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Author Topic: Project Phoenix 10 years later...  (Read 889 times)

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JPArbiter

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Project Phoenix 10 years later...
« on: August 02, 2013, 01:54:23 PM »
this year is the 10th Anniversary of the Release of Technical Read Out Project Phoenix.  as sort of a commemoration of such a joyous (or devastating) event in our shared hobby's life I wanted to write an article for the Front page.  and I need your help

I want everyone to come out of the wood work and give me what you HATE about the ReSeen in general.  don't break it down by specific mechs, just overall impressions.  at the same time, What do you LIKE about the ReSeen?

this will give me ammunition for the article.
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Knightmare

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Re: Project Phoenix 10 years later...
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2013, 02:58:59 PM »
I like that they're not a solid blocked out silhouette and now actually seen. I don't dislike anything.
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Dragon Cat

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Re: Project Phoenix 10 years later...
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2013, 04:27:46 PM »
Has it really been 10 years??? I hate that I'm that much older!!
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Gabriel

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Re: Project Phoenix 10 years later...
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2013, 07:33:18 PM »
I like that they have a new look also that new tech was used.
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Epoch Rooster

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Re: Project Phoenix 10 years later...
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2013, 01:09:04 AM »
What I hate about the ReSeen is that they had to do it in the first place. Had FASA gone with all original art from the get go this would not have been necessary. If you look at the original TRO3025 the Unseen comprise only 16 of the 55 'Mechs within. Had FASA spent a few more shekels on original art pieces for The Sixteen they would have saved themselves thousands of dollars in court fees alone and their reputation would have remained intact.

BTW, I love the ReSeen, they just came out a bit too late. They should have been done within two years of FASA losing their case to HG, if not sooner.
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Dread Moores

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Re: Project Phoenix 10 years later...
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2013, 04:55:22 AM »
This post covered most of it.

The tl;dr version? I'm not a fan of Project Phoenix. I think it was largely unnecessary and a great wasted opportunity to finally step away from lingering past issues and put a new mark on the setting with FanPro's (and later in, TRO'85, CGL's) own mark on replacing those iconic units. Let them serve as a shining example in history of what was spectacular then, but keep moving forward. BT's been plagued by lack of obsolescence, and PP made that problem much worse.
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Lysenko

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Re: Project Phoenix 10 years later...
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2013, 03:03:04 PM »
Alas, Mr. Arbiter, but I cannot help you. I don't hate the Reseen. I like both the Reseen and the Unseen. My old uber-grognardiness prefers to use the Unseens on the table,  but some chasses that I use cross-faction I'll use Reseens. It also depends on the Era I'm playing. Pre-3040, Unseen; Clan Invasion to about 3055ish, a mix; FCCW and forward, Reseen.

That said, the one thing I do dislike about PP is the whole, "these designs disappeared for about 20 years and now are back with a new look" in-unverse spiel they did. I'm at work, so I only have my Unabridged Weapon sheets on a thumb drive, but to RSU 3085 Project Phoenix:

Quote
As explained on page 280 of Technical Readout: 3039, from an “in-universe”
perspective, all of those images were “upgraded” in
look and feel to images that could be used (see the Project
Phoenix section of Technical Readout: 3085). Now, however,
many of those images are once again in use. As such, you’ll see
a variety of illustrations for a given BattleMech name, based
upon whether it’s an “old” design, or a “Phoenix upgrade” of an
old design. If a silhouette appears for a specific variant, than
that image still is not in use.

Just sort of silly to me. And, by the way, I want to hear your story about the grognard freaking out about you using a Reseen....Warhammer? Rifleman?...on the table. Those are actually two of the redesigns I like, especially the Rilflman. On the other hand, I still prefer the chunky Unseen Thunderbolt with the huge LL and teh "Death's Head" Ostroc to the Reseen versions. :) It's all a matter of taste, I guess.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2013, 03:04:53 PM by Lysenko »
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JPArbiter

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Re: Project Phoenix 10 years later...
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2013, 03:59:59 PM »
it was a rifleman, and I know I brought that up in a show, though I can not remember which.

this actually pleases me quite a bit and is forcing me to re think the premise of the editorial, thanks guys.
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shwagpo

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Re: Project Phoenix 10 years later...
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2013, 05:37:19 PM »
To be completely honest, I love the fact that PP was made. I also love several of the designs, it's just nostalgia that holds me to the original UnSeens.  The ReSeen themselves are, for the most part, quality work.  There are some exceptions that I do have with the aesthetics, and they are mostly with the lack of the ultra solid, chunky heavy legs we had with the UnSeen, or just the traditional leg design.  I understand they needed changed, and the new sculpts never bothered me all that much.  The one sculpt I had most issue with was the Marauder, and not because it looked bad, I just feel the Marauder lost that predatory feel that transitioned so well to the clan Timberwolf. 

