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Author Topic: Re: The Society and each Clan  (Read 9802 times)

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Bradshaw

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Re: The Society and each Clan
« on: July 18, 2018, 07:41:38 PM »

Now i dont know all the ins and outs about the society but does quicksilver help or hinder them?
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Takiro

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Re: Re: The Society and each Clan
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2018, 09:08:52 PM »

Great question!

During the Quicksilver Trials there were several entries that were let us which were a little unorthodox which have drawn some attention. Not to mention some unusual industrial activity as well as some other anomalies. Investigations have been launched by Clan Watch organizations in the aftermath of these suspicious entries and I have a feeling something may just come of that. ;)

Love to hear what you guys think!
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Re: The Society and each Clan
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2018, 04:20:15 PM »

Great question!

During the Quicksilver Trials there were several entries that were let us which were a little unorthodox which have drawn some attention. Not to mention some unusual industrial activity as well as some other anomalies. Investigations have been launched by Clan Watch organizations in the aftermath of these suspicious entries and I have a feeling something may just come of that. ;)

Love to hear what you guys think!

My Armory for the Ice Hellion doesn't hide itself  :P

It is the whole question: put everything together and make Trials or let all the Clans produce what they can/will/...

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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Bradshaw

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Re: Re: The Society and each Clan
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2018, 12:35:29 PM »

Great question!

During the Quicksilver Trials there were several entries that were let us which were a little unorthodox which have drawn some attention. Not to mention some unusual industrial activity as well as some other anomalies. Investigations have been launched by Clan Watch organizations in the aftermath of these suspicious entries and I have a feeling something may just come of that. ;)

Love to hear what you guys think!

Now that I've read up on them a little. My feeling is it would hinder it more than help. It could be further splintered than it already was. Some of the Clans it had a foothold in might be removed after failures of their designs while others might gather more strength.

From the past I found this. https://www.ourbattletech.com/forum/index.php?topic=3079.0

Gut instincts on levels of influence preQuicksilver

Name      Society Influence   Rationale
Blood Spirit      0   Little to no reason to infiltrate
Burrock      6   Canon references to Dark Caste
Cloud Cobra      2   Cloisters cause concerns influence over one or two of them possibly
Coyote         9   HQ only outsiders and untrusted not a part
Diamond Shark      4   Access to many worlds as traders and such makes them a ripe intermediary power
Fire Mandrill      1   Kindraa nothing but headaches
Ghost Bear      2   Family spirit just black sheeps
Goliath Scorpion   0   Little to no reason to infiltrate
Hell's Horses      4   Influence was stronger in past doubt as strong as influence as during Golden Age
Ice Hellion      6   Rash and quick decisions influence them to cut corners in regards to the scientists
Jade Falcon      7   Second strongest base politics rule this clan in to many ways
Nova Cat      3   Mysticism is antitechnology
Smoke Jaguar      0   Way to rigid probably killed off in past rebellion
Snow Raven      5   Machiavellian tendencies makes me think this is a potential hotspot
Star Adder      3   United is their motto very strong relations between castes not as free as some but recognized and appreciated
Steel Viper      0   Canon sources use them as their example of no influence
Wolf         4   An interesting one could be either way. Probably less but could well be more.
         * out of 10
« Last Edit: July 23, 2018, 12:48:26 PM by Bradshaw »
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Bradshaw

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Re: Re: The Society and each Clan
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2018, 02:47:22 PM »

So was reading up on Protomechs as they were just coming out when I quit BT in the past and this line right away made me think of discussions we've had on Smoke Jaguars post Tukayyid.

Quote
In the months after the Battle of Tukayyid, Clan Smoke Jaguar found themselves with a serious problem. Guerrilla raids and uprisings within their Inner Sphere occupation zone had left them stretched to the limit in resources. Smoke Jaguar scientists found that if something wasn't done soon, their Clan worlds would soon be stripped of the ores needed for BattleMech production.

They are so ripe for absorption/annihilation its surprising it so many years after Tukayyid for it to happen.
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Bradshaw

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Re: Re: The Society and each Clan
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2018, 02:48:24 PM »

Might have to rethink Society role in Smoke Jaguars a little.

Quote
ProtoMechs achieved their baptism of fire during the Battle of Huntress, which was also when Smoke Jaguar Khan Lincoln Osis first learned of the program. His outrage at having been uninformed about the secret project was tempered by his Clan's dire needs and the good performance of the ProtoMechs against desperate odds.

Another find showing Jaguars played a larger part than thought of.

