OBT Forum

Hmmm...it always struck me that the SLDF didn't do much rebuilding or grown in the post-Coup years. With the Hegemony in complete disarray, the SLDF providing the only law & order/reconstruction and Kerensky shuffling around the Inner Sphere in a desperate bid to maintain the Star League I'm not sure there was a good infusion of new blood. The Coup did more than ruin cities, it killed teachers, destroyed training facilities (hence the Cinnie & Republican facilities in the Periph) and gutted the SLDF's Hegemony-based infrastructure.

I don't know if the SLDF could have handled more than a trickle of new replacements coming in from their Periphery/House Training Centers. If they did, the new personnel would have been spread throughout its entirety to make good on combat losses. Meaning, as far as we know, a good portion of those troops left for the Exodus. I look towards the SLDF's tendency to combine or disband commands after heavy losses rather than rebuild them as an indicator of their replacement situation. They were doing both after the Coup. 

That said, the SLDF troops that stayed behind with ComStar always struck me as possibly being last hurrah types. These troops served in an unimaginably long campaign. Many were soldiers before the Coup and worked the reconstruction efforts in its aftermath. I think their average age was a little on the older side, with most just exhausted from the campaign. When given the choice of either, A.) Blasting off into the great unknown to create a new nation, or B.) Stay behind in the familiar and fighting one last battle - I think Option B just looks easier and requires far less energy.

Seriously, colonization new worlds might have looked like a way more difficult and dangerous occupation. Familiarity can be a powerful draw, especially when the odds of final peace look good. In this case, just snatching Terra would have been enough to secure a war-free future. If Hayes' troops knew the deal (and I'm sure they did), then this mindset isn't a stretch. 

Also, from what I've read, it seemed to me that the soldiers of the Exodus were a little on the old side, and started having children and families a little on the "old" side.  That's just a feeling more than anything else.

From a previous but somewhat relevant post.

The Terran Defense Force which can be found in at least three canon sources (pg 71 of 20 Year Update, pg 85 of ComStar SB, and the Fall of Terra) I contend was the forerunner of the ComGuards. Founded by Jerome Blake in the aftermath of Operation Silver Shield circa 2788 this force had as its mandate to safeguard the security of the Sol system under the auspices of ComStar. Composed of SLDF veterans who were urged by General Kerensky to "pledge their assistance to Blake's reconstruction effort" (pg 13 CSSB) these warriors may have had their loyalty secured by a promise of pay by way of huge parts and equipment caches that ComStar controlled (pg 13 CSSB).

While ComStar believed that seizing Terra for its own good some of these veterans may not have. Driving off the garrison forces left by the House Lords was probably not hard to conceive but beheading what was left of a disfunctional Hegemony might have been too much for some. Heavy fighting in South America between two SLDF Mechanized Divisions who refused to submit to Blake's authority was a good indicator. Many probably agreed that it had to be done or Terra would have been destroyed by a five way battle between rival claimants to the First Lordship but watching the Houses swoop in and crush what resistance remained could have bought out some guilt. Had they helped destroy the Terran nation? Why couldn't they save more worlds or the entire Hegemony?

Unable to go on the offensive in any meaningful way the TDF would gradually be shrunk by ComStar as the threat to Terra receded. Forced demobiliztion of such a force is a hard thing (ComStar didn't have ROM till 2811 and see Kerensky's efforts to disband SLDF on the homeworlds) even though many of its warriors may have been old enough to retire. As an outlet Blake may have let some of them go. Perhaps a few into mercenary service here or there but you probably don't want the Houses acquiring whole units of personnel. So here is my proposal and a way to add on to the Deep Space Cavalry write up I did a while ago (I get the link and post it below).

The Periphery Frontier Force (PFF) was formed by ComStar to maintain pockets of stability in the vast Periphery and helped as a safety valve to reduce the Terran Defense Force. While other ComStar units (at this point they likely retained their SLDF designations) may have taken part in this effort the core force was composed of the 13th Royal French Demi-Brigade (which was one of the Unknown Units listed in the SLSB). This is a way to carry on the legend of the famous Foreign Legion who travels the fringes of the Human Sphere during the Succession War creating strongholds for rebuilding the HPG network, exploring, and hunting pirates. They have to maintain a low profile because they are vastly outnumbered and you don't want too many folks knowing about your journey or your possible home. They'd concentrate on maintaining what they had rather than embark on costly and unsustainable campaigns of expansion.

