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Listen up Jarheads!
« on: April 24, 2009, 09:49:44 PM »
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Alright you pucks this is what I want to know. Just what exactly would you Devil Dogs name the marine units of the Great Houses if you could?
Grin
I was wandering over on CBT when I stumbled upon the Rikusentai. Literally the Special Naval Landing Force used by Imperial Japan in WW2 and I though what an excellent name for a Draconis Marine Force with Mech of course.
I always wondered why the BattleTech universe never seized on the marine theme for units. The only exception is the Terrans of course which might be the reason. The Alliance Colonial Marines were the arm of the evil Terrans during the Outer Reaches Rebellion and no doubt many of the new Great Houses despised the Marine Corps. The Colonial Marines were of course succeeded by the Hegemony CAAN Regiments and in BTSD the Terran Republic has the Royal Marines (drawing on the British tradition).
Well what do you think?
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Re: Listen up Jarheads!
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2009, 10:05:50 PM »
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Hmm...who would fit the name "Helljumper?"
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Re: Listen up Jarheads!
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2009, 10:18:04 PM »
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The Helljumpers would be an excellent nickname.
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Re: Listen up Jarheads!
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2009, 08:08:44 AM »
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The TC is said to have Marines during the RW but they never were given a specific name. In 3025 the TC has the Special Asteroid Support Force.
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Re: Listen up Jarheads!
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2009, 08:28:23 AM »
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As Takiro has already mentioned the term "Marines" might be too connected with the Terran Alliance Colonial Marines so perhaps therefore it was a name that was shunned.
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Re: Listen up Jarheads!
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2009, 08:41:55 AM »
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I was just reading the wiki entry on this subject and thought most BattleTech Line Units fit into the "Space Marine" outline.
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Space marines are fictional soldiers that operate in outer space. Space marines are common in military science fiction-themed action movies and action games. Historical marines fulfill amphibious roles: ship defence, landing parties, and general high-mobility deployments. By extension, space marines defend spaceships, land on planets and satellites, and deployments that require rapid deployment throughout space.
I mean rapid deployment through space and landing on planets is the definition of a Line Unit in BattleTech. I had envisioned the Royal Marines as specialists operating in exotic enviroments including underwater, extreme gravity (from Zero-G to the Highest G), space combat, etc. Basically anywhere you would die if you didn't know or weren't normally equipped to operate. Thoughts?
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Re: Listen up Jarheads!
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2009, 09:10:07 AM »
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So basically you want a whole bunch of clone troopers, right? Wink
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Re: Listen up Jarheads!
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2009, 09:14:54 AM »
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No not at all. Leave your Warhammer at the door thank you. Many may think they are superheroes and probably can't grasp how a Marine does it. Others think they are crazy and perhaps they are but a Marine is human through and through.
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Re: Listen up Jarheads!
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2009, 09:46:36 AM »
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Well, the Helljumpers are originally from Halo. They are probably criminally insane, 'cause they're ODSTs- Orbital Drop Shock Troops. It takes a very specific kind of crazy to drop into a planet's atmosphere in something no bigger than a port-o-pottie. From orbit.
But anywho, who would fit the name?
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Dear Humanity,
We regret bein' alien bastards. We regret comin' to Earth. And we most definitely regret that the Corps just blew up our raggedy-ass fleet! -Sgt. A.J. Johnson
They're farmers. You're elite troops. With the gloves off, this would have taken you no time at all. -Jedi General Etain Tur-Mukan
Burnin' to burn 'em, ma'am! -Confederate Firebat PFC Fetu "Cutter" Koura-Abi
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Re: Listen up Jarheads!
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2009, 10:23:34 AM »
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Rather than go for the Marines, I would go for the paratroopers and gliders units (or for Starship Troopers (the book not the movie)).
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In Turn they tested each Clan namesake in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle. Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down. All failed to match the predator's speed and grace. Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."
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Re: Listen up Jarheads!
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2009, 04:18:45 PM »
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Well give me some names there Ice. Would you go ParaMech Regiment?
