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Author Topic: Time Jump  (Read 4639 times)

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Minerva12345

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Re: Time Jump
« Reply #60 on: October 19, 2012, 02:30:26 AM »

Typically in a healthy hobby the latest (new hotness) gets considerable number of votes. First, this is because they are one chosen by newbies who have joined last (and thus it has made them impression). Second is that in well run hobby the latest setting has usually most gear and stuff to make everyone happy. This is not the case here which shows that BattleTech is not attracting newbies and that oldtimers are not satisfied with Dark Ages/Jihad for various reasons. This matches well with the fact that "no single factions books" policy has been implemented due poor sales. Poor sales and low visibility can be matched by various polls and charts about sales on different hobby products - BattleTech is never seen in those. Thus it is showing how BT is well within "tail" of the sales.

People may talk about being interested in something but poll numbers point out that CGL quality and content do not make old fans to make the buy nor it is attracting new customers to boost sales. I put my guess on reasons for old timers being mostly habitual buyers who buy it because their wallets afford it (most BT players are at their prime money earning age) but who are not really enthusiastic about the hobby as large. There is a spark missing and I think that one reason we see 3250 is because it is seen as a way to fire up the existing fanbase (and possibly even attract more).


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Red Pins

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Re: Time Jump
« Reply #61 on: October 19, 2012, 04:50:07 AM »

...Hmmm.  I agree.
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Knightmare

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Re: Time Jump
« Reply #62 on: October 19, 2012, 08:57:14 AM »

That's pretty decent deductive reasoning based on poor evidence.

I'm not arguing your assumption here, just counseling caution. The internet, forums and forum polls make for poor "proof". Statistically speaking internet polls are largely unreliable as a determinant. They can be useful in other ways, but rest assured they almost never stand alone. The same is true of internet chatter. Analysis of fan/forum chatter would indicate certain trends, (the aforementioned single faction books) which according to some of Herb's statements – prove false. Product and setting "success" as discussed here are almost totally determined by sales. It's the one solid piece of evidence developers use as a basis to help make decisions.

However, product sales, coupled with things like polls, forum chatter and other concerns largely help determine direction; setting and product changes – combined with the creative process itself – tend to do the rest. After all, most game developers are creative guys/fans themselves.   

Years ago I worked as a 12 state Independent Retail Account Manager for GW Corp until they moved from Glen Burnie to Memphis, and I can say with full confidence that all internet-based data collected in niche gaming markets is only worth cursory review in comparison to hard numbers. No business, or setting decision is ever made solely on their account.

Sorry Minerva. I like your thought process, but you're grasping at straws here.

That said, IMO, I think you're absolutely spot on with the new 3250 setting. I think the fact that it's a CGL-directed time jump, and a chance for something totally fresh that everyone – from the top down – is excited. It's electric to think that in only a short time the entire line gets a ground-up reboot, while older eras continue to receive product support.

I might be a little biased, and it has been mentioned before, but one of the great strengths of BattleTech as an IP – especially at this point in time – is a player's ability to construct games in different eras and have the product support necessary to do so. Combined with some good old fashioned creativity, any BattleTech player can reconstruct any event in the universe's long history.

Looking at BattleTech as a developed IP, that's pretty damn impressive. Especially when you consider that table top players aren't so fortunate with other IPs.   


       
« Last Edit: October 19, 2012, 09:41:00 AM by Knightmare »
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Dragon Cat

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Re: Time Jump
« Reply #63 on: October 19, 2012, 09:38:33 AM »

Herb, Kit and GhostBear all pretty much said that Knightmare this is their chance to make moves on the BattleTech universe.  They have been steering a ship that has had its course set by FASA, FanPro and WizKids.  They've taken those stories and completed as much of the arcs as possible but at the same time they've opened new lines and stories.

Reaving I think was the first time that Catalyst truly got to throw down the gauntlet and say "this is what we can do" and as Reaving has proven it has had rave reviews all over (I've never seen a post complaining (about the product not the dead factions)

Now stepping over the broken egg shells which have been created in the DA era.  They can step somewhere else and say this is out time period.  We respect the past, and no doubt there will be historicals based in the past again, but this is our story.  Herb is smart enough that he knows if he keeps dropping hints people will enjoy.
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Really, as long as there is an unbroken line of people calling themselves "Clan Nova Cat," it doesn't really matter to me if they're still using Iron Wombs or not. They may be dead as a faction, but as a people they still exist. It's not uncommon in the real world, after all.

Red Pins

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Re: Time Jump
« Reply #64 on: October 20, 2012, 02:32:32 AM »

...I have to agree, DC.  Still - I started playing in the 80's.  Life has changed in the last 30 years.  I used to buy novels, beer, game books - now, I pay for gas and diapers.
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Knightmare

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Re: Time Jump
« Reply #65 on: October 20, 2012, 10:02:33 AM »

...I have to agree, DC.  Still - I started playing in the 80's.  Life has changed in the last 30 years.  I used to buy novels, beer, game books - now, I pay for gas and diapers.

Well, you might get stuck paying for gas for a wee bit longer, but hopefully you'll be stop paying for diapers soon...
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Hessian

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Re: Time Jump
« Reply #66 on: October 20, 2012, 11:24:48 AM »

Herb, Kit and GhostBear all pretty much said that Knightmare this is their chance to make moves on the BattleTech universe.  They have been steering a ship that has had its course set by FASA, FanPro and WizKids.  They've taken those stories and completed as much of the arcs as possible but at the same time they've opened new lines and stories.

Reaving I think was the first time that Catalyst truly got to throw down the gauntlet and say "this is what we can do" and as Reaving has proven it has had rave reviews all over (I've never seen a post complaining (about the product not the dead factions)

Now stepping over the broken egg shells which have been created in the DA era.  They can step somewhere else and say this is out time period.  We respect the past, and no doubt there will be historicals based in the past again, but this is our story.  Herb is smart enough that he knows if he keeps dropping hints people will enjoy.

