just showcase the last active version of the ship, then fine, but building the original 22nd century tech vessel might prove problematic.

These ships might just get skipped because of it.
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wolfcannon

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Re: new warships & fighters?
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2011, 04:27:36 PM »

we could do what Liam's Ghost did all those moons ago and create our own versions.    if i am remembering right he adjutsted 10 to 20% extra weight to the engine to show it as a early warship. ill recheck what i have saved from his old website that is now defunct.  ok just checked the files i have and he caculated the engine mass doubled the normal to show its early construction.

example:
Code: [Select]
Monsoon

Type: Battleship
Introduction: 2368
In Class: 72

Mass: 900,000
Sail Integrity: 5
Thrust: 2/3
Fuel: 1000 tons
Structural Integrity: 80
Armor: 1440 tons of standard armor (576, 96+8 per facing)

Docking Collars: 4
Fighters: 18
Small Craft: 8
Crew: 720
Lifeboats: 35
Escape Pods: 20
Grav Decks: 3, each under 100 meters
Cargo: 66,518

Bay 1: Fighters (18) 4 doors
Bay 2: Cargo (66,518) 5 doors
Bay 3: Small Craft (8) 2 doors

Weapons:

Fore Left / Fore Right
9 NAC 30s
1 White Shark

Left Broadside / Right Broadside
12 NL 45s
2 White Shark

Aft Left / Aft Right
12 NL 45s
2 White Shark


Designer's notes:
engine mass calculated at twice normal. It's an old ship and all.
Revised and updated. This revision was actually quite neccesary in light of my Winchester. Basically all I really did was up the naval autocannons to 30s, giving the ship a boost of firepower that will allow it to compete with its contemporaries as I envision them (well, I also added fluff text). I was too lazy to list the actual numbers for heatsinks and ammunition when I first made this bugger, and I'm not really interested in trying to figure it out now, however you can assume that there is plenty of both.


Overview:

The Monsoon represented a great many firsts in the Hegemony fleet. It was arguably the Hegemony's first real battleship built from the begining to opperate as part of a massed battlefleet of similar vessels. It was also the first Hegemony vessel fitted with what could be described as a modern compact KF drive, which reduced the mass of the drive by nearly ten percent.

The main arsenal of the Monsoon represents a somewhat drastic change in naval doctrine from the Winchester (which is the closest thing that can be considered its predecessor). Though much of the Winchester's weapon layout was dictated by its original design, it is clearly a ship meant to fight alone. The Winchester's armament is much more dispersed, with really no exposed quarters. No matter which direction another warship attacks the Winchester from, the Winchester will always be able to respond with something. This is not the case with the Monsoon, with two very distinct gaps in its weapon coverage. This was an intentional design element. At the time of the ship's development, Monsoons were envisioned as opperating in mutually supporting battlegroups of six or more battleships. These vessels would form a battleline with Winchester class cruisers covering the fore and aft of the line, presenting essentially a wall of death. This tactical doctrine, harkening back to the good ole days of sail powered warships calmly sailing broadside to broaside and hammering each other to bits, pretty much dictated a pure broaside fighter, and the Monsoon is certainly that. Though unable to project fire directly forward or aft, the Monsoon can deliver a concentration of fire from her broadsided that was, for its day, unprecedented.

The ship's most dubious first, however, is its near exclusive reliance on naval missiles for anti fighter defense. At the time of its introduction, the spiffy new White Shark was a real marvel of technology, a forty ton (when fully fueled) self guided rocket capable of staggering feats of manuevering, such as effectively hitting an aerofighter at mind numbing velocity. These weapons proved their ability to engage targets far beyond the range of more conventional AA defenses, and given the massive size of warships, the huge size of the weapons and their launchers compared to standard guns wasn't considered much of a problem. With these apparent advantages in mind, the Hegemony, and later the SLDF and Great Houses as well, went to naval missiles as the standard form of anti-fighter defense. As many naval historians will tell you, this would evetually turn out to be a BAD decision. Though replacing numerous smaller guns with a relative handful of missile tubes gave ships like the Monsoon increased engagement range against aerofighters, this could only rarely make up for the raw firepower provided by the lighter guns.

