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Author Topic: Non-Distributed Production  (Read 1901 times)

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Dread Moores

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Non-Distributed Production
« on: June 15, 2012, 04:41:44 PM »

Spawning off the 3rd SW topic, this thought has been occupying my mind this afternoon. First, the two criteria:

1. Early during the 1st SW, the House Lords see that their non-centralized, distributed production setup is having a very serious effect. They begin changing this, building more well-protected facilities in interior worlds, focusing on building a given product on that world entirely. (Note: This could still be multiple companies having a factory to produce various components for each unit, but those facilities are all located on the same world. Or generally they are, anyway.)

2. No Holy Shrouds. (We'll leave the specific fate of ComStar up in the air currently.)

What's the effect on the technological loss and army sizes? How does this affect the needs of interstellar trade and transit, since less is needed to ship components.
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JPArbiter

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Re: Non-Distributed Production
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2012, 04:49:56 PM »

at one point focusing production on interior worlds in megacomplexes would be smart, but it would also present great big targets on those worlds with the mega factories.  Hesperus worked because of how insanely defensible the factory complex is, same thing with LAW on Luthien, Corean and Achernar on New Avalon, and IBU on Irian.

so really these mega complexes exist, and they all produce what we tend to see as workhorse battlemechs for those particular factions.

the technological brain drain of the succession wars was always as much of a cost factor to me as it was knowledge lost.  why build one ER large laser when I can build four standards?  and in a vaccume against at best SLDF tech, such thinking works.  it was only in the face of crazy superior clans that you NEEDED at least SLDF level tech.
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Dread Moores

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Re: Non-Distributed Production
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2012, 04:51:33 PM »

Even Hesperus and LAW do not produce everything on site. They still import components for their designs.
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Knightmare

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Re: Non-Distributed Production
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2012, 04:58:34 PM »

Once the war starts, all bets are off. I have no idea how successful such an endeavor would be, or worth the risks.

While I can probably safely say that a few factories could be dismantled and saved once the fighting begins do they even want to try?

As House Lords are scrabbling to dismantle and rebuild elsewhere (a herculean feat under the best circumstances), the bombs are still falling and the attacks are still coming. All the while the House Lords are voluntarily dismantling their industrial and support infrastructure, and gutting the long term logistic backbone of their nation's war industry - with only the vague promise of success.

Any idea how long it would take to dismantle any entire industry, let alone move it and rebuild it?

It's not as simple as stripping the assembly lines I'm sure. The Successor States did that, and stripped factories bare when they could. Then they plugged the scraps into the gaping holes in their own production lines, or stockpiled the goods until something else broke.

Because their industrial infrastructure was in ruin, the scavenging was a stop gap - it was enough to keep things going, but not improve.

Still, if someone managed to save an entire industry from the predations of all comers, then it could surely survive. It might shrink to non-profit, but definitely survive.     
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Knightmare

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Re: Non-Distributed Production
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2012, 05:17:40 PM »

A working example could use Diverse Optics of Tancredi IV.

Here's the scene:

So the First Succession War starts in earnest, a Prince John Davion frantically moves to protect his high-tech laser industry. He authorizes the complete redistribution of Diverse Optics's operation from Tancredi IV to Numenor - a suitable A+ planet deep within the Federated Suns.

The AFFS then moves the factory, the computer cores, the foundries, the mills, the lens factories, and all of the other component manufacturers, plus Diverse's technicians and engineers to a safe haven. They conduct the operation quickly with extra DropShips and JumpShips, and technicians familiar with the maintenance and use of advanced laser systems.


Pull it off and victory goes to House Davion. The Combine never comes closer to New Avalon than its ill-fated first invasion and Numenor remains a shining beacon of high tech industry. So high tech in fact, that the other Successor States bow to the inevitable. They are simply outmatched by Davion technology after two devastating wars.

However, lose one of the above mentioned components of Diverse Optics and lack a replacement, and Diverse is either building less sophisticated lasers or none at all.

This is basically what happened to most production firms after the first two Succession Wars. Assuming their equipment survived the ravages of time and poor maintenance, and there was a less sophisticated product to fall back on. Not every factory was bombed into a useless husk. Plenty just fell into disuse because there was no other alternative to their original function. Scavenged for parts for use elsewhere was a typical fate for these manufacturing "war orphans".

A good example is the Industrial Mech industry. What survived actual combat was cannibalized to support the remaining war factories.   