Quote
Uncovering the Society
After the Coventry campaign of 3058, Khan Marthe had created a special Trinary of freeborn warriors called the Khan's Irregulars (Clan Jade Falcon). Led by Star Captain Horse Jade Falcon, they were charged with tasks that trueborn warriors would normally balk at. One of these tasks was a mission to Huntress in 3059, to inspect a scientific installation where research was being conducted on Dual Cockpit LAMs. Upon arrival, their DropShip was attacked by Clan Smoke Jaguar Aerospace Fighters, crashing to the surface where the Falcon warriors were captured by forces led by Galaxy Commander Russou Howell. During his captivity, Horse was able to infiltrate the Smoke Jaguars' Mt. Szabo genetic repository, discovering a copy of Aidan Pryde's genetic legacy.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2018, 03:10:21 PM by Bradshaw »
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Takiro

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Re: Re: The Society and each Clan
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2018, 05:42:14 PM »

Now that I've read up on them a little. My feeling is it would hinder it more than help. It could be further splintered than it already was. Some of the Clans it had a foothold in might be removed after failures of their designs while others might gather more strength.

From the past I found this. https://www.ourbattletech.com/forum/index.php?topic=3079.0

Gut instincts on levels of influence pre-Quicksilver

Name      Society Influence   Rationale
Blood Spirit      0   Little to no reason to infiltrate
Burrock      6   Canon references to Dark Caste
Cloud Cobra      2   Cloisters cause concerns influence over one or two of them possibly
Coyote         9   HQ only outsiders and untrusted not a part
Diamond Shark      4   Access to many worlds as traders and such makes them a ripe intermediary power
Fire Mandrill      1   Kindraa nothing but headaches
Ghost Bear      2   Family spirit just black sheeps
Goliath Scorpion   0   Little to no reason to infiltrate
Hell's Horses      4   Influence was stronger in past doubt as strong as influence as during Golden Age
Ice Hellion      6   Rash and quick decisions influence them to cut corners in regards to the scientists
Jade Falcon      7   Second strongest base politics rule this clan in to many ways
Nova Cat      3   Mysticism is antitechnology
Smoke Jaguar      0   Way to rigid probably killed off in past rebellion
Snow Raven      5   Machiavellian tendencies makes me think this is a potential hotspot
Star Adder      3   United is their motto very strong relations between castes not as free as some but recognized and appreciated
Steel Viper      0   Canon sources use them as their example of no influence
Wolf         4   An interesting one could be either way. Probably less but could well be more.
         * out of 10


Great post Bradshaw! I'd love to have what everyone else thinks about the infiltration of the Society in each Clan as of 3052.

Cloud Cobra is maybe yes and maybe no to me. Cloisters mean a lack of oversight is possible and the Clan is pretty solid scientifically. Plus they were the ones who controlled 'the Tanite Worlds' which were Dark Caste hotbeds. There maybe significant infiltration here.

I always read into Elias Crichell being such a questionable warrior that he had early links to the Society before almost any other Khan. Maybe not outright links but he let his scientists do whatever they wanted with little oversight. The Falcons rapid reconstruction after the Refusal War with so many unknown sibkos just showing up leads me to think of an alliance of sorts.

Smoke Jaguar is just so damn brutal I doubt much of the Society would be present there.

Also please look at this excellent exchange JPArbiter and I had regarding the Society here;

https://www.ourbattletech.com/forum/index.php?topic=2831.msg38287#msg38287

I am gonna look up my notes on this in a bit but please go to the original topic for more thoughts on this.

https://www.ourbattletech.com/forum/index.php?topic=3079.0
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Bradshaw

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Re: Re: The Society and each Clan
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2018, 11:17:22 PM »

I really think Smoke Jaguar was a much bigger player than you may think.

In my readings I even the Watchdog system was developed by the Jaguars in a few years even though they were bleeding resources for those 5 years they still came out with that along with protomechs and the Jaguar leader at the end being one.
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Takiro

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Re: Re: The Society and each Clan
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2018, 06:28:03 AM »

I really think Smoke Jaguar was a much bigger player than you may think.

In my readings I even the Watchdog system was developed by the Jaguars in a few years even though they were bleeding resources for those 5 years they still came out with that along with protomechs and the Jaguar leader at the end being one.

Oh I hear you bud, the novel Freebirth discloses that at Mt. Szabo (the Jaguars chief genetic repository) one of our favorite characters Horse goes crazy after seeing the genetic legacy of Aidan Pryde. The Clan never won this heritage in combat and yet they possessed it. The Keeper of the Jaguar Kin or their Chief Geneticist is killed in his resulting rage but still it exists.