Honestly I didn't care too much for the story of it.  It didn't bother me per se, I just believe the new designs should have come a bit earlier what with the only thing holding the Unseen from being purchased new was art.  They are cherished designs, and with so many important people in the universe using them, it would have made sense that the redesigns come much quicker.  They were just plain popular.  I don't think they could have handled it all that differently in the long run, and don't really know what I would have preferred seeing.  I was just happy to put the designs back on the table after a house fire melted all of my original sculpts.
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Lysenko

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Re: Project Phoenix 10 years later...
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2013, 05:46:31 PM »
Quote from: shwagpo on August 05, 2013, 05:37:19 PM
  The one sculpt I had most issue with was the Marauder, and not because it looked bad, I just feel the Marauder lost that predatory feel that transitioned so well to the clan Timberwolf. 

One thing that works with the Marauder II Reseen that I haven't tried yet with the "regular" Reseen Maruader is to flip the "hip joint" when you assemble the mini. I beleieve it was Siberian Troll who first pointed this out on the CG boards. I did it with my Marauder II and it gives the Reseen that low-angle menacing look again. Here's the link to ST's post: 

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,12991.0.html
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JPArbiter

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Re: Project Phoenix 10 years later...
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2013, 06:23:32 PM »
I did not care much for the Marauder in the first place cause the Marauder has NEVER looked good to me.
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Knightmare

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Re: Project Phoenix 10 years later...
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2013, 10:23:23 PM »
Quote from: JPArbiter on August 05, 2013, 06:23:32 PM
I did not care much for the Marauder in the first place cause the Marauder has NEVER looked good to me.

+1

I know some people would scream "blasphemy," but I never went for it. I really dug ’Mechs like the Shootist.
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shwagpo

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Re: Project Phoenix 10 years later...
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2013, 10:28:36 PM »
Honestly it comes down to "to each their own". I loved the feral look of some of the original UnSeens.  That's not to say that there weren't mechs that spoke to me otherwise though. 
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skiltao

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Re: Project Phoenix 10 years later...
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2013, 11:12:05 PM »
I like TR:Project Phoenix as a book. (It's about as long as the Tactical Handbook, which endears it to me for no particular reason.)

It has a high ratio of art to text (again, like the Tactical Handbook), level of detail is often on par with 3025's art, and the images look fairly well executed. The "variant recognition" chapter isn't my favorite use of space, but it's reminiscent of the camospecs book and field manual color plates, and seems like a reasonable way to fill the book out. Problems with the book's art direction (which generally hold true for later Reseen as well) boil down to three main points:
  • Even the already-humanoid 'Mechs were reproportioned to look more human.
  • Weapons are too bland and uniform.
  • The translation from record sheet to art is too narrow and inflexible.

The writeups are awkward in places, but basically good. I like that they made a reasonable effort to write fluff-tech, even if I disagree at times with their implementation. I very much appreciate them not rewriting history. I *don't* like how the book ascribes (sometimes major) structural changes to superficial differences in armor.

The intro short fiction, "Stalking the Legends," was pretty good, despite the narrator referring to the Reseen as "old school" "legends of old." That moment when he first sees the 'Mechs as Unseens, then blinks and sees them as Reseens, that was great. That's what the TRO was written for.


However, I generally agree with Dread Moores, and extend his complaints to the TR:Upgrades series as whole.
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JPArbiter

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Re: Project Phoenix 10 years later...
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2013, 11:57:55 PM »
Quote from: Knightmare on August 05, 2013, 10:23:23 PM
Quote from: JPArbiter on August 05, 2013, 06:23:32 PM
I did not care much for the Marauder in the first place cause the Marauder has NEVER looked good to me.

+1

I know some people would scream "blasphemy," but I never went for it. I really dug ’Mechs like the Shootist.

JPArbiters rules for designing an awesome mech.

Number 7) if your mech in anyway resembles a walking Sperm, it does not look good.
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BattleTech products aren't Pokemon Cards. You don't have to catch, or collect them all.

WHAT NO ONE EVER TOLD ME THAT!

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