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Re: Listen up Jarheads!
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2009, 07:09:39 PM »
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Quote from: scourge72 on April 25, 2009, 09:46:36 AM
Well, the Helljumpers are originally from Halo. They are probably criminally insane, 'cause they're ODSTs- Orbital Drop Shock Troops. It takes a very specific kind of crazy to drop into a planet's atmosphere in something no bigger than a port-o-pottie. From orbit.
But anywho, who would fit the name?
Like dropping from orbit in a 'Mech is sane? Grin
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Re: Listen up Jarheads!
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2009, 07:15:50 PM »
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In a 'Mech, you have ample protection. The Helljumpers get to fall with only a few inches of armor to protect them from burning up during reentry. I'd say being a Helljumper is crazier than a MechWarrior doing the same thing in a 'Mech.
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Dear Humanity,
We regret bein' alien bastards. We regret comin' to Earth. And we most definitely regret that the Corps just blew up our raggedy-ass fleet! -Sgt. A.J. Johnson
They're farmers. You're elite troops. With the gloves off, this would have taken you no time at all. -Jedi General Etain Tur-Mukan
Burnin' to burn 'em, ma'am! -Confederate Firebat PFC Fetu "Cutter" Koura-Abi
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Re: Listen up Jarheads!
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2009, 01:53:09 AM »
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Aye well to butcher a quote I read once everything is droppable from orbit once. The name is a great one for a unit known for it's orbital drops.
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Re: Listen up Jarheads!
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2009, 09:31:19 AM »
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'Tis.
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Re: Listen up Jarheads!
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2009, 12:05:26 PM »
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Schnellbatallione for Steiner?
Hǎijūn Lùzhà ndùi for Liao (Marine Corps in Chinese)?
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In Turn they tested each Clan namesake in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle. Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down. All failed to match the predator's speed and grace. Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."
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Re: Listen up Jarheads!
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2009, 04:40:40 PM »
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The Royal Marines are know as Bootnecks or Booties locally.
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Re: Listen up Jarheads!
« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2009, 05:05:38 PM »
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I'm still partial to the Helljumpers.
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Dear Humanity,
We regret bein' alien bastards. We regret comin' to Earth. And we most definitely regret that the Corps just blew up our raggedy-ass fleet! -Sgt. A.J. Johnson
They're farmers. You're elite troops. With the gloves off, this would have taken you no time at all. -Jedi General Etain Tur-Mukan
Burnin' to burn 'em, ma'am! -Confederate Firebat PFC Fetu "Cutter" Koura-Abi
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Re: Listen up Jarheads!
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2009, 05:11:37 PM »
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A tad late I know, but I have been using F.S. Marine Force. There primary jobs are Guarding Fleet Bases, Deploying abord ships to work alonside there spacer cousins in Borarding and Counter-Boarding, fancy parde functions, and acting as embasy guards
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Re: Listen up Jarheads!
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2009, 06:40:16 PM »
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Hey Fleet, good hearing from you again. My original intent for this thread was to create your own Marine Line Force for your favorite House like the Star League CAAN Regiments or the Royal Marines of the Terran Republic. Any suggestions for the Davies, I know they are your favorite. Wink
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Re: Listen up Jarheads!
« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2009, 12:59:55 PM »
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Hi!
Sorry, but I just found this post.
For Steiner, I would think it would be either "Kreigsmarine Infantrie" (traditional German name for Marines), or the "San Marco Division" (that's the current Italian equivalent)...of course, there's also the "Imperial and Royal Austro-Hungarian Marine Corps", but I'm biased... Wink
For the FWL, I'm going to shamelessly push my own "Marik Militia Marine Corps", or "M3C". Grin
The Suns, given the history with the Alliance Colonial Marines, would probably not have a specific "Marine" formation, but would have something like the "Space Security Force".
One of the important things to consider is, what is this corps supposed to do? Conventional mech units are already akin to parachute and glider troops, so are these Marines just boarding/anti-boarding troops? What do they do that mechs and commando's do not? (Understand that with 6 years in the USMC, I simply cannot imagine a national military without some form of "Marine" unit, but it's a valid question that has been posed in the past.)