Over time they might recruit other commands (like their brothers in 3rd French Infantry Regiment or other SLDF commands) who might have tired of the Succession Wars. Maybe they even find what is left of the Star League Deep Space Cavalry which would be the forerunner of the Periphery Frontier Force. While their exact size would vary over time the PFF is a defuse organization spread over immense distances much by design of Blake and later ROM. Whatever their strength individual commands might not be aware of each other or are far to removed to work effectively together. If they did it would have to be a real special event and ComStar would always know. Adventures like trying to find Kerensky, finding evil out on the Rim Worlds, and much much more are easily possible.

The creation of ROM in 2811 is important to the TDF and the PFF which before hand had operated with loose control from Blake and perhaps the First Circuit. As security of ComStar as a whole is their purview Precentor ROM would assume control of both organizations. Beating off the scarce interloper and various ill conceived raids on the Terran system runs its course for the TDF which ROM really never trusts. Eventually it is reduced to a glorified militia instead of a true standing army. The PFF goes in the other direction gradually expanding to support the Orders growing operations in the Periphery. Still the various commands are kept separate and under careful surveillance by ROM.

In 2933 the ComGuards began to form marking a shift in military policy by the Order. Before hand security was left to ROM, the TDF was charged with defense of Terra, and the PFF had its duties in the Periphery. There was no true ComStar military to defend the HPG. That all changed with this act. The TDF (which was by now woefully ill prepared to deal with a real invasion) was absorbed into the Guard eventually assuming its canon position. The PFF was keep hidden by ROM as it had nothing to do with the HPG network and continued to function in much the same way becoming a hidden asset of the Blakists.

I'll go with the most straightforward conclusion on the origins of the TDF; that it was a creation of the post 2933-era reforms that saw the organization of the ComStar Guards and Militia. It had no meaningful links to any old SLDF commands, but more likely was directly descended from the initial five light infantry regiments trained and equipped by order of Primus Hollings York.

Ok, my next part of the reports now starts with...

Part IV: A Distant Hope? Or a Hidden Nightmare?

With the successful conclusion of Operation Silver Shield in 2788, the whereabouts of many SLDF units that did not immediately flee the Inner Sphere with Kerensky or defect to the Great Houses was confirmed, if only for a brief moment. However, the sheer number of missing divisions and regiments from this period means that Silver Shield cannot account for all of them. Even if the ten divisions involved in some form with Silver Shield were directly analogous to former SLDF commands, that still leaves six other divisions and perhaps another half or dozen independent regiments unaccounted for; a significant military force.

And there could have been a significant number of other former SLDF commands to join the ranks of the above. Many "elements", possibly ranging in size from a single battalion to a whole brigade, of divisions disbanded by Kerensky after the end of the liberation of Terra are left accounted from. Some joined House armies, some probably sided with ComStar, but that leaves at least a dozen or more "elements" to join the ranks of the missing. Keep in mind the murky fates of other units from other SLDF commands like the Marine Corps, Special Forces, and Corp of Engineers as well, as they have to be considered as well.

So we have a force that numbers anywhere from 80 to 140 (or more) combat regiments plus supporting elements just floating around somewhere. Did they form into a cohesive group? Or did they scatter off bit by bit? That much is impossible to say. But what we do know is that even centuries later, small elements of the SLDF kept popping back up into the view of the Inner Sphere. Take the case of the Blackhearts, a former SLDF Special Operations Group that managed to stay off the radar for the better part of a century before reappearing during the start of the Third Succession War, piloting a whole regiment's worth of mechs. And is the 242nd Hussars mercenary regiment that is seen wandering the Periphery in the 3050's the descendants of the original Royal 242nd? Very likely. Even the Eridani Light Horse could have ended up like this; they spent several decades out in the Periphery trying to start a farming colony until pirate raids forced them back to the Inner Sphere to become mercs.

So say this "Hidden Army", this "Second Exodus Fleet" traveled out among the stars looking for a new home. What would have happened to them. Here are some theories:

1. They're dead, Jim. Depressing as it is to think about, the fate of many other SLDF units that tried to settle out in the great beyond suggests such a force could have died out for one reason or another. The original Exodus fleet came within a hair's breadth of exterminating itself less than two decades after it left the Inner Sphere, and it had resources on a level this theoretical second group could only dream of. But maybe that was due to a failure of imagination on the part of General Kerensky and his staff. If the Second Exodus had a small but driven group of leaders who set reasonable and attainable goals for the future, then they might not have had the severe social collapse of their brethren. Which leads up to...

2. They're okay, Jim. They set up shop somewhere out there, in a region of the Periphery that no one cares much to explore. Perhaps 200 or 300 light years beyond the Concordat, or in those vague regions out beyond Tortuga. Perhaps the decedents of the Second Exodus like it that way, and have no intention of changing it.