+1
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Dragon Cat

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Re: Time Jump
« Reply #67 on: October 20, 2012, 02:36:17 PM »

...I have to agree, DC.  Still - I started playing in the 80's.  Life has changed in the last 30 years.  I used to buy novels, beer, game books - now, I pay for gas and diapers.

One thing I'm slightly concerned about...

Reading the Battlechat http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,23997.0.html

It looks like all that has come before will be relegated to second tier/useless.  All those books bought, say bye bye to their uses :(
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My stuff, and my AU timeline follow link and enjoy

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Really, as long as there is an unbroken line of people calling themselves "Clan Nova Cat," it doesn't really matter to me if they're still using Iron Wombs or not. They may be dead as a faction, but as a people they still exist. It's not uncommon in the real world, after all.

Knightmare

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Re: Time Jump
« Reply #68 on: October 21, 2012, 10:52:55 AM »

It looks like all that has come before will be relegated to second tier/useless.  All those books bought, say bye bye to their uses :(

Not really. Just means older tech becomes era specific. (Which should actually enhance tournament play IMO.)

Honestly, there's nothing new with the change. We have era specific tech pieces/construction rules already in place, so a "clean slate" only caps an exceedingly long era of in-universe and out-of-universe BattleTech game development. 

I also doubt the tech will just "poof" and disappear. More likely, it will be treated as something vaguely resembling Introductory Tech – so-called lowtech found exclusively on older machines and in the hands of poorer units/nations.

Try to remember that as a business BattleTech has to constantly evolve its product line. This means advances in story and game pieces. As a consumer there's a certain level of frustration with having to be on the SOTA of anything, albeit the latest smart phone or electronic gadget, but there's a certain satisfaction that comes with having the latest and greatest.

Being an active fan of an active game line is no different.

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Dread Moores

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Re: Time Jump
« Reply #69 on: October 21, 2012, 11:44:59 AM »

Herb's comments about a new pool of core units would be a very welcome thing. The time to pass that torch has been long overdue, and the clean slate mentality of 3250 is the perfect opportunity. Same goes for the old tech. I know many fans don't necessarily like to admit this, but the sheer variety and options in BT tend to make things a bit clunky at the best of times. Some of that same level of variety can be kept, while still getting rid of some of the clunky parts.

Though I'd caution a little bit about the whole level of excitement...2015 isn't exactly around the corner, and that seems to be the year bandied about in recent chats.
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Red Pins

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Re: Time Jump
« Reply #70 on: October 21, 2012, 01:22:31 PM »

Herb's comments about a new pool of core units would be a very welcome thing. The time to pass that torch has been long overdue, and the clean slate mentality of 3250 is the perfect opportunity. Same goes for the old tech. I know many fans don't necessarily like to admit this, but the sheer variety and options in BT tend to make things a bit clunky at the best of times. Some of that same level of variety can be kept, while still getting rid of some of the clunky parts.

Though I'd caution a little bit about the whole level of excitement...2015 isn't exactly around the corner, and that seems to be the year bandied about in recent chats.

Absolutely!  Still, as another poster on the official forum wrote, a lot of it will hang on the ability to make units with CHARACTER.  If they can do it, 3250 will create the same level of excitement and loyalty as 3025.

And I like the 'LowTech' descriptor - not 'Primitive', not 'LosTech' - just better than 'OldTech'.   ;D
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JPArbiter

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Re: Time Jump
« Reply #71 on: October 22, 2012, 04:39:29 PM »

Herb's comments about a new pool of core units would be a very welcome thing. The time to pass that torch has been long overdue, and the clean slate mentality of 3250 is the perfect opportunity. Same goes for the old tech. I know many fans don't necessarily like to admit this, but the sheer variety and options in BT tend to make things a bit clunky at the best of times. Some of that same level of variety can be kept, while still getting rid of some of the clunky parts.

Though I'd caution a little bit about the whole level of excitement...2015 isn't exactly around the corner, and that seems to be the year bandied about in recent chats.

it also rolls in line with something he said at Gencon regarding the streamlining of extant mech chassis to 100 or less.  they wanted to start a new Era where the mechs that are out there define the overall aesthetic of Battletech in some way.

the examples he gave were the Mad Cat's hunched over predatory "Imma get you" look or the Centurion being an image of a machine "Always ready to fight." (not committed examples, just aesthetic ideas he presented.
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Rainbow 6

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Re: Time Jump
« Reply #72 on: October 22, 2012, 05:12:04 PM »

Hopefully the streamlining will involve mechs etc becoming faction specific.
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Dread Moores

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Re: Time Jump
« Reply #73 on: October 22, 2012, 05:28:07 PM »

Hopefully the streamlining will involve mechs etc becoming faction specific.

That's still very much a reality in even modern BT. It never actually went away. The larger issue, in my mind, was the growing pool of "common" designs, whether they be Phoenix or Age of War rebuilds. Even in 3075/3085, there is a strong showing of faction specific designs. It's actually the 55/58 TROs that seem to have the largest amount of "Hey, these 'Mechs went to everybody and their brother, because they were FedCom designs or built by the FWL as part of the Outreach accords!" Perhaps, not coincidentally, I really tend to dislike both of those TROs.
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Ken

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Re: Time Jump
« Reply #74 on: October 22, 2012, 09:16:03 PM »

Because no matter how "loud" the internet gets, sales don't lie.   

They will if there's only one cookie left.

Herb, Kit and GhostBear all pretty much said that Knightmare this is their chance to make moves on the BattleTech universe. 

Don't trust Kit, he lies, unless there is only one cookie left.
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