I'll answer my own post in a little while, as I get to drive through the slush to get the wife....
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Re: Listen up Jarheads!
« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2009, 03:00:52 PM »
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Thanks for the suggestions Hammer. Basically what I'm looking for with these Marine units are Mech equipped line forces who are not only experts in atmospheric insertions (i.e. hot drops) but more specifically combat specialists in all sorts of exotic environments. You'll notice that many inhabited worlds in the BattleTech universe are Terran in nature hence most military groups don't have regular training or experience in irregular climates or gravities. From lifeless moons with low gravity to large worlds with high gravity or say a toxic atmosphere or a water world. Sure these Marines can hot drop with great precision (that skill alone I'd call a Ranger unit) or fight in a normal environment like any other BT Line Unit but they thrive in toxic soup where regular soldiers and humans don't go regularly.
That was the idea I had behind the Terran Royal Marines who are just a part of the Republic's Marine Subcommand which is part of the Royal Navy. You also have the Marine Guard which is a much larger non-Mech formation tasked with space security (ships, stations, and foreign installations) as well as other duties I can't think of right now.
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Re: Listen up Jarheads!
« Reply #22 on: December 25, 2009, 12:08:41 AM »
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Takiro,
So, essentially, the "marine" mission has morphed beyond the hot drop - which any mech unit worth its salt should be able to do - into what amounts to hazardous-environment combat: poisonous/noxious atmospheres (like Sirius [re: GDL:"Price of Glory"]), zero-g environments (Phelan Kell's capture in "Lethal Heritage"), and all/mostly-water environments (an underwater assault on a FedSuns command center by Combine mechs, from TRO3025, IIRC).
Cool.
What does this means for naming units, though? Not much. Generally, most Marine forces (at least as of the 19th and 20th Centuries) don't generally adopt nicknames, but if they do it's usually something on the order of "The Fighting Fifth" or "The Old Guard"...but this is generally discouraged: Marines are Marines - differentiation between units breeds elitism in an already-elite formation, and so has been continuously struggled against.
In essence, most Marine units I am familiar with (both US and non-US) prefer to let their battalion/regimental numbers do their talking. Let me give you an example.
In the USMC, the 5th Marine Regiment is regarded as the closest thing to an elite unit in the Marine Corps, outshining Recon/Force Recon/ANGLICO internally by far, because they are the only unit authorized to modify their Dress Blues: the 5th is one of only two units in the Marine Corps (the other is the 6th) authorized to wear the French fourragere, which was awarded to both by the French Government for the Battle of Belleau Wood, in WW1.
That's it -- to date, no other unit in the Marine Corps is allowed to modify their uniform...Most other similar units in the word operate the same way.
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Re: Listen up Jarheads!
« Reply #23 on: December 25, 2009, 10:56:59 PM »
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You are quite right at least in the canon BattleTech universe. Frequently names or classifications have no meaning beyond the fact they sound cool I guess. Don't get me started on Battlecruisers. I'm trying to change that with Shattered Dawn hence the specific hazardous environmental duties for the Marines detailed in this thread. To me that is why Kreigsmarine Infantrie (essentially meaning War Navy Infantry if I get my German right) doesn't fit for a Steiner Mech force.
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Re: Listen up Jarheads!
« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2009, 01:31:26 AM »
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Well, while that's technically true, it is also true that "Marine" as a function now pretty much means "I go to fight somewhere via ship almost always" - as opposed to only occasionally. That, and we neither fight from the mast tops and rigging, don't man main guns aboard ship, and don't generally lead/participate in boarding actions anymore.
Units tend to retain ancient names in order to have a shared history, so that the people in the unit have something to aspire to.
"Marines" are generally considered to be a cut above most other infantry for the simple fact that, where conventional infantry and paratroopers hope to surprise the enemy, armor tries to steamroller the enemy and spec-ops never intend for the enemy to see them (unless they will be the last thing they see), Marines pretty much learn to accept the fact that our job is to go in where the enemy knows where we're coming, and how to defend against where we're coming in from...
