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Author Topic: Size of a Lance  (Read 4397 times)

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Ice Hellion

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Size of a Lance
« on: June 26, 2012, 05:26:25 PM »

I know a full Aero Lance is 4 'Mechs, 2 Aerospace Fighters strong, which means 4 'MechWarriors and 2 Aerospace Pilots.

But how many mechanics are needed to keep them running?
Does a Lance have a Security Detachment or anything else?

And furthermore, how do they travel? I read the description of the Leopard Dropship and it said that there was no room in it with only tiny little rooms.
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Rainbow 6

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Re: Size of a Lance
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2012, 05:28:24 PM »

Well in Decision at Thunder Rift, Carlyle's Commandos are a Mech Lance along with their support force (no aerospace) but its probably a good place to look.
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Dread Moores

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Re: Size of a Lance
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2012, 05:40:36 PM »

In universe answer? Most forces on offensive operations of any significant duration likely need to bring along additional DropShips to deal with support staff. This does pose some interesting questions, considering the paucity of DropShips and naval assets in general. Monarchs are great choices for personnel transport, considering they are one of the very few (if not the only) DropShip configured for actual passenger transport. In theory, any ship with a decent sized cargo bay can convert it into passenger transport, but I'm not exactly sure how simple that is. (They really, really needed to just create Omnibays, at least for cargo/passengers, especially considering how much of a canon DropShip is empty space.)

Out of universe answer? It only gets more complicated. The DropShip bays have room for the technician and combat personnel only, not the full technical team of one tech plus six astechs. StratOps also seems to point towards the fact that many forces simply higher astechs locally (which seems like a potentially massive security leak for forces conquering a planet). This is further complicated by the fact that it seems Total Warfare wanted to avoid retconning exactly what the various bays carry, even while they expanded what technical teams were in StratOps. It's not a design decision I thought was particularly wise.

With the return of smaller raids in the current material, versus larger planetary conquests, I'm hoping that we see the ranks of DropShips filled out. Unfortunately, knowing the reality that the CGL and freelancer personnel are faced with in terms of creating accurate recordsheets and TROs in anything resembling a timely fashion for any non-Mech units (due to a whole lot of issues, not the least of which is lack of up to date software)...I'm not holding onto that hope too tightly.
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Cestusrex

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Re: Size of a Lance
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2012, 06:19:13 PM »

I'd say about 15 cubits.  No wait, wrong lance.  From what I remember the amount of support staff varied greatly from group to group, timeframe to timeframe, and even within the same armed forces.  As DM said, there seems to be no rhyme or reason to the size, outfitting, or qualifications of support staff in BT, and that seems to even include th Clans.  In the first Grey Death novel Carlyle's father's unit seemed to have a huge support staff, while in other novels some small units (like mercs) sometimes had to get by with one tech per mech, had to share a tech, or had no techs at all.
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Dread Moores

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Re: Size of a Lance
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2012, 06:37:55 PM »

As DM said, there seems to be no rhyme or reason to the size, outfitting, or qualifications of support staff in BT, and that seems to even include th Clans.

Size does have qualifications in the current ruleset (1 tech + 6 astechs form a support team in StratOps). That's the only thing really qualified though. Here's hoping IntOps covers that in more detail.
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Dragon Cat

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Re: Size of a Lance
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2012, 08:19:23 PM »

I'd say about 15 cubits.  No wait, wrong lance.  From what I remember the amount of support staff varied greatly from group to group, timeframe to timeframe, and even within the same armed forces.  As DM said, there seems to be no rhyme or reason to the size, outfitting, or qualifications of support staff in BT, and that seems to even include th Clans.  In the first Grey Death novel Carlyle's father's unit seemed to have a huge support staff, while in other novels some small units (like mercs) sometimes had to get by with one tech per mech, had to share a tech, or had no techs at all.