Worse still, what if the Combine gets wind of the operation? What if they catch the operation mid-stride? The AFFS could be out Diverse Optics, a load of well trained technicians (technicians pulled from combat commands that could use their skills), and maybe a fleet of irreplaceable JumpShips & DropShips.

That's a lot to risk.

Just something to think about...
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Dread Moores

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Re: Non-Distributed Production
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2012, 06:52:31 PM »

Perhaps the wiser way is to have them see the destruction of the Terran Hegemony during the Liberation and begin centralizing a select few "key" facilities prior to the 1st SW kicking off (Luthien, Hesperus, etc.) It still can lead into the 3rd SW feel, but certain key facilities have managed to weather the storm.
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MadCapellan

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Re: Non-Distributed Production
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2012, 08:43:39 PM »

Key point to keep in mind - Atreus was the only national capital that didn't fall under attack during the Succession Wars, and that was likely because it didn't include any significant military industrial assets.

During the First and Second Succession Wars especially, deepstrike raiding with the intent of eliminating your enemy's production assets was a very real and common phenomenon, and there isn't a whole lot that could be done to stop it.  No nation possesses fleet assets sufficent enough to watch every possible legitimate and pirate jump-point between their border and their capital. 
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Dread Moores

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Re: Non-Distributed Production
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2012, 09:31:51 PM »

Key point to keep in mind - Atreus was the only national capital that didn't fall under attack during the Succession Wars, and that was likely because it didn't include any significant military industrial assets.

That I wasn't aware of. Even more interesting. Thanks, MadCap!
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Dread Moores

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Re: Non-Distributed Production
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2012, 09:37:01 PM »

I'm guessing that deep raiding was more common, since early on, the Houses actually had fleets around (something they didn't in the 3rd and 4th). This must be what set the unspoken rule of later not generally raiding by transit through empty systems (as I'd imagine some of the fleet losses in the 1st and 2nd occurred this way). That's something I hadn't considered regarding the 1st and 2nd, was the idea that these conflicts weren't fought along "fronts" like the later wars.
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Non-Distributed Production
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2012, 03:20:44 AM »

The only example I know of this happened in the USSR during World War II and it was not an easy task to achieve.

And doing it during a war would mean that your front units would have troubles with their transport assets, which is not a good thing.
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Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
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The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

MadCapellan

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Re: Non-Distributed Production
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2012, 09:13:14 AM »

I'm guessing that deep raiding was more common, since early on, the Houses actually had fleets around (something they didn't in the 3rd and 4th). This must be what set the unspoken rule of later not generally raiding by transit through empty systems (as I'd imagine some of the fleet losses in the 1st and 2nd occurred this way). That's something I hadn't considered regarding the 1st and 2nd, was the idea that these conflicts weren't fought along "fronts" like the later wars.

Deep raids still occur, but are infrequent.  With both JumpShips and BattleMechs being significantly harder to come by, even in the Jihad era, risking both traveling through enemy systems through hazardous jump points in order to launch a raid which might cost you all the assets you sent on it isn't worth the risk anymore when the payout is likely a few looted enemy 'Mechs and spare parts.  During the First Succession War, when jumpship assets were plentiful and your goal was simply to nuke enemy production assets, things were significantly different.

The only example I know of this happened in the USSR during World War II and it was not an easy task to achieve.

Ground warfare is completely different than traveling by hyperspace jump.  A JumpShip cannot be detected or intercepted between systems, and unless the JumpShip is foolish or unlucky enough to pop back into reality close-by hostile orbital assets, enemy forces won't be able to attack it before it jumps again.  There's very little that can be done in the Battletech universe to keep a determined enemy from reaching any habitable system.  The problem becomes surviving once you get there and being able to be resupplied once the enemy knows your target.  There's a very good reason national capitals and major industrial worlds are heavily garrisoned despite being three and four jumps into their national interiors.

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Ice Hellion

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Re: Non-Distributed Production
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2012, 11:51:05 AM »

Ground warfare is completely different than traveling by hyperspace jump.  A JumpShip cannot be detected or intercepted between systems, and unless the JumpShip is foolish or unlucky enough to pop back into reality close-by hostile orbital assets, enemy forces won't be able to attack it before it jumps again.  There's very little that can be done in the Battletech universe to keep a determined enemy from reaching any habitable system.  The problem becomes surviving once you get there and being able to be resupplied once the enemy knows your target.  There's a very good reason national capitals and major industrial worlds are heavily garrisoned despite being three and four jumps into their national interiors.

I do agree with you.
I was just pointing out a real example to show how difficult it was even at a small scale.
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5
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