Deployment:

Though the Monsoon would hold the title of ultimate weapon for the Hegemony fleet for only a short time (the Farragut claimed the title when it was introduced early on during the Age of War), the ship was still the Hegemony's standard battleship up to the end of the Reunification War. However, by this time the old class was becomming woefully obsolete, with even refitted Winchesters serving in the Taurian fleet during the war proving a near match for her in outright firepower. Though there was some talk of completely replacing the class with the more powerful Farragut during the war (the Star League actually did construct several new Farraguts during that time) in the aftermath of the war, and the peace that followed, many in the Hegemony simply didn't see the need. For the first decade following the conclusion of the Reunification War, the problem of the Monsoon's obscelecence was largely ignored. The Inner Sphere was at peace, right? Who needed a new battleship?

In 2603 this all began to change. The Free Worlds League began launching their first brand new Atreus class battleship in that year, a warship that not only outmatched the aging Monsoon, but also the Farragut. Not wishing to be left behind, the Draconis Combine responded with their even larger Hiei class battleship, helping to spark the battleship race of the early 27th century. Suddenly the Hegemony found itself surrounded by new battleships, and the SLDF found itself sorely outclassed. In an effort to reassert SLDF dominance in battleships (which had so far really been more psychological than anything else), the decision was made to replace the Monsoon in front line duty with the brand new Texas. When fifty-two of these new ships proved insufficient to bring a halt to the battleship race (with the Capellans entering the fray and the Davions taking a good long look at getting in to it), the SLDF got even more drastic. While the First Lord slowed the race down dramatically by imposing the edict of 2650, limiting the size of the house militaries, Blue Nose Clipperships began work on the first new Mckenna class battleship. This was the ultimate expression of the Hegemony's technical capabilities and raw industrial might, over twice the size of the old Monsoon (and, more importantly, larger even than the Davions' unrealized Excalibur project), incorporating the most advanced technology the SLDF could get its hands on, and built in numbers that stagger the imagination. The Mckenna proved to the House Lords that not only could the SLDF match them in battleships, but they could, and WOULD always beat them. Thus the battleship race came to a screeching halt as the Houses focused their resources on more immediately important things.

Of course what did this mean for the poor old Monsoon? By the time the Mckenna had entered construction, the old battleships had already been assigned to reduced duty. Though the battleship race was still ongoing at the time, the actual need for a large fleet of active battleships wasn't really felt all that much. With the Texas and her sisters handling front line duty, the active Monsoons were largely kept in reserve in the Hegemony, with a number already in mothballs. Though some interest was expressed in refitting the class to serve as fast supplements to the battleship fleet (the so called NTU project) that idea never went to far. By 2750, almost the entire class had been retired from Hegemony service (though some of the houses purchased Monsoon class ships from the Hegemony and kept them in opperation right up through the succession wars).

The one exception to this was the SLS Draco. This ship served as the testbed for the NTU project and had been extensively modernized as a result. She continued to serve on until she was reported lost in the Pirate's Haven star cluster during the periphery uprising. Lostech prospectors continue to brave the dangers of the cluster to search for her wreck to this very day.

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Re: new warships & fighters?
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2011, 04:33:08 PM »

It'd be more than just the engine construction. Construction of the structure, weapons, equipment and possibly even K-F Drive...

Still, that's a good effort! +1 for giving it a go.

My fingers are still crossed for RW.
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lrose

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Re: new warships & fighters?
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2011, 09:58:55 AM »

It'd be more than just the engine construction. Construction of the structure, weapons, equipment and possibly even K-F Drive...

Still, that's a good effort! +1 for giving it a go.

My fingers are still crossed for RW.