Yet it is stated that the Society didn't thrive or do well (aka wasn't that large) in the Smoke Jaguar Clan because of their overbearing warriors. The incident above though is part of obvious collusion so one has to wonder if that is an example of low Society influence how many other Clans have infiltrations.

Me I especially wonder about Wolf. They are a leading Clan with liberal views so the Society could be present. They could thrive there yet I see little canon example of them. Could it be that the Clan's guardianship over the Kerensky bloodname is so strict that it interfered with Society's growth? Or their mixed sibko classes which has all manner of cadets from every phenotype deterred research there?
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Bradshaw

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Re: The Society and each Clan
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2018, 09:34:35 AM »

I don't think Cloud Cobra would have been influenced by the Dark Caste/Society on Tanis, yes those planets were neck deep in intrigue but it wasn't members of the Clan that were part of it, it was the people of the worlds themselves that were semi-independent after the deal made with them. The hatred for the natives and Cloud Cobra would have made it hard for any of the locals to partake. There may have been some sympathizers in Cloud Cobra but I don't believe many.
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Re: The Society and each Clan
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2018, 04:13:18 PM »

Great post Bradshaw! I'd love to have what everyone else thinks about the infiltration of the Society in each Clan as of 3052.

Why would it change from canon?
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Takiro

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Re: Re: The Society and each Clan
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2018, 05:56:13 AM »

Why would it change from canon?

Cause it is an alternate universe and it was during the Quicksilver Trials where some strange designs began to appear that folks began to take notice. The developing Watches of the Clans are investigating these anomalies which may reveal the Society to all or maybe not. Here I was asking what was the level of infiltration in each Clan as of 3052 or a bit later to determine near future events. 
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Bradshaw

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Re: The Society and each Clan
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2018, 08:09:56 AM »

Maybe you're right about Cloud Cobra

Quote
In the middle of the thirtieth century the pressure that had been building since Operation Klondike finally erupted. A Trinary of Burrock warriors and over a thousand civilians deserted their Clan to join the Dark Caste. Ordered by the Grand Council to destroy these renegades, a joint Burrock-Cloud Cobra task force spent the next two years hunting them down. Upon the mission's conclusion, Burrock Khan Tabari Danforth declared the renegades to have been exterminated. It would be over a century before his lie was exposed.

Cloud Cobra must have helped corroborate the story Khan Danforth says to the Grand Council.

Things I take from this unintendedly from this.

Two years to capture a Trinary? You would think other Clans would have laughed at them for incompetence after a month or so
Is a thousand people really that much? I know Homeworlds isn't very populated but would think thats just a drop in the bucket to their overall population. Why would Burrock have gone to the Grand Council over this? Wouldn't think this was the craziest thing. Especially its mentioned that a few of the larger bandit groups actually have WARSHIPS for Christ sake even badly damaged as mentioned thats a huge threat to any clan holding and why weren't they hunted down with as much zeal.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2018, 08:42:06 AM by Bradshaw »
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Bradshaw

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Re: The Society and each Clan
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2018, 02:13:21 PM »

Was looking if anything used Artillery for the Clans besides the Naga and I found this throw away line.

Quote
By end of 3085, the Naga would cease being produced in Clan Space. Not a popular design among remaining Clan Space based Clans, its production facilities would repurposed to produced the Septicemia OmniMech.

Now I thought the Naga was made by Wolf (as it said this in its description) but really it was Coyote and also Star Adder shockingly

Quote
Kerensky Memorial Manufacturing is a production facility on the Clan homeworld planet Strana Mechty in the Kerensky Cluster. Originally it was the production site for the Woodsman OmniMech, but later The Society took control of the plant and used it to build their OmniMechs. The factory is apparently located in a nearly forgotten corner of Clan Coyote's holdings, and this allowed the factory to remain undisturbed and unnoticed until the Society was ready.
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Takiro

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Re: The Society and each Clan
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2018, 04:16:29 PM »

Well the Cloud Cobras are a very political Clan rivaling Snow Raven for their intrigue. With their science being a big plus it would make it an attractive place for the Society.

There are Dark Caste connections through the Burrock incident and Tanis but is that one in the same with the Society? I would say no as the Society often used the Bandits to act as their muscle when needed but they were hardly a part of the group.

Don't forget the disgraced ilKhan Tobias Khatib of the Cloud Cobras too, that is another black mark on the Cobras.

But it doesn't prove that they are infiltrated by the Society. Perhaps the Cloisters made it too difficult for them to spread here? Or the fact Coyote who is a blood rival is also perhaps the friendliest with the Society may have halted infiltration?
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