We're armor without the armor - but we know it, and accept it.
That's why everyone is scared of us.
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Re: Listen up Jarheads!
« Reply #25 on: December 26, 2009, 08:36:50 AM »
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Quote from: Hammer6R on December 26, 2009, 01:31:26 AM
Well, while that's technically true, it is also true that "Marine" as a function now pretty much means "I go to fight somewhere via ship almost always" - as opposed to only occasionally. That, and we neither fight from the mast tops and rigging, don't man main guns aboard ship, and don't generally lead/participate in boarding actions anymore.
Units tend to retain ancient names in order to have a shared history, so that the people in the unit have something to aspire to.
"Marines" are generally considered to be a cut above most other infantry for the simple fact that, where conventional infantry and paratroopers hope to surprise the enemy, armor tries to steamroller the enemy and spec-ops never intend for the enemy to see them (unless they will be the last thing they see), Marines pretty much learn to accept the fact that our job is to go in where the enemy knows where we're coming, and how to defend against where we're coming in from...
We're armor without the armor - but we know it, and accept it.
That's why everyone is scared of us.
Yeah Marines here have become warriors who fight on space ships so I wouldn't be surprised to see them on the hull of an enemy or a friendly warship either. But they go anywhere those vessels take them and are to fight basically.
The only thing I will add to your excellent assessment of Marines is your all crazy. Grin But I'm sure glad to have you on my side. Wink
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« Reply #26 on: December 26, 2009, 05:04:20 PM »
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Grin
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Re: Listen up Jarheads!
« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2010, 04:36:10 PM »
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It is Kriegsmarine but I am not sure you would put Infantrie in the name as Germans use names like Riflemen, Grenadiers, Hunters...
But why are we going for the Marine side?
Why not for the Ranger/light "infantry" traditions?
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Re: Listen up Jarheads!
« Reply #28 on: January 26, 2010, 11:07:32 PM »
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Grettings Tuefellhunden! Figured being a jarhead and all, this would be a good place to make my first post on the new boards Grin.
Given the Marines are the inexcorably tied to the navy (in BT's case, the "dry" or "black" navy), the sterotypical Marine in the BT universe would be a specialist in shipboard combat operations, much more akin to Age of Sail Marines than modern, 20th century leathernecks, especially in eras where warships are decently common. This train of thought would also lend itself to Marines being a type "landing force" however, and much more like modern Marines, these troops would be "tip of the spear", a quick reaction or strike force not meant to necessarily hold territory for the long term, but to rather take it to the enemy in a fashion they would not soon forget. They would likely be assigned to a warship combat group rather than any particular planet (although a "home" planet would certainly be reasonable, they would probably not be counted as part of the assigned garrison). Mobile heavy mechs such as the Flashman or Falconer and high end medium mechs with decent firepower such as the Wolverine or Griffin would probably be typical, with low end medium scouts like the PHawk serving as recon elements. I don't think specializing in unusual terrain/environments as a whole would be necessary, although particular individual units could be assigned them as a specialty.
In summary, Marines in Battletech would probably be a blend of traditional Marines and modern Marines. With the return of warships and traditional naval warfare (in space!) comes the return of ship-board duties, but they would retain the more modern aspect of "first to fight" as well. The end result is a highly trained group of men and women capable of operating in multiple environments and charged with kicking in the teeth of anyone dumb enough to get in the way. Sounds about right to me Tongue.
Finally, as far as naming goes, Hammer6R is right in that Marine units tend not to have nicknames that are known service-wide. The general exception is the air wing, but that's because flyboys are always on their own program anyway Cheesy...
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Re: Listen up Jarheads!
« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2010, 11:20:11 PM »
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Welcome aboard MajorTom - I had thought you posted by now - better late then never though. Wink
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« Reply #30 on: January 27, 2010, 05:55:14 PM »
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Welcome MajorTom.