Actually we did more then just mess with the engines for the ships of the Naval Archive.  Depending on the ship (there was not necessarily any rhyme or reason to what we did) changes included-
larges blocks of mass (representing 5-20% of the ship's mass) being assigned as "prototype equipment" (rather then trying to figure out changes to each subsystem
reducing armor from the standard values to 0.2 or 0.4 points per ton.
increasing the size of the KF drive (to maybe 50% or more)
Increasing the mass of the drives (say using the mass of 5/8 or 4/6 drive with an actual output of only 3/5)
Other changes including messing with weapons so that they had shorter ranges then standard or increasing their heat output.

But the thing to keep in mind is the Dart Cruiser.  That ship was launched in 2305 and shows all the components of a modern ship. (Which ties in nicely with the Dreadnaught being the first "modern" warship because it had the current tech structure, engines and KF cores).  It seems doubtful that the ships were extensively rebuilt (i.e. replacing primative KF drives or thrusters or structure) so we sort of have an introduction date of those technologies for the TH- the houses would have been later. (yes warship tech appears to have developed early and stagnated quickly but that is a discussion for another thread).  Sure weapons and armor may have seen more improvements and are more likely to have been replaced but I don't see them improving that greatly- not so much that you need much more then a 10% "primitive" factor in the design of early warships.
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wolfcannon

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Re: new warships & fighters?
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2011, 10:24:35 AM »

irose i found the archive in the wayback search engine i have the link for it.

http://web.archive.org/web/20090810123919/geocities.com/master_sun2000/NavArchive.html
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Re: new warships & fighters?
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2011, 10:28:37 AM »

It sounds like you spent a great deal of time trying to "get it right." Sounds good.

The Dart always bothered me. Because "modern" warship doesn't mean much. See, the real Dreadnought could be considered the first modern Battleship, but was constructed with materials light years behind those used in modern vessel construction today. "Modern" could just mean the basic principles, layout and function of a design.

That being said, BT's Dreadnought could have been built with some pretty primitive components, but was outfitted with a fusion drive, KF-Drive and Naval Class Weapons, i.e. the basic building blocks of a "Modern" WarShip. Older military "black water" vessels could have been more akin to BT's Pocket WarShips rather than interstellar attack vessels. We'll probably never know.

If anything, I chock the construction of the Dart in the TRO to developer laziness. Why provide two full construction rule sets for an old design that has little pertinence to the overall universe outside of some historical scenarios? Seems like a lot of work for little gain. It was probably easier to provide construction of the WarShip using the standard construction materials.

For our purposes, the Dart is great since it cuts out quite a bit of leg work necessary to actually figure out what pre-BattleTechnology WarShips may have actually looked like. I just don't enjoy TPTB cutting corners in the name of expediency.   
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Re: new warships & fighters?
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2011, 12:52:35 PM »

i would for one like to see the rules for creating a warship for the early years.   it couldnt be too hard, heck even the taurians and canopians were building em.
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Re: new warships & fighters?
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2011, 02:03:10 PM »

i would for one like to see the rules for creating a warship for the early years.   it couldnt be too hard, heck even the taurians and canopians were building em.

Well the rules for building early or later era WarShips has been firmly established, so build to your heart's content. If you want your design to be canon-like consult introduction dates. Outside of using the correct construction rules and slapping a plausible intro date on your design little else is required to create a solid "canon" WarShip. (You could argue design philosophy, but lets reserve that debate for a later date.  ;)

What I'd like to see - more like icing on a cake to be exact - are construction rules similar to those for prototype/early-BattleTechnology designs. While the rules do cover the construction of BattleMechs, conventional vehicles and Aerospace Fighters, I'd be interested in seeing construction rules for large aerospace units.

 
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Re: new warships & fighters?
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2011, 02:48:30 PM »

What I'd like to see - more like icing on a cake to be exact - are construction rules similar to those for prototype/early-BattleTechnology designs. While the rules do cover the construction of BattleMechs, conventional vehicles and Aerospace Fighters, I'd be interested in seeing construction rules for large aerospace units.

It could be interesting.
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