3. They're... no this joke is getting old. To expand on the above point, they might be alive and waiting for their chance to strike back at the Inner Sphere. They found a former Rim Worlds mech factory world or two, or a deep space SL colony like Niops, or on a smaller scale Columbus. With a halfway pleasant world to settle down on, and an industrial infrastructure to build upon, they are busy painstakingly rebuilding the old SLDF back to its 2750 levels and will then use it to beat down the minions of the Third (False) Star League sometime around 3350. Taiw...St. Ives will rejoice. 

4. Somewhat less tongue-in-cheek than above, they managed to bump into a proto or micro-state out in the Deep Periphery, and found themselves a decent new home worth protecting. Or maybe a repressive dictatorship that needed a hardcore thrashing. Anyway, they merge and rebuild with this new state, like the Ghost Bears did with Rasalhague or the Snow Ravens did with the Outworlds Alliance or the Goliath Sc... Boy, a lot of those Clans like merging with other per-existing states don't they? Just throwing that out there.

Merging with another nation of people would present interesting challenges for the Second Exodus, and could go down in any number of ways. Do they successfully impose an elite SLDF-style military on their new comrades, or do they "go native" and adopt the military practices of their new brothers? Did this micro-state have Battlemechs before hand, if even in small quantities, or did the Second Exodus just introduce the "fire stick" to a legion of innocents. Maybe the Star League officers become a new ruling class over the alien masses, like the Greeks in Central Asia in Antiquity, the Norman knights in England, Palestine, or Sicily during the Medieval period, or Babur and his men in India during the 1500's. They introduce Star League culture and technology to a less advanced but productive people, and a new hybrid civilization flourishes from it...

Or they all shovel horse dung to keep the fields alive.

A lot of possibilities here. Any other questions or comments? Thank you so much for following my ramblings, I hope to have something else to needlessly over-analyze and pick apart soon.

Wonder what a "class" was in size post-liberation. If it was something akin to a few hundred individuals that's nowhere near the numbers required to conduct a meaningful repair or expansion of the SLDF.

Just some food for thought:
While this doesn't really answer your question for the post liberation Terran Hegemony an interesting number is given for the post-exodus Pentagon Worlds. In 2792 a class of 427 graduated from the Eden Military Academy, amongst them Andery Kerensky.
(Source: page 149 of Clangünder:Abkehr by Randall Bills)
I am unaware of any other hard numbers given for the SLDF post liberation or the SLDF-in-Exile.

Still an incredibly low number for the total active divisions present in the SLDF pre-Exodus. Thanks Hess!

But they only had about ten divisions left after the scaling down of the military by Kerensky. Anyway, you can't compare the function of the academies of the Pentagon Worlds with the facilities in the Inner Sphere, even post-Coup. Kerensky made his military far more Mech-intensive in his reorganization, to create more bang for the buck. Infantry men and armor crews could be replaced fairly easily compared to mechwarriors, but that did not fit Kerensky's vision. ComStar on the other hand seemed to focus on conventional units as much as mechs, and their units might have recruited a lot of fresh young people between 2784-88. Theoretically, a more far sighted SLDF officer trying to organize a Second Exodus could as well.

 

To add a little bit the capabilities of the SLDF to replace losses during the Coup take a look at the SLSB p. 88 and the volunteer regiments. It specifically mentions Kerensky created boot camps and makeshift military academies- (presumably in the RWR) implying that he lost most of his existing training infrastructure.  Why use a makesift academy if you had access to the Nagelring, Sanglemore and Albion.  It also says between the end of the RWR campaign and the beginning of the campaign to liberate the TH he was able to raise 36 volunteer regiments.  To put in perspective between lost and disbanded units Kerensky lost almost 600 mech regiments- 36 new ones only replaces about 5% of his losses.  And to make it more interesting it does not seem that any other volunteer regiments were raised during the campaign. 

Quote from: Knightmare on May 20, 2012, 02:17:34 PM

Still an incredibly low number for the total active divisions present in the SLDF pre-Exodus. Thanks Hess!

But they only had about ten divisions left after the scaling down of the military by Kerensky.

Hmmm... I am not so sure about the "ten divisions left".

Here is some more food for thought:
Historical Operation Klondike states, on page 18, that after the testing was done in 2788 "half a million combat personnel remained in the SLDF, either in active units or in training groups(for those that were considered young enough and showed enough promise)".

Would a force half a million strong equal just ten divsions ?

Especially if the SLDF-in-Exile on the Pentagon Worlds was "far more Mech-intensive" ?


Ciao
Hessian