In the first Grey Death book it was mostly local staff that led to a security breach

Not hugely surprised they cut back

I think in universe units leave majority of techs, security and in some cases dependants on one world while they travel to the next to secure their initial beachhead then the droppers go back and collect the rest

Often you read of supply runs to units why not take support staff through on those
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Dread Moores

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Re: Size of a Lance
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2012, 08:57:00 PM »

Often you read of supply runs to units why not take support staff through on those

That's a strong possibility, though it depends how much you want to let the SO rules influence your game setting. A tech without astechs is supremely ineffectual at repairs. Not having many techs for your (potentially) hostile landing means you may very well have units down for repair MUCH longer. And you really don't want to try the old standard of having non-techs repairing 'Mechs. StratOps repair rules are not forgiving. At all.
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Re: Size of a Lance
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2012, 09:24:48 PM »

Then again, the Chaos Campaign Rules and converting WP to SP, etc., means your unit should be able to purchase/find techs in short order. Ultimately tech support comes down to how you've organized your campaign and what rule(s) you're using to run it. They can be as complicated or simple as the players/GM wants.

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Dread Moores

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Re: Size of a Lance
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2012, 09:38:54 PM »

Absolutely. That's why I stick with either Chaos Campaign or Dread's Ye Olde Campaign System (insert shameless plug). ;)

I love what StratOps offers in potential, but I really dislike the implementation.
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Gabriel

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Re: Size of a Lance
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2012, 11:56:29 PM »

For Shame For Shame
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JPArbiter

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Re: Size of a Lance
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2012, 10:21:29 AM »

When Reading techmanual , a Mech Bay, Aerospace Bay, and Infantry bay hold not only everything needed to house the machines and equipment, but also bunks for the crew of those vehicles themselves.

in the case of technicians, usually it is one Chief Tech with two astechs per machine.  assignments of course ore strictly on paper, as the entire technical crew would work on whatever machines need it at the time.

as far as security detachments, that vary's from unit to unit.  Most likely a Leopard Dropship would maneuver as far away as possible or remain in orbit while the air lance stays down on the ground (with fighters ready to be recovered when needed)  if Using something a little more robust like a Hamiclair or Seeker, then one mech and an assigned infantry company may stay behind to guard the ship.
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Dread Moores

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Re: Size of a Lance
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2012, 11:27:22 AM »

in the case of technicians, usually it is one Chief Tech with two astechs per machine.  assignments of course ore strictly on paper, as the entire technical crew would work on whatever machines need it at the time.

I'm guessing you stick with using FM: Mercs rules then? There is a bit more symmetry in that set up, rather than StratOps tech teams of 1+6.
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JPArbiter

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Re: Size of a Lance
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2012, 12:20:38 PM »

I am culling that from a number of sources.  FM Mercs, Battlespae Rule Books, the 2nd Edition RPG book, etc etc etc.
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Size of a Lance
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2012, 02:11:05 PM »

So it is 1+2 for every 'Mech/Fighter and they would be on the 'Mech bay?
And they wouldn't have access to Medics...

If I follow this theory, a Leopard should hold:
- 9 crew members
- 6 warriors
- 18 techs

This would make 33 people in it plus the 4 'Mechs and 2 Aerospace Fighters.
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

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Re: Size of a Lance
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2012, 02:20:54 PM »

When Reading techmanual , a Mech Bay, Aerospace Bay, and Infantry bay hold not only everything needed to house the machines and equipment, but also bunks for the crew of those vehicles themselves.

That would be correct. A 28-man platoon's cargo weight includes coffin-sized sleeping arrangements and equipment storage in a DropShip's Bay(s). A 150 ton ‘Mech Cubicle includes housing for the ‘Mech, the MechWarrior and associated gantries/repair equipment, etc. The tonnage doesn't count towards replacement parts, food or water. Generic DropShips cargo can be allocated for those items.

DropShip Crew (Officers and Crew) are dedicated ship personnel - Gunners, Engineers, Pilots, etc., not unit support staff. Passenger berths can be used to carry support staff, but if unit morale is important I'd suggest giving those over to your combat personnel - not your grease monkeys  ;)

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